[Warframe Rework Suggestion] Ember: The PHOENIX Rework {Reaction to Devstream #131 Ember Showcase}

[FoxFX]

23 hours ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

I noticed you recently updated your thread yesterday and I was wondering exactly what changes you made? 

I had to address an ongoing suggestion going around to change Heat Damage Type's Proc.

In the OP, I've added a section which explains why this might not be the best idea balance-wise.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

6 hours ago, FoxFX said:

I had to address an ongoing suggestion going around to change Heat Damage Type's Proc.

In the OP, I've added a section which explains why this might not be the best idea balance-wise.

I see. You have a point and I think I tried to address this earlier. Unfortunately, that’s one of the reasons why I just raised my Ember’s Accelerant Damage multiplier in my Rework kit. Of course having something that can strip enemy armor was also a factor as well. 

[SnakeBadger]

i think, that maybe all warframes elemental attacks should be unique in dealing their own types of elements as far as i can help at least looking at ambers configurations and attacks she could deal  special fire damage types that aren't found in mods or less, this is why i suggested that she is allowed to charge up attacks or focus her energies into the surrounding chi powers and maybe some additional passive traits or stances which would allow each ember to drift into a new focus or school, i cant really remember what i wrote, but it should be appart from a regular joe fireball especially with the new gauges and meters being added to the game, gauss has one and i barely know how to use it, but it should be more than just putting up world on fire and automatically killing evereything, if she has low HP or is performing aerial attacks, slides into close range, or is casting each ability with a change to focus her energy on the area, her 4th ability could be controlled abit more while recovering and shielding her squadrons, maybe that she can summon a few fighters made of fire for a new attack, or fireswords, firebullets mode like DBZ with some randomized button pressing to keep the attacking interesting like vauban's tools and toys, fire damage types and crowd control can be based on location and so can her new or improved abilities.

[SnakeBadger]

4th ability right now just allows u to shoot with a magical barrier that kills everything, its really bad because it just murders everything and doesnt have any recasting or modifiyers which would allow close range and standing or crouching to modify the abilities and ways to redirect or charge up the ability, if she was a phoenix or something greater, peacock skill,  range, new mods and what else we can make up so its not just another cliche pyromancer there should be some flexibility is all am saying, so am with you on fire damage types and control over her abilities, its been a while since i played ember, let me get back to you later.

 

BTW nekros is completely awful because his abilities suffer from speed and long casting times, he has no way to use anything original on his weapons and he cant call up any anymals or birds or fish, i think basically he lacks originality on the aspected universe of the dead, and hes my favorite so i can talk S#&$ regardless, the 1st ability he has is expeded quickly and lacks some flexivility on recast and pickup, even if charging up was posible its not as good as a two handed blast or a well grounded energy attack, and in mid-air theres no way to do anything special with his attack, its basically onepunch man, and i never even watched that anime, i just know its basically onepunchman, anyways, his or her other attacks are somewhat lacking recast, say if he summoned a few undead animals and skeletons or spirits it would be great to also use trees and animals, and nyx some enemies who have died into coming back right away, maybe with the slide and rolling mechanic that can also work on team mates, theres alot that can be done especially with the rocket jump to evoke a flying or suspended state, and that controlling matter or void or water of some spiritual sort for enhancing his abilities and future techniques, healing, and protecting is reasonable after playing so many final fantasy games, nekros should essentially be a summoner with fighting added, and have other physical modes and apparels, as well as unique pets and SFX, theres no current fighter i know that is cephalon based or that can use resources such as rubedo or plants, that we have mag, but she can't open lockers or chests with her abilities right now and they should open up and allow for easy hacking realistically things should malfunction when shes around, as for ember she should also cause some discrepancies with her new passives and weapon types or stances, especialyl if her body is covered with damaging acid or fire, nitrogen and oxygen causing enemies armor to melt or weaken normally but much of this is energy chemist talk, i would like a beer right now, but i dont have any money lol, it should prove to be nice day, anyways ttyl.

