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[DE]Rebecca

Nightwave: Series 1

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Looks like Nightwave series last for 10-11 weeks

Edited by Myscho

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My opinion has not changed since my last post in this thread, but I wanted to add a little anecdote. Today, I made a joke in the region chat about the Ghoul Purge showing up, sometime to the effect of "hey look, somewhere people can get their precious nitains!" Someone immediately messaged me, a mastery level 6, relatively new player who obviously had spent a bit of money on the game. He was wondering if I could help him do those bounties since he needed the nitain for a Nekros Prime; he had bought the blueprints without realizing how expensive they would be to craft. Anyway, I decided to help him out and started a squad to farm the bounties since I still needed to complete a few for my personal challenge anyway. After about three bounties, we hadn't nabbed ourselves a single one and I could definitely feel the disappointment settling in. I did talk to him extensively about the whole Nightwave system, saying he only needed to get to the third tier of rewards in order to get enough wolf creds for at least 15 nitain extracts, probably far more than he'd actually need to craft a single prime (excluding Vauban of course). Thing is, *I* only got to tier 3 *today* with, uh... 3 challenges left? It didn't seem like he had gotten even a single one done and of course some were just entirely implausable, i.e. the Hydrolyst and the sortie mission. I even gave him advice, like trying Sanctuary Onslaught so he could get regular and Eximus kills while also completing the three necessary waves (potentially 9,000 rep in one go), as well as looking for invasion missions that doubled as capture missions to get progress in two of the other challenges simultaneously. But of course, without any of those big elite weekly ones, he'd have to wait until the next set of weekly rewards for those components even then. Now, I can hear the criticism already, like "oh come on, he'd have to wait for the random alerts anyway! What's the difference?" The difference is that even getting a single nitain from an alert was instantly gratifying. There was zero work involved there, it's straightfoward. And let's be real, people are short-sighted, especially when it comes to videogames, a form of escapism. Knowing you have a reliable way to get a couple nitains per day makes the task of acquiring them feel less daunting. It's certainly easier to comprehend! Before this update, a new player would ask region chat where to get nitains and it was a simple matter of saying "wait for the alerts." Hell, a bot would probably tell him what to do! Now, a knowledgeable player who wants to help out is forced to go on a long diatribe about this new-fangled Nightwave system, how to do challenges, what the challenges mean, when you'll get your first set of wolf creds, where and how to use the wolf creds. It's going to get tiring, guys.

Anyway, bittersweet ending: I helped him do the Lephantis fight enough to get a regular Nekros, even gave him a free Despoil card to encourage him a bit. He only had a single part left and had all the materials he needed to craft him. I'm actually assuming he bought the Nekros Prime in a bout of frustration dealing with those annoying drops. Hell, even I gave up on Saryn after doing the Sedna boss like 20 times. The sad part? He was in trade chat trying to sell the Nekros Prime immediately after! I'm sure some people will laugh at this dude, but it honestly made me sad. The guy was excited to try a cool new warframe and felt too overwhelmed to even get there! I don't take that as a sign this update is helping new players, DE.

Edited by (XB1)Earth Nuggets
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I wrote some of my issues that I was having earlier and thought more about why I think this update missed the mark. I like the idea of being in the Warframe Universe and popping in and out Alerts and reaping small but progressing rewards. So losing Alerts and learning the only way to progress is with a to-do list of daily/weekly tasks isn't fun to look forward too. Like Scanning 25 things for Simaris.

I would like to get to Rep level 29 for some Umbra Forma, but with the daily/weekly reputation quests being so limited, those of us who might not be able to play as often even on the weekends might not be able to make those goals. I like the idea of spending WolfCredits to get Nitain and other RNG rolled Alert drops. But the WolfCredits feel so limited.

I was wondering if we could harmonize the two gameplays.

Alerts perviously had a range of credit rewards depending on where the alert was on the starchart, and sometimes had cosmetic or blueprint items.
Why not transition that to earning reputation and more uncommonly, small drops of WolfCredits.
This way, alerts become worth while to do for everyone, especially those with WolfCredit drops.
Some items in the WolfCredit shop might need rebalancing. Like, the 5 Nitain bundle, like tbh. Why can't we buy 1 at a time, and limit it say 7 per week cycle? Need Potatoes? How about limit 1 per week, and make the cost a tad higher than other rare resources.

