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The sugar coated "don't worry, it'll be ok" tone this post takes makes it sound like ok is exactly what it won't be; that melee lovers/mains should prepare for the full final melee 3.0 to be a net loss of power compared to 2.0. Can you confirm or deny that melee's ability to scale as hard as our enemies do, power at clearing crowds, and simple fun level are intended to be preserved through the many mechanical changes made as melee 3.0 advances?

as a melee main who'll often not even equip any guns at all, the thought of melee 3.0 being a nerf in disguise when all is said and done about it actually deeply worries me for the continued enjoyability of Warframe.

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would love to see valkyr melee tbh since shes 100% melee focussed. also destreza prime or kogake prime demo would be lovely~

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I know this won't be available to show on the stream, but as long as melee is being worked on, would you consider adding an accessibility option so that users who have trouble repeatedly pressing buttons can just hold the melee button?  It wouldn't have to be able to do all the combos, but something is better than nothing! ❤️ 

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I'd love to see how fluid switching to something like a Dagger would be for using Dispatch Overdrive for speed missions.

If you need a build to use, "Ludicrous Speed" on my account on PC

Edited by -Manks

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hace 1 hora, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

Warframe and change go together like Inaros and Vitality. Without change in Warframe we'd still have Stamina Bars, Nekros would still have to hit '3' every time he wanted to Desecrate, and bullet jumping wouldn't exist. In fact, without change, Warframe melee would only consist of quick attacks.

Melee changes are coming - and they'll be rolling out in Phases. Starting with this ‘Phase 1’ overview, we hope to give you some insight as to what you can expect coming down the road - starting with the following goals:

1) Uninterrupted Combat - firearm to equipped melee (and vice versa) states are instant.
Bonus 1.a) Combo Resume
2) Ground Slams are more controllable, cleaner, and simpler.
3) Visual FX: 2019 style!
4) Keybinds!
5) Change & Methodology.

UNINTERRUPTED COMBAT
 

Our original "Sword Alone" melee update inspirations came from a lot of '1 player vs. 1 enemy' materials, which over the years has not kept up with Warframe's combat pace. To benefit from blocking, combos, channeling, and more you had to hold a key and lock yourself into melee mode entirely. This had huge appeal in 2014 because everything was new, but now it is time to bring back fast and distinctly Warframe combat.

With the instant firearm to equipped melee (and vice versa) states, you can immediately engage in all things melee - Combos, blocking, and more. No more interruptions between firearm and melee!

COMBO INTERRUPTS/RESUME

When interrupting a melee combo with gunfire, dodging, bullet jumping, or any parkour, your next melee attack will resume the combo where it left off (within a window). This simply means taking brief and tactical actions between combo executions is now a valid strategy.

Combo Resuming is something we are trying for Phase 1 - at least as a prototype. This is the most subject to 'too volatile to ship in Phase 1', so we'll keep you posted.
 

GROUND SLAMS

Aerial dominance is a key part of Warframe - you have full freedom to not only weave in and out of combat on the ground, but bullet jumping and aim gliding from above is one of a Warframe's most lethal advantages. Current ground slams instantly interrupt all momentum, direction, and cancel any aiming to slam you down right where you are. We are going to make Melee ground slams aimed, and as a result more controllable. You will be able to use your aerial advantage to aim, and then target the Ground Slam to more tactical end results.


OLD SYSTEM


S8d4euYH56wfPVKIwFLn7Q6hG5vT3o4sUE4aeSY1

NEW SYSTEM

14XiqUa2MbncI82kOpJdTtxqIWDZ678dsoWBLvKg

FX: 2019!

Our FX art team will be updating all things Melee FX. Expect a beautifully redone FX pass with all this change in Phase 1!

Our FX Team says:

'We're replacing all Melee FX with the new clean basic ones!' You can see what that looks like here:
https://gfycat.com/gloomyenlightenedhoverfly

https://gfycat.com/clutteredpotablekagu


Because this is Phase 1, it 'means all the unique weapons will have new generic FX for a little while (Jat Kittag etc.) until we can get through them all and make new clean variants'.

