(NSW)jja209 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Zeclem said: its not meaningless or pointless if you dont want it to be. people can and often do find a purpose for themselves to keep on going. nihilism is nothing more than edginess for grown ups. So who says that I can’t keep going and not have a purpose at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvid Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 "If we affirm one moment, we thus affirm not only ourselves but all existence. For nothing is self-sufficient, neither in us ourselves nor in things; and if our soul has trembled with happiness and sounded like a harp string just once, all eternity was needed to produce this one event—and in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed." — Friedrich Nietzsche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, (NSW)jja209 said: So who says that I can’t keep going and not have a purpose at the same time? you can, but its not exactly optimal for human beings. seeking a goal is our thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Zeclem said: you can, but its not exactly optimal for human beings. seeking a goal is our thing. Well not if you're a nihilist obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Zeclem said: you can, but its not exactly optimal for human beings. seeking a goal is our thing. Well I guess I’m not like my fellow human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Well I appreciate you guys for having constructive discourse with me.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, (NSW)jja209 said: Well I appreciate you guys for having constructive discourse with me.Thank you. To be fair, if you were a serious nihilist you wouldn't care about having constructive discourse. Since, you know, it would all be meaningless anyway. So come on, you are half way on your way to existentialism, you might as well come over and join us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 4 hours ago, rune_me said: To be fair, if you were a serious nihilist you wouldn't care about having constructive discourse. Since, you know, it would all be meaningless anyway. So come on, you are half way on your way to existentialism, you might as well come over and join us. It is meaningless.Its as meaningless as all the other meaningless things that I do in my meaningless life.Who said that I cared.No no one did. I was just trying to be nice with that post that you responded to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 4 hours ago, rune_me said: To be fair, if you were a serious nihilist you wouldn't care about having constructive discourse. Since, you know, it would all be meaningless anyway. So come on, you are half way on your way to existentialism, you might as well come over and join us. thats basically the thing that destroys the arguments on nihilism made by niet and kierkegaard(and several other things). niet was misguided in his views about how nihilism is the consequence/trend of the western culture when that same culture(and several others) was the one that kept pushing people to find a meaning for themselves. if that wasnt the case how come the western world did all the stuff they did? and his opinion of nihilism stems from the idea that there can be no facts cus information is always changing, which is kind of ironic consider that idea is also a fact itself. kierkegaard on the other hand claimed that society indirectly forces us to be same, therefore nobody is unique so we might as well not exist. which wasnt even true for his time, let alone today. while yes, society does directly and indirectly forces us to obey to its molds, there are more than plenty of people in all walks of life that defied it and managed to be successful. tbh if it wasnt for hegel, majority of 19-20th century thinkers would be pretty much non existant, and its especially the case for these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, Zeclem said: thats basically the thing that destroys the arguments on nihilism made by niet and kierkegaard(and several other things). niet was misguided in his views about how nihilism is the consequence/trend of the western culture when that same culture(and several others) was the one that kept pushing people to find a meaning for themselves. if that wasnt the case how come the western world did all the stuff they did? and his opinion of nihilism stems from the idea that there can be no facts cus information is always changing, which is kind of ironic consider that idea is also a fact itself. kierkegaard on the other hand claimed that society indirectly forces us to be same, therefore nobody is unique so we might as well not exist. which wasnt even true for his time, let alone today. while yes, society does directly and indirectly forces us to obey to its molds, there are more than plenty of people in all walks of life that defied it and managed to be successful. tbh if it wasnt for hegel, majority of 19-20th century thinkers would be pretty much non existant, and its especially the case for these guys. Nihilism doesn’t deny facts.It denies the emotions that are presented as facts.Im an individual I’m not a part of your collective havemind of thought.Which is why I think for my self.People are unique and everyone is different.But those differences don’t actually make any difference we just pretend like they matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, (NSW)jja209 said: Nihilism doesn’t deny facts.It denies the emotions that are presented as facts.Im an individual I’m not a part of your collective havemind of thought.Which is why I think for my self.People are unique and everyone is different.But those differences don’t actually make any difference we just pretend like they matter. except its not emotions that claim that theres a reason for things. its facts. and the guy who is considered the biggest definer of nihilism says quite otherwise, so i'd like to hear your authority that overrides his. if you dont care about that, then dont call yourself nihilist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinegulf Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 If nothing is meaningful, then you don't mind if I'll take all your stuff. Oh? Don't approve, why? Hunger is bad, agreed. (Unnecessary) Pain (cold) is also bad. Reducing pain and hunger is meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pinegulf said: If nothing is meaningful, then you don't mind if I'll take all your stuff. Oh? Don't approve, why? Hunger is bad, agreed. (Unnecessary) Pain (cold) is also bad. Reducing pain and hunger is meaningful. Oh the strawmaning.Yes I’m going to try to survive but that doesn’t mean it matters if I do or don’t. We have a purpose and that is so survive but their is no mistixal magical meaning behind it.Come up with a better reply next time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Zeclem said: except its not emotions that claim that theres a reason for things. its facts. and the guy who is considered the biggest definer of nihilism says quite otherwise, so i'd like to hear your authority that overrides his. if you dont care about that, then dont call yourself nihilist. You moralist are the ones that do present emotions as facts.Reason is reason and what is right and wrong or valuable.Good and bad.These things are not based on facts.Nihlism is nothing but the facts that puts the emotions