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IllogicalLogic420

Simple Chroma Balance Rework

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1st ability: Underpowered, even when modded. Misses targets horrendously and only doing damage slowly, not as much as should be. The breath is clearly hitting the enemy, so why isnt it doing constant damage and only damage if you aim at their heads? maybe something is bugged?

2nd ability: 25%-50% duration increase

3rd ability: 50% duration increase

4th ability: allow it to follow you without the augment mod

Passive: the frame does not live up to what it claims to be. The elements should apply to the frames shields, doing small damage to enemies who come into contact, almost like an elemental cloak, or maybe rework ability 2. The elements should also apply to weapons giving them a small boost to elemental damage or adding into a combo.

 

The frame is awesome, but either the description needs to be changed, or the frame needs to live up to its claims. I'd say buff the frame a bit, because it needs it, especially when you dont have the mod to prevent nullfiers, vex armor is rendered useless then boom, youre dead.

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9 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

3rd ability: 50% duration increase

Get Primed Continuity. Theres your 50% Duration increase...

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Chroma is already top-tier meta for Eidolons, Orbs and any other bossing content (assassination sorties). He's completely unparalleled. If anything, Vex Armor needs a nerf.  Just take a look at people doing Orb solos with Chroma with 4 dragon keys equipped. Do you legitimately think Vex Armor needs a buff? 

 

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I'd say buff the frame a bit, because it needs it, especially when you dont have the mod to prevent nullfiers, vex armor is rendered useless then boom, youre dead.

There is no mod to "prevent nullifiers", and nullifiers affect all warframes equally. Why should Vex Armor (one of the best abilities in the entire game) have immunity to that? Just shoot the nullifier's bubble or destroy the drone. 

Chroma already has the strongest weapon buff ability in the whole game (by far) + is one of the tankiest frames to boot. There's a reason all Orb and Eidolon speedruns rely so heavily on a good Chroma. Please inform yourself.

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His 1 is affected by vex armor and does hit like a truck (except armored enemies obviously)

If they were to buff it (e.g. give it beam weapon mechanic) they'd need to change/remove the vex interaction imo.

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21 hours ago, SpadedTail said:

Chroma already has the strongest weapon buff ability in the whole game (by far)

"By far"... not exactly, there are certain caveats though. Limiting it to the term "buff" brings it up a bit as well.

21 hours ago, SpadedTail said:

There's a reason all Orb and Eidolon speedruns rely so heavily on a good Chroma.

Well there is a couple of factors to this; the biggest being he is the most straight forward coupled with the limitations of the encounters themselves for most gameplay tactics.

Vex certainly doesn't need a buff (not without out some mechanical reorganization) but accepting Chroma as is because he is "good" at a couple of pieces of heavily curated content (which he isn't the de facto necessary pick) that don't reflect the majority of the game is ridiculous. He gets away with because he is simple, If DE didn't touch the numbers but took away self-damage affecting Vex gains I could pretty safely say he would be dead in the water for what everyone praises him for. Considering DE has taken some of their time to remove self-damage interactions (from weapons), leaning so heavy on that to operate him should be a huge red flag. In any case Chroma does what any other frame does without powers... he just does it with more damage and that isn't good design.

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On 2019-02-08 at 3:27 PM, SpadedTail said:

Chroma already has the strongest weapon buff ability in the whole game (by far) + is one of the tankiest frames to boot. There's a reason all Orb and Eidolon speedruns rely so heavily on a good Chroma. Please inform yourself.

Huh? When is the last time you used chroma compared to rhino? His buff only stacks additively with the weapon mods while rhino multiplies the overall total damage. Chroma is only used by those ignorant of his change/fix/nerf. 

My lanka does 15,000. Chroma barely increases it to 20,000. While roar triples it to 45,000. Because Fury only increases the base damage(meaning without the mods) while Roar increases all damage. That is why less people even use chroma. Not to mention the Madurai Void Strike is suicidal for chroma’s ability but not for rhino’s. Otherwise chroma would one shot a Hydrolist, which he doesn’t. Cant even one shot a teralist anymore.

So he no longer has the highest damage buff. Rhino does. I’ve done the math and did many tests with these frames. With multiple people to confirm it. Chroma’s Fury is super weak even as high as 900%. While rhino at 206% triples the total damage. 

For example: if you get enough mods to increase the damage by 900%, chroma adds another 900%. Which makes the total 1,800% increase while rhino at 206% roar over triples the 900% increase plus the base damage. Which makes the mod damage bonus 2,700% plus the base damage of the weapon being tripled. So a damage of 100 turns into 1,000 by mods then 1,900 by chroma while it becomes 3,000 by rhino. And the damage can still go much higher with mods, especially rivens. So every mod damage bonus is tripled by roar but not affected at all by Fury.