New and cleaner FX have been created with the idea of beautifully short, highly detailed lifespans. Not infinite - meaning the 'Constant Weapon Trail' option will be removed as a result of this change (at least for Phase 1, we really do think it looks better removed).


KEYBINDINGS

Things are changing. This may lead to keybindings from our old Melee system becoming obsolete.

Notable Keybind changes:

BLOCKING

Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all!

CHANNELING
Channeling is now a toggle set to your alt-fire button when in melee mode.
Your 'F' button now exclusively swaps between Primary and Secondary weapons with a tap.
Your left mouse button is gun fire, always, instantly.
Your right mouse button is now aim, always, instantly.

OPTIONS:
We are adding a toggle to preserve one aspect of the older melee system. You will be able to toggle an option, allowing you to continue melee attacks with the left mouse button once in melee mode.

CHANGE& CHANGE METHODOLOGY:

We have been discussing Melee over the course of many Devstreams - at one point planning to release it one weapon class at a time. This is no longer a wise case for any practical development to be made, so instead we are releasing in Phases. Instead of doing all the changes to one weapon, we are doing smaller phases of changes to all weapons. That way you'll be able to experience batches of changes across all you weapons - what is good for a Dagger may not be good for a Hammer, and as each Phase rolls out, you'll be able to compare and contrast!

We cannot make innovative change when trying to preserve the status quo from 2014. What this means more broadly is that melee habits will change, not just keybindings. Keybindings are just a facet of the current combat systems - however, we are confident that the changes being made will increase the fluidity of melee combat, and that new smoother feeling will outweigh the old, clunker need for different keybindings. We cannot upgrade the melee system to 3.0 without refactoring what exists.

 

Additional Information:
 

  • Updated Reticles: Melee mode has received its own reticle!
  • Archwing: Arch-Melee & Arch-Gun now also use the 'instant swap' behaviour.
  • Dual Wield (i.e Glaive & Single Secondary) is still supported!
  • Exalted weapons will also benefit from the uninterrupted swaps!
  • AI hit reacts are getting updated! Enemies will have a more visceral/realistic response to the various hits you dish out. It'll look a little something like this: https://gfycat.com/SpiritedLastHeifer

CONCLUSION

We don't want to repeat 2018's Melee discussion where we show, go dark, and the year passes. We'll live through this evolution in phases together and adjust the sails along the way. We are confident the change is needed, and we've started charting the course.

We'll let you know when release week comes for PC. Once we've made progress, we'll start writing about Phase 2 which will talk all things MODS and CHANNELING. We are not touching any of your upgrades or gear until you've been able to try out Phase 1.

It feels incredibly refreshing to play missions on the Dev build with Phase 1 so far. We hope you enjoy a new spark of action coming to your Arsenals soon!

P.S. we're going live 45 minutes from now twitch.tv/warframe to read this with you all and demo it.. if you want to see your favourite frame/melee demo'd, reply here with details!

What will happen with Mesa´s Exalted Regulators and new melee???
IGN: Zediro Platform:PC

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Thank you for the workshop post. There are some things I would still like some clarification on:

  1. How does this affect current melee combos? Some of them require things like RMB+E, but RMB will now always be weapon aim.
  2. How will this affect the future of melee 3.0? Previous demonstrations showed new attacks that used button combos or otherwise still relied on dedicated melee mode. I realize this is a very broad question, but in short, I don't understand how combos can exist going forward without, say, a heavy melee button-- and I see no room for that with the fusion of gun and blade gameplay. I was under the impression that one of melee 3.0's goals at the outset was to reduce the complexity of things like hold and pause combos (additionally, melee attack speed can severely affect the functionality of said combos).
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Do the new FX include the indicators of true melee range? 

 

I'd also love to see a demo with bladewhips. 

