Melee Changes: Phase 1

[sir_deadlock]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 In fact, without change, Warframe melee would only consist of quick attacks.

 

Not true. We used to have quick attacks and quick-heavy/charge attacks. That, alongside wall attacks and slide attacks(coptering) have been present since open beta. If I recall, jump kicks were somewhat recent though, implemented around the time of aim gliding.

On that note, please consider inspiration from other games when implementing your new downward attack plan. Notably, the extremely satisfying "Sonic Dash" extra jump, and the ever classic "Goomba Stomp" which directly impacts a target when jumped on, again, allowing a player to jump off of an enemy.

 It would also be satisfying to constantly be allowed to use finisher-style rear-strikes. Perhaps a stealth strike would be critically guaranteed, but an alerted strike would still offer a heavier hit with a dramatically shorter animation.

  I do hope the Frame Fighter "grapple/throw/bodyslam" mechanic finds its way into the game somehow, if only when equipping hand-to-hand enhancing weapons like the kogake. Allowing martial arts weapons to have unique game mechanics would be complicated, and perhaps unpopular, but it is an option to consider.

 I'd like to thank you for the combo trees which are simple to understand. Specifically those like Decisive Judgement, which have a unique activated potential attack after each successive attack, up to 4 attacks. The new system could also use a similar style, replacing the block function (right mouse click) instead with a held button press. Such an attack system would be similar, but not identical, to the wildly popular Dynasty Warriors games.

[SilverBones]

The following was added to the main post at the beginning of the thread, but posting here for visibility!

----------------------------

Post-Stream Edit!:

We had a lot of excellent questions come up during the livestream about these upcoming Melee changes, as well as some great questions here in the thread. As a result, we wanted to recap some FAQ's here in the main post:

• When is it going to be released? - Development is ongoing, and you can see that we are making excellent progress. Right now, the plan is to release Phase 1 of the update with our next Mainline Update. We are hoping this is in a couple weeks on PC! 2019's wells appear to be dry so far from the outside, Tenno, but we’ve not been sitting idle within DE's walls.
   
• How will this work with Combos that need a Block button to use? - The current plan is to change these combos to an alternate function, although the final decision on this has not been settled upon. It may require a bit of re-learning, but we are aiming to make it as intuitive as possible!
   
• How will special blocking weapons’ abilities work? - We have plans to include alternate ways of using these abilities to make them work with the new system. For example, the Vaykor Sydon unleashes its special ability when block is released. The plan is to change that so built-up charges will only trigger when aiming, giving you more control over its use.
   
• How will this effect ‘X’ Mod? - Mods are coming in a later stage of development of this huge change, and you may see some changes to how Mods work with the new system. We are staying aware of any breaking changes that will be reported, however, and will make adjustments as we get feedback.

Thank you for joining us on our impromptu Stream to look at these changes and to get a bit more of a demonstration of how this rework will function. If you missed it, you can look at the footage yourself and see all the glorious new FX and functionality by watching the video below!

 

[Kainosh]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

No more interruptions between firearm and melee!

Good.

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

When interrupting a melee combo with gunfire, dodging, bullet jumping, or any parkour, your next melee attack will resume the combo where it left off (within a window)

Good.   But that "window" should not be affected by Attack speed.  Combo windows should be separately moddable...or fixed.   Personally i dont mind fixed windows, since i dont use high attack speeds....But some people might want a separate "exilus" slot for Combo window modding. 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Current ground slams instantly interrupt all momentum, direction, and cancel any aiming to slam you down right where you are

I dont want slam to require aiming. Aiming it should be optional.   

When I Aim-glide while shooting distant targets, i sense when enemies are beneath me, and i slam without looking, staying focused on my target.   But with that new system i will have to look down in order to slam.  No good.  That is an interruption.      Besides, I use Slam as a Brake quite often. 

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies

Ok...Alright...I can live with that. BUT!

If we cant "counter" with block, let us "counter" with attack.   Attacking simultaneously with enemy will stagger them (if you aim at them that is).   That should work with some bosses too, like Tyl Regor, Stalker and Umbra.   

 

[sir_deadlock]

1 minute ago, Kainosh said:

I dont want slam to require aiming. Aiming it should be optional.   

