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After Levelling And Trying Out Nekros' Powers, My 2 Cents Worth On Each:


Slurmageddon
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I want to try and give actual feedback on each power individually without just putting up a wall of text, or just saying "omg plzz buff nekros" because direct buffs are just asking to to go back under Scot's microscope down the line. All of this is written entirely using my personal experience with these abilities so please bear with me, and if you bought him too and have anything to add/argue please say so.

 

Soul Punch:

I quite like this one. its spammable, deals respectable damage early to mid-game and is a nice way to ragdoll a high priority target in later-game along with a nice little armour debuff. It has some issues where in the heat of the moment its kind of a bastard to aim it, but most of the time you'll suckerpunch that toxic before he has his tentacley way with you. The ability for the ragdoll to affect whatever's behind the target is a nice touch but depends way too heavily on your enemies lining up like bowling pins to be made full use of (recommend: changing that to a ragdoll-boom AoE in the immediate vicinity of the target)

 

Terrify (Formerly "Terror Totem")

This was one of the powers I was looking forward to most, and whilst I'm not exactly "disappointed" it does feel like it needs some tweaking. It performs as advertised but has a very long (very vulnerable) cast time and for a #2 power it costs a whopping 75 energy to use. Which... it's just too much. This power has the potential to make Nekros the CC king his powers are clearly designed for him to be, and the reason Nyx and Vauby were looking like they wouldnt be the only viable CC frames for late-game anymore (the more late-game viable frames there are the more balanced everything is for everybody so that was a good thing). However for that to be realized, he needs to be able to use "Terrify" to effectively quell crowds of incoming enemies or take the heat off a vital target, and this means being able to use the ability more often and to not die when doing it. With the energy cost being that high, this ability is too restricted to be able to do its job to any really useful degree unless its radius and duration were buffed to god-hood, meaning its only necessary to cast once. Which isn't really needed or a good idea, it would probably just make it OP as it'd neutralize a whole defense map. So a better fix I think, would be for it to be more viable to use in quick-ish succession in different areas of the map. (recommend: pretty bluntly.. for it to be able to quickly turn the tide of a situation, as its supposed to, it needs to be a bit more spammable with a lower cost [30-50 is reasonable for a #2 power] and either a faster, or invulnerable cast animation)

 

Desecrate

Ok this is the controversial one... When the powers were announced I was on the side of "lets wait and see how it plays, that extra loot (ammo and energy) might be useful if we're in a tight spot" which from what I can tell is the sentiment of DE too which is why they didn't change it. And... it's not that it doesn't do what it says it does, it's just that there are never really enough bodies to "desecrate" for it to seem viable to expend the 50 energy. I actually like the idea behind using fallen enemies to increase survivability but in practice; body persistence in Warframe just doesn't suit it. (recommend: Hmm.. getting rid of the idea all together is what a lot of the more "flamey" posts seem do demand but you MIGHT be able to make it work if it functioned similarly to "Shadows of the Dead" and you re-loot the last X enemies youve killed rather than the 3-4 ones that haven't been reduced to meaty chunks and physX effects)

 

Shadows of the Dead (Formerly "Clone the Dead")

like this power. I think it's the best way a summoner-type frame could have been implemented into the game and the first time I had Grineer heavy units materializing out of thin-air and turning a survival mission into a war-zone was a good moment for me. Used in conjunction with Nyx's Chaos, the whole squad can put down their guns and break for coffee because the resulting S#&$-storm is almost better when seen from a distance. So it is with affection and care that I say it too needs some tweaking >.> Not so much a direct buff, (though that would massively improve it in later-game) but if the power selected the "cream-of-the-crop" enemies, favouring heavy units and higher level mobs the way a summoner would only summon the best units they could, this would massively improve its usefulness in getting out of messy situations by making your summoned mobs more effective than just summoning some infested chargers to pop like balloons and cease to be useless (those instances are actually kind of annoying because it feels like a waste of a spawned ally).