These are my thoughts, on how a grind can still be a grind, but give a bit of purpose and feel rewarding. Actually feel like I'm getting closer to some of these goals without being limit by being a noob. Can't run Pluto missions, well that gives me a goal to get to Pluto, but no worries at the same time, as I can also slowly get rewards on Jupiter on my way to Pluto. A bit slower, but progress is there.

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I... have no idea what to do with this Nightwave thing? All I get is there are these acts things that I do and level up and I get goodies, that's ok. But... where do I go? Alerts were the way for me to decide where to go, what to do, so simple, just click and go (already unlocked every node and stuff). So, uhh. Should I just go around in random nodes? I haven't done that like forever, because everything before Pluto is just too easy. I wish you hadn't taken out alerts completely, but I guess it needs to be gone for the new system. I just don't get what to do now.

Also, people talking about this Wolf? What?

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19 minutes ago, crazyjr said:

It's Ok, at least you got us the opportunity, for more nitain. The way Steve was hyping it though, during that dev stream with the whiteboard, I figured it'd be a mini quest with the new alert system implemented. I was really looking forward to a story with a new enemy (possibly Stalker, Zanuka or Gustrag 3 likel). In that vain, it's kind of meh. Unless Nora Night is something more, like Margulas still alive through transference. This'll be a lot of fluff with some quality of life issue fixes.

Like i said, appreciate not having to keep a tab open, for nitain alerts.At least that is a plus.

For the record, i don't like the Umbral Forma, it does not fit in the game at all it feels like it's just grease for a few squeaky wheels.

#1. There is no Umbral school, so where exactly does it fit.

#2, Without it (umbral forma), there was a price to be paid, for running umbral mods. Now that that balance is gone, why run primed Mods? BTW i will be running them, i'm not stupid. Just saying it ruins the existing balance.

I will say at least they can't be bought directly, so thank you for not making it pay to play

The Umbra forma is the carrot...

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Im not sure i like this update, but i guess if it rewards everything we get random, plus riven mods , this may be better , had this game since console release.

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Um... Yeah, while I like the new alert system I think that there should be more Daily Challenges, as I did the Daily (deploying a Sigil???  Really???), and Weekly challenges in one go, the Fugitives are a nice twist (100 extra standing isn't that much in the grand scheme of things) but like other players... I like to do things as efficiently as possible, then move on... Maybe splitting the Challenges up evenly would would be a better Idea so that everyone always has something to do to gain ranking, and not have it be a Painfully slow grind like say.... Hema Research?

Anyhow other than the points I brought up, Good stuff, and did y'all take your inspiration from Fallout 3's Three Dog? She's a hoot ^.^

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Nightwave is really cool and I love the idea to gain standing for rewards, but there is one problem....bugs.

There have many bugs since the update and sadly, I'm a victim to one of them. The one I have makes the game unplayable. When the update dropped nothing happened. It was all chill, but when I logged the next day (or today) there was a bug. Throughout my time with Warframe I have had a few minor bugs, but this one was pretty major so I had no idea what to do. Anyways, everything went smoothly until I got in the game. Naturally, when I get into Warframe and head straight for my arsenal or foundry, but when I tried to my screen froze a little above the codex. After that, the screen is frozen forever. However, I can move, access things and do whatever basically. This is the same for missions, right when I join a mission my screen freezes but I can still hear sounds so I know the game is still working. Its like I'm playing the game but my screen is frozen. After logging back in and out for three times, I clicked the verify button on the launcher and optimized it too. When I tried it again, it was the same issue. I know a few other people have this glitch because I looked in the bug forums. I know DE will fix the problem soon so no worries. But it annoying that I can't play (especially after I just got the zenistar) but its completely fine and I know to bug will be fixed soon. Also, the nightwave system is really cool btw. Thanks In Advance!

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17 minutes ago, MacKerris said:

The Umbra forma is the carrot...

