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Nightwave: Series 1

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1 minute ago, wathor88 said:

so instead of getting at least 2 nitain a day...now i get like one or two in a week or even less? great update ;(((

They're sold by packs of 5 for 15 Wolf Creds, if you can farm all the weekly rep you should be able to get 50 Wolf creds per week, so 10 Nitain per week, of course you're not getting much else thou if you do that...

 

 

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I think DE had all the good intentions when making this feature. I'm quite sure they did not do it for monetization or whatever funny accusations people have thrown. It is a cool thing that they try new stuff to make the game better. 

However, I feel that the basic flaw for this system is the same as in all battle pass systems: If it requires you to commit to it to get stuff (i.e. most of the acts need you to do specific missions/actions that you would not be doing otherwise), then you want to commit to it fully and commit to it right now, to get the best rewards, which are always at the end.

Thus, instead of being fun addition that you do whenever you feel like it or if you need something from it (like alerts), it is a full-on grind for everyone that starts it.

Of course, there are players that are happy to have new challenges with great rewards. However, EVERYONE wants those rewards as they are so good and thus, everyone grinds, even if they would not want to do it.

How about making this 15 tier season and at each tier, you would just get 30 wolf credits that you can spend on the items that were previously in alerts, with no other rewards. People who need items from alerts could do it as fast or slow as they want and people who already have everything wouldn't need to bother. But now they put several items that are either VERY sought after (umbral forma) or will be available ONLY from here for 10 weeks (all the fashion stuff) and that means everyone who wants these must then grind and must grind right now, or they miss the opportunity. 

If I want to grind for focus, or some syndicate reputation, I have been able to do it on my own terms, whenever I feel like it. Some special missions that have lasted from a weekend to a week have sometimes appeared, but usually everything can be done whenever I feel like it. 

This new system FORCES me to do the content right now, or I miss the rewards (which are something that hasn't been seen in the game yet and as such, are almost invaluable). After thinking about it, this is the thing that is so difficult for me. If I could some day decide that lets do 3-4 ranks on this track (even a year from now), I would have no problems. But if I need to log every week and perform all the chores within ~4-5 days, it starts feel like working (more than before) :). 

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It's funny how every other post in this thread seems to be from a MR26 who claims this new system is worse for newer players. As someone who is nowhere near MR26 yet, new enough for my MR1 antics to still be fresh in my memory, and who still needs many of the items in these loot lists, I ask you all, pretty please with sugar on top: stop trying to represent me!

The only reason the alert is system was nice for new players is because when you're entirely new, every aura or alert mod you score is a new toy to play with. This hasn't changed, the same is true for the new system. But once you have gathered say 30% of the auras, 3 out of every 10 aura alerts is wasted on you and you end up chasing some lame website so you can finally find yourself a corrosive projection or energy syphon that you desperately need to pull your weight. The new system allows me to get those auras and cosmetic items I still need with much more efficiency and lets me choose (with some limitations due to rotation) which aura or helmet I want to have first.

There is just absolutely no way in which an entirely random system is on average going to give you a complete collection faster than a system that lets you choose from rotations. That is simple mathematical fact. The new system is a much better way to get the items you really need first, and to get your complete collection (if you're the kind of player who goes for that) much faster. On top of that, in the old system if an aura came up that you needed badly, you had to run a freaking vampire nightmare mode interception or something similarly excruciating for a player with not much gear to get the reward. In the new system at least you have plenty of choice on how you're going to get the standing to earn that wolf cred.

As is obvious for any overhaul like this, and as DE has indicated themselves in posts and streams, some balancing and review of rewards vs investment will still be needed. I'm sure DE is running the necessary daily statistics to see if the average player is getting their satisfaction and the hardcore player is getting their completionism fix, but those have nothing to do with the system they have put in play here, which is just leagues better than a bunch of random timed missions with a one time reward that you may or may not see back again within any given period of time.

 

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, they've been reading this post. Probably just shaking their heads. If we were thousands they might give pause. Listening to them today it's not going to change anytime soon.

Lots of players are singing their praise. They're veterans wanting something new. So, of course. Newbies, it's harder. 

On another note the game graphics are changing. I mean WOW. It looks really cool. They've worked hard and it shows. But this change is a step in the wrong direction.

