Moderators cant properly handle necro'd threads, deleted my newer thread. This one also completely pointless, now...

[CazadorDeWulf]

This thread is old. I don't know why the other users brought it back, I've made a new one and I have no intention to have both posts bumped ad nauseum. Thanks. Please delete or give users the option to delete their own threads, maybe.

Looks like the moderators deleted the newer thread. Neat.

Edited February 17, 2019 by CazadorDeWulf

[Ragingwasabi]

no way. this is a gun from thousands of years in the future. semi auto doing more dmg is a cool idea, and i would want them to keep it.

 

also the trigger lock sucks. i hate it too but its a game mechanic implemented for balance.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Ragingwasabi

[CazadorDeWulf]

4 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

no way. this is a gun from thousands of years in the future. semi auto doing more dmg is a cool idea, and i would want them to keep it.

 

also the trigger lock sucks. i hate it too but its a game mechanic implemented for balance.

I noted in the section of suggested semi-auto changes that Cr Ch goes up a bunch in order to maintain exactly that, sir. Higher-tier crits could elevate this weapon dramatically, especially vs. Eidolons, while keeping in-theme with what I had suggested. So it would be BETTER. And all things in the future are going to be, in part, based on the successful designs of the past.

[Teliko_Freedman]

Firing in burstfire is faster than the full auto on this weapon.

I want the full auto to be faster otherwise it's a useless mode.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

Tiberon is my go to gun.  I use auto-fire for low level enemies and single fire for the higher level stuff.   I dont remember what mods I use... I dont have a riven.   

But I do tier 5 fortuna/poe with that gun on single fire.  Without the crits auto-fire just doesnt cut it.  

I never use burst first.  If I was going to buff the gun it would be burst mode,  slightly smaller crit chance than single fire,  but with enough status to make it easily hit 100% that would make it interesting,  crit mode, status mode,  trash mode.   

But overall I have always loved the Tiberon in both normal and prime!!  The audio for Tib prime is sweet.  Its a very beautiful gun.  I feel like it is pretty perfect the way it is.  

If they are going to work on a gun their are MUCH better candidates.   Panthera/Gorgon

[CazadorDeWulf]

I want to discuss the weapon with the understanding that there are over 200 primary weapons to choose from, all of them with their own style. Especially automatic rifles, those are the most common.

I believe, strongly, that the kinds of players that prefer to use any of the automatic rifle variants over the current "meta", such as Catchmoon, Tombfinger, Arca Plasmor, Amprex, Ignis Wraith, and Rubico Prime, will be players that want to invoke some nostalgia of other video games, or real life. Let me tell you, I like me some Armalite.

Do you, as a player, know what this feeling is? Did you prefer the assault rifle over the sniper rifle in Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc? If you didn't play those games, I'll give you and interpretation of the style of combat that is loved by the frequent users of these weapons:

There is no reasonable distance in which I should be unable to hit my target. There is enough ammunition ready to fire that will surely save my life against the current predictable odds. I have ease of transporting this device. It fires rapidly and readily enough that I can entrust my life in those sharp moments to the behavior of this engineering. I do not have to wait for a complex action to cycle to fire follow up shots. Lastly, single shots can be sufficient for a kill, if well placed enough. With these truths, I can focus solely on the battle at hand, administrative tasks such as reloading requiring no cognition, reserved for the enemy.

It is with this understanding that I am drawn to Tiberon Prime, which acts as a fantastic proxy for what feels like an M16A2. I just love it, with its 42 rounds of highly-accurate, crit-potent fire. But, this is but one of the fire modes! Yes... the other two are there, but there are absolutely pointless in this weapon, and function as a distracting gimmick with no real use in Warframe. Here's why.

Automatic mode reduces the hell out of DPS(CC and CD) to make the weapon more of a status-inflicting weapon. That's right, changing the fire mode completely alters the ammunition type in every way, for the worse. Now, if you actually wanted more status over the incredible potency of damage that this weapon offers, there are better automatic status weapons, and ones that fire much MUCH faster in automatic mode. Tiberon P's automatic fire feels like it is dramatically held back, due to the other fire modes being of a theme and gimmick. "It's a different mode, it should provide a statistical difference that will entice players to use the weapon" This isn't how it works, for people who want an assault rifle, especially minmaxers who don't care about the feeling of the weapon itself.

