Riven Changes Part 2

[5nak3Doctor 365]

1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

It’s been awhile since we revisited Riven dispositions along with the Fortuna update:

Some questions were left unanswered since the holiday break, so I’m back to fill you in on our current plans!

First things first: as stated previously, we will be revisiting Riven balance periodically. Riven Disposition changes will be implemented every 3 months, along with Prime Access. This allows for tweaks that are relatively “in sync” across platforms. These changes will follow the same protocols as before: 

-No changing dispositions by more than one “pip” at a time
-Only changes of a high enough magnitude are implemented (if numbers are “close enough” to desired power level, we will leave them be)
-Inbox message from Cephalon Samodeus warning players who own Rivens that changes have occurred
-Melee Rivens are still excluded for the time being; expect changes once Melee 3.0 is complete!

We are also making one slight change based on feedback from our last Workshop: past Disposition changes have been primarily based on weapon usage stats, where more popular weapons received lower Dispositions, and vice versa. These numbers were adjusted by hand where we deemed appropriate, but players have suggested we should take it one step further - going forward, we have compiled our own internal ranking of weapon power levels, which will be referenced in addition to usage stats to reach our final numbers. As further tweaks bring us closer to “ideal” Disposition numbers, changes should become less drastic, reinforced by our internal rankings providing a solid baseline.

Next up, Archgun Rivens! These will be made available for purchase through the Arbitrations offering store for Vitus Essence in a future update. These Rivens will not be available in the base pool of Sortie rewards, existing as an entirely separate and optional pursuit. The time has come to show those Orb Mothers the true potential of Tenno firepower (for those so inclined!)

Finally, a quick note on Companion Weapons Rivens, since these Rivens were taken out of their general circulation pools with the Fortuna update. We have plans to make these available through other means - expect further detailing of plans in a future Dev Workshop.

Thanks for reading Tenno!

Expand Riven Mod Max Capacity - Please

I want at least 1 Riven for every weapon. They allow for 20 extra load out slots - I have all 34 total loadouts - I have a unique weapon for each of the 3 weapons you can carry for each of the 34 unique Warframes im using,  90 is not enough to have a riven for each weapon with all my loadouts! More rivens means more things to do in Warframe for me - more time playing.

Right now I get an annoying pop up about my capacity all the time and im punished further being bared from sorties.

In an interview with tactical potato DE Scott said it is possible when asked about having one for each weapon however it brings more demand on the server.

Ya know - With all the inactive clans and Dojos and Accounts - Why not compress all that and put it in an archive server to make space and reduce load. When someone comes back make it a process of decompressing when an inactive account comes online and recheck to make sure it fully active.

This capacity needs to be raised or limited to one or 2 for every weapon.

Please

[DarkACB 39]

11 minutes ago, --Q--Dioxety said:

And while we’re on the topic of rivens, can we maybe make kuva grinding fun?

scaling survival finally? ;/

yes please

[Sharkgoblin 515]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 

[Valiant 11,125]

If we're getting archgun Rivens now could we get more Riven storage... ? 

Same for companion ones. It's more to fill up Riven space. 

[AutoCept 88]

It really annoys me that you can invest hours in kuva rerolls or spending plat on a riven and then have the stats adjusted. I realize that it might create an even more scammy riven trading scene, but it flies pretty in the face of the "don't devalue players time" mantra that every other decision in Warframe (Hi Hema) seems to operate on. I realize you've still got a really nice stat riven roll, it's just irritating that it becomes less nice than before.

[Drawer-san 76]

Like always people wanting more riven space just to hoard/sell and still use the same 6 weapons overall.

You guys dont have a max capacity proble, u have a hoard problem.

[Fazel412 132]

Just in case it hasn't been stated enough. Because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been stated enough.

Please consider giving us more riven slots.

There are over 360 weapons that can have a riven generated for them across primaries, secondaries, melees, and sentinel weapons, yet we only get about 1/4 that amount in slots. Adding in rivens for 9 archguns without adding slots would be... problematic. I'm pretty much expecting rivens for the 8 archmelees to happen as well, so yeah.

Pls gib.

[Casardis 10,272]

3 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

-No changing dispositions by more than one “pip” at a time

Does that mean it's possible that a gun with a disposition of 5/5 becomes 1/5 after about 16 months, if it's deemed "too powerful and used" due to having a more powerful Prime Variant out, making that weapon more popular?

Edited February 23, 2019 by Casardis

[DrivaMain 1,491]

Thanks for the heads up! But please do not kill my sweet rubico riben, as long as you don’t nerf it to the ground I am happy because rubico riven is a must for Eidolons.

[AzureTerra 2,975]

Thankyou for keeping the archguns out of the main pool

[Jangkrik 1,593]

On 2019-02-23 at 5:30 AM, moooooski said:

I really hope (RUBICO) (AKJAGARA) gets a nerf prices are crazy 1.4k for unrolled come on 😄  and also want to see some salt nice work DE

Just say that you just want to buy their rivens when the prices crash.