aside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Tbh, based on reading I'm getting much more of a "pessimistic" vibe that you're just trying to pass off as nihilism. I feel like getting out a tiny violin for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: Tbh, based on reading I'm getting much more of a "pessimistic" vibe that you're just trying to pass off as nihilism. I feel like getting out a tiny violin for you. That’s called your assumption.i don’t care what your vibe is.Im not responsible for your emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, (NSW)jja209 said: That’s called your assumption.i don’t care what your vibe is.Im not responsible for your emotions. Perceiving your consistent "everything is meaningless" rhetoric as pessimism isn't emotional. Claiming it as such is a strawman. Perfectly possible to arrive at that conclusion through rational thought. Bitterly defending your stance and acting like a snowflake. Well, I'd say that that is an emotional response. And don't pretend you haven't. Yes, nihilism is an objective truth. Ultimately life is meaningless. The universe will end, humanity will die out, nothing I do today will make a difference. And what? That doesn't stop things having relevance to us today. Like you deciding to post this thread, where you can preach about how you're an individual, how you're special and everyone else isn't. Like I said, you just come off as someone being a bit of a downer, passing it off as nihilism because... bombast, at a guess. I'm not taking you seriously at all. That's my opinion, and if that bothers you... Well, I'm not responsible for your emotions. Edited February 11, 2019 by DeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: Yes, nihilism is an objective truth. That's debatable too. Does everything return to zero? Does everything truly end with no chance of return? Can anyone say for absolute certainty that nothing matters? For an objective truth that the TC seems to be trying to discuss there seem to be many questions that it is impossible to answer with any solid proof. For all we know we could die and then POOF we're in an endless field of spaghetti prancing about with the flying spaghetti monster. The only absolute truth is Memento Mori, we all will cease functioning as carbon based life forms, but anything after that is an impossible to fathom answer that everyone has different stances on (Read as: SUBJECTIVE OPINION). So no, I don't think that nihilism is an objective fact because there's nothing solid that can be used as hard evidence for it, in fact it negates the ability to even provide evidence for itself as it attempts to reduce everything to a point of no meaning or purpose. P.S This is more of a response to the thread than to you D, I just was using your quote to articulate a point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, (NSW)jja209 said: You moralist are the ones that do present emotions as facts.Reason is reason and what is right and wrong or valuable.Good and bad.These things are not based on facts.Nihlism is nothing but the facts that puts the emotions aside. except what did i try to pass anything as facts and were just based on emotions? that its humanities nature to seek a purpose? thats is very much a fact for every living thing, not just humanity. the whole goal of life is to survive and thrive by setting itself a purpose, or as biologists call it "ecological niche". thats why evolution does what evolution does. evolution is not "emotion" its very much a fact that its a thing and its reason is being approved by scientists for decades now. and nihilism is not just putting emotions aside at all. thats rationalism, and they are both very distinct ways of thinking. nihilism is claiming that life and existance has no value. thats not "putting emotions aside". you dont even know what philosophy you are claiming to champion. Edited February 11, 2019 by Zeclem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Aldain said: P.S This is more of a response to the thread than to you D, I just was using your quote to articulate a point. That's fine, your point is fair. It certainly can be debatable, although I'm fairly certain we'd be in breach of several guidelines if we start down the religious/afterlife track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: I'm fairly certain we'd be in breach of several guidelines if we start down the religious/afterlife track. Hence the flying spaghetti monster bit ;p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Years ago I was driving to work and spotted some graffiti. That's not so unusual, but it was in Latin and read "non omnis morirar". "Not all of me will die". That was written by Horace, over two thousand years ago. He was right when he wrote it, he had made a monument more lasting than bronze. Did he, and the empire that gave birth to him die and crumble into dust? Yes. But as he predicted, Libitina has not claimed all of him and a part of him lives on. If someone who famously backed the wrong side in a civil war, then threw down his arms and fled the field of battle into exile could achieve that, what's your excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinegulf Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, (NSW)jja209 said: Oh the strawmaning.Yes I’m going to try to survive but that doesn’t mean it matters if I do or don’t. We have a purpose and that is so survive but their is no mistixal magical meaning behind it.Come up with a better reply next time. It matters to you. I can prove it too: By stabbing your hand with something sharp. If pain is meaningless to you then it should not matter. (All the same, no?) I bet it is something you will not continue to do. Edit: After all, what is meaning if not rank-order of stuff to do instead of something else? Edited February 11, 2019 by Pinegulf Moar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xirka Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 A true nihilist would not make this post, there would be no point in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)jja209 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 7 hours ago, DeMonkey said: Perceiving your consistent "everything is meaningless" rhetoric as pessimism isn't emotional. Claiming it as such is a strawman. Perfectly possible to arrive at that conclusion through rational thought. Bitterly defending your stance and acting like a snowflake. Well, I'd say that that is an emotional response. And don't pretend you haven't. Yes, nihilism is an objective truth. Ultimately life is meaningless. The universe will end, humanity will die out, nothing I do today will make a difference. And what? That doesn't stop things having relevance to us today. Like you deciding to post this thread, where you can preach about how you're an individual, how you're special and everyone else isn't. Like I said, you just come off as someone being a bit of a downer, passing it off as nihilism because... bombast, at a guess. I'm not taking you seriously at all. That's my opinion, and if that bothers you... Well, I'm not responsible for your emotions. Dude if I was a snowflake you wouldn’t be here commenting.Your comments would have been deleted.But guess what your still here.Youre the one that sounds whiny in my comments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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