Semi-Auto could be better by merely buffing the fire rate to match the fastest any reasonable gamer can click their mouse. I can click almost twice as fast as mine allows me to(with +45% fire rate), and as a person who's fired weapons and played games etc, basically a fanboy of the thing that inspired this weapon and class of weapons in its entirety, this is a turn-off for Semi-Auto. I don't care if it is more damage per shot. I would want the only difference in going to Semi-Auto to be that I have to manually click each shot. That is the point of the selector switch; sometimes you only want one shot to come out.

Burst-Mode has an artificial delay between bursts, because... I don't know why. But in real life, burst-mode modifies the action to end with the weapon in battery for another trigger pull after the three shots... in Warframe, Tiberon Prime, and a handful of other burst weapons(all?) are designed with clearly no knowledge from their designer about how weapons actually work, and as a result, all of the "Assault Rifle" archetypes in this game feel kind of bad. It's 2019, and there are so many video games with super refined gameplay around these kinds of guns. Didn't the developers ever play those?

tl;dr I don't care about the statistical difference between my fire mode, I care more that the fire modes make no sense and only one becomes useful depending on the mods you build on it. Even then, it represents a thing we should all be familiar with IRL poorly and perhaps as a result, most people stay away from it in favor of clearly more accessible options.

[taiiat]

if you don't care about the numbers, then is there really anything to talk about? Semi-Auto on Tiberon Prime has a low-ish Rate of Fire because it deals a lot more Damage than... well, basically any other Semi-Auto Weapon that isn't a Sniper Rifle, Et Cetera.
while sure, with Primed Shred or Speed Trigger, 

Burst Weapons in Warframe don't allow you to oversample, you need to be in sync with your Weapon. so.... get in sync with it. don't oversample. it's really that simple.

 

none of the Fire Modes lack capability to be useful - they're just going to provide you different options. even the basically pointless Auto-fire with its extreme Status weighting, still deals decent Damage. with the Hybrid Mod Loadout that anyone should be using with Tiberon Prime, every Fire Mode is plenty effective, and all of them offer a sufficient amount of Critical or Status prowess.
ultimately i'm not really sure what this Thread is supposed to be about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[peterc3]

Why are you mentioning the Riven dispo in the title, when it has nothing to do with the rest of what you wrote?

[DrBorris]

Counter Argument: How a weapon feels is mostly subjective, trying to come up with a logical rational is pointless as some people will enjoy it despite what logic says. 

 

I enjoy the feel of Tiberon Prime; burst, semi and even auto. Or is my subjective opinion on a subjective matter irrelevant? 

[Drachnyn]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb CazadorDeWulf:

tl;dr I don't care about the statistical difference between my fire mode, I care more that the fire modes make no sense and only one becomes useful depending on the mods you build on it. Even then, it represents a thing we should all be familiar with IRL poorly and perhaps as a result, most people stay away from it in favor of clearly more accessible options.

So what changes do you suggest to the fire modes? I am having troubles understanding what you think is wrong with the burst mode and how you think it should be changed.

[CazadorDeWulf]

If you don't understand and need me to explain further I believe you did not read the post at all and only scanned for information relevant to your basis of opinion about the weapon.

I want a gun that feels more like the weapon class it is trying to represent; see topic title. How that feels is described. Please take the time to read these things.

[Drachnyn]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb CazadorDeWulf:

If you don't understand and need me to explain further I believe you did not read the post at all and only scanned for information relevant to your basis of opinion about the weapon.

I want a gun that feels more like the weapon class it is trying to represent; see topic title. How that feels is described. Please take the time to read these things.

Wow that is loaded. And I have read the entire thing. It isn't all that clear to me so please if you could break your post down to what specific changes you want for the fire modes that would be very nice. I understand that it very clear for you what you want but it isn't for me.

To me it seems there is a whole lot in your initial post that doesn't need to be said, where you could instead get straight to the point.

[CazadorDeWulf]

10 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Wow that is loaded. And I have read the entire thing. It isn't all that clear to me so please if you could break your post down to what specific changes you want for the fire modes that would be very nice. I understand that it very clear for you what you want but it isn't for me.

To me it seems there is a whole lot in your initial post that doesn't need to be said, where you could instead get straight to the point.

Okay, you claim to have read the post. Here are the points that answer your initial question:

 

13 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

That's right, changing the fire mode completely alters the ammunition type in every way, for the worse. Now, if you actually wanted more status over the incredible potency of damage that this weapon offers, there are better automatic status weapons, and ones that fire much MUCH faster in automatic mode. Tiberon P's automatic fire feels like it is dramatically held back, due to the other fire modes being of a theme and gimmick.