When I Aim-glide while shooting distant targets, i sense when enemies are beneath me, and i slam without looking, staying focused on my target.   But with that new system i will have to look down in order to slam.  No good.  That is an interruption.      Besides, use Slam as a Brake quite often.

 

I imagine a viable adaptive mechanic already present in the game to allow this would be Ash's Blade Storm, set to only highlight one enemy within a cone beneath the warframe. If such a target is MIA, then a default slam would be initiated.

[Danjal777]

Not to be rude, but you need to do something inbetween these updates.  That is one of the very few things that have kept Warframe alive: a constant trickle of content releases.  I mean grab a few people and put them to work on special bite sized projects and have them build up in a buffer so that you can release something.  

Ideas:

-Special mission events (All Lancer mission with special drops, a new mod, lancer-esque cosmetic items).

-Rework the mechanics on old weapons that no one uses, (heat weapons actually heating up as the combo counter rises, pangolin sword providing a thorns effect).

-New Wraith, Vandal, Mara, etc. weapons...I mean come on it's a reskin and some adjusted stats with maybe some sound work.

There is so much content that is in the game that is essentially wasted, put that stuff to work, get your money's worth and really make your weapons 'pop'.

Why do I have a Magnus, Lex, Lato, and Vasto?  They are so close to the same weapon that they are irrelevant.

My advice, take it or leave it, is keep people engaged, or they go find things that will.

[Kainosh]

13 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

but we are aiming to make it as intuitive as possible!

Don't overdo it.   (Hold direction + attack)  surely is simple and comfy, but there is no learning or timing. Melee enthusiasts do love a bit of complexity in combos...because its satisfying to pull off something, that requires certain amount of skill and practice.  

 Key to a good combo - well made windows. Be it pause, button alteration (aabbab) or such.... Combo windows are extra important and MUST be properly accompanied by Visual and Sound clues.

[Voltage]

How will melee quick swap affect Telos Boltace? Stormpath is arguably a downgrade from normal slide attacks as it pushes enemies away from the player. Tonfas are unique with slide attacks as they hit twice, and have a high base slide attack damage. I hope we don't get an unintentional nerf to an already nerfed Syndicate passive. Telos Boltace should be looked at, and Stormpath needs to be changed. It has been awful since release and given no attention.

[Ragingwasabi]

im disappointed block will be automatic. manually blocking an attack was so satisfying and just felt so cool. DE please at least make an option to change block back to manual.

[(XBOX)Salty Ginger]

Thankyou DE for all the hardwork you continue to put into this game. ❤️

[Zphrya]

Will we get new melee idles specific to warframe animation sets?

[Kimimoto]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

OPTIONS:
We are adding a toggle to preserve one aspect of the older melee system. You will be able to toggle an option, allowing you to continue melee attacks with the left mouse button once in melee mode.

Thanks, this was my biggest worry since I used left click to melee attack

[(PSN)Jatitan]

Cool hope i also could give my inspiration, in case u missed it here my link again

MY very 1st POST :   

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1013644-options-default-settings/

thx from me too, janek warning

[Luka-Song]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

BLOCKING

Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all!

Considering the aim button while in melee seems open, why not keep they keybind for blocking? I'm not too fond of this change as automatic things are a bore, there are enough instances of the game playing itself in other systems.

[Picasol]

Will there be bankai mode or devil trigger like mode that was shown before? Or is it gonna be removed

[ZinGrin]

On auto blocking, what about instances where you might want to take damage? 

How will it affect being able to backflip, side roll, or being able to move while facing a single direction?

[AlexMercer]

What is gonna happen with melee aimglide i prefer aimgliding with my melee out how is it gonna work in melee only sorties or if i only equip melee on my loadout will i still be able to aimglide or is it only for primary and secondary weapons?

 

[Avynire]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

CHANNELING
Channeling is now a toggle set to your alt-fire button when in melee mode.

so when swap to gun play the channeling turned off and need to be activated again when swinging melee? or keep active until no energy or turned off despite the change of weapon?