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Also since blocking is all automatic now, you really need to make all the block animations look cooler, and be more unique for each weapon type.

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Lots of cool decisions, but that's again more time to spent on the dev and no new release about this topic for now. I think anyway that choice you made here was the best and the one that will be the most successfull and easier to deploy by the time.

I'm however asking myself, will this choice push back the release of everything else planned for the "start" of the year ? Is the actual "mainline" update pushed back due to melee 3.0 or is there more deep reasons for fortuna part 3 to not been released yet that isn't depending on the changes on the melee 3.0 roadmap ?

There also still the topic of the two handed katana, and other new type of weapon that could come but are still in "soon tm" stat because they "requiered melee 3.0 before", I'm not blaming anyone, just saying that there is a LOT of content you've promissed and hyped us about but they all requiered that amazing melee 3.0 upgrade before, and with the time passing, and passing, well we're still waiting them and we don't know for how long we'll have to keep doing it.

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Is blocking while channeling still going to drain energy?

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59 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Melee changes are coming - and they'll be rolling out in Phases. Starting with this ‘Phase 1’ overview, we hope to give you some insight as to what you can expect coming down the road

Will melee be rebalanced in conclave after these changes go live? Based on what i've read from pvp veterans (the actual ninjas of this game) there is a history of DE making PvE weapon changes that destroy the PvP balance and are never revisited again despite the feedback and documentation given in the corresponding feedback section, and leaving the game mode to stagnate won't fix any of its issues.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Dual Wield

For the purposes of 'single gun & one handed melee' that has been teased before... do gunblades count as 'single handed'? Please say yes because kitgun + Redeemer is the spice I want.

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Are there any plans to add animations for skills cast while mid-air or in a bullet jump? For example, currently if you are flying and cast a skill on Excalibur, he 'stands up' midair with his sword to the air, and then resumes his bullet jump.

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What if we hold down the secondary fire button while in the air melee mode to aimglide and channel at the same time. Aimglide blocking will be automatic?

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Is melee going to have a an active grappling lock system incorporated into it? Like a way with fist / claw / dagger / grappling melee to hold E, grab and hang onto enemies and basically do a manic body grab and repeatedly attacks until thing is dead or knocks you off?

Would be really neat to see some MMA stuff going on, ways to drag enemies down to prone for finishers, stuff like that!

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Kinda worried about the auto block. I hope you guys also change how block works, remove that pause. Just let us be able to move even when the block triggers

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If not asked previously: How will the melee blocking changes affect knockdown defense (aka, blocking to avoid knockdown by Heavy Gunners, Scorpions, Ancients, etc)? Other than that, looks amazing!

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

KEYBINDINGS

Things are changing. This may lead to keybindings from our old Melee system becoming obsolete.

Notable Keybind changes:

BLOCKING

Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all!

CHANNELING
Channeling is now a toggle set to your alt-fire button when in melee mode.
Your 'F' button now exclusively swaps between Primary and Secondary weapons with a tap.
Your left mouse button is gun fire, always, instantly.
Your right mouse button is now aim, always, instantly.

OPTIONS:
We are adding a toggle to preserve one aspect of the older melee system. You will be able to toggle an option, allowing you to continue melee attacks with the left mouse button once in melee mode.

1. Will the old melee style toggle include the ability to block on command instead of auto blocking? If not, can we please have a toggle between manual and auto blocking?

2. Are there any changes to default controller keybinds? I know these changes are coming to PC first, but please don't forget that many of us use a controller with PC.

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1 hour ago, Internet_Toughguy said:

Looks good. Main issue I see is that a lot of people like myself prefer to use Quick Melee instead of stances. It is faster, smoother, and more efficient in many cases, and does not bounce me or the enemies around the map. Specifically, the polearm default melee attack, since it does not interrupt your flow. I wish there was a way to preserve this option. Perhaps a "Quick Melee" stance mod or something that could universally be slotted in to weapons? There are probably better suggestions than that though.

Made a topic about that here.

 

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