 

13 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

Burst-Mode has an artificial delay between bursts,

 

13 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

I would want the only difference in going to Semi-Auto to be that I have to manually click each shot. That is the point of the selector switch; sometimes you only want one shot to come out

With those points about Tiberon Prime in mind, look at the stuff that was extra in my post, the stuff you would prefer I didn't include: 

 

13 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

I want to discuss the weapon with the understanding that there are over 200 primary weapons to choose from, all of them with their own style. Especially automatic rifles, those are the most common.

I believe, strongly, that the kinds of players that prefer to use any of the automatic rifle variants over the current "meta", such as Catchmoon, Tombfinger, Arca Plasmor, Amprex, Ignis Wraith, and Rubico Prime, will be players that want to invoke some nostalgia of other video games, or real life. Let me tell you, I like me some Armalite.

Do you not know what I mean, when I explain that this weapon's fire modes make no sense due to how real life works and that real life + other video games do this sort of mechanic a whole lot better, due to accuracy, familiarity, and the applicability of the following truths, given Stoner's brilliant engineering: 

 

13 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

There is no reasonable distance in which I should be unable to hit my target. There is enough ammunition ready to fire that will surely save my life against the current predictable odds. I have ease of transporting this device. It fires rapidly and readily enough that I can entrust my life in those sharp moments to the behavior of this engineering. I do not have to wait for a complex action to cycle to fire follow up shots. Lastly, single shots can be sufficient for a kill, if well placed enough. With these truths, I can focus solely on the battle at hand, administrative tasks such as reloading requiring no cognition, reserved for the enemy.

It is with this understanding that I am drawn to Tiberon Prime

I hope this helps to answer the question, but call it loaded, that is nice. I did explain.

[Loza03]

I enjoy the weapon. The weapon to me feels fine - meaty and heavy, compared to something like a Prisma Grakata. Whilst I prefer Battacor and Telos Boltor myself, I do still like using the weapon.

I also quite like how the different modes have different stats. It makes the weapon feel more versatile. Semi is good in status-immune situations, full auto works against larger groups and burst is for heavier targets.

I also don't particularly care about making weapons in Warframe 'realistic', past making them feel physical. So the Tiberon Prime not behaving like a real-world weapon really isn't a deal-breaker for me.

[Xaxma]

I use my Tiberon P almost exclusively for the auto mode because it's great crit damage makes for strong slash procs when built for Hunter Munition and hybrid.

Bite me.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

i just came up with a energyshield and reload functions for the all the tiberon users, i feel like it could use some optional modifications, and augments that add secondary fire and make reloading interesting, holding the reload function to change the style of the firing mode to accelerate mixed in with burst, semi, and flame. Maybe a mag-change or super bullet with a small aoe can be configured, its named after a shark after all, asuming Tiberon translates into Sharkbites darts and spines make for some interesting ways to stop enemies, maybe the weapon just needs some destiny mechanic to bounce shots from the floor to cause advanced abrasions, chemical lightning rounds can be already attached but not calling up a giant blackmage bolt or zap, the closest we have to that is volt, but i was going for a heads up bullet that instead of bursting would stab and stop enemies like reverse nezha speres with poisonous toxins however we could cause critical damage to ensue, and maybe a flashbang, these are just some useful technipyra that i hope gets added into all the versions of the tiberon weapons, theres not enough augments for the only ones i've seen are syndicate and i have yet to find a riven mod or ask, because i fear that without these suggestions or your comments the tiberon will remain a half interesting weapon with much potential for expansion, also worth note, the gearslots could also be used in the future of combat to control the types of mags and temporary picups you find or craft/receive, say you scavenge a locker with flame munitions or you scrap a bunch of 6's that deal ice damage, some to keep, some are blue, some temps. What matters is putting the gearwheel and reload functions to better amounts, even the melee weapons dont have any reload functions, which makes weapons like the gunblade feel less useful, gunblade users are stuck with melee mods even though their weapons are half pistols/machine/shotgunrifles, i think its fair to let them see that some of those mods have escaped for them to use as submelee stance reinforcers, the stances also lack passive and latent or bonuses, so i hope someone can take these to a specialist.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

On 2019-01-08 at 2:50 PM, CazadorDeWulf said:

I absolutely 100% agree that each fire-mode has its purpose, or rather a situation where one mode is superior in clearing out enemies or taking out tough enemies, etc, than another. However, Full-Auto has been absolutely lack luster in every game I've brought mine into, and I've got a fantastic Riven for it! The problem stems from how severe the penalties to nearly every aspect of the gun are, when Full-Auto fire mode is selected. It's almost as though the design decision was based on "full-auto just being too good"? 

