above level 30 cap? for frames..

[Benjiro_taichou]

i wish there was an option to break the 30 level cap for frames in a mini quest or something....  like a frame evolving lol...  improving its stats and skills...  like the paracesis getting to 40... 

also i would like a chrome color pallette shiny and chrome for any parts of the frame...  wanna make a pur gold frame lol :D    like the hyaku shiki in gundam zeta...   

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

They’re capped for Mastery Rank purposes.

and we’re not getting a Metallics color palettes. The textures are tied to the frames themselves not the color palettes.

[Birdframe_Prime]

While my friend here was a little blunt, he's actually right.

Warframes cap at 30 for the specific reason of getting you to farm up and add in both Reactors and Forma. It's an intentional limitation that makes modding fair. However... that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions to that rule. Just... not yet. You'll have to wait and see to find out of there is a frame that can actually do that.

As for the metallics, that's a completely different story. You see, Warframe's character models are done with a materials (or texture) map completely separately from their colour mapping.

This means that when you see metallics on a Warframe, they've been deliberately made metal first and all you're doing is colouring them, while anything else is another texture completely.

It's like this:

Spoiler

So unless you, personally, go in and create a Tennogen skin for an all-metallic Warframe... you're never going to be able to create an all-metallic Warframe ^^

[Shelusine]

Most mmo games release new progression upgrade twice or more a year as an easy way to keep the grinding alive but for some reason, warframe has never been a game that quickly instored new gear progressions within the game. I believe the last one was arcane and it was 2 years ago...

To be honest doing the next progression upgrade through levelling would sound really dull to me especially when I look at the paracetis. I really wouldn't want to level that way. That being said if a new modding system was unlocked in the next story progression that would involve levelling that way to 40 I would be all for it.

When I think of progression I always think of that shiny equipment window and it just never made sense to me that after 6 years the game still doesn't have enough prime mods to fill at least the basic modding parts or that there's no upgrade on outdated mods, especially auras. I really thought that they would surf on that umbral wave and introduce umbral or primed auras since they said that they didn't want to introduce umbral forma but looking at the roadmap no progression is to be expected for quite a long time.

For the metalics I think it's a good idea for some parts. A lot of skins have mismatching textures that make it difficult to put together. Thinking of mag deluxe halo that for some reason has 2 different textures that can't be matched color wise without looking weird.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

I think the paracesis is an exception because of the umbra mods. It is a sentient killer so umbra mods would make sense to add but instead of umbra slots(only for umbra) they made it reach 40. It is not a normal weapon like the others. So I have no problem with it. 

The rest, the other commenters have already covered. 

[Shaburanigud]

I think if the beyond option gives a cosmetic meaning only and no extra mod slots or capacity, I think it wouldn't be too bad. Like unique shoulder sigils for that sepcific warframe only. Each warframe having its own unique beyond mastery sigil.

We don't need it, but it would be a nice cosmetic option. 

[Arcira]

Doesn´t really matter anyway. The inflated amount of affinity you gain from doing things like Hydron or ESO renders the leveling experience obsolete.

In my opinion all missions should reward you with a good amount of free to spend affinity after you complete them. This way you would level your warframes and weapons by actually playing the game.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, Arcira said:

In my opinion all missions should reward you with a good amount of free to spend affinity after you complete them. This way you would level your warframes and weapons by actually playing the game.

You've managed to confuse me...

'you would level your warframes and weapons by playing the game' and the concept of 'spending excess affinity on frames that you didn't play the game with' are two concepts that are mutually exclusive.

You level your warframes and weapons by playing the game with them. Sticking new ones in the Arsenal and levelling them by spending your excess affinity, the excess from playing a fully levelled frame that is not them, is the opposite of that.

[Arcira]

 

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You've managed to confuse me...

'you would level your warframes and weapons by playing the game' and the concept of 'spending excess affinity on frames that you didn't play the game with' are two concepts that are mutually exclusive.

