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[DE]Danielle

Nightwave - The Wolf of Saturn Six: A Farewell to Alerts

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I have to say that this makes me wince. Yet another faction to grind, yet another currency- but worse yet, one that expires. This seems like the opposite of a good idea.

The charm of being able to drop into a quick mission for an immediate reward on-spec was it freed you from all the interlocking freemium currency mess. It feels like Warframe doesn't need yet more layers of clutter like this.

Alerts are one of the few daily activities which aren't a rep grind. Without them, the game will be more of a featureless slurry of rep systems- less accessible for new players, more dull and uniform for experienced players.

Edited by Kattefjaes
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I hate this idea less now, but I'm still not fully convinced about it.

You say nothing about whether there's a limited amount of standing / currency we can earn, and if it is, then it's a very slippery slope to a "battle pass" with "surf your credit card to the end".
Especially considering we don't know how grindy this will be.

Edited by Shifted
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3 hours ago, CrackCook said:

just DONT make this a PAID season pass type thing... warframe is different to all the other trash games, lets keep it that way.

The end of the melee devworkshop stream had Steve and Reb explaining Nightwave, I think Steve was pretty serious that the update is entirely for gameplay, no money involved. (but if it's grindy to a point that people pay for some rewards that's a different story)

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First of all, I love the idea! I can't tell you how many times I missed out on that Equinox helmet because of work! Every time it would pop up on my phone at like 2am (for me) while I'm at work! I have the Helmet now but it's great we are getting easier access to alert rewards! 

Of course at this point I'm only missing maybe one or two helmets but for the new players who haven't been able to snag everything from alerts this is great!

I also think I've been waiting for Infested Impedance to pop up for awhile so that's something else I'll be looking forward to.

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12 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

No daily cap for Nightwaves! 

Does that mean DE are at least considering removing the cap on other standing?

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The worst part of this is that it'd feel like yet another boring medium-term obligation, rather than a quick, fun spontaneous activity like it is now. Rep grinds tend to suck the fun out of games, when you have too many of them.

Edited by Kattefjaes
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After seeing the "challenges"associated with Rivens, I hold this idea in severe contempt, We have the grind of a syndicate now made essential for ANY forward progression & An expiring currency, yeah, because it works so well with the Argon crystals & that doesnt infuriate anyone,

just change the credit type, color, symbol, or what have you each time the event comes around, that way sometime down the line those credits become valued, works well for Ducats right? Maybe even allow people to use these credits like Platinum, a second currency thats legit to EARN by all without having to finagle around with actual money, or being too low to even get plat from the void relic bits.

Ramp up the grind, but garner more community interaction, credits dont HAVE to expire, or at least let people use them or dispense them.

What happens when theres an entire week where people dont want to bother, like people with daily sorties with Rescue or spy in it, NEVER pug those, but when they come up, I myself dont bother, a week of rewards not worth the effort to obtain? Bad idea.

I HOPE it can work, but with what I see as it is, this has trainwreck on it if its not properly tested & checked that these issues dont ruin an otherwise thus far 6 years running functional system.

I like the random pop up runs, those are neat, could make alerts area dependant,  you only see it if your recent mission put you in that system, or make it uniquely tailored, imagine getting an alert for A reactor, BAM G3 ambush, or whole stalker crew waiting to rip you to ragged strips, could find ways to make what ya have fun too, no reason to do away with something thats worked fairly well, just get creative, you folks at DE obviously know how to do that, youve done damn well, just be careful your fixing something that isnt that broken.

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16 hours ago, ArautoDaBad said:

If I got it right, they meant it will expire after the series rotates. So when "The Wolf of Saturn" moves to...idk, "The Bear of Pluto", you will have to play the new Nightweave in order to get the rewards, thus preventing players from getting the goodies for free

"For free"?

How is grinding and earning points "for  free"?

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16 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Probably the same reason Argon does, to prevent you from building a megapile that you just build/buy everything with in the future.

I'm not sure I see your point...

If you put in the work and earn it, why should it be taken away?

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I don't understand all the skepticism. I'm waaay more hyped about the Nightwave than I was by Fortuna by a long shot. Save a few details that can be easily tweaked by the devs, everything sounds awesome. We asked for more story and lore, and now we'll have that on a constant basis throughout the year in the form of Nightwave seasons instead of one big story quest every year or so. There's a reason to log in daily/weekly now to follow the story, farm that season's rep and reap the rewards at the end (even if it's just potatoes, forma and a couple new skins). We asked for more events, and that also fits the bill, each season will be different, with a different theme and hopefully new challenges and rewards as well. 