I have sung their praise as well, in the past. I've supported the game. I was very happy to do it. But, I don't like being forced to in order to advance. 

Like I've said in my other posts. I'm a SOLO player, for MANY reasons, and they've made it to where you will HAVE to play as a team. 

I love the game but pretty soon I'm going to hit that brick wall.

Sad, just sad. 

There are lots of new players that will love the game and not care about what it was. They're awesome Players. My Main complaint is the change that will "make" me play in a team. No thanks. Its just not my thing. I have enjoyed solo play for a while now. AND, if I can't get an item by playing I will HAVE to pay for it. And that's "Pay to Play." Literally!

Edited by (PS4)mcfar53
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, (PS4)mcfar53 said:

Lots of players are singing their praise. They're veterans wanting something new. So, of course. Newbies, it's harder. 

Yeah one of my favorite Warframe Youtubers said: "Those who say it's too grindy should shut up or leave, preferably both"

 

Apparently having a different opinion that him means I should quit the game...

 

I just hope DE does something to help new players, I don't really care that they want me to spend all my free time on Warframe, but don't alienate new players with this system please!

Edited by Drivrius
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Lol, that's funny. "Oh ye high and mighty Warframe YouTubers" Hear our plea your majesty.   lol, good grief man! We're not telling them what to do. They don't have that right either. 

Unless you are government you don't have the right to tell ANYONE what to do. Free speech doesn't mean free to govern. EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion but don't feel so entitled that others have to listen to you or do what you say.

Oh my goodness. So we voice our concerns and suddenly they want to get rid of us. Lol sounds like they're the ones with the problems.

Someone who really cares would help, not hinder and certainly not dump his trash on you.

Kindness goes a long way.

Oh my goodness. Thanks for the laugh.

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Posted (edited)

And where are we going to have alert mods now? Chilled, Seeking fury, intensify, contiunity, split chamber, focus energy.... pretty sure some of them dropped from alerts. Again, instant endo/credits and reward is missing. Nightmare alerts with a cool mod? Now you have to choose, and way too slow. You could have everything just by being in the right place, right time. They should've just upped alert duration and frequency (+variety?). I don't know who thought this was a good idea.

edit: I know the difference between the 2 nightmare types, but opening up 20 different planets and having random nightmare mods drop cannot be a good replacement against the guaranteed mod, we wanted to reduce the amount of grind/duplicates/randomness with the new system.

Edited by niutp
nightmare missions
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Just finished hopping on to collect daily since that's really all I can muster most days. Saw that the transmissions are now this new event thingy. At first I thought it was a new story arc with how it was presented. But then I saw the store front for Nightwave and quickly realized what it really is....just more of the same boring grindy stuff. Honestly nothing in there interested me. The Umbral Forma was only thing halfway interesting me, but then I remembered "oh wait, you don't have time in your life to even grind for random umbra stuff....let alone basic stuff." Warframe is my go-to to just have fun an pass the time. But it has quickly become a game not worth playing. It rewards the hardcore disproportionately more than the casual. Way back when, I was on Warframe religiously. Did many hours, did all I could. But life exists. You are turning this game into one of those that really thinks people will plan their day around you. And even when something new comes out to do, the rewards are pretty mediocre. How many different ways are there now to get the same rewards? Why isn't Nightwave an endgame thing? Why not start increasing Warframe level caps? I find it pretty dumb that wee are stuck at 30, yet enemies go way higher. Mods can only do so much. Even if I could get all the best mods for my weapons and frame, being stuck at 30 with the theoretical best gets dull quick. There's no real new content! Everything is the same weak stuff redone. There should be level 31+ stuff. Or even ways to upgrade base stats permanently (then mods on top). 

I did 3 Nightwave things and got standing from them. I can already tell I won't do many more. No incentive, just the grind. Seeing how it's designed to reward the players that get on religiously and us with commitments will never see level 30....yeah might as well never do it.

Want constructive criticism?

