[Warframe Rework Suggestion] Ember: The PHOENIX Rework {Reaction to Devstream #131 Ember Showcase}

[Benour]

Just wanted to say that her passive as it is now is simply useless i used to play her alot and got caught on fire like twice in like 5 years (ok im exaggerating haha but you get my point). 

Also i agree Wisp 4 would totally fit Embers theme. Also the only skill i really like is Flash Accelerant (aug) like to buff team and CC and i like to spamm it alot (helps alot with surviving). Her 1 i never used not even single time in actual mission. Her 3 well i dont really use/need since i spamm Accelerant. Her 4 should be onehanded action. Also like this idea about range, closer the enemy is, more dmg they take and vice versa.

Anyway good luck she really need something she literally have to rise again like a phoenix haha. 

[FoxFX]

On 2019-04-14 at 12:14 PM, Benour said:

Just wanted to say that her passive as it is now is simply useless i used to play her alot and got caught on fire like twice in like 5 years (ok im exaggerating haha but you get my point). 

Also i agree Wisp 4 would totally fit Embers theme. Also the only skill i really like is Flash Accelerant (aug) like to buff team and CC and i like to spamm it alot (helps alot with surviving). Her 1 i never used not even single time in actual mission. Her 3 well i dont really use/need since i spamm Accelerant. Her 4 should be onehanded action. Also like this idea about range, closer the enemy is, more dmg they take and vice versa.

Anyway good luck she really need something she literally have to rise again like a phoenix haha. 

I'll talk further on the demo'd Wisp 4th ability (although I have a feeling [DE] may change it), and I will share my in-depth thoughts on it in relation to Ember.

[FoxFX]

I have been taking less time due to some outside events I need to attend, but I will post a few more points in this article soon about Ember and this ongoing discussions about having her ability be this new Wisp's 4th.

Afterwards, I will work on the next Warframe being Nyx.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

This is not a rant. This is more of bewilderment if anything else.

So I found out that we are receiving a new frame called “Wisp” or something. She has a press 4 ability that lets her control the power of the sun as a laser beam. Funny, I could swear that many no...hundreds of posts were made back in the day about Ember having this ability. Why would they do Ember like this “again” without explaining the reasons? From the look of Wisp’s kit that sun beam seemed so out of place. Why didn’t the devs literally just remake Ember’s kit with that level 4 Sun beam in mind? All they had to do was get rid of “fire ball” and turn “Accelerant” into the new level 1. So it would be (1) Accelerant, (2) Fire Blast, (3) World on Fire, (4) Sun Beam. That is a kit that could bring Ember back to endgame. 

I’m more so trying to grasp my thoughts about how easily Ember gets overlooked by the devs. I’m not hating on anyone else either. Seeing the recent complaints of your favorite frames getting nerfed is child’s play compared to Ember mains in endgame. All I can say is welcome to the family. We have been there and done that before you guys had that bitter taste of neglect in your mouths. 

 

So...yeah...

Wisp is a outliner with a “should have been” ability for Ember’s new kit. I don’t really know what else to cover. If the devs read this then hopefully you can see I’m a bit confused by your decisions.

[Nez-Kal]

Oh hey! A Click-Bait Title~!

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

2 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Oh hey! A Click-Bait Title~!

Should I have put “Feelings about Wisp and Ember” instead?

I would like your opinion for a proper title.

[Gabbynaru]

Solution: Screw Ember and PRAISE THE SUN! \[T]/

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

Just now, Gabbynaru said:

Solution: Screw Ember and PRAISE THE SUN! \[T]/

For real?

Actually, I think the devs have the same brain chemistry as you do. They probably say the same thing before clocking out at work. 

[Nez-Kal]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Should I have put “Feelings about Wisp and Ember” instead?

I would like your opinion for a proper title.

Anything that would explain the Topic at hand. Remember, you're not arguing against me here, you're arguing against the Mod that'll tell you to change the title, or the one who will straight up change it for you.

[Zelmen]

2 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

one who will straight up change it for you

How far we have fallen that we can no longer teach but have to just do it for others.

[Gabbynaru]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

For real?