I also feel something needs to be done to make it more "ultimate". Because as it stands, it is outclassed in almost every way by Chaos, which is its nearest comparison, this isn't just a case of frame-envy like we had between slash-dash and rhino-charge, Nekros is a more CC geared frame than Nyx, only 1 of his abilities dealing direct damage (I argue SotD is indirect) so for her to be the more "god tier" Crowd controller of the two seems a little wrong. (recommend: Some minor buffing in mob count and unit favoritism to make the summoned mobs more effective and therefore the move objectively better. And for spawned mobs to follow Nekros more closely when not in combat ! being able to take my entourage of undead space-marines with me after they've cleared a room would be a very nice touch)

 

EDIT: An additional suggestion to SotD that I quite liked the concept of:

"An alternative route would be to create a point system that gave a value to each type of enemy and let you cap it in that manner. Example: Runners/Leapers are one point, Ancients are three points, cap of 20 points. You could have six Ancients and two runners, or 20 Runners. This would help alleviate some of the "cherry" picking problems"

-From "Verazix".

Edited by Santaphrax
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I want to try and give actual feedback on each power individually without just putting up a wall of text, or just saying "omg plzz buff nekros" because direct buffs are just asking to to go back under Scot's microscope down the line. All of this is written entirely using my personal experience with these abilities so please bear with me, and if you bought him too and have anything to add/argue please say so.

 

Soul Punch:

I quite like this one. its spammable, deals respectable damage early to mid-game and is a nice way to ragdoll a high priority target in later-game along with a nice little armour debuff. It has some issues where in the heat of the moment its kind of a bastard to aim it, but most of the time you'll suckerpunch that toxic before he has his tentacley way with you. The ability for the ragdoll to affect whatever's behind the target is a nice touch but depends way too heavily on your enemies lining up like bowling pins to be made full use of (recommend: changing that to a ragdoll-boom AoE in the immediate vicinity of the target)

 

Terrify (Formerly "Terror Totem")

This was one of the powers I was looking forward to most, and whilst I'm not exactly "disappointed" it does feel like it needs some tweaking. It performs as advertised but has a very long (very vulnerable) cast time and for a #2 power it costs a whopping 75 energy to use. Which... it's just too much. This power has the potential to make Nekros the CC king his powers are clearly designed for him to be, and the reason Nyx and Vauby were looking like they wouldnt be the only viable CC frames for late-game anymore (the more late-game viable frames there are the more balanced everything is for everybody so that was a good thing). However for that to be realized, he needs to be able to use "Terrify" to effectively quell crowds of incoming enemies or take the heat off a vital target, and this means being able to use the ability more often and to not die when doing it. With the energy cost being that high, this ability is too restricted to be able to do its job to any really useful degree unless its radius and duration were buffed to god-hood, meaning its only necessary to cast once. Which isn't really needed or a good idea, it would probably just make it OP as it'd neutralize a whole defense map. So a better fix I think, would be for it to be more viable to use in quick-ish succession in different areas of the map. (recommend: pretty bluntly.. for it to be able to quickly turn the tide of a situation, as its supposed to, it needs to be a bit more spammable with a lower cost [30-50 is reasonable for a #2 power] and either a faster, or invulnerable cast animation)

 

Desecrate

Ok this is the controversial one... When the powers were announced I was on the side of "lets wait and see how it plays, that extra loot (ammo and energy) might be useful if we're in a tight spot" which from what I can tell is the sentiment of DE too which is why they didn't change it. And... it's not that it doesn't do what it says it does, it's just that there are never really enough bodies to "desecrate" for it to seem viable to expend the 50 energy. I actually like the idea behind using fallen enemies to increase survivability but in practice; body persistence in Warframe just doesn't suit it. (recommend: Hmm.. getting rid of the idea all together is what a lot of the more "flamey" posts seem do demand but you MIGHT be able to make it work if it functioned similarly to "Shadows of the Dead" and you re-loot the last X enemies youve killed rather than the 3-4 ones that haven't been reduced to meaty chunks and physX effects)

 

Shadows of the Dead (Formerly "Clone the Dead")

like this power. I think it's the best way a summoner-type frame could have been implemented into the game and the first time I had Grineer heavy units materializing out of thin-air and turning a survival mission into a war-zone was a good moment for me. Used in conjunction with Nyx's Chaos, the whole squad can put down their guns and break for coffee because the resulting S#&$-storm is almost better when seen from a distance. So it is with affection and care that I say it too needs some tweaking >.> Not so much a direct buff, (though that would massively improve it in later-game) but if the power selected the "cream-of-the-crop" enemies, favouring heavy units and higher level mobs the way a summoner would only summon the best units they could, this would massively improve its usefulness in getting out of messy situations by making your summoned mobs more effective than just summoning some infested chargers to pop like balloons and cease to be useless (those instances are actually kind of annoying because it feels like a waste of a spawned ally).

