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Nightwave: Series 1


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I might be a bit late (coz i have a busy real life) but i still jumped a bit over some comments and read some of this guy here:

5 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Love the way how players always find a reason to blame DE. If DE put 1k Plat as a reward somewhere I can bet that someone will appear who will cry it’s not enough.

 

5 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

And then cry about content drought.

 

You have whole week to do them. Tbh, I made half of them with friend in 1hr.

I duno about you but first, your first comment was pretty much egoistical. yes, there will be always "such kind of people" but if you go and read some of the later ones at least, like mine on page 7, a lot people made the math, shown numbers, told actual reasons and stuff with pretty much are nearly to good "facts".

The people you talk about are maybe the ones who didnt understood the old nor new system in the slightest which is more like "trolling".

And even if they would put a 1000 plat reward into the poll, which they will never do anyways, as i said in my comment back on page 7 (read it here: 

"What the current system lacks: 

  • Reliability: Missing a time limited mission with an Alert-only reward means waiting for it to rotate back into the live Alerts, at which time you may not be available (work, school, walking the dog, sleep, you know, the important stuff!). "

Most important is for me the last part in the (). Look, if you want "just" a umbra forma, you have to be pretty much online nonestop to get this stuff, which seems pretty much antiproductive if you try to bring reliability into this system. A person who HAS a good "RL" and is busy half down the way has also sure not the time to rank up this high in that kind of system, which pretty much nullefies this argument of adding reliability into it if you also think about, if the "event" is over, all ranks and currency are lost and cutted back to zero - which pretty much means even if you were close to get the stuff you wanted, all your effort you did is now worth nothing. "

 

Its also nice if you are able to finish stuff were people have time for to do it in a week and you did it in one hour with a friend - but im also sure that it also gives players who "enjoy the game" which might have a 8 hours+ job, a family, a girlfriend, son and daughter or other busy stuff in real life to do then sitting nearly nonstop on their pc. As i said already, i already played over 1200 hours, mk 24 and i might say "meh i dont need those stuff anyways" (mostly sure the umbra forma and the new mods of course) but lets look at all new players now, the ones who began to play warframe and maybe about mk 0-8.

As i said as joke some comments ago, im sorry for people who didnt got by now vauban prime sure sounds funny at the first place but thinking about it, this frame alone will be now torture to get (if it wasnt before heh), just thinking about the 25 Nitain LONE you need to get from the new system.

 

The problem? you dont get consistent the currency you might "need" for the items you "want". lets have a small look at the ranks for that:

(from the wiki)

"Rank 1 - ‍10,000: Wolf Sigil

Rank 2 - ‍20,000: Wolf Glyphs

Rank 3 - ‍30,000: Wolf Cred x50

Rank 4 - ‍40,000: Weapon Slot x2

Rank 5 - ‍50,000: Wolf Noggle

Rank 6 - ‍60,000: Wolf Cred x50

Rank 7 - ‍70,000: Forma Bundle (3x Forma)

Rank 8 - ‍80,000: Warframe Slot

Rank 9 - ‍90,000: Wolf Emblem

Rank 10 - ‍100,000: Wolf Salute Emote

Rank 11 - ‍110,000: Orokin Catalyst (built)

Rank 12 - ‍120,000: Wolf Cred x50

..."

 

Look at this HUGE gab alone already there. first 2 ranks, you get nothing "usefull". rank 3, the first 50 which is something. 2 weapon slots ok useful but maybe not what i need. a noggle, sure nice but maybe i would like to get nitain insteed. then i get my second creds with rank 6 and THEN i have to wait till im rang 12.

I could go on but it seems like the gap between "creds" and "rewards" are just way to big if you really need them. As i said in my last post, i quote myself again:

" Sure, they can be different "rewards" you can get for the different event times but they should all use the same "currency" and exp for those new alert system and not "event" wise rangs and different currency - pretty much like with Endo to mod every mod you want no matter what rarety the mod is."

So keeping this short, i dont think someone is "complaining" about the rewards we are getting, more like people who understand the system see that there is the problem with the currency which people who ARE new to warframe might need the most first about everything else for nitain, for the weapons and stuff like. I quote myself again:

"SO what WOULD i change?

- First, let us get "some" currency with every rank up, no matter what or which rank. If you want to add "that" reliability, not everyone of us has the time to rank up 3 ranks a week or like. Another idea WOULD be that we get some currency for each kind of mission we do, depending how "hard" it is we get more or less of it.