I understand that, just saying this new item risks the balance of the game. In some cases primed mods make them OP'ed as heck, umbral mods (3 needed for a proper Warframe) will make it Nigh unbeatable

 

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4 minutes ago, crazyjr said:

I understand that, just saying this new item risks the balance of the game. In some cases primed mods make them OP'ed as heck, umbral mods (3 needed for a proper Warframe) will make it Nigh unbeatable

 

And that's Power Creep for you

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Just now, Jynx41174 said:

And that's Power Creep for you

Very familiar with power creep, Seen many games die when creep went way too far

 

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The idea of Nightwave is good, but it needs a fair amount of tweaking.

To add to all the other issues already mentioned, I see another problem: auras are now locked behind weeks of act grinding for new players. Veterans will say: the only good one is Corrosive Projection anyway!... WRONG. When you're a new player, ALL auras are good. Why? Random auras with the polarity of your unformad frame aura slot will give new players extra drain points they desperately need at the start. The aura effect might be useless, the points aren't.

Thanks to Wolf credits being a very low fixed amount at fixed tiers, new players won't be able to get many random auras for free anymore, and the very beginning of the game just got a little harder.

If you add that they also won't be getting free weapon blueprints from alerts anymore, or free alt helmets or even that lone orokin cell or neurodes that seems so hard to get when you're low MR.... starting a new account now doesn't sound fun.

I am very glad I started playing Warframe years before Nightwave. If I started now, I'm not so sure I would keep playing. You can buy ONE wolf cred reward after a week of doing all the daily and weekly acts...and that's assuming a new player can do them. Doing a tridolon at MR3 when you don't even have an operator? Or even a sortie? Getting 5 ayatans in one week? How are new players supposed to do any of that? Wolf credits tiers are only 6 out of 30, so it's not even one reward every week...

 

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2 minutes ago, HalidarSilvercloud said:

The idea of Nightwave is good, but it needs a fair amount of tweaking.

To add to all the other issues already mentioned, I see another problem: auras are now locked behind weeks of act grinding for new players. Veterans will say: the only good one is Corrosive Projection anyway!... WRONG. When you're a new player, ALL auras are good. Why? Random auras with the polarity of your unformad frame aura slot will give new players extra drain points they desperately need at the start. The aura effect might be useless, the points aren't.

Thanks to Wolf credits being a very low fixed amount at fixed tiers, new players won't be able to get many random auras for free anymore, and the very beginning of the game just got a little harder.

If you add that they also won't be getting free weapon blueprints from alerts anymore, or free alt helmets or even that lone orokin cell or neurodes that seems so hard to get when you're low MR.... starting a new account now doesn't sound fun.

I am very glad I started playing Warframe years before Nightwave. If I started now, I'm not so sure I would keep playing. You can buy ONE wolf cred reward after a week of doing all the daily and weekly acts...and that's assuming a new player can do them. Doing a tridolon at MR3 when you don't even have an operator? Or even a sortie? Getting 5 ayatans in one week? How are new players supposed to do any of that? Wolf credits tiers are only 6 out of 30, so it's not even one reward every week...

 

MR 19 here and lucky if i can get three ayatans a week, including the Maroo weekly one

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I was really looking forward to Nightwave when it was announced. And overall I am impressed. But the implementation missed the mark and needs some adjustments. 

To start off: The tier system is an excellent idea. And I have very little to comment on this except for the part below. : 

1). My major issue is with how we earn coins.

Right now these coins are tier rewards we can earn just once a week. This feels like pocket allowance that we have to ration and economize creating overall a very forced and less flexible system. Especially for new players the store now forces them to plan their already slow progression. Coins gone? Well, then you just have to wait another week. Adding to the other 11 factions littering the game with massive grinds. It feels I have absolutely zero agency in my progression. And when my bounties are done...there is pretty much nothing exciting or surpising happening for the next week nor do I have the opportunity to get that one missing Nitain or mod etc. Ultimately this coin system is unrewarding. 

The way to solve this is, imo, to take the coins out of the tier rewards (exchange them with the catalysts and reactors or endo or something) and redistribute them proportionally over the bounties, including the daily bounties. On top of that the fugitives should drop a coin or at least have a % chance (25 to 50% ?) to reward one or two coins. Allow the currency to be earned through actual play. Much less boring. Much more dynamic and engaging. 

