Hildryn: Devstream #123

[Lewtenant]

Locking baruuk behind old mate and then tiers of vox solaris was a mistake that DE can still fix before switch release. Hildryn should not be gated behind all of this mastery/standing grind, partially for her passive.

In early play warframe shields are strong. It's health that regenerates, and redirection is useful through about Jupiter or so. Energy is somewhat hard to acquire. Players open lockers and scavenge for little blue balls all the time. Since Hildryn runs on shields instead of energy, she has the innate ability to cast abilities with a regenerating energy pool that early game players like to mod around.

Being able to cast abilities is fun and new players can't use many abilities until they have hunter adrenaline or energizing dash. Making pads is out of the picture for early game players due to cost, and availability of blueprints.

So now we are getting this warframe with innate energy regeneration (unless they nerf hildryn's shield generation) that's built around early game survivability. If we gate this frame to end game players, she might not be viewed as very powerful, depending on her abilities. However, if we have a warframe that players can build early, a female rhino frame, then it may encourage the use of the frame early game, as long as early game players can farm it.

[Aweberon]

The Past 5 frames have been RNG bountie drops unfortunately -_-, sad to say but its likely man U____U

[5H4DE]

Grind aside, personally I feel like having a frame that uses her shields for energy is terrible unless that frame has some strong DR in her kit. Yes, she'll be amazing against low level enemies that tickle shields, but in any content past lvl60 she's going to run dry very fast with no options but to run away from combat if she wants to be able to cast again. Dunno how DE plan to make her work, but I hope they are fully aware how easy it is for enemies to burn through shields.

[peterc3]

13 hours ago, Lewtenant said:

Locking baruuk behind old mate and then tiers of vox solaris was a mistake that DE can still fix before switch release

Why would the Switch release of Baruuk's update warrant a change? You're asserting it's a mistake without really explaining how you're right and DE is wrong.

13 hours ago, Lewtenant said:

So now we are getting this warframe with innate energy regeneration (unless they nerf hildryn's shield generation) that's built around early game survivability.

You're basing this off of an assumption.

13 hours ago, Lewtenant said:

she might not be viewed as very powerful

If this is entirely about how she is perceived and not connected to her actual play and abilities, what is it that you think DE can do about that? If memes are going to start affecting actual development of the game, I might need to reconsider playing it.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Why are any of you giving feedback on a Warframe whose skills and mechanics are completely unknown to us save for one detail?

Can you please use your genius intellect to tell us if Wispframe will be endgame viable?

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, TheRealShade said:

I feel like having a frame that uses her shields for energy is terrible unless that frame has some strong DR in her kit.

Knowing the way they've played this kind of thing in the past, they'll have one ability or specific function that gains shields and over-shields, either in the same vein as Harrow, or as part of her passive that lets her... gain her shield back every time she performs a specific action.

On top of that, this is likely the return of the sentinel mods, with the Taxon's abilities, the Shield Charger mod and that one that instantly restores your shield to full if it goes down. With all of those as backup... and the fact that everyone forgets Shield Restores exist... I don't think that economy on her abilities is going to be much of an issue.

However, what she needs is Lore.

Aside from Revenant, who had a small Lore-based line on him, there's Khora, Garuda and Baruuk who got nothing Lore-based in their releases. Considering that the six frames before that all had some kind of quest or Lore around them, and that if you skip Nezha and Wukong (who were for the Chinese Release) every other frame has been some kind of Boss drop or quest-related frame right the way back to 2014... Having these newer frames be pure grind rewards has been... weird.

Khora had this wonderful build-up with the collectables that pointed to her being on the Plains and part of a quest... and then nothing, she was Sanctuary Onslaught loot. Garuda and Baruuk weren't even given that much.

So hopefully Hildryn and Wisp will have actual Lore, whether or not they're superior frames to anything we already have.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

We don't know enough about what she can do to really critique anything yet.