- Let us KEEP the currency and rank even after said "events" and dont change it, at least IF it helps us getting nearly impossible stuff like a umbra forma - so that it doesnt feel like our efforts are "worth" something and doesnt end up in limbo, literally."

 

If they, DE, would change that and WOULD keep -ALL- players, new and old players, people who HAS time and who might has "not so much" time, IN mind, it would sure work out but right now i can understand the backlash the system, as it is right now, is getting.

 

 

 

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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It really boggles the mind why DE would implement such a bad alert system without getting any real feedback from the gaming community first.

DE could easily have improved the already successful system by adding more alert missions with better rewards and keep them active for a longer time.

A big portion of what kept the players coming back in the last 6 years is that successful alert system that had a reasonable time investment.

The new bad alert system offers close to the same rewards with a much higher time investment plus it's gated behind grind walls.

Who thought that this was going to be a great idea?

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11 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Who thought that this was going to be a great idea?

No doubt the guys on the board who eat up over 60% of the games profits and don't contribute anything to the game other than demanding larger profits. So sad we started treating games as a business instead of the artform that it once was, back in the days when developers made games to be fun instead of to make monstrous profits, I'm all for the devs getting paid mind but its not the Devs that get the big payouts its the guys who own the company and need larger and larger profits to be viable. I hope I am wrong but this update really does feel like it was profit driven and not designed to be more fun for the player.

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I was expecting this kind of backlash to happen from the get go. I even picked it up during the stream it was announced as "Oh great, more grinding to get something people used to get instantly, that won't bother anyone I bet". At that time Rebecca saw my comment in chat, rolled her eyes and Steve pushed the issue at hand by saying their intention wasn't to pull players into spending anything or playing the game extensively but simply to overhaul a system that was old and needed a rework.
Today I see people complaining that this isn't fair, old players seeing all the issues with this, and new players locked from something they had access to. Should I roll my eyes in turn?

My feedback is this; I saw this coming, and so should you have.

Edited by Ryous
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3 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

No doubt the guys on the board who eat up over 60% of the games profits and don't contribute anything to the game other than demanding larger profits. So sad we started treating games as a business instead of the artform that it once was, back in the days when developers made games to be fun instead of to make monstrous profits, I'm all for the devs getting paid mind but its not the Devs that get the big payouts its the guys who own the company and need larger and larger profits to be viable. I hope I am wrong but this update really does feel like it was profit driven and not designed to be more fun for the player.

If it's profits that was the deciding factor then watch their revenue dwindle as more and more players find more fun things to do than play Warframe.

It will be close to impossible to rebuild their brand reputation once it's gone completely - and then there will be no players left to milk.

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27 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

"SO what WOULD i change?

- First, let us get "some" currency with every rank up, no matter what or which rank. If you want to add "that" reliability, not everyone of us has the time to rank up 3 ranks a week or like. Another idea WOULD be that we get some currency for each kind of mission we do, depending how "hard" it is we get more or less of it.

- Let us KEEP the currency and rank even after said "events" and dont change it, at least IF it helps us getting nearly impossible stuff like a umbra forma - so that it doesnt feel like our efforts are "worth" something and doesnt end up in limbo, literally."

Hear hear!

1) Please change Wolf credits to Nightwave credits, which persist through events.
2) Make Nightwave credits more abundant.
3) Don't reset Nightwave rank between events.

I'd also like a system without pre-chosen missions, e.g. by tying Nightwave standing to affinity, credits, resources, etc.
Let us choose our own way to play.

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7 minutes ago, Ryous said:

I was expecting this kind of backlash to happen from the get go. I even picked it up during the stream it was announced as "Oh great, more grinding to get something people used to get instantly, that won't bother anyone I bet". At that time Rebecca rolled her eyes and Steve pushed the issue to the saying their intention wasn't to pull players into spending anything or playing the game extensively but simply to overhaul a system that was old and needed a rework.
Today I see people complaining that this isn't fair, old players seeing all the issues with this, and new players locked from something they had access to. Should I roll my eyes in turn?

My feedback is this; I saw this coming, and so should you have.

i didnt saw the stream but if that is true what you pointed out, they should really expect that. To be srs, i dont think the old system needed "that huge of a change". yes it was a bid odd if you really think about the main point they tried to add which was "reliability" but then they could have just add a currency which you get from any alerts you were doing and a market for this currency, thats all (like i said with ENDO which is just for moding any mod).

THEN you would have created reliability.

THEN people would keep their progress.

THEN new players would have a chance to get stuff

But hey, why the easy way if you can #*!% up your own playerbase with another grinding system hidden behind a "new alert system"~

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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3 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

If it's profits that was the deciding factor then watch their revenue dwindle as more and more players find more fun things to do than play Warframe.