1) start making true endgame stuff. Let us get higher level base weapons to work with. Let us level up past 30.
2) Turn Nightwave into a STORY arc. Maybe it can be how we save space mom? I'm sure space aunt can easily be incorporated. 
3) Stop making new things and acting like it's the best thing since sliced bread when in reality it's just a new grind fest to earn rewards we have seen a million times over.
4) Make rewards represent the grind. As someone else pointed out, several level rewards are best left as purchase items since they are mediocre for the level they are in (seriously, why is a noggle a reward?)
5) Actually work on the story. The Second Dream was awesome. IT proved you guys can do it. What have we had since then? Warframe is pretty much a non-game without story arcs. If I wanted to run and shoot for loot, I'd pick up Minecraft and keep hunting the creepers that keep appearing around my base. Can never have enough gunpowder. I'm sure many are dying to continue the "Lotus arc" as I consider it to be. Or are Tenno such pathetic individuals that they are going to abandon space mom?
6) The community has time and again proven we work either solo or in minimal hunting packs. The current state of gaming is very toxic for playing with randoms (deal with annoying players, not sticking to mission, etc etc). I for one have stopped entertaining the idea of "making friends" on a game. They aren't friends, they are game buddies. So stop trying to make things that try to ram co-op down our throats. Besides, ninjas work best as lone operatives (even when they go in as a group...each did a task alone). 

Overall, I just don't see any reason to pick up Warframe more often unless there's a new story. Grind-fests are not fun without a reason. As far as I'm concerned, my fairly middle of the road Ember Prime is good enough. Give me a reason to grind. Levels past 31. Weapons being upgradable at higher than 30 level needing parts (not talking forma which is mod related, talking increase base requires new parts). New higher tier weapon that starts at above level 30 and can only be handled by a Warframe above 30. This new concept of using archwing weapons without the archwing is a step in right direction; it's kinda an upgrade requiring a new part and in a way higher level (standing). Warframe gameplay stagnates at level 30. To give you a hypothetical: if I had every frame and weapon at level 30 and all you do is add new grindy missions or far apart story mission....what reason do I have to play?

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12 minutes ago, niutp said:

And where are we going to have alert mods now? Chilled, Seeking fury, intensify, contiunity, split chamber, focus energy.... pretty sure some of them dropped from alerts. Again, instant endo/credits and reward is missing. Nightmare alerts with a cool mod? Now you have to choose, and way too slow. You could have everything just by being in the right place, right time. They should've just upped alert duration and frequency (+variety?). I don't know who thought this was a good idea.

All those mods removed from Alerts you now have to farm from where they dropped, in Nightmare missions, Void containers and so on.

 

And hope you get the right one.

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Are the Wolf of Saturn and his hammer going to be limited to this season ?

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34 minutes ago, Nechiku said:

Are the Wolf of Saturn and his hammer going to be limited to this season ?

Probably yes, but Space mom said in the twitch that as the event continues he will appear more and more often, same with convicts.

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1 hour ago, Drivrius said:

Probably yes, but Space mom said in the twitch that as the event continues he will appear more and more often, same with convicts.

That can come and become a nuisance or even a real problem if he really is as tanky and hard hitting as some have said he is.
Was really disappointed by the nonresponse on the stream.
"We hear you, we are taking notes, we are thinking about Series 2"
In other words, probably sticking to their guns and not changing series 1 for the better.
It's just so lifeless, empty, shallow and tedious this Nightwave, I still try my best to understand and fail in seeing how people are praising it for "the lore", this too right after Anthem and the criticisms people like Yahtzee and Sterling have made about a reliance on lore over storytelling, where devs think you just make everything better by vaguely referring to things surrounding your circumstances, but not giving any direct concrete meaning to your actions - No, even going the opposite direction and making your actions even more divorced from impacting a story!

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3 hours ago, niutp said:

And where are we going to have alert mods now? Chilled, Seeking fury, intensify, contiunity, split chamber, focus energy.... pretty sure some of them dropped from alerts. Again, instant endo/credits and reward is missing. Nightmare alerts with a cool mod? Now you have to choose, and way too slow. You could have everything just by being in the right place, right time. They should've just upped alert duration and frequency (+variety?). I don't know who thought this was a good idea.

