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crabclub

Ability variations

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First of all pardon my English.
I have an idea.
What if every warframe have had several ability options instead of their standard 1,2,3 and 4?
Imagine different abilities, different playstyles/builds to suit everyone, flexibility and overall more fun.

edit. Not like augments. These are to enhance the warframe's abilities.
i am talking about a complete new set of abilities.
E.G. ; for Vauban. 10 new abilities for us to select, like; one that does this or one that does that... imagination is key 😛
This will build character and make people feel like they are building something for them personally rather than using the same. We humans love customizing things to our liking and we become more fond of them plus we feel deeper connection with them so why not in warframe too?
EDIT #2; Thanks to Birdflame_prime's comment I have understood how flawed my idea is. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Edited by crabclub
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They have a hard enough time balancing a single kit within a frame. 

Given the way this game is, there will be 1 right combination for each frame anyway jumping back to 1 kit. Might as well just design the frame with that 1 set of abilities. 

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Would be really a good improvement. Doesn´t need to be anything fancy either. just so much your favourite warframes arn´t totally worthless in certain scenarios.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

They have a hard enough time balancing a single kit within a frame. 

Given the way this game is, there will be 1 right combination for each frame anyway jumping back to 1 kit. Might as well just design the frame with that 1 set of abilities. 

In theory that´s true on the other hand we are talking about warframe. No offense but obviously balance isn´t the main focus of the game to put it mildly.

With the second argument I don´t agree though. I think there are many different types of abilities and if you are limited to 4 slots you need to adjust them depending on the mission you are doing. The most common I can think of would be cc/damage (single target and aoe)/durability/sustain/mobility/buff and some more specific things like loot, invisibility, etc.

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6 hours ago, Arcira said:

In theory that´s true 

It's been proven time and again in this game, it's not like it's just on paper. 

7 hours ago, Arcira said:

balance isn´t the main focus of the game

And yet it's a common complaint brought up by players. The discrepancy between the overly effective frames and weapons, and the marginally usable.

7 hours ago, Arcira said:

if you are limited to 4 slots you need to adjust them depending on the mission you are doing

And that's what augments are for. Yet, more evidence to support my claim. Half of them barely serve a purpose, whereas many others are considered essentials due to unbalance within the kit and overall better than not having them equipped. 

Those have led towards popular or meta builds more than creating diversity in options. Many frames and weapons are so powerful that there is absolutely no reason to heavily change build according to the mission. 

How many people actually take off Corrosive Protection when running high level Corpus missions? We're strong enough to defeat it even with the wasted aura. 

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

It's been proven time and again in this game, it's not like it's just on paper. 

And yet it's a common complaint brought up by players. The discrepancy between the overly effective frames and weapons, and the marginally usable.

And that's what augments are for. Yet, more evidence to support my claim. Half of them barely serve a purpose, whereas many others are considered essentials due to unbalance within the kit and overall better than not having them equipped. 

Those have led towards popular or meta builds more than creating diversity in options. Many frames and weapons are so powerful that there is absolutely no reason to heavily change build according to the mission. 

How many people actually take off Corrosive Protection when running high level Corpus missions? We're strong enough to defeat it even with the wasted aura.  

That´s the point. Obviously this isn´t going to change so there shouldn´t be a problem with creating new abilities. After all people are constantly asking for rewards and in response we get a whole lot of useless stuff but here and there things like Adaptation or Magus Lockdown which are without question pretty overpowered but rewarding nonetheless.

With the same strategy they could add a bunch of new abilities and augments and who knows maybe there will be things that make warframes like Vauban, Wukon or Ember usefull again.

 

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Not like augments. These are to enhance the warframe's abilities.
i am talking about a complete new set of abilities.
E.G. ; for Vauban. 10 new abilities for us to select, like; one that does this or one that does that... imagination is key 😛
This will build character and make people feel like they are building something for them personally rather than using the same. We humans love customizing things to our liking and webecome more fond of them plus we feel deeper connection with them so why not in warframe too? 

Edited by crabclub

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Yeah no, let's not prolong Warframe development any longer and making balance damn near impossible. 4 abilities are more than enough.