No modded weapons = chroma better. Fully modded weapons = rhino better. Plus Void Strike = rhino is always better. 

DE should change that. Make the Fury percentage go no higher than maybe 500% but change it to multiplicative instead of additive. That would be a fair balance since it only buffs weapons and requires a bit of a sacrifice. In my opinion anyways. 

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On 2019-02-08 at 4:27 PM, SpadedTail said:

Chroma is already top-tier meta for Eidolons, Orbs and any other bossing content (assassination sorties). He's completely unparalleled. If anything, Vex Armor needs a nerf.  Just take a look at people doing Orb solos with Chroma with 4 dragon keys equipped. Do you legitimately think Vex Armor needs a buff? 

 

There is no mod to "prevent nullifiers", and nullifiers affect all warframes equally. Why should Vex Armor (one of the best abilities in the entire game) have immunity to that? Just shoot the nullifier's bubble or destroy the drone. 

Chroma already has the strongest weapon buff ability in the whole game (by far) + is one of the tankiest frames to boot. There's a reason all Orb and Eidolon speedruns rely so heavily on a good Chroma. Please inform yourself.

Yes, there is, a mod to prevent being affected by a nullifier. I forget what it's called, but if memory serves me well, then it has something to do with "Justice" mods.

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After a lot more consideration, and getting feedback from you all, as well as others elsewhere, I've come to the following conclusion:

Chroma/Chroma Prime could definitely use very slight buffs and/or very slight changes here or there.

I also thought, maybe the ability to pick an individual element per ability, allowing something similar to "slots" on his abilities.

1 element (Heat, Cold, Electricity, Toxin) takes up one slot, each ability has 4 slots.

The frame(s) could start with 1 slot per ability, and increase to 4 as the frame(s) rank(s) up.

Imagine having -radiation- breath, or even that with viral.

Or even a ward that gives off a corrosive aura, while giving a chance, or guaranteed chance to -blast- proc any enemy that idk, maybe comes too close? comes into contact? an enemy that strikes the player with a melee weapon? causing a stagger to the enemy.

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i think his one could handle the beam weapon buff and keep the vex interaction... mostly because of the ramp up.. at the very least it needs to tick more than one or two times a second. as much damage as it can do (i have seen 4-5k), my ignis does 3k at 10x the rate without Chromas buff... so at the least it needs a effective fire rate of 5 and the other beam changes.

i have also seen a good suggestion for his one... giving it a sort of "flying dragon mode" where the wings pop out and you move at a high hovering speed". at the very least this kind of fast airborne flying dragon raining fire/lightning/ice/poison would allow for easy aiming without worrying about the damage cone going in every direction but where you are aiming while doing parkour.. tho of course this would need some damage resistance while airborne as being up like that really does make you a target...

or they could you know, make the direction of the damage beam area based on the camera instead of the current angle of Chromas head.... little QOL at the least :angry:

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as for his 4... i have made the suggestion of having it duplicate the buff auras of chromas 2 and 3... so you can get the buff by standing in the radius of either Chroma or his effigy. this would allow a effigy to act as a buff totem while chroma himself goes off doing w/e.

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beyond that i really want the status chances of his 2 to be 100% (so a shock chroma always stuns or a fire chroma always burns etc).

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Partially agreed, Chroma needs some improvements (but not buffs):

Spectral Scream - it may be powerful (especially with charged Vex Armor), but it's just not fun enough to bother;

Passive - yes, it needs something more, than just 'different colour - different effects' because it looks like he has no passive now (like Mag lel);

Elemental Ward - I just want it not to be a full-body animation, the buffs are cool;

Vex Armor - in its current state it's really good;

Effigy - yeah, just like with Spectral scream, I don't feel motivated enough to use it.

 

Maybe I just don't understand how this game wotks tho.

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i just want to use his 1 and 4 more without wasting my energy in 2 second for 10 damage

 

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On 2019-02-11 at 6:28 AM, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Huh? When is the last time you used chroma compared to rhino? His buff only stacks additively with the weapon mods while rhino multiplies the overall total damage. Chroma is only used by those ignorant of his change/fix/nerf. 

My lanka does 15,000. Chroma barely increases it to 20,000. While roar triples it to 45,000. Because Fury only increases the base damage(meaning without the mods) while Roar increases all damage. That is why less people even use chroma. Not to mention the Madurai Void Strike is suicidal for chroma’s ability but not for rhino’s. Otherwise chroma would one shot a Hydrolist, which he doesn’t. Cant even one shot a teralist anymore.

