Hildryn: Devstream #123

[EmberStar]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The only thing I dislike about her is that her 1st ability is going to open a Pandora’s box in the forums for people to be asking for all the frames to get some form of mini exalted weapon for their first ability.

It would certainly be nice for frames that *already* have "fake exalted" weapons.  I hate trying to deal with Atlas or Khora's powers, because there's exactly *zero* in-game feedback about how the weapons actually interact with them.  Forgive me if I'd rather that such information was actually presented in the game.  As opposed to having to go to the wiki and build a freaking spreadsheet to try to work out how they interact.

If the Atlas Fistpunch of Punching, or Khora's Whipclaw were actual weapons then I could just *build them how I want,* and not have to try to juggle having a power not-completely-suck if I want my melee attacks to be effective.

[Yefrign]

So. we have now seen what her abilities are. what are peoples thoughts on them?

 

I think 2 - 4 seem really interesting. she DOES indeed have a way to remove/ignore procs like poison and slash which is great (and bonus to be able to remove them of allies too) I think its a LITTLE bandaid'ie because unless there is somekind of proc immunity for a few seconds after removing them you're likely to just cop the procs again as soon as you loose them but only once we get our hands on them we will see.

my biggest concern at the moment is her first ability.... does it count as an "exalted" weapon of sorts? if not the charge time on that is soooooooooooooooooo slow I don't see it being useful at all (unless it does stupid damage with stupid aoe but even then... there are weapons that can do that without a 3 second charge time so...) until we get our hands on it I'm reserving judgement but at this point of time I don't see that ability getting much use and may end up being one of those abilities that no one ever uses with the frame (like other frames with unused abilities) 

[PsiWarp]

Anyone notice how the pillared guys were dropping energy orbs like candy? Who needs Zenurik when we have Spectrosiphon built into Aegis Storm?

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Said like a true meta try-hard.

Sucks for you, I guess

I'm far from a "try hard" and I use plenty of things that are non meta.  I don't understand why you have to take such an aggressive tone to someone who has a different opinion.

If her exalted weapon had some unique thing about it (like Baruuk's cc effects on his exalted) I could justify it.  But it just seems like an extra weapon.  So i'll pass.  Maybe if kills with the gun gave her shields back.  That would be something at least.  But i'm not about to sink extra forma into something that is 100% redundant.

2 hours ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

When they showed her 4 on the devstream, the frame had her weapons put away. Unless I'm an idiot, I think that means you can only use her 1 while using her 4 if you want some sort of gun, which explains the ability even being a thing I think.

That's what i'm afraid of.  Like.  If there was some cool synergistic effect of using both at the same time i'd be down for that.  But if i'm forced to use the exalted or nothing while i'm in her 4 that's just lazy design/forced synergy in my book.  I want to like her but so far there isn't anything about her that makes me jump at her immediately.  I am hoping she receives further polish and pc players show me something unique or amazing about her that changes my mind on it.  I'm still reeling from Revenant.  I'd rather not add another frame to the pile of frames I don't enjoy.  So far it's just Revenant.

[StarMoral]

It seems she may be absolutely overpowered with Trinity, Equinox, and Mag.

[Unus]

The largest thing I enjoy about this suit is that Digital is using it as an experimental guinea pig for shield gateing. While I don't quite care whether it's implemented or not on a wide scale (or, say, as an augment it gives to others), I love it when we get to put things through their paces to give Digital data to crunch. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Unus

[Legion-Shields]

I would love to be able to build a warframe like I would build a Drake or Rattlesnake in Eve Online: powerful shields that rely on damage resistance and continuous recharging to tank as opposed to raw hitpoints or buffer. Still prone to getting one-shot, but as long as you don't make yourself an easy target it can be very effective.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Legion-Shields

[000l000]

Il y a 10 heures, DrBorris a dit :

So Kitguns, MOAs, and all of the other rewards of Fortuna just don't count? By your logic Trinity is a (obscene) 40 hour grind because you need to get through the entire Star Chart before you get to Pluto. Obviously this is an "obscene" way to look at this, the initial star-chart progression has a ton of other rewards along the way.

You are not grinding Fortuna just for Baruuk, there are dozens of other things. Baruuk is just one of many rewards.

And there's no such thing as standing grind. There's a daily cap and tbh this not much of an effort either, especially Solaris which is the easiest standing progression ever. No effort, no grind, just patience.

Only issue people have is a lack of patience. As i said, if one is as patient as a 12 years old child he can still buy with plat. Warframe is a free-to-play game, people have to deal with it instead of complaining all day long.

Edited February 9, 2019 by 000l000

[Annnoth]

Problem I have is that her abilities are worded in a way that makes it sound similar to revenant. I.e. you can only actually take shields from things that have shields which very much hinders the effective use overall. Which is amusing given the first shield based frame they tries didnt have these problems.

