[DE]Rebecca 180,956 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Warframe and change go together like Inaros and Vitality. Without change in Warframe we'd still have Stamina Bars, Nekros would still have to hit '3' every time he wanted to Desecrate, and bullet jumping wouldn't exist. In fact, without change, Warframe melee would only consist of quick attacks. Melee changes are coming - and they'll be rolling out in Phases. Starting with this ‘Phase 1’ overview, we hope to give you some insight as to what you can expect coming down the road - starting with the following goals: 1) Uninterrupted Combat - firearm to equipped melee (and vice versa) states are instant. Bonus 1.a) Combo Resume 2) Ground Slams are more controllable, cleaner, and simpler. 3) Visual FX: 2019 style! 4) Keybinds! 5) Change & Methodology.UNINTERRUPTED COMBAT Our original "Sword Alone" melee update inspirations came from a lot of '1 player vs. 1 enemy' materials, which over the years has not kept up with Warframe's combat pace. To benefit from blocking, combos, channeling, and more you had to hold a key and lock yourself into melee mode entirely. This had huge appeal in 2014 because everything was new, but now it is time to bring back fast and distinctly Warframe combat. With the instant firearm to equipped melee (and vice versa) states, you can immediately engage in all things melee - Combos, blocking, and more. No more interruptions between firearm and melee!COMBO INTERRUPTS/RESUME When interrupting a melee combo with gunfire, dodging, bullet jumping, or any parkour, your next melee attack will resume the combo where it left off (within a window). This simply means taking brief and tactical actions between combo executions is now a valid strategy. Combo Resuming is something we are trying for Phase 1 - at least as a prototype. This is the most subject to 'too volatile to ship in Phase 1', so we'll keep you posted. GROUND SLAMS Aerial dominance is a key part of Warframe - you have full freedom to not only weave in and out of combat on the ground, but bullet jumping and aim gliding from above is one of a Warframe's most lethal advantages. Current ground slams instantly interrupt all momentum, direction, and cancel any aiming to slam you down right where you are. We are going to make Melee ground slams aimed, and as a result more controllable. You will be able to use your aerial advantage to aim, and then target the Ground Slam to more tactical end results. OLD SYSTEM NEW SYSTEM FX: 2019! Our FX art team will be updating all things Melee FX. Expect a beautifully redone FX pass with all this change in Phase 1! Our FX Team says: 'We're replacing all Melee FX with the new clean basic ones!' You can see what that looks like here:https://gfycat.com/gloomyenlightenedhoverfly https://gfycat.com/clutteredpotablekagu Because this is Phase 1, it 'means all the unique weapons will have new generic FX for a little while (Jat Kittag etc.) until we can get through them all and make new clean variants'. New and cleaner FX have been created with the idea of beautifully short, highly detailed lifespans. Not infinite - meaning the 'Constant Weapon Trail' option will be removed as a result of this change (at least for Phase 1, we really do think it looks better removed).KEYBINDINGS Things are changing. This may lead to keybindings from our old Melee system becoming obsolete. Notable Keybind changes:BLOCKING Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all!CHANNELING Channeling is now a toggle set to your alt-fire button when in melee mode. Your 'F' button now exclusively swaps between Primary and Secondary weapons with a tap. Your left mouse button is gun fire, always, instantly. Your right mouse button is now aim, always, instantly.OPTIONS: We are adding a toggle to preserve one aspect of the older melee system. You will be able to toggle an option, allowing you to continue melee attacks with the left mouse button once in melee mode.CHANGE& CHANGE METHODOLOGY: We have been discussing Melee over the course of many Devstreams - at one point planning to release it one weapon class at a time. This is no longer a wise case for any practical development to be made, so instead we are releasing in Phases. Instead of doing all the changes to one weapon, we are doing smaller phases of changes to all weapons. That way you'll be able to experience batches of changes across all you weapons - what is good for a Dagger may not be good for a Hammer, and as each Phase rolls out, you'll be able to compare and contrast! We cannot make innovative change when trying to preserve the status quo from 2014. What this means more broadly is that melee habits will change, not just keybindings. Keybindings are just a facet of the current combat systems - however, we are confident that the changes being made will increase the fluidity of melee combat, and that new smoother feeling will outweigh the old, clunker need for different keybindings. We cannot upgrade the melee system to 3.0 without refactoring what exists. Additional Information: Updated Reticles: Melee mode has received its own reticle! Archwing: Arch-Melee & Arch-Gun now also use the 'instant swap' behaviour. Dual Wield (i.e Glaive & Single Secondary) is still supported! Exalted weapons will also benefit from the uninterrupted swaps! AI hit reacts are getting updated! Enemies will have a more visceral/realistic response to the various hits you dish out. It'll look a little something like this: https://gfycat.com/SpiritedLastHeifer CONCLUSION We don't want to repeat 2018's Melee discussion where we show, go dark, and the year passes. We'll live through this evolution in phases together and adjust the sails along the way. We are confident the change is needed, and we've started charting the course. We'll let you know when release week comes for PC. Once we've made progress, we'll start writing about Phase 2 which will talk all things MODS and CHANNELING. We are not touching any of your upgrades or gear until you've been able to try out Phase 1. It feels incredibly refreshing to play missions on the Dev build with Phase 1 so far. We hope you enjoy a new spark of action coming to your Arsenals soon! P.S. we're going live 45 minutes from now twitch.tv/warframe to read this with you all and demo it.. if you want to see your favourite frame/melee demo'd, reply here with details! ---------------------------------------------- Post-Stream Edit!: We had a lot of excellent questions come up during the livestream about these upcoming Melee changes, as well as some great questions here in the thread. As a result, we wanted to recap some FAQ's here in the main post: When is it going to be released? - Development is ongoing, and you can see that we are making excellent progress. Right now, the plan is to release Phase 1 of the update with our next Mainline Update. We are hoping this is in a couple weeks on PC! 2019's wells appear to be dry so far from the outside, Tenno, but we’ve not been sitting idle within DE's walls. How will this work with Combos that need a Block button to use? - The current plan is to change these combos to an alternate function, although the final decision on this has not been settled upon. It may require a bit of re-learning, but we are aiming to make it as intuitive as possible! How will special blocking weapons’ abilities work? - We have plans to include alternate ways of using these abilities to make them work with the new system. For example, the Vaykor Sydon unleashes its special ability when block is released. The plan is to change that so built-up charges will only trigger when aiming, giving you more control over its use. How will this effect ‘X’ Mod? - Mods are coming in a later stage of development of this huge change, and you may see some changes to how Mods work with the new system. We are staying aware of any breaking changes that will be reported, however, and will make adjustments as we get feedback. Thank you for joining us on our impromptu Stream to look at these changes and to get a bit more of a demonstration of how this rework will function. If you missed it, you can look at the footage yourself and see all the glorious new FX and functionality by watching the video below! 62 Link to post Share on other sites