This way you limit the speed at which coins can be earned without taking away player flexibility; allowing for some form of agency in progression and a feeling of earning coins rather than getting your weekly "allowance". 

2). My second issue is with the bounties themselves. 

There are far too few daily bounties and far too many weekly bounties. (And these weekly bounties feel like dailies. Seriously...yesterday I completed half of them doing my normal rountine without even noticing if it weren't for the pop-ups). Finished the rest today. 

It would be preferable to have more dailies. And even 48 or 36 hour bounties. And much less weeklies which, upon completion are leaving "much empty" which is creating a feeling of  "there is nothing to do". 

It woud also be preferable if the weeklies were actually something that wouldn't be done in half an hour. But this is just me and I realize a balance needs to be struck keeping more casual and time constrained players in mind.  

***

I want to end this on a positive note saying I love the VA voicing Nightwave. And I love the concept of the story back ground. I hope future seasonals will have some story missions or findable lore as the weeks progress. But this is an excellent start. 

 

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30 minutes ago, crazyjr said:

MR 19 here and lucky if i can get three ayatans a week, including the Maroo weekly one

I can certainly understand your frustration. 

My primary source for statues is the Arbitrations. However...that depends on whether you have unlocked the star chart...which is a big ask from players (let alone beginners) but it might be very worth while to work towards that. Arbitrations reward Endo or Ayatans as common rewards per 10 minutes.  

My other source is the daily faction missions. Go in solo or with a premade group (pugs tend to be hit or miss with people looking for the marks) and look for all the faction marks. I generally find several Ayatans a week (I think between 4 and 9 although less also happens) depending on my luck and whether RNGesus had his or her morning coffee. 

I hope that helps? 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Drivrius said:

Around 10 weeks is the latest info we have.

300k standing in 10 weeks as a newb. Whelp, thanks. I mean, don't get me wrong, did some invasions if the reward was something I looked for, did some Cetus bounties once in a while, but nothing with any pressure on getting stuff done "effectively", but rather on the fly, while unlocking the solar system one node at a time, raising a Kubrow, go after the story...
Some stuff is just done either way, so I will get standing for that. The problem is the creds and now the "list of work" that I can't fulfill. Or simply don't want to. I got time schedules that I neatly need to plan out enough rl. Not blaming anyone, that is my personal issue and my choices. Might also be that this new system is helping many and is too easy to complete for others. I can only speak for myself.
Assuming that the amount of challenges roughly stays the same, me lazy bum (or me tired blip or afk-lowlifer) will be able to get 1k a day (or apparently sometimes 2k) and 12-14k in addition weekly. Roundabout.
That'd mean in 10 weeks I should have 70k standing from dailies and 120-140k from weekly challenges. In the end, 190k to 210k and 250 Wolf Creds. Calculating with me skipping a few things.
Well, enough for a potato or at least some cosmetics I like. IF I don't go on a trip, have an accident or something else that keeps me from playing. Sure, I would have missed alerts in that time periods, too. Thing is, they'd rotate back in at some point and since there was no such thing as standing and ranks n rewards I could have missed out on, offline time sometimes felt punishing, but only for a few minutes or so.
Just thinking out loud.

P.S. Have yet to get to The War Within and only recently unlocked Neptune. On a side note

Edited by Silescere
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Posted (edited)

fling over the last comments reminds me what i said already some pages back.

they should have easyly created a own currency you get from any alerts you are doing and not by "rank ups", so you can spend it for the stuff you need and want in a market for it which COULD be the "nightwave radio" - a bit like ducats right now  that we KEEP this currenty forever and our effort will not reset somewhat, that we can save this currency to buy stuff we want and sure, some stuff needs more from the said currency, some less.

 

No im still with this, they can do this reward system but then they should change it in a way were our effort we do will not reset after this 10 weeks ffs.

 

Just think about it syndicates would work like that, every 10 weeks, boom, all your rank and effort, just gone.

 

Sounds good? No. It doesnt, DE, it sure doesnt.

