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FoxFX

[Warframe Rework Suggestion] Ember: The PHOENIX Rework {Reaction to Devstream #131 Ember Showcase}

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I've touched on the idea of reworking Heat Damage before in this thread and why I feel there is a way to work around that suggestion before. If I cannot find that section soon, I will regather my thoughts on that subject and make a new section on the OP.

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Once I return from a trip, I'll get back to posting some thoughts I have highlighted in this thread.

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Posted (edited)

and my rework is up now... don't set a due date for yourself then waste time getting entranced by fire's majesty. it doesn't bode well lmao

I'll just post the url here and keep it as just the url not the post thingy.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1103008-empress-of-insatiable-flames-embers-rework/

Color coding did help with making it all readable thankfully.

Edited by (PS4)chibitonka

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On 2019-06-14 at 11:24 PM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

and my rework is up now... don't set a due date for yourself then waste time getting entranced by fire's majesty. it doesn't bode well lmao

I'll just post the url here and keep it as just the url not the post thingy.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1103008-empress-of-insatiable-flames-embers-rework/

Color coding did help with making it all readable thankfully.

 

Read through practically all of what you have prepared and I do admire the creativity you attempted with this. It'' be a while before I dissect each idea you made in your forum.

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7 hours ago, FoxFX said:

 

Read through practically all of what you have prepared and I do admire the creativity you attempted with this. It'' be a while before I dissect each idea you made in your forum.

no biggy. is alot to go through afterall xD

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18 hours ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

no biggy. is alot to go through afterall xD

I've shared my thoughts on your article.

OT: Will point out the section on the suggestion for "change Heat Damage" and my thoughts on this uncommon suggestion soon after.

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Posted (edited)

I really like this, but I prefer MyUnhealthyHobby's 3rd and 4th abilities, with his "combustion/overheat" counters (forgot what he named them though)

EDIT: I'll be happy/grateful if any of these awesome ember ideas get used. You guys are all doing an awesome job coming up with cool ideas. 

I hope DE isn't getting overwhelmed, or fedup with ember rework suggestions xD

Edited by Maka.Bones

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3 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

I really like this, but I prefer MyUnhealthyHobby's 3rd and 4th abilities, with his "combustion/overheat" counters (forgot what he named them though)

EDIT: I'll be happy/grateful if any of these awesome ember ideas get used. You guys are all doing an awesome job coming up with cool ideas. 

I hope DE isn't getting overwhelmed, or fedup with ember rework suggestions xD

lmao. de probably like how many rework suggestions for her?! xD

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I'll be going over a Dev Workshop topic about the Infusion Augment changes soon and as to how this could affect Ember.

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How warframe community thinks when making a fan made rework:

1. Increase damage just for powercreep

2.must have an ability that reduces armor for some reason 

3.double the everything (especially damage)

 

This is why we can't have nice things...and this why the game is boring

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On 2019-07-27 at 8:40 AM, AlouetteSK said:

Did not feel like making another thread for suggesting things for reworking Ember, but just wondering if you all have any opinions on my own: 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1094133-myunhealthyhobby’s-ember-rework-idea/?do=findComment&comment=10912108

 

 

Usually when it comes to reworks I try to just adjust the function of the current Warframes abilities. However, I will disect each ability and bring out my impressions:

 

THE PASSIVE: Thermodynamics

Much like the passive I suggested in the OP, having heat procs empower Ember further is something I feel can be played around with. I didn't see if the damage buff gained from your passive idea is a stacked/decaying buff in a similar nature to how Saryn's Spore mechanics work out. Might want to elaborate more on this. As for the self-revival note you made, I wanted to present a "phoenix" self-revival gimmick in the form of the OP's suggested 4th ability and a suggested Fire Blast Augment called "Phoenix Blast" which allows Ember to self-revive herself with a Fire Blast when downed (with a high cooldown). I feel having an active ability that can do that would amp up the appeal of the Warframe.

 

Firebolt

I have received a lot of flack in this thread when it came to abilities that have "hold down to charge" gimmicks. I understand it is something that is viable at times, but for the time being I wold advise to abstain from making that suggestion. There is also the Dev Workshop news going around about the "Infusion Augment" changes and I will go deeper into the subject.