naturalcandy 56 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) Good! So .. Reflex Guard removed? Edited February 22, 2019 by naturalcandy Q 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Cmdr-A 1,255 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Thanks for the info. Its definitely nice to read some of the changes coming in more detail. I'm definitely liking the blocking is automatic much like excalibers exalted blade. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxAlchemyst 543 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm really excited to see how this comes out. I'm already expecting to be using melee more just because of the rule of cool. Link to post Share on other sites
slotschii 519 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) Sounds great, can't wait to try it out 🙂 Edited February 22, 2019 by slotschii Link to post Share on other sites
Kyrosiris 240 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: OPTIONS: We are adding a toggle to preserve one aspect of the older melee system. You will be able to toggle an option, allowing you to continue melee attacks with the left mouse button once in melee mode. This fixes the only lingering concern I had about everything Steve has been showing off, so I've gone from 90% hyped ("this looks sweet, so I'll deal with relearning") to 100% hyped. 😄 😄 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Gabbynaru 10,878 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 When will this release? Cause I'd rather complain after using it than complain after reading text and hype that may not represent the way I play (quick attack spam). Link to post Share on other sites
LokiTheCondom 835 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 How would this augment work with secondary/alt fire being replaced for channeling? 8 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: P.S. we're going live 45 minutes from now twitch.tv/warframe to read this with you all and demo it.. if you want to see your favourite frame/melee demo'd, reply here with details! SHOW US HAMMER STANCES 6 Link to post Share on other sites
(XB1)Cash201293 3,805 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I really would love to see all of this in action within the next devstream Link to post Share on other sites
WinterLynx 64 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm pretty excited for these changes. It seems like it will be a great improvement to the flow of combat. Link to post Share on other sites
LSG501 11,626 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: snip are we getting any 'attack where we look' added to our melee attacks? Currently there is no 'change in plane' for the melee attack so it makes hitting things lower and higher than us harder so it would be nice if something like this is being added, ie to we look up to hit an osprey or we look down to hit something below us on a staircase? Not to mention how will this affect mods that deal with swapping weapons faster or vigorous swap where it gives extra damage etc Edited February 22, 2019 by LSG501 5 Link to post Share on other sites
gpturismo 173 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Amazing. Let's see excel prime and skana prime kek Link to post Share on other sites
TheBluJack 0 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 lit Link to post Share on other sites
OvisCaedo 3,320 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) Goodbye melee aimgliding, I guess? Actually a little disappointing with some of the weapon passives that only count when the weapon is out, like the Rakta Dark Dagger's reduced visibility. edit: hopefully you guys are going to take an immediate look at any of the weapons with blocking mechanics along with this. stuff like the Vaykor Sydon is... bad to begin with, and very incompatible with auto-blocking, so this is a perfect time to change it! Edited February 22, 2019 by OvisCaedo 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DividerPrime 39 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: BLOCKING Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all! pls no animation locks like those with stagger resists 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BenThePoofle 486 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 So far, so good. Link to post Share on other sites
ociato 4 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Changes look great! My only concern would be combos that rely on using the block to continue the chain (the August Mesto chain in Tempo Royale, for example). Looking forward to the showcase! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Brodh 104 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: OPTIONS: We are adding a toggle to preserve one aspect of the older melee system. You will be able to toggle an option, allowing you to continue melee attacks with the left mouse button once in melee mode. This is all I needed, thanks so much ❤️ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BangKerpow 5 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) This all sounds really cool. What I'd like to see demoed are the special blocking functions like Guardian Derision, Electromagnetic Shielding, Avenging Truth and the Vaykor Sydon. Edited February 22, 2019 by BangKerpow 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Orthesein 0 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: If possible i would love to see Nikana Demoed Link to post Share on other sites
Shadedraxe 287 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Wait? Surprise devstream? Alright!!! also everything here sounds awesome!!! Go Chroma and Galatine Prime if you see this 😉 Link to post Share on other sites
Server 1,056 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 one i want to see tried in the upcoming surprise stream is the Sancti Magistar in action, since that has a charge gimmick. I'm wondering how they will flow in the new melee. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Cicasajt 1,189 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 just make blade and whips less pain to use Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer_of_PCs 47 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 @[DE]Rebecca How does this impact warframes like Excal, Wukong, Baruuk, Valkyr, etc. that have melee abilities? Are their casts now instant too? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FreezerFlare 976 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Thank you for not killing Combo. Link to post Share on other sites
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