I also feel something needs to be done to make it more "ultimate". Because as it stands, it is outclassed in almost every way by Chaos, which is its nearest comparison, this isn't just a case of frame-envy like we had between slash-dash and rhino-charge, Nekros is a more CC geared frame than Nyx, only 1 of his abilities dealing direct damage (I argue SotD is indirect) so for her to be the more "god tier" Crowd controller of the two seems a little wrong. (recommend: Some minor buffing in mob count and unit favoritism to make the summoned mobs more effective and therefore the move objectively better. And for spawned mobs to follow Nekros more closely when not in combat ! being able to take my entourage of undead space-marines with me after they've cleared a room would be a very nice touch)

 

Soul Punch - Agreed good fun, but rather than making it AoE knockdown, increase the radius of the soul that jumps out the back or make it increased by stretch. More forgiving when aiming that way.

 

Terrify - I thought this was meant to debuff enemies or freeze the closest ones? I haven't noticed this at all. It's actually just a bit annoying when the enemies run away.

 

Desecrate - Couldn't get it to work on normal runs. On Mobile defence and defence missions you get an abundance of resources and orbs with the odd mod thrown in here and there. Excluding blessing, Desecrate is basically Trinity but that gives you mods. Not sure if I like it or not, I still feel that I would rather Nekros had a "clutch" power as all his powers have long casts and don't actually immediately stop the enemies from attacking you.

 

Shadows - Agree on shadow favouritism. It gets annoying handpicking mobs and then accidently shooting a grineer and losing a heavy. Or purposefully not shooting anything so you can spawn 8 ospreys in a better location. Shadowing heavier mobs over light ones would make this so much better.

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One complaint I got on Soul Punch is that it disintegrates the bodies, wich neutralizes desecrate. Nekros own kit isn't as cohesive as other frames. Desecrate being tweaked to be able to loot the disintegrated bodies would fix this immediatly.

I like your suggestions and agree with the OP overall. +1.

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My biggest problem is that it's a fantasy warframe rather than a sci-fi warframe. The name is fine and so is the death theme, but there's plenty of sci fi friendly death based themes like entrophy and disease and technocyte. It could've been functionally the same even.

Soul punch could've been something...

Terrify could've been Technocyte swarm (infect everyone with nanites that get into their heads and break down their armor)

Desecrate could've been Material Breakdown (use nanites to break down materials and recover the parts)

Shadows of the Dead could've been Infestation Puppet (use technocytes to reanimate a corpse)

Edited by Mastikator2
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My biggest problem is that it's a fantasy warframe rather than a sci-fi warframe. The name is fine and so is the death theme, but there's plenty of sci fi friendly death based themes like entrophy and disease and technocyte. It could've been functionally the same even.

Soul punch could've been something...

Terrify could've been Technocyte swarm (infect everyone with nanites that get into their heads and break down their armor)

Desecrate could've been Material Breakdown (use nanites to break down materials and recover the parts)

Shadows of the Dead could've been Infestation Puppet (use technocytes to reanimate a corpse)

I completely agree with this, and it's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of the Nekros frame. I liked it better when they were discussing his powers in terms of nanobot control/clone generation. Either that or make it technocyte related, like you suggested.

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My biggest problem is that it's a fantasy warframe rather than a sci-fi warframe. The name is fine and so is the death theme, but there's plenty of sci fi friendly death based themes like entrophy and disease and technocyte. It could've been functionally the same even.

Soul punch could've been something...