So he no longer has the highest damage buff. Rhino does. I’ve done the math and did many tests with these frames. With multiple people to confirm it. Chroma’s Fury is super weak even as high as 900%. While rhino at 206% triples the total damage. 

For example: if you get enough mods to increase the damage by 900%, chroma adds another 900%. Which makes the total 1,800% increase while rhino at 206% roar over triples the 900% increase plus the base damage. Which makes the mod damage bonus 2,700% plus the base damage of the weapon being tripled. So a damage of 100 turns into 1,000 by mods then 1,900 by chroma while it becomes 3,000 by rhino. And the damage can still go much higher with mods, especially rivens. So every mod damage bonus is tripled by roar but not affected at all by Fury.

No modded weapons = chroma better. Fully modded weapons = rhino better. Plus Void Strike = rhino is always better. 

DE should change that. Make the Fury percentage go no higher than maybe 500% but change it to multiplicative instead of additive. That would be a fair balance since it only buffs weapons and requires a bit of a sacrifice. In my opinion anyways. 

As someone whos using both chroma and rhino with maxed strentght builds, at the same strenght chroma's weapons deals more damage, provided that you modded the weapon without base damage mods.

If youre modding the weapon with them, then you are not using chroma to its full potential, but a chroma with a weapon modded arround his vex armor mechanics hits by a very wide margin more harder than a maxed damage buff rhino while also being way more durable.

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On 2019-02-11 at 10:28 AM, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Change it to multiplicative instead of additive. That would be a fair balance since it only buffs weapons and requires a bit of a sacrifice. In my opinion anyways. 

This would be a very nice change. Currently I have to build weapons specifically for Vex Armor buff (no serration), and said weapons are kinda poo without Vex Armor buff, at the same time if I'm using Chroma as a support I'm giving a really mediocre buff to all my teammates who use weapons with +damage % mods.

I'd really like for Chroma to be reworked so he can be built into DPS, support or even a build which uses his 1/2. Currently he can be built into DPS, his support build is poo, and his 1/2 are laughable.

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I'd make Vex Armor damage buff multiplicative and I'd nerf it (then again I would tone down all damage buffs in the game, no need to throw tantrums I'm not a dev and I dont care), I'd make it stick to players rather then only work when they are in range and I'd also buff it's range/efficiency and duration a bit.

2 remains unchanged

I'd change his 1 into exalted weapon with base energy corresponding to Chroma energy color, and it uses energy only when Chroma is firing, and here's the interesting one, effigy get's to use said exalted weapon, and it only uses energy when the weapon is fired, so Chroma get's to use a "turret" with a weapon which can actually kill high lvl content.

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On 2019-02-07 at 8:29 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

1st ability: Underpowered, even when modded. Misses targets horrendously and only doing damage slowly, not as much as should be. The breath is clearly hitting the enemy, so why isnt it doing constant damage and only damage if you aim at their heads? maybe something is bugged?

This biggest issue with this ability is that it removes your ability to use weapons for mediocre, inconsistent damage at the cost of energy. The ability quite literally isn't worth it's cost.

On 2019-02-07 at 8:29 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

2nd ability: 25%-50% duration increase

3rd ability: 50% duration increase

Neither one of these abilities has duration issue. I've been running an umbral build for a while that has both of these abilities active for almost a full minute, which is an insane amount of duration. Even if I dropped a mod to up the abilities' effectiveness I'd still be running around 40ish seconds. That's plenty of duration. Vex Armor is fine as is and Elemental Ward needs some adjustments to the Electric and Toxin buffs but that's it.

On 2019-02-07 at 8:29 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

4th ability: allow it to follow you without the augment mod

For Effigy, the drain is tremendous, the damage is negligible at best, it removes half your armor (which is awful for a tank), and the stun is inconsistent. Both Effigy and Spectral Scream are at odds with Vex Armor. If Vex Armor buffs weapon damage, why give him an ability that removes his ability to use weapons? If Vex Armor and Elemental Ward buff his tankiness, then why give him an ability that then nerfs his tankiness.

His kit is at odds with itself so people build him around the two abilities that actually synergize with each other and ignore the other two. Your post doesn't actually address these issues and wouldn't fix anything.

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On 2019-02-12 at 3:34 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Yes, there is, a mod to prevent being affected by a nullifier. I forget what it's called, but if memory serves me well, then it has something to do with "Justice" mods.

The mod you are referring to is Neutralizing Justice but it doesn't make you immune to nullifiers. It's mod specifically for the Miter that gives it a chance to one-shot nullifier bubbles, but no mod exists that gives you immunity to nullifiers.