[OmegaVitae]

4 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Have some faith in DE. Try not to be a Chicken Little. The Sky is not falling. DE will take our feed back into account as they have said time and again through out the history of Warframe. You want proof of that? Khora was to be released as an IPS frame with the release of a revised damage system It did not happen. Why? Because DE listened to our feed back and retracted it. Melee, and weapon swapping need an update. It looks like on paper DE have come up with a good idea. Let's give it a try. If we do not like it, DE will either tweek it, as I am sure there will be tweeks, or scrap it all together. Relax. DE will see us right.

we can hope, certainly. however, if a nerf of melee is the actual intent, then that's an entire different story, and no feedback will undo that unless it manages to actually change that intent; they wouldn't take such a kidgloves tone in this post if they thought we'd be exicted or glad about what's being said, they'd do it because in-house they know it's needed, to couch something *not intended* to be good.

that's why i didn't ask about the mechanical changes, those are fluid as we've seen with the several differing internal iterations of melee 3 revealed over the past year; i asked about intent regarding melee's power level overall, because that's the part that's now questionable, and fairly unlikely to be recognized by enough people to give said feedback due to a "frog in a pot" effect caused by the piecemeal release.

[KokoroWish]

Having watched (and rewatched) the stream video, you have a toggle for the trigger continuing melee.

Can we have another toggle option in the options that allows us to go into melee block stance, instead of pulling out our gun when we press aim with our melee weapon out? When using that option, aiming and then firing a ranged weapon would then pull out the gun and fire it, switching to it.

For me that would have the best aesthetic feel for people that really like to melee heavily.

 

Or, you know actually, just have that happen passively because now I think about it, that'd make more sense just looking at it.

[cypherusuh]

1 hour ago, ZinGrin said:

On auto blocking, what about instances where you might want to take damage? 

autoblock only active if you're on melee mode, so just take out your guns 

1 hour ago, AlexMercer said:

What is gonna happen with melee aimglide i prefer aimgliding with my melee out...

I think they dont change how this works, since holding right click makes you aim instead of blocking

I'm still worried on what will happens with polearm, since all of its stance is stupidly bad and slow compared to other weapon. it would be sucks if polearm is forced to be meme strike weapon w/ nerfed range

[-Syo-]

spin to win forever ❤️

[WMan22]

This looks cool as long as it's not going to be an overall nerf.

I hope we get eventually DMC style non-ragdoll gun juggling of live enemies in the final version of 3.0, it just makes a lot of sense and would heavily increase the fun factor and skill ceiling of this new system.

[HirundoRustica]

Hi all,

Since the new auto-block requires your reticle to be aiming at an attacking enemy, how would the new auto-block imitate the "old" blocking stance when the camera is facing away from the enemy and your Warframe is blocking an offscreen enemy attack?

I'm hoping that the camera can face any direction, meanwhile my Warframe can run into cover and block frontal attacks in respect to the Warframe.

P.S. How accurate would the reticle placement need to be to block in the new system?

[SnuggleBuckets]

I was cautiously optimistic about the melee rework, but again, more questions raised than anything.
Channelling was notorious for being an utterly pointless system outside of life steal, and while blocking was underwhelming as well, a lot of systems had been built around it.
But you're keeping channelling and getting rid of blocking.
Why?
Now you have to work around and redesign combos, abilities, weapons that have been built around different block mechanics.
And though initially my reaction to the changes to the way bindings work was negative - I've slightly cooled down after just trying to visualize my left mouse as fire, right mouse as melee, thumb mouse as aim, and caps lock as secondary fire/channelling.
Still, leaves me questioning how this'll all work out, especially if combos will be more time based with the loss of blocking (unless you're going to redo stances with even more work, using WASD, crouch + space to give you the same range as before -- Hate the "hold" and "pause" combos in this hectic game with millions of particle effects obscuring my moves at any given time).

Again, I won't cry the end of the world just yet, but this "phase 1" leaves a lot of questions, and having those linger with "maybe they'll be solved in phase 2" does not make me hopeful.

[RegisteredLoser_3]

I dont know if DE already think of this or if it possible to be implemented in the first place, but here's the concept.
I believe it would be cool, if one combo can traverse to another.
For example- lets say we have two combos(A,B) with 4 moves on each.
Then you start combo A, make 2 hits, then switch to B and make 2 last attacks from that combo.
Or what about 4 combos 4 hits each, and making 1 attack from every one of them and make ULTIMATE COMBO WOMBO?😃
This will bring a lot of diversity in melee.