ebrl Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said: And theres people who enjoy using Vauban and Wukong. That doesn’t make them great frames. There are people who enjoy making hilariously bad comparisons, too! This game truly has something for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, ebrl said: There are people who enjoy making hilariously bad comparisons, too! This game truly has something for everyone. I mean if you want me to come clean I’ll admit that Rev is better than Titania. But let’s be honest. That’s not saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 il y a 22 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit : I mean if you want me to come clean I’ll admit that Rev is better than Titania. But let’s be honest. That’s not saying much. Actually I would go as far to say that Revenant is better than almost 75% of our frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, JackHargreav said: Actually I would go as far to say that Revenant is better than almost 75% of our frames. I mean if your intent is to say wrong statements then you can say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 à l’instant, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit : I mean if your intent is to say wrong statements then you can say that. It only as much of my intent as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, JackHargreav said: Actually I would go as far to say that Revenant is better than almost 75% of our frames. That doesn't make him top tier though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 il y a 1 minute, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph a dit : That doesn't make him top tier though. Never really cared about frames being "top tier" (whatever that means) and never said he is. I only care about multi purpose solo frames. And for that role Revenant is a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, JackHargreav said: Actually I would go as far to say that Revenant is better than almost 75% of our frames. Nova Ivara Limbo Octavia Saryn Trinity Inaros Mesa Rhino Nidus Gara Ne Zha Oberon Harrow Volt Equinox Mag All frames off the top of my head better than Revenant. You could make a case that he is better than Oberon and maybe Mag, but that's doubtful. 75% is pushing it considerably. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 il y a 1 minute, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit : Nova Ivara Limbo Octavia Saryn Trinity Inaros Mesa Rhino Nidus Gara Ne Zha Oberon Harrow Volt Equinox Mag All frames off the top of my head better than Revenant. You could make a case that he is better than Oberon and maybe Mag, but that's doubtful. 75% is pushing it considerably. Eh... Some of these warframes aren't really better imo. Harrow, Mag, Saryn (Who is actually in my top 5), Nezha, Mesa, Nova aren't really the frames I would just take to every mission. I'm not saying they are bad or worse but to say that they are better? Nah. Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, JackHargreav said: Eh... Some of these warframes aren't really better imo. Harrow, Mag, Saryn (Who is actually in my top 5), Nezha, Mesa, Nova aren't really the frames I would just take to every mission. I'm not saying they are bad or worse but to say that they are better? Nah. Not really. Nezha is amazing now. You should really give him a second look. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 à l’instant, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph a dit : Nezha is amazing now. You should really give him a second look. Tried him out but he's just not for me. He's pretty fun and I like how his Warding Halo works also has a decent CC. But I just can't make him work. Definitely will keep him even if I'm not gonna use him too much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, JackHargreav said: Eh... Some of these warframes aren't really better imo. Harrow, Mag, Saryn (Who is actually in my top 5), Nezha, Mesa, Nova aren't really the frames I would just take to every mission. I'm not saying they are bad or worse but to say that they are better? Nah. Not really. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. Those are simply frames I could label atm who are widely considered better than him. I'll leave this topic alone for now, as Revenant has an almost cult following at this point in time, which I can relate to as a Limbo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 il y a 1 minute, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit : I'll leave this topic alone for now, as Revenant has an almost cult following at this point in time. Really? I dunno if I should consider that good or bad. But I kinda like the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said: Nova Ivara Limbo Octavia Saryn Trinity Inaros Mesa Rhino Nidus Gara Ne Zha Oberon Harrow Volt Equinox Mag All frames off the top of my head better than Revenant. You could make a case that he is better than Oberon and maybe Mag, but that's doubtful. 75% is pushing it considerably. You dare have the balls to list Limbo, a frame that makes people leave squads, be better than Revenant? Also, Oberon? Harrow? What is going on? Also Trinity is so incredibly obsolete now with Zenurik, Energize and Magus Elevate/Repair being things like come on, if you want a bless or EV machine, get Trinity as a specter. You also seem to have listed a good amount of frames that are good but fulfill either different tasks, or some tasks better than Revenant. So what exactly does "better" mean? Saryn doesn't even come close to Revenants tanking ability. Nezha can't hold a candle towards Revenant's roomclearing potential. Rev also tanks better than him. Mesa seems to have a way faster clear ability and also easier tanking (on things that aren't melee and are below high levels) but feels incomplete with only half a kit, her 2nd being useless without range (the damage buff is literally unnoticable) and her 1 just being useless. And Inaros lacks scaling when it comes to tanking. And excuse me but what were you thinking when listing Gara but not Frost? Or where is Nekros? Now i wouldn't go and say he's better than (insert percentage here) amount of frames since that'd be subjective and wrong as hell but he's pretty solid on his own. Now things like Wukong, Titania, Atlas or even Garuda (with scaling aoe dmg that is slow and barely helpful for anything that isn't long endurance