[SnakeBadger]

now we should examine embers warframe and counter attack from a defensive standpoint there are some mods which hurt enemies who approach her with melee attacks, recoil, and knockback without many passive traits or enhancements added, but if she takes damage right now mag would be the closest to launcher bullets back at her enemies but ember would somehow be able to reduce damage by regenerating health and having some rolling enhancements, anything will do. I hope that maybe she can sear and scatter a few changes i would love is seing that her aereal attacks with oxygen and acrobatics improve her abilities realistically, while her standing attacks and moving cause kinetic and light respectively, the ki and fire style attacks can be many like mesa with some flex, so her technology should allow for a quick way to tackle or run into enemies with some chance to deal status effect and AOE attacks, last thing to examine is that her back is exposed and a defensive system without any robotics it seems that while shes aiming and standing around or crouching predictable to get hurt, so we want to make sure we come up with some enhancing coat that triggers with her acrobatic and magic.

[SnakeBadger]

what about a gadget on her armor that surrounds her, which she can channel ans cast magic and attacks from, this can be a mode that triggers or opens up with her abilities, the closest to this is titania, so it might not work, but then again, if someone from titania can see something good from enhancing ember's warframe then go ahead with your tennogen and procure something inspiring, i think that this suit improvement should fix embers vulnerabilites and allow her to stow more secondary weapons and chanelling adjustments to allow her melee modes to be more impresive or unique, archwing ideas or passive traits would be good to think up a few mods which can make archwing more fun as ember, it can be a augment or riven to equip on the heavy or kitgunparts added or aquired, moa parts, etc.

[SnakeBadger]

bird costumes for operators, and glyphs with various tropical creatures

[SnakeBadger]

embers cofee finisher: Black magic would incenerate bodies and also useful to cancel attacks and counter bullets at close range the kineticombat is used like taichi to deflect & block some bullets or incoming fire from SMGs and enemy cannons, ducking and sliding shop to alternate her abilities with jumping and BJ fire attacks, bullet jump = BJ....why DE!!!! why!!!!! So its a fire proc butterfly kick instead of her usual bulelt jump which should allow shotting while spinning fire in an AOE and when she lands she pulls out her secondary enfeebled or another guard or stance change when rolling dependign on the players advancing gaits and sets. i think summoning a spear is next, but just to throw, it can just be aerial spear attack or another finisher from close range which can function from the floor or used to impale a enemy with low hp to drain their hp to steal and recover energy, bullets or armor, it can work like the energy mod which accumulates power with each ability, the melee +50 doesnt have a fancy animation so with ember it could be the flamming spear has a heavy amount of animations at close range with other weapons and summoned pistols or daggers, and stances which allow TP or MP to accumulate, and energy for abilities to be gathered through acrobatics and sprinting.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[SnakeBadger]

On 2019-09-26 at 6:48 PM, FoxFX said:

I may offer some insight on the Vauban change reveals after my work on the Nekros Feedback thread is complete. I do take notice there are more and more Ember suggestion topics being made recently.

But I truly believe that changing Heat Status Type is not the way to go. I will explain why soon.

am not sure where that thread is but i would love to see vauban and nekros rewored, such things that might help is being able to pickup or augment the tools that are deployed and some team robotics or special squadron powers for vauban especially if there are more than one vauban in the team, think about it, as soon as the rework or prime derivatives launches alot of people will be playtesting and giving alot of feedback, so its worth it to add some passive traits or sensors which can amplify or react with the other gadjets and machines in the field, maybe that vauban can enhance the lasers from mining as a weapon, and also have bonuses to the sprinklers in the coffeey room naughtydogs trickster is on a rollacoaster- and afford to have reload modifications and tricks to make other weapons such as the lex and fang more practical to use under vauban's grip beyond just adding electric and blast damage to their critical and chance numbers something interesting for a like of mods and aughment based or called V-tokens or watever with small requirements but made avaliable to the operators or tenno when they level up or try out different planets and weapons, i thought that a afficionado could be added to the mailing system or another MC who randomly smashes a text like red text but it would be like an RPG video game, instead of just a video email, some simple stuff that can be entertaining and can have rewards unlike nightwaave the other syndicates and NPC can randomly send a message and emails with gifts, mods, etc.