Thats the irony the people in defense of removing alerts seem to think we can get everything on nightwave as we please, lol instead of waiting a few hours for an alert you really want now you have to wait a few month for the items in the wolf cred store to rotate. Lol all I got to say DE check my account please you will see I am like many a paying customer who has pumped a considerable amount into this game in a short period, I even got a Rage Pack the other day quite apt I thought given my mood on this money grab you are doing with the new system and that is what it is really about, they don't want people to progress so fast without spending more money. If we are sticking with this new system as a replacement instead of an addition I won't be getting another pack or plat and nor can I see me playing much more as you have taken away one of the aspects I really enjoyed that helped break up my days gaming I'm already suffering burnout from this lol I should be enjoying all that plat and new primes I just bought instead of wondering why I bothered!

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Don't you think this would make it harder for newer players getting stuff since some of those Missions you need to have extremely good gear.

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3 hours ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

That can come and become a nuisance or even a real problem if he really is as tanky and hard hitting as some have said he is.
Was really disappointed by the nonresponse on the stream.
"We hear you, we are taking notes, we are thinking about Series 2"
In other words, probably sticking to their guns and not changing series 1 for the better.
It's just so lifeless, empty, shallow and tedious this Nightwave, I still try my best to understand and fail in seeing how people are praising it for "the lore", this too right after Anthem and the criticisms people like Yahtzee and Sterling have made about a reliance on lore over storytelling, where devs think you just make everything better by vaguely referring to things surrounding your circumstances, but not giving any direct concrete meaning to your actions - No, even going the opposite direction and making your actions even more divorced from impacting a story!

The only thing that will make DE change things is a severe drop in the player base, ergo a drop in income, nothing else will change their course of action., and I hope it happens soon.

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Okay the following challenges don't seem possible without considerable gear or the completed star chart:

- Animator: 5 sculptures is simply too much without access to Arbitrations. 3k reward

- Sortie with Friends: this one is problematic for play style reasons and also minimum gear requirements (they're not very high but they are still there) 5k reward

- Hydrolist Hunter: requires quite a bit of gear you cannot get without max rank with the Quills and/or Vox Solaris. 5k reward

 

That's a total of 13k rewards out of the 50K total possible from challenges alone per week, 37/50*100 = 74%

 

That is well above the mark given to us in the last Twitch stream, which is "about 65% of all challenges in the following 10 weeks or so" to get the final reward.

 

So if the other challenges in the rotation are not something insane like: "kill 3 Stalker, build a Detron, kill a Teralyst using nothing but melee weapons, etc."

 

If a new player can find the time to play Warframe for a period of about 5/6 hours every week for 10 weeks straight, they should be okay to get the end rewards.

 

The problem is that it requires a level of commitment some might not be up to, but on the other hand they have little choice in doing the challenges if they want the vital rewards that were moved from alerts to Nightwaves.

 

The thing is, are Nightwaves the bulk of what we do in WF now? Because depending on the week, 5/6 hours is all the play time I have, not for WF but all other games combined.

 

I'm going to be unable to do all challenges for a week or 2 that's for certain...

 

Here's hoping that they make the challenges less tedious (8 bounties in Cetus is not hard, just quire long specially if they bug out...), more attainable/rewarding (because a larger buffer will make up for missing some challenges in a week) or simply last longer then 10 weeks. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Drivrius said:

Here's hoping that they make the challenges less tedious (8 bounties in Cetus is not hard, just quire long specially if they bug out...), more attainable/rewarding (because a larger buffer will make up for missing some challenges in a week) or simply last longer then 10 weeks.

What would be nice is if the Nightwave season progressed on a player basis, so you can spend as much time as you like doing season1, then once your done and you have your Forma and armor you move onto season2 but that would actually be fun and fair to all players once combined with the Alert system being reinstated a their was no reason to remove it in the first place as all it does is makes the grind more tedious and that is coming from someone who plays and loves GTA.

 

Edit

They claimed it was so people don't miss out, so why not make it that way.

Edited by TheSkunkyMonk
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Posted (edited)

PSA, regarding those "alert mods" I've seen brought up here and there: they're Nightmare mods. They come from Nightmare missions. Nightmare missions still exist. Take a look around the star chart on planets where you've cleared all of the nodes.