On 2019-02-23 at 5:04 AM, [DE]Connor said:

We are also making one slight change based on feedback from our last Workshop: past Disposition changes have been primarily based on weapon usage stats, where more popular weapons received lower Dispositions, and vice versa. These numbers were adjusted by hand where we deemed appropriate, but players have suggested we should take it one step further - going forward, we have compiled our own internal ranking of weapon power levels, which will be referenced in addition to usage stats to reach our final numbers. As further tweaks bring us closer to “ideal” Disposition numbers, changes should become less drastic, reinforced by our internal rankings providing a solid baseline.

2

Does that mean weapon popularities will no longer be used as the benchmark?

This is good news as the changes based on popularities are often not really appropriate or lagging behind.

For example:

1. Sicarus Prime was one of the best secondaries post-buff, but the disposition was not adjusted until last year.

2. Simulor series were the meta. However, after they were nerfed, many other primary weapons beat them in term of unrivened performance. Still, their disposition stayed at 1/5 until the last riven balance despite almost no one using them after the nerf.

3. Boltor Prime was the meta a long time ago and it was not meta or popular during the age of Miramulor (about the same time the riven was released). However, it still possessed crap disposition despite almost no one is using it.

4. Nikana Prime is only a slight upgrade compared to Dragon Nikana. However, it has drastically lower disposition than Dragon Nikana, making Dragon Nikana always better (instead of a sidegrade) than the prime if one has the riven.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Jangkrik

[JeyciKon 1,898]

nice, i always understood the original concept of rivens and never invested too much on a riven knowing they are meant to balance low-tier weapons to be usable in endgame on the same level as top tier weapons. but after a long time of DE not re-balancing rivens many players just forgot the purpose or were just not informed properly and ended up investing too much into getting those very expensive "godly" rivens not aware that it was not the way it was meant to be and would get re-balanced eventually, and now they complain and feel miss-rewarded,
but i think i do have a solution that makes almost everyone happy with the riven re-balancing:
every riven that gets nerfed, players that own such riven get a small portion of the kuva invested on it,
for example: if opticor riven gets a nerf and i have one opticor riven with some rolls i get a small but fair portion of the kuva spent on it, even if i bought it from someone else, this way i wont feel like wasted kuva/plat, the only players the wouldn't be happy would be those that bought a "godly" riven with nearly no rolls for an huge amount of plat, therefore getting nothing back. but other than that small group of people everyone else would be happy.

[Evanescent 11,385]

Please make archgun cooldown a stat for archgun rivens!

[0_The_F00l 2,870]

Good to know you have finally put a value to "regular" at 3 months,

You may also want to address the following while you are doing the things you said:

1) Increase the Riven capacity - To those saying its not necessary i respect your opinion but i do not agree with you , you play it the way you want , i will hoard play the way i want. After reaching MR 26 i have a good selection of weapons and am always looking to improve them further , putting a limit on the current end game-ish preferred loot in a looter shooter game seems counter intuitive. a scaling Plat cost may perhaps work out , as i understand hosting that much data may not be optimal.

2) Separate Disposition for weapon variants - As of now we have the vanilla , Vandal , Wraith , Prisma, Dex & Prime variant of weapons , and they all share the disposition of the base weapon. having separate locally applied multipliers to the variants would work better - i do not mean that there should be separate rivens for them.

Eg:

Riven stat for some weapon (will always show stats as per neutral disposition):

Multishot: 80%,

Fire rate: 40% ,

- damage to grineer: 20%.

 

Vanilla variant with disposition of 5 (multiplier of 1.5):

Multishot: 120%

Fire rate: 60%

- damage to grineer: 30%

 

wraith variant with disposition of 3 (multiplier of 1):

Multishot: 80%

Firerate: 40%,

-damage to grineer: 20%,

 

Prime variant with disposition of 2: (multiplier of 0.75)

Multishot: 60%

Firerate: 30%

-Damage to grineer: 15%

 

(values used for representation purpose only)

 

3) Reduce granularity of stats: this is a personal preference , why do we need a stat that is a decimal? 91.1% chance is definitely better than 90% but does it really add any purpose in the larger scope of things? if you are saying that there is not enough space in your database for more rivens because they are so varied , hows about reducing the variety a bit (like you did with mods when Endo was introduced and mods were either a particular rank or not). This should work well with my above suggestion of fixed multipliers per weapon and having base riven stats always be fixed at neutral.

4) Kuva Scaling in survival: there is no advantage in staying in kuva survival for extended times , it only gets harder to keep the siphon alive with no bonus for doing so. whether i leave at 20 minutes , 40 , minutes , 60 minutes or 5 minutes the average kuva per minute is the same (granted the extraction time affects the calculations slightly , but its minuscule) it doesnt need to be a very large jump , but some incremental rise in the amount of kuva received would make staying sense. Note: i am only suggesting this because we have been told solo extraction is going to be a possibility for those that want to leave early.

 

[kxZyle 1,455]

If you're gonna keep changing dispositions, it would be nice if the lower dispo cap would be raised to 1, or at least 0.8, from 0.5. It's not right for a riven to become barely worth slotting because of something outside of your control, like other people using a weapon you like.