Also I vastly prefer this rep/cred system where I have control over what I earn than say, sortie's RNG where I might end up getting a reward that is completely useless for me at that point in time (like an affinity booster when I have nothing to level those 3 days). That's why I stopped doing sorties daily a while ago. My only hope is that these weekly challenges or tiers of challenge will actually be fun, engaging and truly difficult instead of just stuff similar to the extremely boring riven challenges that you just cheese with the right loadout. But other than that everything looks amazing, it'll be a great addition to the game.

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I really feel that the credits expiration for the series is still a little harsh on players who might basically lose out because they're not 100% clear on the start and end of the event or generally play the game more sporadically.

I can understand limiting any special/exclusive event offerings, but I feel like players should at least be able to spend whatever they've accumulated on the "evergreen" rewards that are available, regardless of whether they logged in to spend creds before the event ended.

I'm kind of assuming a healthy gap between Nightwave events, (but maybe DE will surprise us). But my worry is with players who might be hopping on one or two weekends a month, participating hard in these alert events, then ending up with wasted creds because they happened to log back in just after the first event wrapped up, and no way to earn more Nightwave related credits or rewards until the next Nightwave.

Edited by LapuLapo
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20 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I don't understand all the skepticism. I'm waaay more hyped about the Nightwave than I was by Fortuna by a long shot. Save a few details that can be easily tweaked by the devs, everything sounds awesome. We asked for more story and lore, and now we'll have that on a constant basis throughout the year in the form of Nightwave seasons instead of one big story quest every year or so. There's a reason to log in daily/weekly now to follow the story, farm that season's rep and reap the rewards at the end (even if it's just potatoes, forma and a couple new skins). We asked for more events, and that also fits the bill, each season will be different, with a different theme and hopefully new challenges and rewards as well. 

Also I vastly prefer this rep/cred system where I have control over what I earn than say, sortie's RNG where I might end up getting a reward that is completely useless for me at that point in time (like an affinity booster when I have nothing to level those 3 days). That's why I stopped doing sorties daily a while ago. My only hope is that these weekly challenges or tiers of challenge will actually be fun, engaging and truly difficult instead of just stuff similar to the extremely boring riven challenges that you just cheese with the right loadout. But other than that everything looks amazing, it'll be a great addition to the game.

You can't get forma from it, you must not have read all of it, they said they're taking forma out. Also synthula, no more synthula to obtain, so if you have any, you are lucky to have it.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)Ice Guardian said:

You can't get forma from it, you must not have read all of it, they said they're taking forma out.

 

17 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are swapping out the Blueprint reward from the current Alert system to a bundle of built Forma that will be part of the Reward Tiers list in Nightwave.

 

Well, someone clearly didn't read all of it.

Edited by Lapideus
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What's the length of spaces in between each 'season'? Will there be a seamless transition or will there be weeks where we'll be unable to use the Nightwave store?

Glad there's going to be a proper in-game way of earning Taters now, which won't involve loads of RNG (sorties and there being a Devstream on that week).

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As a whole, I love this.

I don't really care about the rep expiring since I have practically everything and I'll just spend before it cycles over, but I know how your target audience will feel about it, and it's not a great idea, they're already going to grit their teeth at a new syndicate, let alone make the rep expire.

Just seems like you're overplaying your hand, DE...

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5 minutes ago, Lapideus said:

 

 

Well, someone clearly didn't read all of it.

Lol I read it, sassyfrass. You tell me what; "it will be apart of the reward tiers list" sounds like....

Sounds a lot like sortie-like rng drops doesn't it?... not a easy grind method.

Not something as "consistent" and more available to obtain as they claim motive for doing all of this in the first place.

Why would forma be easily obtained?

Yea, I doubt it will be something grindable.

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18 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

What the current system lacks: 

  • Reliability: Missing a time limited mission with an Alert-only reward means waiting for it to rotate back into the live Alerts, at which time you may not be available (work, school, walking the dog, sleep, you know, the important stuff!). 
    • Creates roadblocks to earning some of the essentials for new players (ex: Aura Mods), and general required crafting resources (ex: Nitain).