Here's the wiki page on Nightmare missions: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Nightmare_Mode
Here's the wiki page listing all of the Nightmare mods: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Nightmare_Mode_Mods

Speaking of Nightmare missions, I'd like to address how they're presented, if I may. I've seen a few people ask where to get Nightmare mods, now that their associated alerts are gone. Nightmare missions being an entity separate of the alert system isn't what I'd call an obscure fact, but the recent transition from the Alert system to Nightwave revealed that there are, in fact, people who didn't know there was a difference. This is not by their own fault; the difference isn't clarified in-game, as far as I can tell. It's the type of game mechanic that would typically be learned by either word of mouth, stumbling across it by accident, or most appropriately, looking it up on the internet. To this end, one of the posts above mine (niutp's) erroneously referred to the Nightmare mods as "Alert mods," and that both prompted this post and perfectly illustrates my point.

This is something that could (and should, in my opinion) be resolved for the sake of improving the user experience. I suggest a tab be added to denote active Nightmare missions; it's a bit of work, and isn't strictly necessary, but it would be informative to new- and mid-level players, and convenient for high-level ones. Invasions, Void Fissues and Sorties are afforded similar clarity and ease of access, so a Nightmare tab would fit right in. You could even take it a step further and add a tab for Kuva-related missions, but I understand this is already a tall order with little to gain. Still, I hope you'll keep it in mind, and I would love to see it become a reality.

Regardless of the outcome, I appreciate you taking the time to read this, whoever you might be. Cheers.

Edited by SparkeeLecaro
Fixed grammatical issues, tuned some of the wording.
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Posted (edited)

I went back and did some more math. I made a list of all the alerts from a single day (Feb 21st) then added up mostly all the rewards.
Check it out here if yer curious:https://pastebin.com/raw/BrAVctzP

After 1 day, if you did every single alert, you could get the following. (I was going to do 1 week for alerts as well but there was just too much stuff)
1,079,700 Credits
17 Blueprints
6 Mods
2,200 Endo
4 Nitain
60 Void Traces
MISC Resources

After 1 week in the new system, if you do all the weekly challenges, including the dailies, you'll get 45k, and if yer starting at rank 0 as a new player would be, you will get to rank 4 and you can get the following.
1 Sigil, 2 Glyphs, 50 Wolf Creds, and 2 Weapon Slots.
With those 50 credits, you can buy:
2 Mods OR
1 Helmet and 5 Nitain OR
2 Vauban Parts OR
1 Weapon Blueprint OR
15 Nitain OR
1 Weapon Skin
That's it, Nothing else...

BUT if you take into account that most new players can't do sorties, won't find 5 ayatans in a week, won't be helping much in a Hydrolist fight, and if they're not yet far enough on the star chart to scan stuff for Simaris then you can lop off 16k right there, so they'd only end up getting 29000. They'd either have to wait for an 8th day to get that 1k daily or they'd have to be in a squad and capture 20 of these escapees to get to rank 3 if they wanted those creds on their 7th day.

Take this how you will.

Edited by GentlePuppet
Added some more extra math that Leon pointed out.
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Drivrius said:

Yeah one of my favorite Warframe Youtubers said: "Those who say it's too grindy should shut up or leave, preferably both"

 

Apparently having a different opinion that him means I should quit the game...

 

I just hope DE does something to help new players, I don't really care that they want me to spend all my free time on Warframe, but don't alienate new players with this system please!

 

youtubers and twitch streamers are saying that coz they are just trying to 'sell' the new thing.

but, i do not really care if a twitch streamer or a yourtube creator is trying to convince me this new alert system is convenient, coz i can see it for myself that it is not convenient at all.

most of those ones won't even be bothered with the nightwaves system some days/weeks from now, you'll see.

hell, some of them won't even be bothered with warframe altogether some days/weeks from now, when this whole thing settles down a bit, let alone stream the nightwaves.

and that's coz they will go to another game, to make money out of it too, up til a newer content is released to warframe again for them to do the same.

lets see how many of them will be streaming and/or creating content about nightwaves in let's say, 15 days from now.

 

Edited by No1Eye
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Moscatinka said:

It's funny how every other post in this thread seems to be from a MR26 who claims this new system is worse for newer players. As someone who is nowhere near MR26 yet, new enough for my MR1 antics to still be fresh in my memory, and who still needs many of the items in these loot lists, I ask you all, pretty please with sugar on top: stop trying to represent me!