As far as arguing for her to be early game accessible for the sake of casting ability, I strongly disagree. Players should learn to play the game first before they are taught to spam abilities in replacement of skill like people do once they have access to the tons of energy regeneration methods we have in this game. People already flock to the 1-button room clear frames because they are too lazy or unskilled to play half the content we have. lol

[Elementalos]

7 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Why are any of you giving feedback on a Warframe whose skills and mechanics are completely unknown to us save for one detail?

I mean, the main thrust of the OP's feedback is telling DE that they don't want her unlock requirements to be as heavily gated and clunky as Baruuk. That's completely fair game.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

I just want her... now... she is my kind of girl.

[TKDancer]

12 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Why would the Switch release of Baruuk's update warrant a change? You're asserting it's a mistake without really explaining how you're right and DE is wrong.

locking a frame behind 2 full syndicate's worth of grind is bads, not that complicated

 

a ridiculous amount of effort with time gating(daily standing caps, which depend on ur MR) unlike pretty much any other frame, save for maybe OG mesa

10 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Why are any of you giving feedback on a Warframe whose skills and mechanics are completely unknown to us save for one detail?

Can you please use your genius intellect to tell us if Wispframe will be endgame viable?

eh, they also provide feedback on the acquisition of frames, citing baruuk as a problem child situation that they dont want to see repeated

plus i dont think it hurts to say hyldrin WILL need DR on those shields

[Lewtenant]

On 2019-01-23 at 5:12 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Why are any of you giving feedback on a Warframe whose skills and mechanics are completely unknown to us save for one detail?

Guess what. DE doesn't change how people farm warframes: it's the same game type give it assassination, sanctuary onlaught, whatever. The point of this post is to say: hey here's a frame that can cast abilities with shields. A resource that new players can have, and allow them to actually use abilities before they get energizing dash. Maybe allow new players to actually farm this warframe this time, instead of waiting until they are MR 18?

On 2019-01-23 at 3:47 AM, peterc3 said:

Why would the Switch release of Baruuk's update warrant a change?

Switch players are the youngest console and the players that didn't PC clone are climbing MR which means their standing gain is lower than most players. Baruuk is gated behind old mate, which is like 300k solaris standing, and then tier 4 of vox solaris, which is another 100k standing. They don't even have fortuna yet to start earning reputation. Old mate is a stupid barrier for players to participate in mission related content.

On 2019-01-23 at 8:07 AM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Players should learn to play the game first before they are taught to spam abilities

Abilities won't be spammable for early game players. Shield costs for abilities will most likely be higher than energy since we have 740 shield with redirection on most frames. Additionally, if new players don't avoid/mitigate damage they won't have the shields to spam them in content anyway. Natural regeneration of shields has a 3 second delay that cannot be modded to reduce that delay. Taxon will be their only means of overshield generation, and maxing redirection takes a ton of endo and drain for new players.

Also trinity prime is free with twitch prime, which many new players leverage. Trinity is already ability spam once she is rank 3.

On 2019-01-22 at 9:02 PM, Aweberon said:

The Past 5 frames have been RNG bountie drops

Baruuk wasn't RNG for once. The RNG behind garuda wasn't bad, but tier 4 standing locking the blueprint to make rare gems was a kick in the nuts to farm her.  Revenant and Khora were both bad releases. Khora's rng drop table has been adjusted, but Revenant was just a nerf to plains drop tables. Would rather to have purchased him with standing from Nakak.

On 2019-01-23 at 5:12 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Wispframe will be endgame viable

Fashionframe looks good, so yeah I'd say she is. Then again my taste in fashion is pretty garbage so maybe some one of your genius intellect could offer better feedback. Also yeah I made assumptions with Hyldrin's passive mechanics, based on what Scott said on stream. We as a community assume that what the developers say they are working on is how it will behave and give constructive criticism to it, while discussing other interactions, it's all subject to change: except how you farm the frame.

[TheSecondCaptain]

Honestly, with Adaptation being around & probably more damage mitigation in her kit since she is a tank I doubt that this will be a real problem. I mean, Shields aren't really the best against infested because of Toxin, but as long as you're willing to go a bit janky things like full shield shock Chroma are viable, I don't see why she wouldn't be useful late-game just because of reliance on shields.