• uh the4n a workshop or area of workship in fortuna might make sense to integrate vauban things like mod shop or enthusiast with since its all about robots and androids there, for vauban to make or have uses with the kitguns and the new augments, and rework, and robotics that are added. this is what happens when you play too many mmorpgs such as FFXIV lol, you just think up like 50 ideas a second, anyways some thoughts for Nekros rework should be like ember increasing functional flexibility for players who like to recasts and when theres no energy avaliable to still permit for small functional tools to use in the different scenarios and planets domains, the nekros i play with aklex because i like devil maycry, but honestly had a hard time collecting souls of dogs and animals, and had no unique demons or anything which could maybe recoil or be used as shielding like the knights of the round or the royalist army in final fantasy i asume that a giant knight might apear to shield you in red hp but that be too energy costy, and the players need to try other new things, so i think neckros needs to control the melee and aerial attack improvems without feeling too repetitive,

the need for some shadow neckromancy and meatshields might be decent for nekros to pickup a corpse or use the enemies weapons with a meter of energy and build up from there to have some governing power over the living and dead, explosives and different weapons, so you aren;t just limited to firing a gun thats gonna run out of ammo, maybe nekros can replace the bullets with bites of data based on cephalon and other faction teachings with photons and otherwise aoe bullets which implode and stick like needles, especially at close range nekros should be able to 180 and dog the floor with regretmagic, tricks and some portals to open to access different weapons and bodies or warframes to keep it interesting to keep up with the mortal kombat crew and the ghosts from before the players can count on using the old abilities briefly without MP or Energy requirements, and during counter attacks, critical hits, and channelling to pull attention or summon, meanwhile the blood and items change shape with voooodooo and the teammates fire different or new type of bullet damage which can pause or stop enemies or hit with fire idk, anything like a pest or zombie arm or demon teleporting an infested that explodes or grabs enemies briefly, something like a white dog or a guardian anger/anger which can transform nekros into a good or evil entity to change the modes of combat might work for other players so they can choose sides and types of weapons batwings, angel wings, purifying, horrible time this halloween, or condrack candistract enemies in place of a energyorb

with energy usually the abilities are pretty linear and cant be used or annoy on recasts lets change something, also Ember should have a coating and use mirrors on her machinegun or a flashlight weapon tactical light can detour enemies,and some traps that are less firebased, so vauban can get his focus on improving other robotics and the weapons he can wield, while nekros can have new types of demons and weapons to call without energy requirements featuring various powerups, emotes, and shields of meat. demons to summon as well as angels that exorsise, some balance of light and darkness will prove useful themes for nekros but vauban and ember will need some of their own.

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[SnakeBadger]

i'd be great to include some failure animations for when players spam or are trying to recast etc.

temperature related animations, gases, light, sparking, smoke,amalgamations, and chemical reactions of water and weapons nearby which might help the realism of some levels and lore quality, glowing, and rainbow, with redirecting her fire attacks into more useful applications, the use of indirect fire can be applied to non-combat applications and tools or weapons, anybody?

• missing a fireball (a1 doesn't hit enemy) there should be something here to recompense. 
• hitting a wall with a fireball could cause blast damage like gauss smashing against a breakwall, inturn there can be a molten effect like in the problem above which might seem obvious setting for calcification and other chemical reactions or toxicity from the areas paints and metal conduits causing explosions and arcing electricity to flow briefly some sparks and low-k animations would do fine in illustrating, repeating the cast on the dame location might double the effects and explosions.
• Hardened doors might not open for second so enemies can't get through, secondary the mining areas where gemstones are in caves might have some reactions to ember and robotics in the future maybe the fishes and lakes, night mode, are some other examples of leaf and ashes burning grasses and trees nearby during the 4th ability and its future enhanced 

Edited October 2, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[SnakeBadger]

reading about diamonds ability to bend light, makes me think how ember could use these powers on her warframe or suit(s) accounting that some of her current abilities like a fireball would make for interesting granades and AOE additions, as well as resiliance from bullets as some common improvements that need to be abit more obvious with health regeneration and a few original mods or secondary fire.