To be more specific: of cause farming endless missions is playing the game nonetheless I don´t think the current system is very engaging. Cool I got a new weapon guess I´m spending 10-20 min on Hydron then. Just as focus farm the amount of affinity you gain by doing normal stuff like bounties and the efficiency of farming hordes of enemies is very disproportionate in my opinion. For example it´s almost impossible to reach the daily focus cap with regular gameplay. You need to do very specific things like EOS, stealth affinity etc.

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You level your warframes and weapons by playing the game with them. Sticking new ones in the Arsenal and levelling them by spending your excess affinity, the excess from playing a fully levelled frame that is not them, is the opposite of that.

Maybe I didn´t explained it very well. You would gain the affinity for the weapons you carried in that mission not you gain affinity similar to something like endo or kuva to spend it on any weapon you want.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Arcira

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 minutes ago, Arcira said:

Cool I got a new weapon guess I´m spending 10-20 min on Hydron then.

Yes, but this is just choosing to be bored... It's literally picking the quick option because it's quick, and not actually playing the game.

The option is always there to go to these places, but you don't have to, you aren't forced to go to Hydron to level your weapons, and I've spent plenty of time just floating around as Zephyr with my new weapons to level them, because I know that anything new (for me at least) is far between and I can take my time. Heck, if I want to level something fast, I don't even go to Hydron. I take Banshee for one run at Adaro and abuse the Stealth Multiplier and my own game-sense to level it in a single four-to-five minute run.

I literally capped out my Focus system in early 2018 simply because I abused those kind of mechanics, and it bored me to tears. It's just an option that's there and you can level how you want to level.

23 minutes ago, Arcira said:

Maybe I didn´t explained it very well. You would gain the affinity for the weapons you carried in that mission not you gain affinity similar to something like endo or kuva to spend it on any weapon you want.

You do know that this already happens, right? At the end of any mission you get Bonus Affinity on everything you have equipped in direct proportion to what you did in that mission. That's what the yellow bars that appear after the blue bars are.

The exact point, in fact, of going to missions with only one weapon is that even the Bonus Affinity then only applies to that one weapon, often able to cap out a weapon even if it didn't cap when you finished earning the base Affinity for that run.

So why would you need any Affinity left over after a run to assign manually? It does it and assigns it automatically.

The only thing that doesn't happen is that it doesn't go over past rank 30, because you have to Forma and reset the item to re-level anyway. And if you want to get into the concept of holding on to affinity for that weapon so you can level it again after a Forma, that's an entirely different can of worms and even more lazy.

[Arcira]

19 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes, but this is just choosing to be bored... It's literally picking the quick option because it's quick, and not actually playing the game.

The option is always there to go to these places, but you don't have to, you aren't forced to go to Hydron to level your weapons, and I've spent plenty of time just floating around as Zephyr with my new weapons to level them, because I know that anything new (for me at least) is far between and I can take my time. Heck, if I want to level something fast, I don't even go to Hydron. I take Banshee for one run at Adaro and abuse the Stealth Multiplier and my own game-sense to level it in a single four-to-five minute run.

I literally capped out my Focus system in early 2018 simply because I abused those kind of mechanics, and it bored me to tears. It's just an option that's there and you can level how you want to level.

That´s true you don´t have to use this. The problem is things are balanced with these abusive possibilities in mind. After finishing the most important focus abilities I was going to continue passive focus farm and after I think it´s over a year by now I did very minor progress. In fact I recently started to do EOS in order to finally finish my focus tree and I did at least 10 times more progress compared to the last whole year. That´s just ridiculous and has nothing to do with choice anymore.

19 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You do know that this already happens, right? At the end of any mission you get Bonus Affinity on everything you have equipped in direct proportion to what you did in that mission. That's what the yellow bars that appear after the blue bars are.

The exact point, in fact, of going to missions with only one weapon is that even the Bonus Affinity then only applies to that one weapon, often able to cap out a weapon even if it didn't cap when you finished earning the base Affinity for that run.