Terrify could've been Technocyte swarm (infect everyone with nanites that get into their heads and break down their armor)

Desecrate could've been Material Breakdown (use nanites to break down materials and recover the parts)

Shadows of the Dead could've been Infestation Puppet (use technocytes to reanimate a corpse)

 

I agree that it does stray from the sci-fi theme but be careful you dont begin to take the names of powers literally. Just because its CALLED soul punch doesnt mean that robots/infested etc have souls in the game

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One complaint I got on Soul Punch is that it disintegrates the bodies, wich neutralizes desecrate. Nekros own kit isn't as cohesive as other frames. Desecrate being tweaked to be able to loot the disintegrated bodies would fix this immediatly.I like your suggestions and agree with the OP overall. +1.

When enemies die from powers, they leave a residue. Desecrate works on this residue. Unfortunately the residue only hangs about for a couple of seconds, meaning if you mistime desecrate it os a waste.

IF desecrate is staying, then longer residue times are needed, only 5-10 seconds mind you.

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Soul Punch is just fun

Terror - i dont know, not used it that often for now

Desecrate - A little bit broken, some corpsed dont work, despawn time is to short. BUT has anyone noticed, that you can use it on the Clones when the die? they will drop a Health Orb then

Clones: FUN, would be more usefull if they could follow you

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Soul Punch: Seems to ignore armor, the "AOE" effect on it is unreliable. At times I seem capable of hitting the target to the left/right of my primary target, others I seem to miss it entirely. Overall, a very powerful 1 ability, if it was buffed in any direct way it'd probably be the best out there.

Terrify: Honestly extremely disappointed in this ability. It seems to be directly effected by line of sight (can't count how many times I've used it and had something come around a corner and shoot at me like I hadn't just used the ability; also couldn't get enemies on the other side of the cryopod to be effected by it in defense). The range doesn't seem too bad, and the duration, while not the obnoxiously long durations were used to here, is still workable. The line of sight deal kind of breaks it for me though, along with the long animation. Still needs further testing for range/duration.

Desecrate: Seems to work on bosses. Not sure if intended or not but ran Nef twice and managed to get double mods each time I killed him. Would be interesting to see if it works on blueprints for bosses as well. Can't see this ability being in good flavor for the game though, it nearly makes Nekros mandatory for boss mobs, and if the corpse despawn time is "fixed" he'll be nigh mandatory on anything else with large amounts of mobs as well given that he could potentially double mod/resource drop rates. Not a fan of this ability, nor the problems it might cause.

Clones: The uh... Limit seems kind of low in comparison to Chaos (limit of eight total summons with Focus). Going to say I hate the long cast animation (as cool as it looks), and despise the ability to get runners. I mean, it's funny the first time you summon five runners and watch them all run into an ancient and explode, but the rest of the time you just stare at your game going "Are you kidding me?" Prioritizing heavies might be a bit "too much" but it's probably acceptable to remove runners from the equation entirely given the ease of killing them and small number of summons. An alternative route would be to create a point system that gave a value to each type of enemy and let you cap it in that manner. Example: Runners/Leapers are one point, Ancients are three points, cap of 20 points. You could have six Ancients and two runners, or 20 Runners. This would help alleviate some of the "cherry" picking problems, but many of the more hard core players would also try their best to still get the "best" suited team. Though in a fast paced game like this, they'd be causing more problems than helping in most circumstances. Numbers would obviously need tweaking, and would require a lot more work than you'd probably like to put into a single ability, but it's still a thought.

Stats: Why are his stats so awkward in comparison to every other frame in game? He seems to have above average speed, but average power, health, armor, and below average shields. Is there a reason for this? In the past "power based" frames have been given major detriments to their other stats to achieve the 150 base power, however he's been given similar stats to "power based" frames without actually receiving the power bonus. Though I've always felt Vauban's stats were off in comparison to other frames, Nekros's are even more so.

Edit: Done some more testing for Terrify, the range is pretty abysmal. Probably a little large than Bastille, but I can't throw this half way across the map. The ability for it to go through objects seems pretty mandatory, but I can't reliably tell if it or isn't working (there are times I cast it on the other side of the crypod and get nothing, other times I get everything). The "ability in use" is also a huge problem, since it doesn't seem reliable at all when it ends. I could have killed everything running and it's still giving me that message. Would probably just be best to remove the ability in use; I can't think of a single other CC only ability that does.