Actually, I think the devs have the same brain chemistry as you do. They probably say the same thing before clocking out at work. 

Good to see all that salt's finally inhibiting your ability to think straight, particularly when it comes to a joke.

Still, maybe this will clue you into what I am thinking here. I always saw Ember as more of a volcanic type of frame, so the idea of her literally wielding a sun makes very little sense to me. Wisp, on the other hand, is a ghost plant. Plants have this thing called photosynthesis, which allows them to harvest and use the energy of the sun. So with that in mind, a ghost plant literally photosynthesizing the power of a sun makes a lot more sense to me than a volcano ever doing such a thing. Don't get me wrong, volcanoes are strong, but their ability to control their power is extremely limited, and rather chaotic. Photosynthesis on the other hand is literally controlling the power of the sun.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Gabbynaru

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

6 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Wisp, on the other hand, is a ghost plant. 

I thought she was something something, portals? Idk man, these frame designs are getting confusing.

[FoxFX]

Been thinking of renaming the 4th ability, but for now, giving a hint in the title as to what I have intended redesigning Ember into.

[Chewarette]

I think the Sun is... acceptable on Wisp, as @Gabbynaru said it would be weird on Ember.

But now that Wisp has an AWESOME-looking ultimate, Ember's World on Fire feels lamer than ever.

Time to rework that World on Fire to make us feel the World is truly (truely ?) on fire. Phoenix-y-like !

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

I think the Sun is... acceptable on Wisp, as @Gabbynaru said it would be weird on Ember.

But now that Wisp has an AWESOME-looking ultimate, Ember's World on Fire feels lamer than ever.

Time to rework that World on Fire to make us feel the World is truly (truely ?) on fire. Phoenix-y-like !

But how would it work? Great suggestion but the foundation and complexity of how the mechanics would work is still unknown.

make a description of how it will work. 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

make a description of how it will work. 

Ember's 4:  now a whirlwind of fire.  Accellerant is cast in a cone in front of you, and the whirlwind extends out towards all affected targets, engulfing them and dealing bonus damage consistent with old accelerant.  Casting your 3 further increases the range of your 4 while within the radius of your 3 and converts its damage to radiation.  Casting your 1 on an enemy affected by both your 2 and 4 deals +500% bonus radiation damage with a guaranteed proc.

Only issue would be balancing the visuals.

Edited May 6, 2019 by (PS4)BenHeisennberg

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

29 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Good to see all that salt's finally inhibiting your ability to think straight, particularly when it comes to a joke.

Still, maybe this will clue you into what I am thinking here. I always saw Ember as more of a volcanic type of frame, so the idea of her literally wielding a sun makes very little sense to me. Wisp, on the other hand, is a ghost plant. Plants have this thing called photosynthesis, which allows them to harvest and use the energy of the sun. So with that in mind, a ghost plant literally photosynthesizing the power of a sun makes a lot more sense to me than a volcano ever doing such a thing. Don't get me wrong, volcanoes are strong, but their ability to control their power is extremely limited, and rather chaotic. Photosynthesis on the other hand is literally controlling the power of the sun.

I’m calmer than ever. And a Volcano you say? But isn’t that your personal opinion? I mean, you did say “I always saw” before describing Ember. You make good points about the photosynthesis analogy but plants are burned or killed by fire. Radiation or solar energy is not the same as the actual power of the sun. I think they took the Kryptonian thing and ran with it. 

Ember is a fire esper/user. That is a fact. I won’t say what I think she is or whatever but Fire is fire. And the sun is made of a whole lot of plasma/fire.

Edited May 6, 2019 by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Ember's 4:  now a whirlwind of fire.  Accellerant is cast in a cone in front of you, and the whirlwind extends out towards all affected targets, engulfing them and dealing bonus damage consistent with old accelerant.  Casting your 3 further increases the range of your 4 while within the radius of your 3 and converts its damage to radiation.  Casting your 1 on an enemy affected by both your 2 and 4 deals +500% bonus radiation damage with a guaranteed proc.

Only issue would be balancing the visuals.

No going to lie, that sounds cool as hell.