So why would you need any Affinity left over after a run to assign manually? It does it and assigns it automatically.

The only thing that doesn't happen is that it doesn't go over past rank 30, because you have to Forma and reset the item to re-level anyway. And if you want to get into the concept of holding on to affinity for that weapon so you can level it again after a Forma, that's an entirely different can of worms and even more lazy.

The major part of the yellow affinity bar is in direct correlation with your blue one meaning most of it is affinity gained by killing enemies. It´s true you only get this by successfully finishing the mission but it´s far from the thing I did propose. The only thing I can think of that has some similarities is the bonus affinity for completing mission challenges.  But the bonus is very minor and negligible at best.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Arcira

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

The problem is things are balanced with these abusive possibilities in mind.

Indeed they are. Do you know how long it would take you to complete the entire Focus tree if you used my particular method of farming Focus (Stealth Multiplier exploitation with a Melee Banshee on Exterminates, using Eidolon Lenses, Naramon boost and an Affinity booster) if there was no daily Cap?

For reference, with the gains I was able to average it works out that a person using that can gain 1.2 Million Focus in an hour. Considering that the cap on total Focus is 52,660,819 to unlock everything including the Way Capacity that's... oh, 44 hours.

Around 44 hours. Two days for any Streamer that wanted a challenge of completing it in one hit. Two weeks for somebody that plays only two-to-three hours a day. Less than a week for an enthusiastic guy on his week off.

With the daily cap however, an MR 5 player would take around 192 Days at base (although if he also hit three Tri-dolon hunts per day that would drop down to 95 Days because Shards can be exchanged even after you hit cap). An MR 26 player would take 139 Days without the Shards and 81 with them.

So you see, even when you're hitting your daily, using any methods you want, DE even build in ways to go faster than that. I know a person that would hit three Night Cycles on Cetus every day (he had free time, I work, sucks for me) and was racking up 9 Tri-dolon hits. His turn-over for Focus was 375k from his Daily Cap, and then 945k from the Shards. At the rate he went, it only took him 30 days to cap his Focus after the Tridolon hunts were released (the average time at that rate is 40 days, but he'd already farmed some Focus before that point).

DE makes this game so that players have the option to go insanely fast if they try.

But.

Essential point to take from this: having that option is why we have caps. Specifically to limit how fast we can go without using the specific methods that DE puts in.

We don't earn more affinity per run that we can take home and allot manually because that's our limitation. We don't earn affinity we can apportion ourselves full-stop. The closest we can get to manually allotting our Affinity gains is to choose the method that tilts the rewards. If we want to level a Warframe, we kill things with the Warframe abilities for preference, a weapon for second choice, or soak it up from allies as a third choice (which gives us in sequence, 100% to the frame, 50% to the frame, 25% to the frame). If we want to level up a weapon, we equip only that weapon and soak up affinity from others as the first choice, or kill things with it for second choice (75% or 50% respectively).

But most importantly, we only get affinity for playing the mission. Affinity can't be stocked, stored or even not gained. It's a purely automatic function to prevent us from doing things any way except DE's way ^^

So yeah, if you don't use a Weapon, it doesn't get mastered, it doesn't level up. And that, my friend, is never going to change in Warframe, it's the whole mechanic of the Grind.

[Arcira]

5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Indeed they are. Do you know how long it would take you to complete the entire Focus tree if you used my particular method of farming Focus (Stealth Multiplier exploitation with a Melee Banshee on Exterminates, using Eidolon Lenses, Naramon boost and an Affinity booster) if there was no daily Cap?

For reference, with the gains I was able to average it works out that a person using that can gain 1.2 Million Focus in an hour. Considering that the cap on total Focus is 52,660,819 to unlock everything including the Way Capacity that's... oh, 44 hours.