[Valiant]

Liking her but wondering how her abilities will play with enemies which don't have shields like the infested and the grineer? Not very well I'm assuming... 

 

And yeah zephyr should've got something like this. Not as if it's been asked for multiple times. She'll just be floaty leaf frame forever now whilst hildryn and Titania laugh at her. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

You... might have missed it.

With her 4 active, the Balefire does equip two-handed. When they activated it in the beginning of the demo it's only one-handed. But when they activated it in the air using her 4, it's on both hands, for charging and fire.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

21 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You... might have missed it.

With her 4 active, the Balefire does equip two-handed. When they activated it in the beginning of the demo it's only one-handed. But when they activated it in the air using her 4, it's on both hands, for charging and fire.

He’s aware of the second one. He just wants a charge attack for it that works like a laser cannon. Like Iron Mans Unibeam.

[(PSN)psycofang]

9 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

In the moment she is a tanky CC frame or just a CC frame... is Nyx good? Is Vauban good? Is any other CC frame good right now?

Limbo still remains God.

[Lady_Lumia]

After warching this stream and seeing how Hildryn can perform I hardly thinking about how they can rework Vauban to be more useful. Also the shield mods will be mandatory on her start from regen to vitality-redirection combo even with vigor. A taxon companion and a Harrow team mate can boost her really well. 

 

[Kaotyke]

6 hours ago, Yefrign said:

So. we have now seen what her abilities are. what are peoples thoughts on them?

 

I think 2 - 4 seem really interesting. she DOES indeed have a way to remove/ignore procs like poison and slash which is great (and bonus to be able to remove them of allies too) I think its a LITTLE bandaid'ie because unless there is somekind of proc immunity for a few seconds after removing them you're likely to just cop the procs again as soon as you loose them but only once we get our hands on them we will see.

my biggest concern at the moment is her first ability.... does it count as an "exalted" weapon of sorts? if not the charge time on that is soooooooooooooooooo slow I don't see it being useful at all (unless it does stupid damage with stupid aoe but even then... there are weapons that can do that without a 3 second charge time so...) until we get our hands on it I'm reserving judgement but at this point of time I don't see that ability getting much use and may end up being one of those abilities that no one ever uses with the frame (like other frames with unused abilities) 

Aside from survivability mods, Rebecca sair she was unmodded.

Since its a pistol, its granted for us to put a Lethal Torrent there.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Shield. Gating. That's right my friend ^^ Shield. Gating.

As a concept, this is something DE have been discussing over and over again and saying that it's something they're not sure whether it actually works in Warframe due to how damage is treated.

With this we have two instances of Gating, both the Overshields and the main Shields, meaning that we can literally get sniped by a level 300 and it still won't be a one-shot.

That, and with over 4k shields with just a Redirection on her (which is apparently what they did for the showcase), literally no Energy costs on her abilities, two abilities that restore shields and clear Status... I mean, what's the issue with Bleed and Toxin going straight through shields if she can literally press 2 and clear them?

Yeah, no, she's going to be fine.

It may look good on paper, but the question is how it works live.

Shield gating may seem great, but in reality will it actually be good? If the shields are still not effected by armor, it will still still be the worst defense in the game. You'll go from getting 1HK to getting 3HK i.e overshield, shield, hp. It will not be on par with frames that can effectively rely on health+armor because the EHP will not be close to that.

It may work well on Hildryn since she is designed around it and will have other ways to replenish her shields. But I'll wait until she's out to see if her kit truely is unique and well made. If zenurik will work on her I can see shield gating being useful. It also depends alot on how much shields her abilities will cost.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Rakta Dark Dagger. 

Now you have endless shields. 

[Nitro747]

DE must be thinking that the fact that Hildryn can regenerate shields from energy orbs and have a "huge" shield capacity it means that she will be anywhere near "survivable", but they are quite wrong. Shields in this game means absolutely nothing when it comes to defense and helping a player stay alive. The fact that she will be actively depleting her own shield pool in order to cast her powers - including powers that would help her staying alive - makes the situation even worse. This is a horde game where enemies spawns from EVERYWHERE, even from rooms that have no connection with each other. Players are constantly taking damage from every direction possible and at certain levels even a stray pellet from a corrupted crewman is enough to send all but the tankiest warframes from 100% shields and health to death.