I believe Full-Auto should be changed in the following manners:
 

1. Fire rate raised to 600 rounds per minute/10 rounds per second from 500 rpm/8.33 rps
   (Reasoning): Damage per second cannot keep up vs. other modes, and the additional recoil induced should feel warranted.
    
2. Recoil reduced by 25%, or takes many more shots to lose shot control
   (Reasoning): if a three-round burst fired in Burst-Fire at nearly twice the cyclic rate barely
   budges the shooter, a three-round burst in Full-Auto mode at a lower cyclic rate definitely wouldn't.
   This logic stems from firing actual rifles of various caliber and at all three fire modes. Look it up if you're skeptical!)
    
3. Critical Damage reduced, Critical Chance raised, Status normalized between all modes
   (Reasoning): We're changing fire-modes, not ammunition. The implication is that Single-Fire somehow lobs a stronger bullet.
   This makes no sense. No firearm fundamentally becomes deadlier by limiting fire rate. More controllable, yes.
   There are other weapons with fire-modes that change properties without a consistent theme or logic.
    

I believe Burst-Fire should be changed in the following manners:
 

1. Remove delay between burst
   (Reasoning): I've never seen a weapon with Burst-Fire capabilities in the real world that
   had a mechanism for locking the trigger, preventing the shooter from firing altogether, after the action finished cycling.
   This is potential suicide; it doesn't exist in known, successful firearms because it endangers people:
   Going to fire your gun again and it not working?
   
   For reference, the real-world delay between trigger pulls depends on the cycling of the action,
   meaning after the third shot, the action resets and the trigger becomes live again.
   This ought to be the fundamental principle built into this weapon, since it clearly is inspired by the modern day "Assault Rifle".
    
2. Add progressive recoil after repeated fire
   (Reasoning): Recoil doesn't seem to affect aim meaningfully when firing in Burst-Mode due to the delay between trigger pulls.
   It is very aggressive on the third round fired, though, so if the delay is removed, it would need to be fixed as well.
    

I believe Single-Fire should be changed in the following manners:
 

1. Dramatic Critical Hit Chance increase
   (Reasoning): This keeps the damage output on this fire-mode superior while adhering to the idea that you're shooting better in this mode and not harder, faster, stronger.
    
2. Fire rate kept just shy of Full-Auto mode
   (Reasoning): The penalty of Single-Fire is just that. You have to click/pull the trigger again to fire successive shots.
   I do not believe this weapon, with select-fire, needs the innately slowest one to be additionally nerfed, as it
   requires us to wear our computer mice down at 150% rate due to the old,
   "Oh I clicked too fast after firing a shot even though clearly the gun has finished cycling,
   like, it can't fool me, I saw it cycling at 900 rpm a second ago!"

The tl;dr of this: Tiberon Prime is clearly inspired by the modern AR, in function. Now, if it actually derived logic from its real-life counterpart, the select-fire mode would not determine things like Critical Hit Chance/Damage or Status Chance, nor would it handle or fire the way it does. It would be a lot more fun to use if it was at LEAST on-par with the handling of an AR with down-loaded ammunition. I mean, it is still fun, just not as fun as it should be based on what it's trying to feel like.

Just literally my opinion and hopefully it gets around because the weapon could totally fill the niche it is attempting to, if more consideration was put into the whys and hows of a weapon's inner workings. It's not like other "strong" "top-tier" weapons don't also exist; representing an archetype is what this is all about, and it needs to do so with some actual real-life accuracy.

anotehr thing about firing mode change, its that using th etoggle has a latency and trigger problem especially on empty, which opens up a whole nother world for mods and augmentations and firing mode changes, with no bullets coming out when you push the toggle to change modes if you aren't taking cover or aiming down something like a passive on reloading would fit well...i cant think of something right now, but am sure that there has to be a general set of compensation, I got one, what if the bullets dealt more pierce for the first few shots flareroudns sunder or caused temporal distortion through toxin spread, or fever paralysis in the last round of the magazine, destiny makes their money from mods like that, i hope we in warframe can find that our firing modes and stance changing / weapon swaps too get an uplight without equiping many mods to compensate.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