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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I have mixed feelings about this system.

  • Fancy long-term rewards: cool!  Something new for all players to work towards.
     
  • The normal alert rewards now take so much more effort to get.  I've put in hours of work this week so far, exclusively focusing on many of the "challenge" tasks even though they aren't things I would normally do.  I think when I finish everything, including beating a Hydrolyst and begging my spouse (my only game friend) to suffer through a Sortie with me (I love them, she don't), I'll have finally earned enough Wolf Creds to get one Dark Dagger blueprint.  Compared to alerts, the loot-per-effort ratio has plummeted, and it seems like new players will feel this the most, because they have the least ability to defeat the Nightwave Challenges.  Sure, you can choose what you get, but now you'll be getting one thing instead of 30; that only benefits old-timers (and even then, considering how much more sustained work you need to do, it might be preferable to just do fun things you like until the day when the item you actually want finally pops up, rather than doing 30 times the grinding just to get it "faster").
     
  • Based on the amount of points you can earn via challenges right now, it looks like you can get about 4 ranks per week.  With 30 ranks, that's 7.5 weeks to get all the rewards if you do everything.  I would estimate that your average player might need roughly twice that much time if they have work, school, family, or just don't want to burn themselves out.

    But the question is, how many weeks do we have?  Based on the PS4 event, it looks like we only have 4 weeks...which is half as many as we'd need if we did every single challenge.  Now, that being the case, I'm sure DE has some plans to roll out some other ways to get these points as the month progresses.  But here's the thing: right now, players don't have enough information to know how much leeway they have, which means they don't have enough information to plan and pace themselves.  Everyone is going to feel like they need to get every last challenge point, whether it's healthy for us (and our enjoyment of the game) or not.

    Because if you don't, you will miss your chance to get rewards that you can't get any other way.  In the past there have been other limited time events, but (in my experience) they haven't required such a sustained grind.  I'm guessing players can make an effort to play Warframe more than normal for a week, maybe even 2, so they can get cool event stuff, and that probably won't burn them out.  Or maybe it does burn them out a little, but then they can take a short break.  But can they push themselves to play more than they want and to do content they don't want to for 1 month without burning out?  I don't think so.

    Maybe you designed the system so there's plenty of leeway, but if nobody can see that leeway, it doesn't stop players from burning themselves out.  I'm hoping you'll come out and say something like, "Hey Tenno, if you do half of the challenges every week, you'll have no problem getting to rank 30."  Then people can pace themselves.  Then these "macro goals" can actually overlap other goals players have, instead of just becoming their own individual goals like any other.  

    So please, give us more details.  I know I'm not the most compulsive "gotta catch them all" player, and I'm already feeling stressed about this event.  I'm genuinely a bit worried about those who have it worse off.

Anyway, overall I think the fundamental system itself is solid, but I think the numbers need to be tweaked, and there needs to be more transparency.  Thanks for hearing my feedback!

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I get why the ranks have to reset at the end of the never ending events, I say never ending because they replace Alerts and there were always Alerts on.

 

This is because the unique rewards for the "season" are linked to ranking up, but why is the currency a perishable?

 

I mean, we can't really buy unique items tied to the season other then weapon skin I think? So why can't it carry over to the next one if we didn't use it all?

What possible harm could having a stash of "Nightwave credits" do? What exactly is the problem if I choose to keep them an only buy something when I need it rather then have to spend it all before the event is over on stuff I might need?

 

If by the end I still have 10 Wolf Credits I can't buy anything with, why can't they carry over to the next event?

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

But the question is, how many weeks do we have? 

On twitch Space Mom said 10 weeks and that with 65% of challenges done it should be enough to get the end rewards.

 

So you get about 3 and half weeks worth of rep you can skip and still get the end rewards.

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I want the old Alerts back.

The Nightwave is ok , but it should be an addition to the alerts not a replacement.

Doing a single mission to get a single item I desire, like 'Nitain extract' was one of the best parts. You are ruining the Warframe by adding more grind. If player wants more grind have a option for the user to toggle to turn alerts on or off. Can't wait to see how many people choose the 'more grind ' option, that won't be me however. 