Lets start with the biggest problem: shields offer no damage reduction whatsoever. It seems fair enough since shields regenerate automatically over time, but it isn't. At low levels enemies deal some 40 dmg per shot. At higher levels, they deal 100s. At further levels the enemies deal THOUSANDS of damage per shot. The only way to survive that sort of content is by having warframes with abilities that offer a buffer health pool ability, damage reduction abilities, invisibility or extreme amounts of health and/or armor. Warframes with very high shield capacity have no chance at mitigating any damage because of their shields, and the fact that players are constantly taking damage + the already high shield regeneration delay coupled with the very slow regeneration rate makes such warframes completely not viable when it comes to surviving. However, these warframes have other tools at their disposal that help their survival and contributes greatly to their overall kit: Harrow can become invulnerable to damage, buff his allies, buff himself, etc; his first ability provides instant shield boosts that also CC's enemies. Mag can instantly replenish her shields while also CC and debuff enemies with the same ability, provide bubbles of safety for herself, etc. Meanwhile Hildryn will have a big shield pool that will also work as her energy pool. That means two things:

1- A couple shots taken and she will be rendered defenseless AND unable to cast her abilities.

2- While unable to cast her abilities (which already don't seem to help too much in the case since none of it seems to add % dmg reduction) she will be in a position where there is no way out, almost as if she was stunlocked, and then she dies.

Even with shield gating, the mere fact she can't cast her own powers without shields will render her useless. The situations will probably be something like: lose shields in a couple hits > shield gating activates > she survives for 2 seconds > shield regenerates a little bit > she takes another hit and will lose all her shields instantly since it will be impossible for them to regenerate fully in the mean time.

The only way I see this warframe working somewhat decently is by playing it in the worst way possible to play warframe: camping and cheesing the heck out of the game, which unfortunately is the norm for very high level survival missions. It's a bit odd considering that she is supposed to be a tanky high powered big guns big muscles warframes with heavy weapons. She is not Loki or Mirage. Having this sort of warframe locked in this specific, boring play style seems quite bad. 

I thought at first that maybe she is being designed around the Adaptation mod. However, that mod is quite broken to be really honest and only adds a benefit for warframes that DO NOT rely on a big shield pool. It benefits, again, big health, armor pool warframes and even so it is a gimmick at best and useless at worse. I myself tried using Adaptation in multiple different settings with Mag and Harrow - Remember: Mag can INSTANTLY gain 2.5k shields with the press of a button while CC'ing enemies and Harrow can be constantly generating shields - and the results were sub par at most. Even with Mag, I calculated that her survivability didn't change much. She was able to survive damage for about 1 second longer than with the Adaptation mod (which was occupying a mod slot that could be used for something more useful) even when all dmg reduction buffs were taken in place. An option would be fixing the Adaptation mod and maybe buffing it a little, but creating a whole Warframe around ONE mod is just bad design.

So, unless DE wants to have a Warframe already dead on arrival, DE should really do something about shields in general. Shield gating will not be enough to make Hildryn anywhere near survivable, enjoyable and playable. Adding some innate damage reduction to shields would be a good step forward. Add some sort of modifier like shield strenght for instance. Not only that would make Hildryn powerful as she is supposed to be, but that will also open possibilities towards new ways to play different warframes such as Mag and Harrow and will make an entire mechanic useful instead of the good old "don't care about shields, they are useless".

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Nitro747 said:

-snip-

I have the same concerns as you.

To me it comes down to how they handle shield gating.

Each shield version is a seperate entity, damage cannot overflow from one to another. This would mean that a hit to her during overshields can only ever drain her overshields. Another incoming hit can only ever damage her regular shield and not health. Hits beyond that will hit the health and eventually kill her aslong as shields dont start charging back.

That is atleast how I imagine it to work. Still not great, but it has massive potential with zenurik if they let it effect her shield. This mostly because she will always have some shield, so if played correctly around managing the shield it will make her strong.

However with it all comes the problem that she uses her shield to fuel her abilities. Now if efficiency will work on those it'll be ok because the skills will only cost 25 tops, which isnt alot with several thousand points of shield.

I'm still very hessitant to her mechanics working or making her playable at all. It will be interesting to see. I mean if they can get shield gating to work for her I'd love to see it on Mag, Volt and Harrow, they could be completely insane.

 

[FlusteredFerret]

On 2019-01-29 at 11:10 AM, 000l000 said:

Heavily and clunky ?

Baruuk was no grind and reputation is one of the easiest thing to get in this game. Everyone will get him at some point, no RNG, no grind, only playing...

People like to complain a lot, they don't like RNG, they don't like reputation, they don't like relics, they don't like craft. That's pretty much what you can read all day long about any new frame ever. No breaking news here. 😅

Exactly.

OP's post can be summed up as "Gimme new stuff nao...don't wanna wait".

 

Which is pretty common on the forums. People play a game that is built around grinding, RNG and time-gating...then complain that they don't like grinding, RNG and having to wait once they've maxed their daily standing. 

Seems some people just want instant access to gear that will make an already fairly easy game, do-able while completely switching your brain off.