runs and the rest of her kit being mediocre), then we might be talking since they seem to still be looking for a purpose to be played in this game. I'd mention Hydroid as well but unfortunately his looting augment keeps people from hating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 il y a 3 minutes, IceColdHawk a dit : You dare have the balls to list Limbo, a frame that makes people leave squads, be better than Revenant? Also, Oberon? Harrow? What is going on? Also Trinity is so incredibly obsolete now with Zenurik, Energize and Magus Elevate/Repair being things like come on, if you want a bless or EV machine, get Trinity as a specter. You also seem to have listed a good amount of frames that are good but fulfill either different tasks, or some tasks better than Revenant. So what exactly does "better" mean? Saryn doesn't even come close to Revenants tanking ability. Nezha can't hold a candle towards Revenant's roomclearing potential. Rev also tanks better than him. Mesa seems to have a way faster clear ability and also easier tanking (on things that aren't melee and are below high levels) but feels incomplete with only half a kit, her 2nd being useless without range (the damage buff is literally unnoticable) and her 1 just being useless. And Inaros lacks scaling when it comes to tanking. And excuse me but what were you thinking when listing Gara but not Frost? Or where is Nekros? Now i wouldn't go and say he's better than (insert percentage here) amount of frames since that'd be subjective and wrong as hell but he's pretty solid on his own. Now things like Wukong, Titania, Atlas or even Garuda (with scaling aoe dmg that is slow and barely helpful for anything that isn't long endurance runs and the rest of her kit being mediocre), then we might be talking since they seem to still be looking for a purpose to be played in this game. I'd mention Hydroid as well but unfortunately his looting augment keeps people from hating him. Jezus, dude. There is no need to get this tense. Also the percentage was just really a little bit of an unserious mocking cause sometimes I just like to play around with others. Be a little bit nonsensical for no reason. (Though I still think Revenant is actually good) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, JackHargreav said: Jezus, dude. There is no need to get this tense. Sorry but Gara instead of Frost is a no-go. I should've gone harder actually....okay okay i'm just kidding. 12 minutes ago, JackHargreav said: Also the percentage was just really a little bit of an unserious mocking cause sometimes I just like to play around with others. Be a little bit nonsensical for no reason. (Though I still think Revenant is actually good) So i was being on your side all for nothing? Welp...maybe the anti-revenant people are more cooperative comrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 il y a 1 minute, IceColdHawk a dit : Sorry but Gara instead of Frost is a no-go. I should've gone harder actually....okay okay i'm just kidding. So i was being on your side all for nothing? Welp...maybe the anti-revenant people are more cooperative comrades. Nah. Actually I appreciate your enthusiasm. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLemon123 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) Regardless of dissenting opinions regarding his overall viability / meta relevance, I'm pretty sure we can all at LEAST agree that allies shouldn't be able to damage thralls. Sure, you can defend his kit all you like, regardless of its obvious weaknesses and its longstanding issues, but you cannot (in good faith) argue that thralls being suceptible to team damage (which is to say, players OTHER than the revenant user) is a good mechanic OR one that should remain unchanged. No, I personally don't enjoy the idea that the eidolon frame has mind control. No, I don't particularly like the synergies linked to it, in functionality or application. But regardless of any of that, enthrall still fails to deliver on what DE themselves intended for the ability to do, and I quote : "ENTHRALL THRALLS: We have made changes to have Thralls have more value in life AND death - just as Revenant did. The general rule Thralls will follow is they provide CC in Life, Damage in Death. The goal is simply to have an easy supply of Thralls to make use of in both Life and Death." So where's the problem exactly? Well, for one, the CC aspect is 100% reliant on thralls sticking around long enough for you to make use of them, which simply doesn't happen in party play for reasons we've already covered (full team friendly fire). As for the "making use of thralls" part, it's plagued by the very same problem, that being teammates. And before anyone says it, playing solo is NOT the answer. Frames like Harrow and nidus have a somewhat harder time doing their job when allies (especially those focused on mass-murder) are around, but they can still do it. Revenant, on the other hand, does not get that opportunity, relying entirely upon the kindness/incompetence of his team to make use of one of his core abilities, which I'm confident no one could really view as anything but an awful, nonsensical design decision made purely for the sake of attempting to keep nyx relevant. Thing is, nyx's 1 got buffed, and there is no longer any reason for rev's 1 to be gimped so that another may keep their shtick. Besides, how hard of a change would this be to implement? As for the second bit (that being damage), it's just as Inefficient : low range, extremely low duration and low base damage. As for the damage type, it is made up of entirely puncture and impact, meaning its numbers will start freefalling against anything with armor above level 60. I still don't get why they didn't take his 4's "damage adaptation" property and carry it over. Hell, at this point, I think even something like making it into radiation damage (the usually sentient-related element) would at least help it be somewhat useful. Edited February 11, 2019 by JohnLemon123 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenMaster Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 17 hours ago, Genesix6 said: My only complaint about him is that is not the true eidolon frame we deserve. He should have his own exalted archgun like the terralyst You mean the machinegun that thing does? Yes he should have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 You know when you really think