[nooneyouknow13 29]

5 hours ago, Fazel412 said:

Just in case it hasn't been stated enough. Because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been stated enough.

Please consider giving us more riven slots.

There are over 360 weapons that can have a riven generated for them across primaries, secondaries, melees, and sentinel weapons, yet we only get about 1/4 that amount in slots. Adding in rivens for 9 archguns without adding slots would be... problematic. I'm pretty much expecting rivens for the 8 archmelees to happen as well, so yeah.

Pls gib.

By my count:

47 Rifles
14 Shotguns
5 Snipers
3 Crossbows
5 Bows

41 1 hand secondaries
19 Dual Secondaries
8 thrown secondaries

12 Swords
14 Dual Swords (Dark Split Sword is here, because it's awful as a heavy blade)
4 Sword and Shield
6 Machete
3 Nikana
2 Rapier
3 Blade Whip
2 Gunblade
1 Warfan
5 Daggers
3 Dual Daggers
3 Fist
3 Sparring
2 Claws
9 Polearms
4 Staves
5 Scythes
7 Heavy Blade
7 Hammers
6 Glaives
3 tonfa
4 whips
2 Nunchaku

4 kitguns
11 zaws

 

266 different riven generating weapons by my count. And a huge chunk of this list wouldn't even be worth using with rivens.

[(PS4)big_eviljak 2,637]

9 hours ago, AgrotheStrider said:

How about we get an increase to how many riven's we can have because i'm over the limit and not able to do sortie and i don't want to get rid of any of my riven's

If they raise the limit u will just hit the cap and want another raise.

[CombustibleLemones 20]

I'm all for more frequent changes to riven disposition. but when changing the actual values on a riven you can break builds. Slotting a riven on a weapon already require at least 1-2  forma in most cases. If a riven got changed and now doesn't serve its purpose (less than 100% status on shotguns, for example) the build is broken and the forma goes to waste, or need more forma to be able fix it.

I think we should at least get something when our rivens changes, forma or some kuva, so we could try and fix our builds. Otherwise its just not worth it to invest in a build that will possibly break in three months.

Edited February 23, 2019 by CombustibleLemones

[shauntay0248 2]

9 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

Yes i saw that... one gets buff, other gets nerf... brilliant idea... I already see rage on trading chat 😄

They can rage all they want, but nothing will change. They already know the risks involved and accepted them the moment they step into riven trading. They have no right to complain about this.

[James.Li 6]

Please remove Channeling on melee riven.NO ONE USE IT!

[lullul1635 26]

More riven slots capacity please.

+ Even if riven mods give diversity to many weapon builds, still so many "mastery fodder weapons" can't get much advantages from them.

People would use ignis wraith or arca plasmor rather than hind or convectrix even if they have low disposition.

It's all about broken balance, not about riven disposition.

Edited February 23, 2019 by lullul1635

[-Nez- 37]

So in 9-12 months Kraken will be the only weapon with 5/5 disposition and everything else will be below 3? Sweet.
Current riven system is pure RNG, players have nearly zero control (outside of "insert kuva here" slotmachine), kuva per roll becomes a joke, riven cap is still way too low, the only addition to this system in past years... em... riven transmutation? Heh.
And your solution is to nerf 120%sc+ kohm rivens and watch lot's of people throw tantrums on forum and reddit.
Guess I'll grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

[AgrotheStrider 26]

3 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

If they raise the limit u will just hit the cap and want another raise.

Guess it dosen't help i hoard them 😅

[--Noizer-- 14]

Does this also include the riven for pellet shotguns?
Months ago you said those weapons could not be touched, the impact would have been too negative.

Just asking.

[Futurehero 650]

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

First things first: as stated previously, we will be revisiting Riven balance periodically. Riven Disposition changes will be implemented every 3 months, along with Prime Access. This allows for tweaks that are relatively “in sync” across platforms. These changes will follow the same protocols as before: 

Thanks for reading Tenno!

Goddamn this is amazing.

For the longest time I thought DE intentionally primed high dispo weapons to get those sweet sweet sales up.

I've never been happier to be wrong.

 

Yes, please automate riven balancing as much as you can, the more often the better.

 

Rivens should never be the thing that make or break a build. 

Please consider lowering the numbers in general, and reduce the number of dispo 5 weapons as much as you can.

 

3 hours ago, CombustibleLemones said:

I'm all for more frequent changes to riven disposition. but when changing the actual values on a riven you can break builds. Slotting a riven on a weapon already require at least 1-2  forma in most cases. If a riven got changed and now doesn't serve its purpose (less than 100% status on shotguns, for example) the build is broken and the forma goes to waste, or need more forma to be able fix it.

I think we should at least get something when our rivens changes, forma or some kuva, so we could try and fix our builds. Otherwise its just not worth it to invest in a build that will possibly break in three months.

"You can break builds?"

Good. Welcome to a healthy shifting meta. Learn to build weapons.

"You can waste forma".  I didn't know polarities can't be re-used.

"Get something when our rivens change?"  You do. You get 3 months playtime with the build that you made.

Stop being entitled and learn to play 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Futurehero