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I think that would raise too many more questions about which abilities are fitting to which frames. At that point you may as well make your frame choice purely aesthetic. I think because they've already been doing ability sets on a per frame basis they should just continue the way they're going. Otherwise you may as well merge some of the stealth classes, some of the tanks, etc. More augments could be neat though. A lot of people suggest redesigns for abilities, but unfortunately a lot of them are for abilities I actually like. Instead of changing them entirely, maybe just make an augment mod that changes it to a different variation of that ability. For example: I'd like a version of Valkyr's Ripline that lets you swing a little bit, instead of just acting as a linear elastic band. But maybe other people like the Ripline in its current form. So if I were to suggest adding that, it seems smart to just add it as a version of the ability, rather than completely swapping out something that other people might like.

Edited by Gnohme

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10 hours ago, Arcira said:

In theory that´s true on the other hand we are talking about warframe. No offense but obviously balance isn´t the main focus of the game to put it mildly.

'Balance' is perhaps the wrong word here, it stands in for 'bug-fixing the crap out of every single frame interaction and variable every single time a new one is introduced'. There is so much work that goes in to just make sure even 4 new abilities don't break the game, as in literally break, crash or otherwise prevent people from actually playing. Let's not make this multiplicatively as hard.

3 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I second this. I mean, we have to run out of Warframe ideas at some point.

I would rather them run out of Warframe ideas after giving 4 abilities out per Warframe, than have them trying to use the ideas they already have and being unable to give them abilities because they're given every single variable of a Fire ability to Ember and Nezha, or every single Poison ability to Saryn.

We literally wouldn't have a frame coming out like Hildryn if all of those functions had been given to Mag instead.

So...

14 hours ago, crabclub said:

Imagine different abilities, different playstyles/builds to suit everyone, flexibility and overall more fun.

The point to consider is that Warframes are Builds. Much like a Gear Set in another game, you equip a different Warframe in order to get access to that type of kit.

Loki, Ash, Ivara and Octavia can be considered four different builds of a Stealth character. Loki is a Stealth build that plays with enemy aggro and with an infinitely scaling function of removing enemy damage sources. Ash is a Stealth build that focuses less on Stealth than Loki, but brings higher mobility and greater direct damage. Ivara is a build for long term Stealth with low mobility but even higher single-target damage than Ash, foregoing the damage potential to multiple targets. And Octavia is the build for becoming part god... I mean... for a balance of Stealth and sacrificing a bit of mobility and direct damage to create enemy aggro control and massively scaling Potential Damage (based on enemy input).

You've also got now four builds for Melee Ability users, with Excalibur, Valkyr, Wukong and Baruuk. You can build two of them for projectile-based damage, one is the higher damage, the other is the wider range of effect, while the first has a single form of CC while the second has less CC in return for massive damage mitigation and enemy damage source removal. The other two are built for close-range melee, while one has incredibly good critical scaling and an ability designed to grant conditional immortality for a relatively low cost, and the other has functionally total immortality and Life Steal for a higher cost.

Frames are builds, that's why we have some that overlap.

It's far better to have more choices of actual build, overall, by creating new frames with new specific interactions with their own limited kit, interactions that are specifically more powerful because of their individual combination making them stand out, than trying to give existing frames multiple abilities that would then all have to work with each other and would still produce 'meta' builds anyway.

Plus, as I mentioned at the start; Warframe abilities are tricky things. Every time they introduce even just one frame with 4 new skills, they have to check it against the 4 skills of every other existing frame to make sure there's no bugs that have been introduced. It would only multiply that task by as many other abilities on top if you started adding in more abilities per frame now.

To be fair, if you started the game off with only the 8 frames, as they did, and simply added in new abilities for those 8 frames over time (the way Anthem plans to do for its Javelins), that would have worked. As it is... no. We have 36 base Warframes. Adding in the option for mix-and-matching multiple new abilities on all of them... impossibly difficult task.

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I wish De had not done away with four extra slots for abilities from year 1-2...they probably should have just locked them behind a specific mod classification like exilus mods so new variations could have been introduced like the syndicate mods...while negating the added benefit of 4 extra slots for corrupted mods and the such...

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2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

We literally wouldn't have a frame coming out like Hildryn if all of those functions had been given to Mag instead.

So...

Great point, tbh

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