[000l000]

Le 23/01/2019 à 19:37, Elementalos a dit :

I mean, the main thrust of the OP's feedback is telling DE that they don't want her unlock requirements to be as heavily gated and clunky as Baruuk. That's completely fair game.

Heavily and clunky ?

Baruuk was no grind and reputation is one of the easiest thing to get in this game. Everyone will get him at some point, no RNG, no grind, only playing...

People like to complain a lot, they don't like RNG, they don't like reputation, they don't like relics, they don't like craft. That's pretty much what you can read all day long about any new frame ever. No breaking news here. 😅

[DerGreif2]

Besides baruuk all kind of grinds for frames are ok. Dont expect to have everything on day one. Pay plat or farm a week or so.

On 2019-01-24 at 5:57 PM, Lewtenant said:

Abilities won't be spammable for early game players. Shield costs for abilities will most likely be higher than energy since we have 740 shield with redirection on most frames. Additionally, if new players don't avoid/mitigate damage they won't have the shields to spam them in content anyway. Natural regeneration of shields has a 3 second delay that cannot be modded to reduce that delay. Taxon will be their only means of overshield generation, and maxing redirection takes a ton of endo and drain for new players.

Early game players... you know that they are OP in a month right? Also new players should not get anything. It could be maybe a late game frame like saryn. You dont need maxed mods for almost any frame... yesterday I picked my farm nekros with just vital and adaptation and started the solo sortie surv... no problems... WITH A FREAKING FARM BUILD IN SORTIE 3! Hilden will be used because she is new/cool or because she is OP. There are no other options. And because we dont really need support frames I hope that she dont end like Harrow... one of the top 10 least played frames.

Edited January 29, 2019 by DerGreif2

[(PSN)mrpayt0n73]

On 2019-01-29 at 6:10 AM, 000l000 said:

People like to complain a lot, they don't like RNG, they don't like reputation, they don't like relics, they don't like craft. That's pretty much what you can read all day long about any new frame ever. No breaking news here. 

 I agree 110%! This game has been grind from the start and it obviously works because look where it is today. Look at everything this company has endured and overcome despite all odds. This generation of gamers are all about "I want, I want.....But I don't want to do anything to earn it. Just give it to me". They want everyone to be the same. Well how do you think the guy or girl that did the time and effort for something feels about everything they worked for being given away to the next person? if this were a pay to play game then yea, if we all pay for it then we all should be nearly the same but it's not. It's a free game so why all the complaining? Also, for those that don't like the grind, RNG, relics and crafting.......Why are you even playing this game? Stop showing off your syandana in the relay and actually do something other than complain about the backbone of this games structure...and that's the Grind.

On a side note, I am not directing this to anyone specifically so if you get butthurt over something I said then my thoughts on that are."Well, if the shoe fits". I'm just a 5yr warframe player that loves the game and I've posted maybe a dozen times during those 5 yrs. I just needed to get all that out of my system. Probably won't even check the replies because I know what it'll be....Nothing but more complaining.

Edited February 4, 2019 by (PS4)mrpayt0n73
Typo

[Yefrign]

I for one am rather excited for this new frame and hearing that she's a "tech" based Frame and and emphasis on using her shields to power her abilities have really gotten me thinking... 

what kind of skills can we expect or would like to see? 

Concern no1: for anyone that has played the game for a decent length of time. we all know Shields aren't that... well, good... its not a decent form of defense especially on higher difficulties. we all know its Health and Armor stacking (when viable) is crucial to survive. too many things bypass shields for it to be a main focus for defense; poison and slash damage are the main culprits here...

so with this in mind... I was thinking if this frame is all about shields... then she would likely need something to buff her defense to a point where she doesn't just die off when it comes to the more difficult content the game has (unless we are getting a damage rework and shield gating becomes a thing but I seriously doubt that is going to be happening soon. not with the melee rework around the corner) 

we don't know what her abilities are right now. and I wanted to list a few that came to mind of what could make her really cool and unique among the warframes:

Since she is tech based. and one that could potentially turn her into a pretty decent tank would either be a passive buff or an active ability (Like Rhino's Iron skin) that buffs her shields to a point where poison and Slash damage doesn't bypass her shields. (this could also be a nice change when it comes to modding her to actually want to build with things like Redirection and Fast Deflection may actually want to be used/recommended instead of our usual go to's)

another thought which was brought up by DKDiamantes, we know she is getting her own themed Archgun... but wouldn't it be pretty awesome if her archgun was an exalted weapon? 

now I know Archguns are already pretty powerful and exalted weapons are generally pretty stupid powerful so an exalted Archgun would likely be turning the dial to 11 when it only goes to 10 but I think there are ways to balance it. perhaps it could be based on a limited ammo pool or perhaps it consumes her shields whenever it fires... (or energy even) but that would even be dependent on HOW the weapon actually works.... is it a slow firing cannon like weapon? is it some beam weapon? is it some rapid fire machine gun like thing? or perhaps it could even have alternating fire modes... like cannon AND a MG mode. each with its own differences when it comes to raw damage, rof, crit chance, status etc. 

 

anyway these are just a couple of ideas. since we don't know what she is actually capable of yet. throw in some ideas, brainstorm. what would you like to see this new frame have given with what you have heard and seen so far? 

[PsiWarp]

That ball she is holding in the Devstream teaser... could be a deployable dome, or a nuke, or a buff orb/bomb, or kamehameha.

Since she is techy and all that, maybe can generate ammo? Chance to drop a Heavy Weapon ammo pickup in regular missions for her Arch-gun shenanigans?

[Urlan]

I would agree that shields tend to not have much usefulness outside of very early missions due to lack of scaling player side. I would look forward to any boosts to making shields themselves more effective, something like shield attenuation or frequency would be fine as a way to introduce armor-esque damage resistances to this survival stat. Is it weird to anyone else though, that Rhino who is described as the warframe with the heaviest armor has medium armor at best and large shields while the female version of his build has a heavy focus around shielding as well?

[Kaotyke]

All I know is that her pose in the picture, if looked from her back would be a motherf*BLEEP*king JoJo Reference.

[LupisV0lk]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

All I know is that her pose in the picture, if looked from her back would be a motherf*BLEEP*king JoJo Reference.

I see your a man of culture as well.

[z3us32610]

4 hours ago, Yefrign said:

Since she is tech based. and one that could potentially turn her into a pretty decent tank would either be a passive buff or an active ability (Like Rhino's Iron skin) that buffs her shields to a point where poison and Slash damage doesn't bypass her shields. (this could also be a nice change when it comes to modding her to actually want to build with things like Redirection and Fast Deflection may actually want to be used/recommended instead of our usual go to's)

I am really intrigued by this idea. It would be really interesting to work in an ability or passive that made shields viable for higher content. Then on Baros 150th visit we could get Primed Fast Deflection! Lol, jokes aside, this has got me thinking a bit about how they could make her rely on shields with very little armor and an average health pool. Maybe even synergizing her abilities to add buffs to her shields so that they can resist the pros you mention. Or even reflect damage back. That could be neat. 

[Lewtenant]

On 2019-01-29 at 8:04 AM, DerGreif2 said:

Early game players... you know that they are OP in a month right? Also new players should not get anything. It could be maybe a late game frame like saryn.

Saryn farm is fine. You get a taxi to hydron, get carried by some pubs through the arena, and then run the fight a few times and you have her crafting. What I'm saying is that people should be able to start playing this game, set a goal to farm something, and be able to farm it. If I want gara or revenant I can do their little quest, and then grind their parts. There's minimal MR blockage in farming it. Baruuk is blocked behind 400,000 accummulative standing. Relative to every single other frame in the game, he requires by far the most grind of anything.

The more you require prior content to access new content, the more of a slog this game becomes to choose how they want to play, and even eliminates player choice in how they spend their time. I can swing my 4 year old account all I want, but if I introduce a friend to the game, I don't want to explain to them that they need to play for months to get one warframe. That's not how this game has worked in the past, and it shouldn't persist.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Lewtenant said:

The more you require prior content to access new content, the more of a slog this game becomes to choose how they want to play,

Baruuk is hardly even the most difficult farm in the game. If you aren't hearing the pain of people trying to farm Equinox, for one... But for actual grind, let's look at some of the others.