It will be close to impossible to rebuild their brand reputation once it's gone completely - and then there will be no players left to milk.

Well they lost my purchase this month was planning on getting another pack and buying me a loki and volt prime set as ive been hoarding my parts for Ducats lately instead of selling on warframe.market. But Im sure one sale won't hurt them. Lol this update just topped it all off after the nightmare Ive been having with grinding phase one of the profit-taker for gyromags and standing(have done the other stages but I just wanted those rewards) should of been an easy fix for them but that was ignore in the update as well.

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The weirdest thing to me is that they scrapped Alerts and implemented Nightshade because Alerts lacked "reliability", here's a quick fix I thought up that took 30 seconds: Have certain items drop on certain days and put the more valuable ones on a longer timer.

 

There, now we have reliability!

 

Monday through Wednesday drops mods and planet resources, Thursday has Nitain, tellurium and Argon Crystals, Friday Catalysts, Reactors and Forma BPs and on the weekend everything drops at random BUT Catalyst and Reactor are on a 24H timer when they show up.

 

You then tweeck the drops so we get about the same amount of stuff we did before, but in specific days rather then at complete random.

 

Instead you put a grind wall, behind a time wall for a timed event which progress resets at the end... A "Battle Pass" for Warframe, sheesh...

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2 minutes ago, Drivrius said:

The weirdest thing to me is that they scrapped Alerts and implemented Nightshade because Alerts lacked "reliability", here's a quick fix I thought up that took 30 seconds: Have certain items drop on certain days and put the more valuable ones on a longer timer.

 

There, now we have reliability!

 

Monday through Wednesday drops mods and planet resources, Thursday has Nitain, tellurium and Argon Crystals, Friday Catalysts, Reactors and Forma BPs and on the weekend everything drops at random BUT Catalyst and Reactor are on a 24H timer when they show up.

 

You then tweeck the drops so we get about the same amount of stuff we did before, but in specific days rather then at complete random.

....

this! so much this! no ffs here, DE, there you go! no change, just creating a schedule. thats all we needed.

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5 hours ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

No connecting theme in the rotating challenges, just RNG based luck on what chore list you'll be handed each week for this series.
Just disconnected voice lines while doing random stuff.

This Nightwave seems like such a missed opportunity. Years ago I made a suggestion for the Radio Scanner to give out alerts, invasions, etc, with spies relaying info on moving shipments, prisoners sending distress calls, Grineer generals giving out bounties to freelancers against Corpus aggressors, it would have done what Steve talked about, making alerts more connected with the world, more immersive.

Instead, we get acts devoid of meaning, nothing to make our immediate mission feel connected to anything.
Honestly I was a bit hopeful that we would have gotten a pirate radio station giving out missions, but these chores aren't missions connected in any way to the world of Warframe.
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/623887-landing-craft-scanner/
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/736418-more-mercenaryroguebounty-hunter-themes-suggestions/

(P.S. Would have preferred Clem survival mission style weekly cooldowns to "alerts" instead of all of these grindy chores.)

Edited by SnuggleBuckets
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2 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

This Nightwave seems like such a missed opportunity. Years ago I made a suggestion for the Radio Scanner to give out alerts, invasions, etc, with spies relaying info on moving shipments, prisoners sending distress calls, Grineer generals giving out bounties to freelancers against Corpus aggressors, it would have done what Steve talked about, making alerts more connected with the world, more immersive.

Instead, we get acts devoid of meaning, nothing to make our immediate mission feel connected to anything.
Honestly I was a bit hopeful that we would have gotten a pirate radio station giving out missions, but these chores aren't missions connected in any way to the world of Warframe.
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/623887-landing-craft-scanner/
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/736418-more-mercenaryroguebounty-hunter-themes-suggestions/

 

you should have copyrighted your idea mate, they stole it and made it worse ^^;

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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6 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Love the way how players always find a reason to blame DE. If DE put 1k Plat as a reward somewhere I can bet that someone will appear who will cry it’s not enough.

The problem is not that we are dissatisfied with the new items we were given, but with what was taken so we could get those new items.

 

We now have to grind for weeks to get back a "fraction" of what we used to be able to get in minutes.

 

Yes the new shiny stuff is great, but it costed us so much more and for new players? It pretty much costed them everything they could get from Alerts, because they won't be able to farm half the challenges.

 

They used to be able to ask for a taxi and get anything they needed in alerts if need be, now they are stuck with no realistic way to get what they had access to a day ago... That's bad mechanics right there.