What are you doing DE. You are supposed to be breaking the mould , not be assimilated by it. 

Less grind , More rewards.

Regards

 

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Posted (edited)
Spoiler

As I mentioned in my previous posts, I'm a newish player. I joined 30-something days ago and took a little bit of a relaxed approach to the game, since I thought I'd have all the time in the world to farm for resources and blueprints and parts. Well, look at me now.

Yes, I'm pretty upset with this new system. I can't see myself getting to the top tier, I have to choose between an aura and some more nitain to build that frame I wanted.
You could say, it all will be easy enough when I reach higher MR, get better gear, whatever. But... Where I was okay with a bit of a grind, now it became a chore. Where I was looking forward to play, now I'm not so sure whether I'll still be playing in a month or two from now.

Having spent half of yesterday doing chores (instead of things I really wanted to do), I can articulate my problems with the new system a bit better.
Please, keep in mind, that this is a personal opinion based on a personal experience.

Accesibility.
Expand the weekly challenges list. Make some of them more approachable for newbies and people who have a RL stuff.
You could say, this would be too easy for the veterans. Well, atm they burst through it all in a couple of hours and have nothing to do anyway.

Reliability.
The Wolf cred rewards rotate weekly. This is nowhere better than a system we've had already. They are here for a week, sure, but since we have a finite amount of cred and we don't know the full list... Do I spend the cred now? Do I have to save up for the next week? (And I absolutely have to spend it all someday, because it will all be gone.)
Tl;dr There's too little Wolf cred to earn and too many things a new player needs.

Gratification.
It's no secret why videogames are so popular, right? It tickles our endorphin receptors. We do something, we get something instantly, bam, we feel great. Simple as that.
It took 5-15 minutes to finish an alert mission before. Bam. You could hop into it between your own things or leave it for later. Now you have to do it. So someday, in weeks, you'll have what you wanted. Don't people have jobs for that already?
It's great to have something to work towards (I'm speaking about those 30 tiers of rewards), but taking everything we could get in 5 minutes out and putting it behind a grind or a time-wall is disappointing.
Again, as I mentioned earlier:

9 hours ago, Athizea said:

The thing I find most disheartening about the new system is that they've locked some essentials behind a time-gate and a grind-gate. Remember, this is a game where your whole experience is tied to your weapons/frames progression. So gating nine weapon blueprints and a frame AND resources like this is... Inconsistent.

It would've been perfect if they've left the old system and implemented the new one, so the veterans have something to do and the newbies could have their resources and BPs. Say, we could farm Nightwave standing / Wolf creds for cosmetics and ornaments and have our occasional Void Fissure or a Nitain mission.

 

Man, I just hope that DE will listen to their playerbase.

Edited by Athizea
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The ways to gain WOLF CREDS are diffcult ,this is opposite to the origin warning system.

maybe we can add some medal to the ordinary mission so we can gain wolf creds easier.

decease the weekly challenge reward of credit, add the Escaped convicts appear probability.

The Wolf Of Saturn Six may regularly appear on the star chart ,like the Shadow Debt, and bring the wolf creds and the credit

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It really has affected my gameplay mind, Im was on the mastery grind for end game so I knew I needed plenty Nitain for starts and plat for potatoes so after all the questing was done my main game was bounties for lens and standing and void missions for parts while ranking up my weapons and frames in the process to get to a decent level. The alerts broke that up massively and stopped it feeling like a chore always happy when a nitain or a gift from the lotus popped up helping me enjoy the others tasks I was in the long process of completing. I never had loads but I had never ran out thanks to some careful planning.

I've gave it a chance and it really is a serious downgrade, I like the challenges don't get me wrong I was looking forward to that statue and Bobble head as I hope to one day see trade on my vessel but this shouldn't be a replacement massively increasing my input it and limiting progression more it should be an addition all on its own,

I dont have a problem with any of it other than resetting your progress which should only happen when you get to the final tier and then move onto the next in the story, maybe handing out a quest or two along the line, give us all the chance to put in the same work and earn the same rewards at our own pace, equality and all that nonsense but even without that change if we had the Alerts I would be enjoying it now.

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