As for the recoil in this weapon; in my opinion i dont think its realistic enough, good recoil would immerse the player into a dance, if done well it could be randomized on various sound factors and mathematical acustics to make weapons like burston and tiberon alot more interesting to use, they should benefit and have firing modes and shots altered by the playes center of gravity, crouching, sprinting, strafing, and the environments and planets varios weathers and terrains, if warframe were let to atain real life quality sand would get in the maganizes and gears or water/humidity cause problems in weapons and the warframes and operators would get overheated, and other diseases from the general population, dead fish, poop on plants, bacteria from traveling tenno and ships ozone, i wish for alot of it to happen, but its not going to happen anytime soon, so i;ll settle with the burston and tiberon have some exclusive rework and any updates you have.

[CazadorDeWulf]

I just want the firing behavior of the gun to make sense. That's all. I provided precedent for my belief that it doesn't make sense.

[(PSN)santospizarro]

7 minutes ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

I just want the firing behavior of the gun to make sense. That's all. I provided precedent for my belief that it doesn't make sense.

hey one moment. ok, sorry i was busy writing another article, do you play on playstation as well? what does ur load out look like?

Edited February 15, 2019 by (PS4)santospizarro

[(PSN)santospizarro]

yea am really impressed with your useful expertize in real fire arms, asuming you already shoot a few yourself its pretty awesome, hey i also got a question regarding the prime version of the tiberonm i own the regular version, it deosnt have a mode change, doees the prime version do mode changes?

[CazadorDeWulf]

1 minute ago, (PS4)santospizarro said:

yea am really impressed with your useful expertize in real fire arms, asuming you already shoot a few yourself its pretty awesome, hey i also got a question regarding the prime version of the tiberonm i own the regular version, it deosnt have a mode change, doees the prime version do mode changes?

Yes Tiberon Prime is unique to Tiberon, because it has select fire switch as alt fire.

[--RV--Dopekoke]

Of all the things you chose to point out, the magazine location didn't bother you at all?

Edited February 16, 2019 by Dopekoke

[CazadorDeWulf]

Do you think the reload animation matters more than the feel of the weapon when firing? Can't say I agree

[--RV--Dopekoke]

It's only because you're comparing real-world counterparts to a sci-fi game.  

4 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

I just want the firing behavior of the gun to make sense. 

 

On 2019-01-08 at 12:50 PM, CazadorDeWulf said:

We're changing fire-modes, not ammunition. The implication is that Single-Fire somehow lobs a stronger bullet.
This makes no sense.

and so forth but you say this at the very beginning.  

On 2019-01-08 at 12:50 PM, CazadorDeWulf said:

I absolutely 100% agree that each fire-mode has its purpose, or rather a situation where one mode is superior in clearing out enemies or taking out tough enemies, etc, than another.

and then you say this

On 2019-01-08 at 12:50 PM, CazadorDeWulf said:

Tiberon Prime is clearly inspired by the modern AR, in function. Now, if it actually derived logic from its real-life counterpart, the select-fire mode would not determine things like Critical Hit Chance/Damage or Status Chance, nor would it handle or fire the way it does. It would be a lot more fun to use if it was at LEAST on-par with the handling of an AR with down-loaded ammunition. I mean, it is still fun, just not as fun as it should be based on what it's trying to feel like.

It's a lot of contradictions, you want the firing behavior to make sense and want it to function similar to that of an AR but suggest new stats with the weapon.  

Especially here

On 2019-01-08 at 12:50 PM, CazadorDeWulf said:

We're changing fire-modes, not ammunition. The implication is that Single-Fire somehow lobs a stronger bullet.
This makes no sense. No firearm fundamentally becomes deadlier by limiting fire rate. More controllable, yes.

 

On 2019-01-08 at 12:50 PM, CazadorDeWulf said:

Dramatic Critical Hit Chance increase
(Reasoning): This keeps the damage output on this fire-mode superior while adhering to the idea that you're shooting better in this mode and not harder, faster, stronger.

Shooting better means being more accurate not having higher luck for a crit hit.

I understand that you want the auto to be buffed but please just simplify it without bringing real-world info into a sci-fi game about space ninjas with a boomerang (Kestrel) where bullets are able to slash a body in half and puncture makes the enemy do less damage to you.