 

The new system screws over new players to give older ones the feeling there is an "end-game" now.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)Lillekri said:

My only question:
If I don't reach rank 30, will I keep my 'wolf-rank' until next time the wolf nightwave comes around?
(Or will I lose it, and have to start from rank zero each time?)

Everything else looks really nice! Looking forward to earning new rewards!

At the end of the event everything resets, your rank goes down to "0" and your Wolf Creds disapear, all your time and effort are erased so you have to start from scratch evey new "Nightwave".

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Played some of the new alert thingy and I have to say: it's good, but needs balancing.

From my quik maths I got 50k standing weekly, meaning 5 ranks. So it means 6 weeks to get the last reward, considering you'll do all the challenges.

My question is, for how long do you plan on this series to roll? Half a year? Too damn long.

 

My 2 cents:

Firstly we need more challenges. More challenges means more standing and rewards sooner. Then, as you said, we Prestige the Nightwave and get more Creds, but with a Prestige level you should either get Creds every rank, or at least each tier should get multiplied. 

Another thing are the rewards. The tiered ones for ranking up are pretty nice. Good job on that. But the rewards for Creds are basically... well, crap. So I hope you'll get us something better next rotation. Remember when Baro brought us shi**ty stuff and only a few of them? Yeah, we don't want that to repeat.

 

To all people complaining: RELAX. They just implemented it and you all know DE is listening. Every change needs testing and they can't do all of that, so we are the testers. Yeah, the beginning is always shi**y, remember the change of Void Keys to Relics? Overall the newer system turned out to be much better, but more grindy at first. Here will be the same, it just needs some adjustments. Some tuning and balancing. And DE will do just that, but we have to give them some time.

 

Remember, this is Warframe. Every number is a subject to change. They will get it right, in time. 

Edited by PY-R0
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Just now, Drivrius said:

At the end of the event everything resets, your rank goes down to "0" and your Wolf Creds disapear, all your time and effort are erased so you have to start from scratch evey new "Nightwave".

...which is the big deal here.

 

A lot people already had good ideas and said how they, DE, could have fixed it:

 

- Add a currency you get from every alert (sure you get more if the alert is harder and less if its easier) and a special market for it - like ducats or Endo - and let us keep this currency.

- Create a drop schedule for the alerts and items.

 

this two ideas lone would have fixed the problem in a easier way and would have add the reliability DE is actually looking for.

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4 minutes ago, PY-R0 said:

Played some of the new alert thingy and I have to say: it's good, but needs balancing.

From my quik maths I got 50k standing weekly, meaning 5 ranks. So it means 6 weeks to get the last reward, considering you'll do all the challenges.

My question is, for how long do you plan on this series to roll? Half a year? Too damn long.

 

My 2 cents:

Firstly we need more challenges. More challenges means more standing and rewards sooner. Then, as you said, we Prestige the Nightwave and get more Creds, but with a Prestige level you should either get Creds every rank, or at least each tier should get multiplied. 

Another thing are the rewards. The tiered ones for ranking up are pretty nice. Good job on that. But the rewards for Creds are basically... well, crap. So I hope you'll get us something better next rotation. Remember when Baro brought us shi**ty stuff and only a few of them? Yeah, we don't want that to repeat.

 

To all people complaining: RELAX. They just implemented it and you all know DE is listening. Every change needs testing and they can't do all of that, so we are the testers. Yeah, the beginning is always shi**y, remember the change of Void Keys to Relics? Overall the newer system turned out to be much better, but more grindy at first. Here will be the same, it just needs some adjustments. Some tuning and balancing. And DE will do just that, but we have to give them some time.

 

Remember, this is Warframe. Every number is a subject to change. They will get it right, in time. 

The timer on the event is 10 weeks or so according to the last info we got.

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4 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

...which is the big deal here.

 

A lot people already had good ideas and said how they, DE, could have fixed it:

 

- Add a currency you get from every alert (sure you get more if the alert is harder and less if its easier) and a special market for it - like ducats or Endo - and let us keep this currency.

- Create a drop schedule for the alerts and items.

 

this two ideas lone would have fixed the problem in a easier way and would have add the reliability DE is actually looking for.

Or even easier just run both systems alongside each other as their was no real need to remove the old one. And dont mess with the frequency of items on the old one unless your increasing it either!

Edited by TheSkunkyMonk
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I must admit this is a system thas has a lot of appeal on me. I see a page full of task to do and i'm already happy, thinking about the most efficient way to complete them. I love the fact that i can choose where to complete them so that i don't have to endure a level 5 defense on earth for a nitain or an archwing intercept for an helmet. But this is where the issue starts with this new system.