Edited by Verazix
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Stats: Why are his stats so awkward in comparison to every other frame in game? He seems to have above average speed, but average power, health, armor, and below average shields. Is there a reason for this? In the past "power based" frames have been given major detriments to their other stats to achieve the 150 base power, however he's been given similar stats to "power based" frames without actually receiving the power bonus. Though I've always felt Vauban's stats were off in comparison to other frames, Nekros's are even more so.

 

I completely neglected to take a proper look at the stats, but you're right. 

Its actually kind of off-putting

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Instead of making another thread about this, I'll post my thoughts on his abilities here. But before that, let's look at his stats.

 

Base shields is 90, base health is 100, base armor is 50. Okay, so he's a caster/support Warframe, so that's underst- wait, only 100 BASE energy?? That's awful. I mean, you can justify that low, low energy base if he's fairly beefy in protections, and vise verse, but both being ridiculously low?

 

Soul Punch:

Good concept, but currently it seems fairly buggy. The 500 armor ignore damage is nice, but often times it either: doesn't want to activate, it doesn't hit things behind the target like it should (possibly due to a small hitbox for it), or it does very, very reduced damage to the enemies behind it. Then there's the very few times it works, and phew, is it satisfying, though like every other damage ability, it falls off. Currently, I'd say it's a worse Slash Dash/Rhino Charge in the ability to do damage or the ability to CC (Rhino Charge has better damage and CC), although it does have the benefit of being able to be used without putting yourself into possible danger.

 

Terrify:

Here's where the bigger issues start. Terrify is basically one half of Chaos ripped from the other half, except here, it doesn't last as long, nor does it seem to affect as large of an area. Not only this, despite it being one half of Chaos, and not as powerful as that one half, it still costs 75!! energy, which is made worse by his awful, awful base amount of energy.

 

Desecrate: 

A farming ability that's really buggy and is hampered by how corpses are handled in this game at the moment. Corpses last for about four seconds before disappearing, and many of the much stronger ultimate in the game dissolve corpses immediately (Mole Prime, Miasma). Not to mention weapon elemental damage, like the acid from the Acrid. All of this buggy and finicky mess, for a measly cost of 50 energy. While it's an interesting idea, it's not good enough to stand alone as its own ability, which is why I think this should be combined into Terrify.

 

Hear me out, basically, Terrify, after being made worth using by lowering the energy cost to 50, and increasing the radius and duration, has the added bonus of causing any afflicted enemy to have to loot drop passes when they die (while afflicted). So, let's say Grineer Bob get's affected by Terrify and then killed for being a jerk, instead of RNG having one pass for drops, it has two, so basically, double the chance of mods/ammo/etc but without having to spend copious amounts of time and energy in trying to find corpses to use Desecrate on, but only on enemies that die with his 2 still affecting them of course. This is literally the only way I can see Desecrate working, is if it's combined into 2 like this, which would end up making his Terrify a really, really good ability, instead of half of Chaos neutered.

 

Of course, then he has a gap at his third ability, which I'm not sure what to fill with. But I think some sort of large AoE that does a DoT effect of damage and armor debuffing, while slowly healing his allies (clones included) and it could be called Decay or Atrophy or something. It'd also fill in his lack of a real AoE damage thing and team buff.

 

Shadows of the Dead:

This is a very, very cool idea.The problem is, the execution. Fully maxed out, it gives you only SIX clones that you HAVE to kill, focus only takes that up to a measly EIGHT. It's the other half of Chaos that requires more work to use for much, much less gain but higher energy cost. What needs to happen is, keep the needing-to-kill restriction in for the clones, but bump the limit up to 30 (40 with max focus) and make the AoE that they spawn in much larger. This way it penalizes spamming his 4 by rewarding saving it, but also makes it a worthwhile ability. The larger spawn in radius also makes it better due to the fact it does the job of splitting the enemy AI's attention, acting sort of as a psuedo CC/damage ultimate without really being one or feeling like one.