 

Accelerant

For also the sake of what it does now, I wouldn't make too much suggestions to change it...not a lot. There is however something I am looking and researching into the current mechanics of Accelerant and what it means for the new Infusion Augment changes.

 

Overdrive

I get that Ember is a caster Warframe and does need a lot of energy to perform her attacks. My concern is that there is already many different ways an individual player can gain Energy. Whether it be form other Warframes (Harrow, Trinity), Energy Restores, Zenurik's Focus Tree, Rage Mods, use of the Energy Orb Arcane, Warframe abilities that can increase enemy loot drops...the list can go on. I feel this suggestion was inspired by the ability style of Garuda where she sacrifices her Health to gain Energy which I feel some players may pick up on and think it could be a ripoff.

Don't get me wrong though; I think this is something a lot more players should think over and discuss along with the passive idea you presented.

 

World on Fire

When I made this thread, I stated that Ember already has a bit too many attack-type Abilities in her arsenal; that she has 3 different ways to set enemies on fire and a quick AOE stun. It was then that I stated that there had to be a choice between sacrificing World on Fire or Fire Blast to make way for a more active and stronger playstyle. I chose to suggest relinquishing World on Fire simply because of how it already invalidates Fireball and Fire Blast,

World on Fire has at the start the same base damage as an uncharged Fireball and gains more damage the longer it is active making it already a much quicker and more convenient DPS ability, It also is an AOE which travels with Ember and deals more burst than Fire Blast.

There is also DE's convoluted stance on one-press abilities or abilities that "tend to work for the player themselves." A big example of how they try to handle these things is Mesa's Peacemaker which originally was just a one-press ability then Mesa can just go ham on any enemy within a certain radius. Few patches later, they retconed Peacemaker to now require players to aim.

I tried to present this idea with this OP's rework suggestion. I am not too fond of keeping World on Fire at this time because of these few points and a few more in general, but this is just my perspective on things.

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On 2019-07-27 at 9:18 AM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

How warframe community thinks when making a fan made rework:

1. Increase damage just for powercreep

2.must have an ability that reduces armor for some reason 

3.double the everything (especially damage)

 

This is why we can't have nice things...and this why the game is boring

 

I don't quite understand if you are against the ideas I presented or not. Are you refering to this threads or the ideas AlouetteSK presented?

 

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On 2019-07-27 at 9:18 AM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

How warframe community thinks when making a fan made rework:

1. Increase damage just for powercreep

2.must have an ability that reduces armor for some reason 

3.double the everything (especially damage)

 

This is why we can't have nice things...and this why the game is boring

Mostly it's obvious why, other newer frames, do more for "less". Armor DR rampup is a problem for almost everyone that doesn't have armor breaking skills. There's also lots of newer frames that now outdamage the older ones. The old balance got way behind.

Like I've been saying since they nerfed her, She really needs back that range. I think a 75% range nerf to WoF is not worth at all the extra energy nerf and damage buff. What good is x2 damage if the range is 5m? At that range you can kill them faster with your melee since it's in range. So Ember already has built in moderation to her WoF by the way mods effect it. To get more Strength you need to sacrifice range, and efficiency. To get more range and efficiency you need to get rid of more strength.  It's self regulating in that regard. You can either have weak flames that last forever, or very strong flames that quickly eat up your energy. Or like most of the vets that used her for later stages of the game you found a good middle ground on range CC with fire quake and efficiency to endure long tracks of activity while you kill off waves of enemy between cover.

So revert her WoF to the way it was. Some of my changes are just smaller ones to the way she existed previously that would make her fair much better in the later game content.

Fireball: Get rid of the stupid charge up and the LoS blocking ball of obstruction and simply make it work like the Cat lady and wolf prisoner molotov's. Where it hit's a explosion, followed by fire on the ground.

Accelerant: Keep it the same it's her only amazing ability pretty much right now.

Fireblast: This is the one that can use some utility work. Instead of the hard to use gimick of gaining heat damage if shot through (That you literally have to crouch or it won't work due the flames being so low IIRC) Make it have a synergy with accelerant. IF the enemy is effected by her 2 they will explode and have armor shattering effects in additions to the blast proc. Due to the nature of Heat procs now getting past the armor to the bonus damage against flesh is always nice. Could also have the exploded bad guys drop more fire on the ground around them.