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12 hours ago, KittySkin said:

As someone whos using both chroma and rhino with maxed strentght builds, at the same strenght chroma's weapons deals more damage, provided that you modded the weapon without base damage mods.

If youre modding the weapon with them, then you are not using chroma to its full potential, but a chroma with a weapon modded arround his vex armor mechanics hits by a very wide margin more harder than a maxed damage buff rhino while also being way more durable.

Yeah I managed to rebuild some weapons to be better for chroma. Like more critical and stat specific mods. But it complicates the builds. These builds are only good for chroma and it causes me forget sometimes when I’m trying to equip thing quick enough before an impatient player decides to start the timer. Also I play with a guy who can’t seem to make up his mind what to equip. And he is the same level as me, MR 26 1/2. So trying to think of his builds plus my builds makes it very complicated. But so far my chroma only does like 1/4 more damage than rhino with rifles, and like 2x with secondaries. And I still can’t use Void Strike. Maybe if his Vex Armor granted a few seconds of invulnerability the moment his fury reaches its peak then it would help a lot. But to make the range capable of buffing teammates requires making him weaker or duration not last as long. And most players these days don’t care about teamwork. My Nidus can currently double any warframe’s abilities. Making rhino multiply by 5.5x or making the Fury reach as high as 2,000%. Wish there were more critical mods. But I haven’t came across a single Nidus with maxed power strength like mine. And I’m currently working on an even more powerful Nidus build. 

With void strike, rhino is now the go to warframe for Eidolon hunts. Just wish Chroma could do more for the team or benefit from some Focus Tree. Like a void ability that can increase the multi shot of gun type weapons. So chroma could still damage himself and be able to damage the eidolons more. 

Chroma is just too complicated right now. And I did manage to get a couple of guys to use him again. Wish he could be more useful. Like if tapping his second ability made his attribute change and it applies like 50% of that attribute to his weapons. Would make him more useful against the Profit Taker. 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Yeah I managed to rebuild some weapons to be better for chroma. Like more critical and stat specific mods. But it complicates the builds. These builds are only good for chroma and it causes me forget sometimes when I’m trying to equip thing quick enough before an impatient player decides to start the timer. Also I play with a guy who can’t seem to make up his mind what to equip. And he is the same level as me, MR 26 1/2. So trying to think of his builds plus my builds makes it very complicated. But so far my chroma only does like 1/4 more damage than rhino with rifles, and like 2x with secondaries. And I still can’t use Void Strike. Maybe if his Vex Armor granted a few seconds of invulnerability the moment his fury reaches its peak then it would help a lot. But to make the range capable of buffing teammates requires making him weaker or duration not last as long. And most players these days don’t care about teamwork. My Nidus can currently double any warframe’s abilities. Making rhino multiply by 5.5x or making the Fury reach as high as 2,000%. Wish there were more critical mods. But I haven’t came across a single Nidus with maxed power strength like mine. And I’m currently working on an even more powerful Nidus build. 

With void strike, rhino is now the go to warframe for Eidolon hunts. Just wish Chroma could do more for the team or benefit from some Focus Tree. Like a void ability that can increase the multi shot of gun type weapons. So chroma could still damage himself and be able to damage the eidolons more. 

Chroma is just too complicated right now. And I did manage to get a couple of guys to use him again. Wish he could be more useful. Like if tapping his second ability made his attribute change and it applies like 50% of that attribute to his weapons. Would make him more useful against the Profit Taker. 

Yeah, chroma its binary, terribly binary. A good thing to remark its that chroma still receive damage, making arcane avenger usable on him (I have 2 R3 sets on my orb/eidolon hunting one). At that point the damage turns to be insanely high, since the 60% additive crit chance cant be beaten by rhinos roar (speakin on a selfish non team reliant scenario).

For me chroma its the best damage dealer, while rhino its the best team player, so I tend to take one or another based on what I expect to do. 

Important remarka are that since I own dual arcane energize R3 on rhino I know that Ill be stomping and roaring all the game, even if my efficiency and duration are not good, so my rhino is, even at its iron skin focused build, a good team player.

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Chroma doesn't need a buff, he doesn't need a nerf, he needs a full blown rework. Just some number tweaks are not enough, he is fundamentally a poorly designed Warframe with no character or unique gameplay.

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I think his 2nd ability should be more than a buff.  How about an offensive ability that knocks enemies back (fire), blinds them (toxin), freezes (ice), or damages enemies (electricity) to make him feel more like a force of nature?  The previous buffs of this ability could be transferred to his 3.  

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