 

One annoying thing about his ult is the very, very long animation time in which he has no sort of invulnerability or protection against enemy fire, too, which is where his poor base stats really come back to penalize him for.

 

Of course, after his abilities are reworked and fixed, either his protections or his energy capacity needs to be increased as well.

Edited by Haids
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My 2p

 

Soul Punch: Does decent damage, the swirling soul effect is really gimmicky though, theres no rhyme or reason as to which direction it flies out, ive seen it spin off to the side when there arent any enemies in that direction, ive also had it spinning back towards me in my direction. And it also deals severely reduced damage to secondary targets when it -does- hit.

 

Terrify: Great in concept, terrible in practice. The area of the ability's effect is far too small with a stretch mod it barely covers the pod when its being swarmed by infested. Wanna know why this ability is terrifying? You have to practically hump the target just to make it work.

 

Desecrate: I think we all knew what the issue was even before this warframe was released, corpses dont last long enough and between the drop rates of energy and ammo even in their reduced capacity, combined with ammo packs from the marketplace, there is simply no NEED for this ability, at all. Ontop of that it doesnt even work half the time because there is no visual indication of where you can use it to actually get something to drop. Once a mob dies, it dissipates instantly and your left staring at a floor with a bunch of loot.

 

Shadows of the Dead: This ability alone makes me not want to kill a single weak enemy and instead only focus on killing heavy units. Why? Because reviving weak enemies is a waste of energy, not only do they die in one hit just like their normal counterparts, but they deal terrible damage ontop of that. This is besides the fact that the power itself doesnt last long at all even with Continuity + Constitution. Please give resurrected enemies a damage boost AND health boost based on the power's rank, and im talking -severely huge- boosts, because as it is, this power cannot compare in damage output to the traditional AoE room-clearing #4, nor can it compare to the utility #4's of say Vaubans Vortex or trinity's blessing. In addition to this, the durations need to increase to get the usefulness out of the minions you resurrect.

 

 

 

Over all I found Nekros to be a severe disappointment and a waste of plat (nevermind the fact that it has the most completely absurd unlocking requirements of all warframes) and not worth the trouble to unlock. Not only is he terrible at dealing damage, but hes terrible at providing group support. Just what is this guy supposed to DO that contributes to the games he joins?

Edited by Hammie
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My biggest problem is that it's a fantasy warframe rather than a sci-fi warframe. The name is fine and so is the death theme, but there's plenty of sci fi friendly death based themes like entrophy and disease and technocyte. It could've been functionally the same even.

Soul punch could've been something...

Terrify could've been Technocyte swarm (infect everyone with nanites that get into their heads and break down their armor)

Desecrate could've been Material Breakdown (use nanites to break down materials and recover the parts)

Shadows of the Dead could've been Infestation Puppet (use technocytes to reanimate a corpse)

Branch out your scope, there's plenty of sci-fi that deals with these kinds of supernatural powers. War 40k, Rid$&*^ etc etc... Keep in mind, as well, this is kinda a sci-fi fantasy based game in the first place (they use frikkin ninja magic for crying out loud)

As for frame feedback...

1.) needs some tweaking on targeting, too often my reticle is ON a target but I keep getting "invalid target" errors

2.) Horrible skill, too long to cast, too high of an energy cost, crappy hit detection (for the cast time and energy cost it should go through obsticles) and just downright annoying; everything running away from you just makes them a serious pain to hit. I might forgive the last bit if it ignored LoS similar to stomp.

3.) Hit and miss... can be a great tool for amping up loot but it's really tricky to know when you can use it; for example infested that flail after being killed will NOT ACTIVATE from desicrate until they fall down, and the dissolve as soon as that happens giving a very small window. This really should be something more like M.Prime where it puts a "debuff" on living enemies for a few seconds that makes them spin two loot chances or something similar.

4.) Also hit and miss. Bug often, huge cast time but it does add some tactical elements to play considering you tend to favor hunting heavies. I can't say I love or hate this skill, it's quite useful and visually great but a pain at times for previously mentioned reasons.

also... his scarf is just awful.

Edited by Bakim0n0
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