• the aspect of being able to bend light is new to me, i hope somebody can add some uses for ember to have a passive use for the carbon and silicates of each areas maps, as well as for the oxygen vapors and bullet jumping that might agitate or accelerate her casting speed or any new meters and animations or mods equiped weapons might have a faster reload or added effective kinetic or laser/diamond coating, and sliding effects coould regenerate or charge up energy, a wheel approximates how well any of her new toys and magic will change later into something facy like the elemental wheels, maybe that low hp and status effects secretly theres a second metter filling up or a rocket gauge and motor on her shoes to make her into a skater or dash so s if she had skating shoes or could ram an enemy in some circumstances by surfing through lavatechtonics like iceman and jonnyblaze who create surfaces, ember should be twice as productive with the help of chemicals and accelerants, faster ember.

Edited October 2, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[FoxFX]

Today's Devstream is rumored that DE will announce some notes about Ember along with Vauban. I'll keenly look up what they will present and share thoughts on the matter later.

[SnakeBadger]

2 hours ago, FoxFX said:

Today's Devstream is rumored that DE will announce some notes about Ember along with Vauban. I'll keenly look up what they will present and share thoughts on the matter later.

i was sleeping, lets find that article

Edited October 4, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[SnakeBadger]

Edited October 4, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[FoxFX]

Will share some thoughts about the Devstream on the Ember showcase. Will also post a thread talking about the Minelayer soon.

May have a few concerns on the CC element of the new Fireblast, but overall I feel a bit convinced about these Ember plans.

[FoxFX]

DEVSTREAM EMBER SUMMARY

Quote

Heat Procs
Will be buffed to stack like other types. Has an armor strip as they're on fire, may be temporary or permanent, and may be all at once or over time.

Passive: 5% Power Strength per burning enemy within 10m range (Max Cap Unknown). PASSIVE WILL LIKELY BE INCREASED TO AFFINITY RANGE.

Fireball: Removed latency in animations and input.

[PH] Immolation: Heat meter, adds DR as the heat meter increases with some sort of big penalty if you overheat. 1 & 4 increase the meter, 3 decreases it.

Fire Blast: No duration, more AoE. Faster casting animation. More about armor stripping and CC (knockback). Consumes meter and reduces fill rate.

World On Fire: No longer drain over time. Meteor attack. Fire spreads on enemies as they panick. Builds heat meter.

 

I'd like to analyze these changes and see how they all interconnect with one another.

Having Heat Damage Type change will have a heavy impact on some weapon builds and indefinitely on Ember if the Armor Stripping is formidable enough to match with Corrosive.

Some have mentioned this, but this new passive of Ember is more of a side-grade to the one I presented in this thread. My variant deals with improving Status Damage. This one deals with improving Power Strength. I feel Status Damage would be a much better direction, but we will have to see how this one goes.

I feel removing the charge mechanic of base Fireball is necessary. With the new Elemental First Ability Augment changes, it leaves room for Fireball to have a second gimmick.

I was surprised they would bring back Overheat into Ember again. I can't say how much this would affect her gameplay, but it may improve her survivability in the field more especially in open world areas.

Removing he fire ring of Fire Blast was necessary. Having the third ability strip armor is going to make the ability one of the go-to abilities for higher level swarms especially combined with the Heat Damage changes and the possible effect the heat bar will have with the ability.

The current World on Fire was a lazy design, and I welcome the new one simply based on the utility it has. Enemies will be panicking with the possibility of spreading the heat proc to other enemies making this both a nuke setup for Ember's passive and a strong CC to spread.