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[Gnlstorm]

On 2019-02-04 at 11:23 PM, (PS4)mrpayt0n73 said:

 I agree 110%! This game has been grind from the start and it obviously works because look where it is today. Look at everything this company has endured and overcome despite all odds. This generation of gamers are all about "I want, I want.....But I don't want to do anything to earn it. Just give it to me". They want everyone to be the same. Well how do you think the guy or girl that did the time and effort for something feels about everything they worked for being given away to the next person? if this were a pay to play game then yea, if we all pay for it then we all should be nearly the same but it's not. It's a free game so why all the complaining? Also, for those that don't like the grind, RNG, relics and crafting.......Why are you even playing this game? Stop showing off your syandana in the relay and actually do something other than complain about the backbone of this games structure...and that's the Grind.

On a side note, I am not directing this to anyone specifically so if you get butthurt over something I said then my thoughts on that are."Well, if the shoe fits". I'm just a 5yr warframe player that loves the game and I've posted maybe a dozen times during those 5 yrs. I just needed to get all that out of my system. Probably won't even check the replies because I know what it'll be....Nothing but more complaining.

I totally agreed.. Once a upon a time when old player never complain and did well but the new generation Tenno some really lack of determine and patient  

[Gnlstorm]

On 2019-02-07 at 6:56 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Baruuk is hardly even the most difficult farm in the game. If you aren't hearing the pain of people trying to farm Equinox, for one... But for actual grind, let's look at some of the others.

Harrow requires you finishing The War Within and at least having finished Mot in the void, which you can taxi for, but if you're a solo player takes a long time to reach. After that, once you've actually finished the quests, the parts acquisition is fun levels of RNG on the Kuva Fortress Spy, only if you get all three vaults, and on Defection missions.

Ivara is Spy missions only where her parts never have more than a 9% chance to drop no matter which one you're looking for, and you're expecting a minimum 13-20 runs to actually achieve any single part, and potentially over 100 runs in total per part if your RNG is unlucky.

Octavia, after her initial quest, which requires you to have completed The Second Dream, is only available from very, very specific places on Lua, and then on Orokin Derelict Survival with only around a 22% chance of ever getting her part per 20 minutes.

Heck, even Chroma requires you to specifically unlock his parts from the Junctions, and then you have to go back and farm a specific part of Ember, Saryn, Frost and then hit the Dojo for another Volt part.

Why not throw in the ridiculous 20 Nitain Extract and 7000 Oxium required for Vauban Prime? (Well, apart from the fact that Vauban is currently in a ridiculously bad state right now...)

Nidus requires passing The War Within, and then his parts drop only from one specific mission, the Infested Salvage, and with less than 15% chance at any single part, meaning the average expected chance to get him is 12 or more full C rotations, with an outside RNG problem meaning you could need over 50 runs to guarantee getting him.

Khora is only available from Sanctuary Onslaught, which means you'll have had to grind round to at least Jupiter and The New Strange before you can even access it, and then the parts are only ever up to an 11% chance to drop, meaning you could be expecting 13 runs to the C rotation to get her, with an outside chance of needing over 60 runs to any rotation in order to guarantee getting her.

When you compare that to Baruuk, you have less grind to get him than you do to get a rank 10 Exodia Arcane for your Zaw in Cetus. And you don't even have that amount of RNG either.

If you're going to argue that a player can get to any other content in the game via Taxi services or getting a little carried, then you can argue the exact same for Baruuk, but with even less chance of frustration because ranking up with the Syndicates is actually incredibly reliable and only takes time due to the daily cap on your contributions.

 

Would everyone calm down? Hildryn and Wisp are showing up in this Friday's DevStream, so how about we just... wait and see?

I not sure how Tenno farm warframe but for me every new warframe until now i only use 1 days to get it as for those warframe that need to grind just need to get back daily(hardworking)

[Guest]

Man, no mention of Augur mod set, Arcane Barrier and Arcane Aegis to regen shields?

[SenariousNex]

On 2019-01-23 at 2:41 AM, TheRealShade said:

Grind aside, personally I feel like having a frame that uses her shields for energy is terrible unless that frame has some strong DR in her kit. Yes, she'll be amazing against low level enemies that tickle shields, but in any content past lvl60 she's going to run dry very fast with no options but to run away from combat if she wants to be able to cast again. Dunno how DE plan to make her work, but I hope they are fully aware how easy it is for enemies to burn through shields.

With adaptation + barrier / aegis she will be no different than inaros with adaptation + guardian / grace, just with more interesting kit.

[BallisticSalsa]

Adaptation is an absolute must for her. The DR is one of the few things that apply to shields.

Stacking shield regen is actually really easy in this game but theirs no incentive to do so. Add in the ways to restore energy with it.

Yeah she's going to be an absolute unit.