[BansheePrime]

Ember never once had such an ability. She did once have a massive damage reduction ability that also dealt damage that ignored enemy armor though.

[Gabbynaru]

Just now, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

I’m calmer than ever. And a Volcano you say? But isn’t that your personal opinion? I mean, you did say “I always saw” before describing Ember. You make good points about the photosynthesis analogy but plants are burned or killed by fire. Radiation or solar energy is not the same as the actual power of the sun. I think they too the Kryptonian thing and ran with it. 

Ember is a fire esper/user. That is a fact. I won’t say what I think she is or whatever but Fire is fire. And the sun is made of a whole lot of plasma/fire.

Well, personal opinions are always involved when it comes to... anything, frankly. For example, DE calls Oberon a Paladin, but people see him as anything but a Paladin. So, regardless of what DE says, people will make their own opinions, based on a lot of things. Visuals, gameplay, sound... whatever it may be. So, whatever Ember may be, to me she's a Volcano frame. Her abilties are themed around lava/magma, she was released alongside the gas city, whose most prominent room at the time was the one with the lava tube, World on Fire looks like magma spews from cracks... she's Volcano themed to me.

And let's be honest here, if what DE said about Wisp's Sun were true (portal to the surface of the sun or something like that), then... well, you ain't getting a beam of heat, but just a huge wave of heat that will immediately ignite everything on fire and melt everything. Frankly, a portal will never be able to do what DE is portraying with Wisp's Sun. Reality doesn't exactly mix well with superpowers. But, as my subjective experience works, I personally have mental association between a powerful solar beam and photosynthesis, and that's from playing Pokemon. A move called Hyperbeam does basically the same thing. So, combined with Wisp's plant-based design, the mental association was immediately formed.

[Ham_Grenabe]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

I thought she was something something, portals? Idk man, these frame designs are getting confusing.

Frame themes are so 2016. It's just "Do we have 4 powers to slap together?"

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Frame themes are so 2016. It's just "Do we have 4 powers to slap together?"

I immediately read that in a "basic white girl" voice 🤣

[Ham_Grenabe]

Just now, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

I immediately read that in a "basic white girl" voice 🤣

Aside from my beard, that's pretty much me.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

1 hour ago, BansheePrime said:

Ember never once had such an ability. She did once have a massive damage reduction ability that also dealt damage that ignored enemy armor though.

Can you explain what you mean and who this was directed to. Also, if it is towards me then I never stated that Ember had this ability. I addressed the possibility of it being apart of her revamp kit. 

[Chewarette]

9 hours ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

But how would it work? Great suggestion but the foundation and complexity of how the mechanics would work is still unknown.

make a description of how it will work. 

I had already posted something on another topic, the idea was something like that :

1- It should be impressive. She needs to go full Phoenix, hovering over the floor, literally on fire, radiating damage.

2- Make it deal a huge amount of damage around her every two seconds, with 25% Fire status chances, and 10-20% reduced armor for every damage instance.

3- Add interactions with Ember's other spells. For example, any Ring of Fire (3) within World on Fire's range will pulse damage every two seconds, dealing X fire damage with 100% status chance. Any enemy affected by Accelerant will leave a flame patch below him upon death, dealing X fire damage and lasting Y seconds. If Ember is affected by Accelerant's buff, World on Fire damage instances occur every second instead of every two seconds.

4- Add a "defensive" component, which Ember still lacks. Give her a 95% damage reduction while in World on Fire, with the justification that all the projectiles melt before reaching her because of her intense heat.

Imo that would be enough to solve most of her problems.

- This would add a defensive solution to Ember

- Interactions with 2 and 3 will prevent her from "Activate and Forget" type of gameplay

- The 10-20% reduced armor per tick would give her a point in high level Grineer content, as she's currently lacking some kind of scaling today, as her main problem with high level content is that Fire damage will forever be lame, when compared with viral/corrosive/poison/slash stuff.

- She'd finally become back the Queen of Fire damage, instead of seeing her main point stolen by Wisp. Wisp can harness a small part of the Sun ? Let Ember BECOME that Sun. 

Visually, the same thing as Jean Grey's phoenix !