Harrow requires you finishing The War Within and at least having finished Mot in the void, which you can taxi for, but if you're a solo player takes a long time to reach. After that, once you've actually finished the quests, the parts acquisition is fun levels of RNG on the Kuva Fortress Spy, only if you get all three vaults, and on Defection missions.

Ivara is Spy missions only where her parts never have more than a 9% chance to drop no matter which one you're looking for, and you're expecting a minimum 13-20 runs to actually achieve any single part, and potentially over 100 runs in total per part if your RNG is unlucky.

Octavia, after her initial quest, which requires you to have completed The Second Dream, is only available from very, very specific places on Lua, and then on Orokin Derelict Survival with only around a 22% chance of ever getting her part per 20 minutes.

Heck, even Chroma requires you to specifically unlock his parts from the Junctions, and then you have to go back and farm a specific part of Ember, Saryn, Frost and then hit the Dojo for another Volt part.

Why not throw in the ridiculous 20 Nitain Extract and 7000 Oxium required for Vauban Prime? (Well, apart from the fact that Vauban is currently in a ridiculously bad state right now...)

Nidus requires passing The War Within, and then his parts drop only from one specific mission, the Infested Salvage, and with less than 15% chance at any single part, meaning the average expected chance to get him is 12 or more full C rotations, with an outside RNG problem meaning you could need over 50 runs to guarantee getting him.

Khora is only available from Sanctuary Onslaught, which means you'll have had to grind round to at least Jupiter and The New Strange before you can even access it, and then the parts are only ever up to an 11% chance to drop, meaning you could be expecting 13 runs to the C rotation to get her, with an outside chance of needing over 60 runs to any rotation in order to guarantee getting her.

When you compare that to Baruuk, you have less grind to get him than you do to get a rank 10 Exodia Arcane for your Zaw in Cetus. And you don't even have that amount of RNG either.

If you're going to argue that a player can get to any other content in the game via Taxi services or getting a little carried, then you can argue the exact same for Baruuk, but with even less chance of frustration because ranking up with the Syndicates is actually incredibly reliable and only takes time due to the daily cap on your contributions.

Now...

Would everyone calm down? Hildryn and Wisp are showing up in this Friday's DevStream, so how about we just... wait and see?

[000l000]

Il y a 16 heures, Lewtenant a dit :

Saryn farm is fine. You get a taxi to hydron, get carried by some pubs through the arena, and then run the fight a few times and you have her crafting. What I'm saying is that people should be able to start playing this game, set a goal to farm something, and be able to farm it. If I want gara or revenant I can do their little quest, and then grind their parts. There's minimal MR blockage in farming it. Baruuk is blocked behind 400,000 accummulative standing. Relative to every single other frame in the game, he requires by far the most grind of anything.

The more you require prior content to access new content, the more of a slog this game becomes to choose how they want to play, and even eliminates player choice in how they spend their time. I can swing my 4 year old account all I want, but if I introduce a friend to the game, I don't want to explain to them that they need to play for months to get one warframe. That's not how this game has worked in the past, and it shouldn't persist.

RNG is always worse than anything else. Everyone is gonna farm reputation at some point anyway.

The only true difference is that one has to wait until he gets enough rep, but people can also get mature at once and be patient. Not getting something day one isn't bad news, not everyone has to act like a spoiled child.

Now if a friend of yours really wants him, he can still spend platinium, that's how Warframe works, and that's also how most free-to-play games work. You can't complain about everything not being available at will and still not spending a cent to play the game. If your rhetorical friend needs a month to get enough plat to get Baruuk, that's only because you aren't explaining anything useful to him either.

I got Baruuk and this was no grind, i was in no hurry. I didn't have to farm anything random since a few reputation was the only thing i needed, and tbh getting Solaris reputation is one of the easiest thing to do in the entire game. 🤘

[DrBorris]

Warframe: The game where rewarding/encouraging players to play the game is apparently a bad thing.