The only reason the alert is system was nice for new players is because when you're entirely new, every aura or alert mod you score is a new toy to play with. This hasn't changed, the same is true for the new system. But once you have gathered say 30% of the auras, 3 out of every 10 aura alerts is wasted on you and you end up chasing some lame website so you can finally find yourself a corrosive projection or energy syphon that you desperately need to pull your weight. The new system allows me to get those auras and cosmetic items I still need with much more efficiency and lets me choose (with some limitations due to rotation) which aura or helmet I want to have first.

There is just absolutely no way in which an entirely random system is on average going to give you a complete collection faster than a system that lets you choose from rotations. That is simple mathematical fact. The new system is a much better way to get the items you really need first, and to get your complete collection (if you're the kind of player who goes for that) much faster. On top of that, in the old system if an aura came up that you needed badly, you had to run a freaking vampire nightmare mode interception or something similarly excruciating for a player with not much gear to get the reward. In the new system at least you have plenty of choice on how you're going to get the standing to earn that wolf cred.

As is obvious for any overhaul like this, and as DE has indicated themselves in posts and streams, some balancing and review of rewards vs investment will still be needed. I'm sure DE is running the necessary daily statistics to see if the average player is getting their satisfaction and the hardcore player is getting their completionism fix, but those have nothing to do with the system they have put in play here, which is just leagues better than a bunch of random timed missions with a one time reward that you may or may not see back again within any given period of time.

 

 

ok, new player, good luck not doing half of those challenges then, coz you cannot even reach half of them yet anyway or coz nobody will be willing to carry you for hours/days to them.

til now, the more progressed ones were able to carry some newbies to the alerts, coz you went in and 5-10 minutes later you were out with the reward collected.

what are you gonna do now?

ask in the general chat or your friends to taxi you to hours/days of grind by carrying you to half or even more of the challenges you cannot even do yourself?

good luck doing that.

not to mention, the time required to reach to the rewards you aim at is way longer than before.

we, the more progressed ones, can see the flaw on that system, you do not yet, but you will in a while.

Edited by No1Eye
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52 minutes ago, No1Eye said:

~Snip~

 

Not to mention us "more progressed" players already have everything that the old system dropped. We've already got all the mods and blueprints, most of us have already built everything needing nitain and we have a stockpile of 40+ just laying around.
We're not arguing for our sake, we don't care about the rewards, we can see the numbers, we know the time required to meet the numbers from experience, we've played warframe so much we know how long something will take, we are arguing FOR the new players so they won't have to fight unfair amounts of grinding for the simple stuff that helped them to progress and actually play the game.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GentlePuppet said:

I went back and did some more math. I made a list of all the alerts from a single day (Feb 21st) then added up mostly all the rewards.
Check it out here if yer curious:https://pastebin.com/raw/BrAVctzP

After 1 day, if you did every single alert, you could get the following. (I was going to do 1 week for alerts as well but there was just too much stuff)
1,079,700 Credits
17 Blueprints
6 Mods
2,200 Endo
4 Nitain
60 Void Traces
MISC Resources

After 1 week in the new system, if you do all the weekly challenges, including the dailies, you'll get 45k, and if yer starting at rank 0 as a new player would be, you will get to rank 4 and you can get the following.
1 Sigil, 2 Glyphs, 50 Wolf Creds, and 2 Weapon Slots.
With those 50 credits, you can buy:
2 Mods OR
1 Helmet and 5 Nitain OR
2 Vauban Parts OR
1 Weapon Blueprint OR
15 Nitain OR
1 Weapon Skin
That's it, Nothing else...

Take this how you will.

I duno how you how your math works but lets go with this first

- a rang 0 player, you cant go and do Sorties.

- a rang 0 player is sure not able to make Arbitrations.

- a rang 0 player is sure not able to kill a Hydrolist since hes not even able to play in operator form.

 

EDIT:

- a rang 0 player also cant go and scan stuff for cephalon simaris.

 

So yea about "the new system is new player friendly"~

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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Posted (edited)

Deleted cuz post turn out wrong and posted a fixed post already

Edited by (PS4)ArcAvenger89
Deleted cuz post turn out wrong and posted a fixed post already
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