[SnakeBadger]

yeah i approve of almost all the new changes with exception of some recast and animations lacking functionality, i thought it was fine but it was open to alot of improvements, they should throw the reworks on with some A, B options for players to have a choice to play classic or remaster.

 some teleportation and meter uses of walking and sprinting modes can be refined into good ideas,  ember has very default movement mechanics and barely any armor or strenghts to standout if she were to be enhanced in the future i hope that she gets some uniques.

 we need to get a video up on here. 

[SnakeBadger]

2 hours ago, FoxFX said:

I welcome the new one

yes her new 4th is useful, i think it can be charged up, but theres more room for ember to have additional things witout resorting to equiping augments or syndicate mods, it was really cool like a meteorite, am looking foward to more passive traits and unique physics for her movement/animations because she still looks really default , even if its a few tricks on her armor when she walks through burning enemies like irradiation or chromeplating, hex meshing which recovers hp/armor on ember's body and/or saves from status effects for a brief time melee attacks also the chance of explosion or other fire procs being added would be interesting to use the meters,

new meter tricks like wukong ? 

• all the burning bodies and aerial atricks need work which weren't demoed or displayed, but its really good so far, at least can have better slam attacks with added procs on melee /ability changes mid air - because of the atmosphere alchemies and robotics it could be fun to throw a spear or something instead of a fireball and some other non-energy tools, one last thing.
• maybe that she can see some elements and weapons fire better, or that energy of her bodyplates rubing or and smoke makes things smooth for her weapons and lockers to open, hacking consoles bonus, as well as reload bonus procs on arc, spark, and molten damage types suggestive to give ember some flavourful meter when she slides and jumps in the air.
• i havent played her storyline or received any particular interesting weapons or augments, so maybe that when these reworks come with some robotics and ideal weapons for archwing and robots get a new laser or chiblast proc on hit, besides the armor passive and meter spreading at max to other members, maybe regeneration can trigger with bullet jumping.
• atlas dint come with prime rework, so thats why i said ember storyline items and cosmetics are really dark, there are no enthusiast other than the tenno players and i can't help but to come up with a few ideas to make her more popular in the missions, there can be a glowing stone or pedestal say a element or water can react with her to give temporary camuflage when some abiliteis are triggered.
• so, she cast 4th near a pond or lake and the area can become dense.
•  
• the density of evaporation allows for shooting spears from jump, which are a result of nitrogen / oxygen or arcing vacum energy can be generated for special attacks to give the meter some new uses or regeneration for teleporting and enhancing gameplay.
• it shoulnt just be firebending because she has already mastered fire technically it should be about HOW YOU USE fire on the various levels, this way the loadouts and new rework fits perfectly with the world and not just the enemies
•  

Edited October 6, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[SnakeBadger]

On 2019-10-06 at 9:49 AM, SnakeBadger said:

• the density of evaporation allows for shooting spears from jump, which are a result of nitrogen / oxygen or arcing vacum energy can be generated for special attacks to give the meter some new uses or regeneration for teleporting and enhancing gameplay.
• it shoulnt just be firebending because she has already mastered fire technically it should be about HOW YOU USE fire on the various levels, this way the loadouts and new rework fits perfectly with the world and not just the enemies
•  

because ember is too raw needs a spear weapon and some field tricks that are enhanced with the meter, tattoes and tribesmen could be part of a relay tenno which workships fire / syndicacy, i did not play her storyline so i can't really give accurate feedback on where should new NPC and cosmetics be placed, so adding some bondages and armor technology would look cool to see her spinning attack like kyo kasunagi using a shoryuken circular ring, of fire.