about it. Phantasma is a more faithful representation of Eidolons than Revenant is. And it’s just a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Il y a 8 heures, JohnLemon123 a dit : Regardless of dissenting opinions regarding his overall viability / meta relevance, I'm pretty sure we can all at LEAST agree that allies shouldn't be able to damage thralls. Sure, you can defend his kit all you like, regardless of its obvious weaknesses and its longstanding issues, but you cannot (in good faith) argue that thralls being suceptible to team damage (which is to say, players OTHER than the revenant user) is a good mechanic OR one that should remain unchanged. No, I personally don't enjoy the idea that the eidolon frame has mind control. No, I don't particularly like the synergies linked to it, in functionality or application. But regardless of any of that, enthrall still fails to deliver on what DE themselves intended for the ability to do, and I quote : "ENTHRALL THRALLS: We have made changes to have Thralls have more value in life AND death - just as Revenant did. The general rule Thralls will follow is they provide CC in Life, Damage in Death. The goal is simply to have an easy supply of Thralls to make use of in both Life and Death." So where's the problem exactly? Well, for one, the CC aspect is 100% reliant on thralls sticking around long enough for you to make use of them, which simply doesn't happen in party play for reasons we've already covered (full team friendly fire). As for the "making use of thralls" part, it's plagued by the very same problem, that being teammates. And before anyone says it, playing solo is NOT the answer. Frames like Harrow and nidus have a somewhat harder time doing their job when allies (especially those focused on mass-murder) are around, but they can still do it. Revenant, on the other hand, does not get that opportunity, relying entirely upon the kindness/incompetence of his team to make use of one of his core abilities, which I'm confident no one could really view as anything but an awful, nonsensical design decision made purely for the sake of attempting to keep nyx relevant. Thing is, nyx's 1 got buffed, and there is no longer any reason for rev's 1 to be gimped so that another may keep their shtick. Besides, how hard of a change would this be to implement? As for the second bit (that being damage), it's just as Inefficient : low range, extremely low duration and low base damage. As for the damage type, it is made up of entirely puncture and impact, meaning its numbers will start freefalling against anything with armor above level 60. I still don't get why they didn't take his 4's "damage adaptation" property and carry it over. Hell, at this point, I think even something like making it into radiation damage (the usually sentient-related element) would at least help it be somewhat useful. For me It's whatever. I'm a solo player so Idon't really care if teammates can kill the entrhalled enemies or not simply because I don't have teammates. With that said I can still say that enemies dying from teammates doesn't make too much sense however making them only vulnerable to Revenant or anything like that wouldn't fix the problem. The 4th ability for me is fine. I don't want Revy to be another press 4 to win which he still can be. (Someone did an hour run with just that ability on Mot) I would just leave it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GameNerd300 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Revvy boi is aight. I used him A LOT when I first built him. Other frames stole my attention, but I take him out for a stroll every now and again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said: Nova Ivara Limbo Octavia Saryn Trinity Inaros Mesa Rhino Nidus Gara Ne Zha Oberon Harrow Volt Equinox Mag All frames off the top of my head better than Revenant. You could make a case that he is better than Oberon and maybe Mag, but that's doubtful. 75% is pushing it considerably. That is a fine list, but what exactly are they better at than Rev? That list is just a mash up of 17 good frames with abilities that are so far apart between eachother. Ivara, Trinity, Harrow, Gara, Inaros, Limbo and Nidus are prime examples of frames that are only good under certain circumstances, at one specific thing or in specific content. Rev is a different story because he is well rounded. Most of the frames on the list scales poorly aswell. Nova, Octavia, Saryn, Mesa, Nezha, Oberon, Volt, Mag, Frost and Rev easily make the top 10 list. It doesnt really matter what content you bring either of them to, they shine no matter what. Most of them will however get outscaled by higher level content earlier than others. edit: I'm also deeply concerned regarding the Oberon and Mag comment, aswell as having Gara on the list and no Frost. Edited February 11, 2019 by SneakyErvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Skiller115 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Revenant is my favorite frame for abertrations Everytime I see the mission pop up with power boost for him I bring my boy in Everytime! I wish he had more charges when using normal power strength and wish his 1 wasn't non sequiter compared to his whole kit! Nevertheless he's a beast easily turns high level Graneer missions into a joke with his Mesmer Skin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modeaus Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 What the hell does 'better' actually mean? To me Nova is better than every other frame because she's massively more mobile, she's fast, and I love how she plays. So Nova is obviously best frame right? I didn't play Rev until just this weekend. For some reason I slammed 5 forma on him and started using him. He's great for tough content. He tanks as well as Chroma used to (maybe better), has good soft CC, and can clear trash as fast as any 'press 4 to win' frame. He can be the squad hardbody but he lacks damage. He's a great solo frame and good for carrying a team through low & mid level content (star chart & sorties) but lacks the power to maintain a kill rate for something like ESO or long Kuva runs. ymmv with weapon choice. He doesn't really fill a niche and you could do much the same job with Rhino, Chroma, or Inaros, pros & cons for each are pretty well known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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