The time comparison to get something between alerts and nightwave is insane. I wanted an helmet? With alerts: 5 minutes and I had my bp. Now? I see an helmet and i want it but I don't have any Wolf Cred. So I check how to earn them but I quickly realize that they are given for ranking up and I can't reach them with the amount of tasks I currently have on the Nightwave dashboard. So I must wait 4 days for the tasks to refresh... but at that time the Cred Offerings would have refreshed too, so i'm going to reach the 50x Wolf Cred but the helmet will be gone. Now I must wait another x days for it to refresh and hope for it to return. That's pretty insane.

Also we only have a total of 150 Wolf Cred on the entire rank up roadmap. That's an extremely low amount for a system that should replace the same amount of freedom we had with alerts. Why can't we earn some of them from the tasks and use it for smaller rewards? Like "complete a daily task and you're awarded 1000 standing and 1 Wolf Cred"; "Weekly task: 3000 standing 3xWolf Cred", then you have a single nitain that costs 3xCred and you have the batch of 5 at the current price. Also: half of them are gone if you use them to buy a catalyst.

The other thing that's really putting me down right now is the "rich stories" you promised us. Now we have a Grineer that managed to escape from a Max-Pen. I mean, that's all? It's a voiceover of 45 seconds over a diorama, it can't be all! I want to know more about him. Why did he ended up on a max-pen? How did he escaped? And where are those animated in-game comics you promised for this new system? I don't know if you unlock more part of the story when you rank up, I certainly hope so, but right now there's nothing that's making me thinking this will happen. (Eagerly awaiting to be proven wrong with this one!)

Reading some comments on this thread I also saw that you can already meet The Wolf in game, randomly. I'm mildly disappointed by this. I want to fight him but i want the fight to be a special one. Maybe something along the line of a Nora transmission declaring that "the wolf has been seen wandering near neptune" and then you get a time limited mission mark on your star chart where you can find him.

Edited by RennyManJr
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2 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

Or even easier just run both systems alongside each other as their was no real need to remove the old one.

Well, there is one I can think of... Money.

 

If they felt people were getting to much stuff for free thanks to the Alert system, then the new one makes perfect sense, I just hope I'm dead wrong on that and that it will be fixed.

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10 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

Or even easier just run both systems alongside each other as their was no real need to remove the old one.

tbh i dont think the old system would work great next to the new, nightwave one. if you think about as new player, it would confuse the hell out of me. But no, with the said ideas, it would sure have fixed it. they could have used nightwave to give out the alerts and show how much currency they would have get for each alert they are doing and boom, "new system". but right now its a mess. we have to grind for it and will lose all progress if we dont do it in time. 10 weeks (as the last info as i know) is now this "event" going. for some its "makeable" but again, if you want to get just the umbra forma as sample, you have to play warframe with ALL "alerts" about 6 weeks straight and again said - by doing A-L-L ALERTS. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE - which is for a person with a job 8 hours+ a day and family nearly to impossible.

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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3 minutes ago, Drivrius said:

Well, there is one I can think of... Money.

 

If they felt people were getting to much stuff for free thanks to the Alert system, then the new one makes perfect sense, I just hope I'm dead wrong on that and that it will be fixed.

Sadly, this is the logical conclusion at the moment, from my understanding of the changes.

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2 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

tbh i dont think the old system would work great next to the new, nightwave one. if you think about as new player, it would confuse the hell out of me. But no, with the said ideas, it would sure have fixed it. they could have used nightwave to give out the alerts and show how much currency they would have get for each alert they are doing and boom, "new system". but right now its a mess. we have to grind for it and will lose all progress if we dont do it in time. 10 weeks (as the last info as i know) is now this "event" going. for some its "makeable" but again, if you want to get just the umbra forma as sample, you have to play warframe with ALL "alerts" about 6 weeks straight which is for a person with a job 8 hours+ a day nearly to impossible.

As a recent new player the alerts where what gave me the most progression and where far from confusing this new system seriously limits that progression and pushes me into playing game modes I dont really have much interest in, like incursions and scanning for Samaris and doesn't give me any cosntant things todo either like alerts did, could always find something in them when I wasn't going for standing. I really can't see any issue with having both as nightwave is more about the tier rewards than the items taken away from alerts and put into the purchable credit awards. if anything adding another currency is more off putting than running both systems alongside each. Lol guess im just butthurt, really did think we were going to get some new quests and locations with this update as well, fancy telling us the tale of the super max and then not letting us go their!

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