• But regulated of course or a kick. fireflies and sparking can be added when she uses abilities wiout energy. Repeating or recasting fireball for instance can generate arc energy for the meter's procs / passive for reload and melee.
• said spear forms can be a great focus
• operator tattoes, wolves, and glwing ephemera
• new syndana with rework, chainmail, and meshysilk clothes which protect or enhance attacks.
• augments for weapons should relate to burning and solidifying or simular chemistries which allow ember to shatter and incinerate enemies she touches who have no shields, or finishers which are added to jumping attacks and abilities, beyond adding flaming or fire elemental to bullets during abilities i think its fair that if something burning its hit with water its malfunctions and watever animations are added.
• reload should be important 

Edited October 14, 2019 by SnakeBadger

[SnakeBadger]

Eventually i see ember throwing magnification pods and tools to launch other elemental mixing and defensive magics, while also combining the energy and pickups to utilize special attacks and change her types of bullets and shield regeneration that would cause enemies that get too close to get burned, blast, and temperature based status effects, maybe that she can get a new pet in the amalgam form or two instead, and few mods and rivens rewards, the processing storyline and mission or bossfight is without enough elements or treasures, i think it's important to equip the players with shields and other devices in repeat missions and planets, where the shields to deplete and fail, some players don't know about mods, or presets which could be allocated, status effects which could affect weapons, reload for example in extreme weathers sand could interrupt barrels clogs in places where there's tombs and skeletons, burrows, and freeze under frigid weathers normally, but with embers powers players would automatically reverse this process or use it to their benefit.

* and sight's accuracy in windy and pouris navigation affected by snow, climate, and gravity the bullets and chemical lasers are usually visible must be affected by moisture and gases otherwise you coulnt see their wavelengths, or  dispersing, then we think july explosions clutter downward, but no wind or magnetics carry the AOE and debris like the nebulas in space, left behind in the air, of decanting smoke and mixed powders resemble falling energy and grenades, like our combat mid-air, meat flaps ,to improve ember after this ENV using camuflage and the said magic tricks, so she can teleport and use temporary smoke-for cover, as well as distractions and tools, while other situations allow for other passive traits and acrobatics to ramikin extra bullets, and better melee attacks.

[KroneVanguard]

Totally dislike that childish, uninspired meteor attack. 👎

[keikogi]

5 minutes ago, KroneVanguard said:

Totally dislike that childish, uninspired meteor attack. 👎

It is realy bland and uninspired. 

[Atsia]

15 minutes ago, keikogi said:

It is realy bland and uninspired. 

Not anymore so than a passive damage aura.

[Marine027]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Atsia:

Not anymore so than a passive damage aura.

Something like Equinox still has? Or even something recently like Hildryn?

Ember was fine in my eyes, quick way for extermination and low level stuff, now other frames taken that place and why?

People whined about Ember beeign to strong, YES in damn low level, while in high levle she got one shotted and not was able to wipe whole maps unlike other frames do now.

DE are so much hypocrits in this at times, making a new frame like Hildryn which is tanky, does damge, removes debuffs and makes you immune ot debuffs due overshields and her first ability alone is OP.

Yet older frames who were good only in lower level, and yes some maked her valuable for high content, for the mayority she was a quick mission cleaner.

And now we get a damn meteor? Which is basically i imagine Limbos 4th? Aim and let it impact? At worse not working in small maps due ceiling if it comes down from above?

No thank you, i am fine with newer frames able to replace older ones, same goes for weapons, or some doing in certain missions better then others but this is desperate attempts on a frame that wasn't broken. It was a glas canon, high and medium damage but squishy.

Then we have Vauban which i am glad actually he gets changes but then, alot seems meh so far.

On both i wait when the changes are released and then i see how they play. The best we can really do since they shown it off now and will go trough with it and listen to feedback afterwards and make minor changes once again afterwards. We as PC after all the beta players still.

[keikogi]

15 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Not anymore so than a passive damage aura

It is worse ( unispired and bland , even worse than world on fire ) because of redundance. It is fireblast but better. Aoe fire damage skill , literally the same thing as fireblast. World on fire at least had the decent of being different from fire blast due to the fact it was an aura.

Edited October 15, 2019 by keikogi