(emphasis mine)

Finally. The problem with alertium, the fact that its implemenation is flawed to the core, persisting through its entire lifecycle of three and a half years, will finally, FINALLY be resolved.

Thank you for at long last realising that your game is not the centre of the universe and that the playerbase's lives do not revolve around it, hanging on every word ready to drop whatever it is they're doing at no notice just to be able to progress.

Perhaps now I might finally be able to treat every single prime frame since Saryn as more than worthless mastery trash because of this.

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I'm looking forward to it, I critique the rep expiration problem for other players who I hear daily complain about argon crystal decay, and syndicate daily limits and grind. If they change the expiration of rep everyone will have no objections, other than the rep grind, hopefully they take the outdated Sydicate limit as well.

Ultimately, you are doing an awesome job DE, I don't always love your decisions, but love your game, and I pray melee 3.0 isn't a developer suicide attempt, and look forward to this new syndicate and lore.

Im double excited to find out what exactly kuva is.

Edited by (XB1)Ice Guardian
Grammar

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)Ice Guardian said:

Lol I read it, sassyfrass. You tell me what; "it will be apart of the reward tiers list" sounds like....

Sounds a lot like sortie-like rng drops doesn't it?... not a easy grind method.

Not something as "consistent" and more available to obtain as they claim motive for doing all of this in the first place.

Why would forma be easily obtained?

Yea, I doubt it will be something grindable.

It sounds to me like a prize for ranking up with the Nightwave syndicate. You know, like how you get to choose one free item from the main syndicates' offerings or the Cetus/Fortuna shops the first time you reach a new rank?

Edited by Lapideus

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15 minutes ago, Lapideus said:

It sounds to me like a prize for ranking up with the Nightwave syndicate. You know, like how you get to choose one free item from the main syndicates' offerings or the Cetus/Fortuna shops the first time you reach a new rank?

You edited your comment, it was very nasty towards me at first.

You need to chill.

Not sure if you're trying to bait me into an argument. I'm blocking you, and ignoring you and this topic now so that I can stay neutral, and out of trouble.

For the record the guy didn't specify to farm or reap rep or rewards, listing things gets a bit hazey when you don't separate 'em.

Just like if I were to say I love to reap grineer, and farm corpus 

It's easy to mistake that as a jumble of verbs and nouns when referenced, so if I misunderstood, my b.

If he would have clarified that instead as to farm rep, and separated the sentence and added a new sentence stating that the forma and skins are rewards to reap AS A SYNDICATE RANKUP, it would be still unclear his meaning of "reap" as reap has a wide meaning when used in that context.

Farmers reap their crops in massive amounts, it's the most common, fundamental, and practical use of the verb; "farm".

Gotta love the English language...

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33 minutes ago, (XB1)Ice Guardian said:

I'm looking forward to it, I critique the rep expiration problem for other players who I hear daily complain about argon crystal decay, and syndicate daily limits and grind. If they change the expiration of rep everyone will have no objections, other than the rep grind

Well, that's just it, "other than the rep grind". If most of the activities in the game become a rep grind, it'll alienate players.  MMOs discovered this a long time ago, if you don't balance the rep grind with substantial, fun spontaneous content (reasonably challenging dungeons etc.) then the whole game just becomes busywork. There are already lots of core systems locked behind rep grind in Warframe- feels a bit like "if you only have a hammer, you see every problem as a nail".

Caution is needed when replacing any of the remaining non-rep grind content with yet more grind.

Edited by Kattefjaes
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This is a step in the right direction, DE.

I've seen too many Tenno leave the game because they didn't feel their free time was respected. My favorite high level clan member whom I would effortlessly top the charts of ESO with, stopped playing in order to start a relationship. The grind was far too time intensive, even for vets. I really hope my friends come back with these continued changes to rewards.

By showing the Tenno you respect their time, I feel they will stick with you till the end. 🙂

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I only have two concerns with these changes:  

 

1)  Without a booster, the average amount of void traces you get from a fissure mission is 18.  Those 20 trace alerts were actually not a terrible deal.  Could we have voidd traces from fissures raised from 6-30 to 10-30?  

 

2)  The alert system is basically "set it and forget it"  It requires very little upkeep on the dev side (I assume).  If Nightwaves have Lore and performance (v.o. and mocap) components, are we going to wind up with a Hydroid Prime trailer situation where we're stuck with stale rewards because someone is dragging their feet?

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