Around 44 hours. Two days for any Streamer that wanted a challenge of completing it in one hit. Two weeks for somebody that plays only two-to-three hours a day. Less than a week for an enthusiastic guy on his week off.

With the daily cap however, an MR 5 player would take around 192 Days at base (although if he also hit three Tri-dolon hunts per day that would drop down to 95 Days because Shards can be exchanged even after you hit cap). An MR 26 player would take 139 Days without the Shards and 81 with them.

So you see, even when you're hitting your daily, using any methods you want, DE even build in ways to go faster than that. I know a person that would hit three Night Cycles on Cetus every day (he had free time, I work, sucks for me) and was racking up 9 Tri-dolon hits. His turn-over for Focus was 375k from his Daily Cap, and then 945k from the Shards. At the rate he went, it only took him 30 days to cap his Focus after the Tridolon hunts were released (the average time at that rate is 40 days, but he'd already farmed some Focus before that point).

DE makes this game so that players have the option to go insanely fast if they try.

But.

Essential point to take from this: having that option is why we have caps. Specifically to limit how fast we can go without using the specific methods that DE puts in.

We don't earn more affinity per run that we can take home and allot manually because that's our limitation. We don't earn affinity we can apportion ourselves full-stop. The closest we can get to manually allotting our Affinity gains is to choose the method that tilts the rewards. If we want to level a Warframe, we kill things with the Warframe abilities for preference, a weapon for second choice, or soak it up from allies as a third choice (which gives us in sequence, 100% to the frame, 50% to the frame, 25% to the frame). If we want to level up a weapon, we equip only that weapon and soak up affinity from others as the first choice, or kill things with it for second choice (75% or 50% respectively).

But most importantly, we only get affinity for playing the mission. Affinity can't be stocked, stored or even not gained. It's a purely automatic function to prevent us from doing things any way except DE's way ^^

So yeah, if you don't use a Weapon, it doesn't get mastered, it doesn't level up. And that, my friend, is never going to change in Warframe, it's the whole mechanic of the Grind.

I don´t really want to change it only make it more fair for people who arn´t interested in repetitive gameplay. After all that´s why they changed tower keys into relics in order to prevent player from doing orokin tower over and over again and get burned out.

Don´t get me wrong the usual methods would propably be the fastest way still but at least you don´t have to do it if you don´t want to. I don´t really see a disadvantage for people who like to do eso or adaro.

Also I think options to maximize your efficiency is good game design but it should never be several times as effective. This is a core problem warframe has in my opinion and it doesn´t only apply to affinity but things like armor scaling and weapon damage as well. The excessive imbalance between regular and optimized gameplay (I would go as far as to call it exploiting) is far from healthy for the game because as I said they need to balance the game around the most effective way to play and "casual" players are forced into a certain playstyle if they want to keep up with the content.

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

24 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The excessive imbalance between regular and optimized gameplay (I would go as far as to call it exploiting) is far from healthy for the game because as I said they need to balance the game around the most effective way to play and "casual" players are forced into a certain playstyle if they want to keep up with the content.

Now if we wanted to get onto that as a topic... heh, I could write you a dissertation on reworking the damage system and enemy scaling system so that the game rewarded skill equally with good modding and top-tier weapons.

Make it so that an auto-installed build on a precision gun like the regular Lato would be as effective at killing enemies if you were good at the game as the pure-status build on the Tigris Prime. So that enemies scale in a diminishing return fashion for EHP and that damage types were exactly as important as the status types, while also introducing actual difficulty in our enemies that was entirely free of 'bullet sponge' content. Where critical hits didn't fall off without status and where status effects were as rewarding across the board (so instead of just wanting to bypass defenses with one type, remove defenses with another, CC enemies with a third and half-health enemies with a fourth, leaving the other types pretty much unused, we would actually benefit from enemy debuffs and contextual damage buffs from all of them. And introduce a few new mechanics that were entirely based on making sure that viability was just a matter of skill, not a matter of stats.

But that's for another thread, I suppose ^^