WoF: Revert it to the way it was, however perhaps have it changed that the further away the target from Ember the less damage it takes, and the less chance it has of getting a heat proc. Like making the Ember the source of the heat, the closer you are to it the more heat damage you take. Other wise the only major update it needs is heat damage itself.

I personally always thought she was just fine before the current changes, only thing holding her back was how bad heat was vs shields and armor especially.  The ticks of DoT never updated to highest only restarted timers and so forth.

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THOUGHTS ON THE DEV WORKSHOP AUGMENT REVISIT {7/25/19}

A few days ago, [DE] released a new Dev Workshop post revealing plans on revisiting Augments. In one part, they have mentioned possible changes to the "Elemental Infusion" Augments:

Quote

Fireball Frenzy - Fireball Augment - Ember
Freeze Force - Freeze Augment - Frost
Smite Infusion - Smite Augment - Oberon
Venom Dose - Spores Augment - Saryn
Shock Trooper - Shock Augment - Volt 

  • Holding the casting button will send out a wave (much like similar, expanding Warframe Abilities) giving the elemental buff to every player it touches, including the caster

For a few Warframes, I can see this as a very nice change. However, for Ember, I see a few problems.

For one, there is already an Augment that buffs Heat damage like Fireball Frenzy: Flash Accelerant. Though not to a high degree as Fireball Frenzy can be, I feel in the case of Ember it is just some added tech to fix the current problem establishing her role and effectively making that role apparent.

With how most damage/buff based Warframe builds tend to be, I foresee that this Fireball Frenzy change might move Ember builds to focus mostly on Flash Accelerant and Fireball Frenzy with enough high strength and low efficiency.

There is also the issue about the general community very vocal on "hold down to charge" Warframe abilities to consider. Ember's Fireball has that gimmick and I feel this Augment can conflict with the charge mechanic of Fireball.

But these are just concerns on how this Augment will be implemented and how it will affect Ember in the future.

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In time, this thread will be passed on to work on an idea for Conclave. For now, I'd like to hear some thoughts on the Augment Revisit Dev Workshop and see your opinion on how it will affect Ember.

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With the new patch on the Augments, the Fireball Frenzy augment will be one that will have players testing out how this will change Ember. Will await a while to see your reflections on this.

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15 hours ago, Brey223 said:

Pretty solid ideas. 

Thanks. Might adjust a few things with Fireball now that the new Fireball Frenzy changes are here.

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With how FIreball Frenzy works and conflicts with the charge mechanic of the original Fireball, there is room to adjust a few tings for Ember. I will come back to note on this soon.

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Does that mean that with the augment on, Ember has to fully charge Fireball to give allies buffs? If so, is the charge time, with the augment, lowered at least?

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14 hours ago, Blexander said:

Does that mean that with the augment on, Ember has to fully charge Fireball to give allies buffs? If so, is the charge time, with the augment, lowered at least?

 

Apparently no. It takes just a few milliseconds to kick the Fireball Augment effect. Placing the Fireball Augment replaces the original Fireball's charge effect completely.

This fact I will get into talking about indefinitely.

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On 2019-02-22 at 5:10 PM, FoxFX said:

ABILITY 1 - FIREBALL

  • [Additional change] Fully-charged Fireball burns 50% of enemy Armor.

of enemy max armour, other way would be useless.

revive machenics as phoenix you should try to implement.

The furnace mechanics is fine, but I think as a phoenix, when the furnace is full, if you die, you revive, an loose all the heat, also procs with 100% status chance fire on surrondings enemies.

general idea 7/10.(I could not do better, but it's not perfect)

 

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On 2019-08-13 at 11:42 PM, PabloX732 said:

of enemy max armour, other way would be useless.

revive machenics as phoenix you should try to implement.

The furnace mechanics is fine, but I think as a phoenix, when the furnace is full, if you die, you revive, an loose all the heat, also procs with 100% status chance fire on surrondings enemies. 

general idea 7/10.(I could not do better, but it's not perfect)

 

 

Fireball suggestion will be changed due to the new Fireball Frenzy Augment changes. Will get back to it soon after a few testing and theorizing.

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I have been pondering after the whole new Fireball Frenzy changes if the original Fireball's charge mechanic should be removed and have the ability reduce armor of enemies on impact. Though unlike the 50% reduction I presented in OP, it might be reduced for balance purposes. But this overall is hypothetical unless the topics presented are talked further.

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