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Nightwave: Series 1


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1 hour ago, KroneVanguard said:
I can't believe how they didn't understand that Alerts made the game look alive and were a meeting point for all kinds of players.
Well... Maybe not the super nerds, but who cares about them? ūü§≠

That's what is so fascinating about this whole thing.  Almost everyone who has actually PLAYED the game knows about the benefits of alerts, despite the obvious improvements that could still be made to them.

If the majority of the feedback they hear is from their most diehard fans from their streams and forums, and they latch onto some remark from a player with over 3k hours who says "alerts are useless", then it makes sense as to why they couldn't see this coming.  Either they forgot about a huge portion of their playerbase, or they are deliberately catering to the more niche players and ignoring the rest of us.

I can see how it's difficult to get a read on the community a lot of the time, especially given how varied it is, but I'm not sure if I've seen such lack of awareness from DE before.

We rarely agree on the details or minutia, but when this many people sincerely want alerts back, I think it's safe to say you done goofed.

Think 'big picture' DE.  Not just what the most vocal amongst us say.

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1 hour ago, Emposteel said:

Since this update is oriented toward new players having easier and reliable ways of getting things from alerts why not:

 

PUT AURAS INTO JUNCTIONS REWARDS

100% reliable, beginner friendly

And keep it in nightwave if you want ( somebody might want duplicates).

I really think it's the best solution concerning at least auras

The auras were extremely important to me when I was a newbie. Heck, there's still some I don't have and wish I had. I'm not going to pay plat for them though.

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4 minutes ago, PR0JAX said:

That's what is so fascinating about this whole thing.  Almost everyone who has actually PLAYED the game knows about the benefits of alerts, despite the obvious improvements that could still be made to them.

If the majority of the feedback they hear is from their most diehard fans from their streams and forums, and they latch onto some remark from a player with over 3k hours who says "alerts are useless", then it makes sense as to why they couldn't see this coming.  Either they forgot about a huge portion of their playerbase, or they are deliberately catering to the more niche players and ignoring the rest of us.

I can see how it's difficult to get a read on the community a lot of the time, especially given how varied it is, but I'm not sure if I've seen such lack of awareness from DE before.

We rarely agree on the details or minutia, but when this many people sincerely want alerts back, I think it's safe to say you done goofed.

Think 'big picture' DE.  Not just what the most vocal amongst us say.

That's what kills me. They listen to the elite players who have forgotten what it was like when they started.

One of them stated he could start over and be perfectly fine. He already knows and has experienced everything about it! Erase your memory then let's see.

Yeah, I played it years ago on the PC then later on the Xbox and finally to the PS4. Yeah, I already knew how to play so starting over wasn't hard. 

Personally I love it. I could eat, drink and sleep Warframe. I was always excited when they brought something new to the game.

But removing the Alerts made me choke. They're always making adjustments like nerfing a weapon or Warframe and that was because of the elite exploiting it. I never got to do it. They're just a hundred times better than me. Those guys are always going to find a way to expoit a weekness.

Our voice doesn't count. This forum proves that.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Dr_Bruiser said:

That trivializes the whole concept of having "elite" challenges.  I'm MR 14 and relatively new to the game.  So far, I've been able to do about half of the 'elite' challenges, and with some effort, probably could have done most or all of them.  I don't think it is reasonable for me to expect to obtain all the same rewards that high level veterans can achieve in a system like this, especially in the first round.  Players should experience a feeling of progression as they advance in the game so that completing things like elite challenges become achievable, and then you reap the rewards for them.

I agree with keeping Nightwave. It's really pretty cool. And yes, there should be rewards for the elite players. New players don't expect that to fall in their lap.

But, with the Alerts they could easily get Nitain and I think that is the biggest issue here. Nitain is so value and we all looked forward to getting them. Now it's a whole thing. Doable, yes. Just not as easy.

That was the biggest issue with getting rid of the alerts, Nitain.

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My final opinion is the same as my first impressions.

Good changes from rng alerts, unnecessary lore and annoying popups you cannot turn off.

I also want to point out the lack of daily challenges vs weekly challenges gives off really bad destiny 2 vibes.. that game you played once a week to get your weekly, then there was nothing to do. This is no better as the one daily you get each day is conpleted in no time.

A minimum of 4 or more dailys each day would be ideal. I do not mind if the rewarded xp is lower per but the goals need to be present.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

My final opinion is the same as my first impressions.

Good changes from rng alerts, unnecessary lore and annoying popups you cannot turn off.

I also want to point out the lack of daily challenges vs weekly challenges gives off really bad destiny 2 vibes.. that game you played once a week to get your weekly, then there was nothing to do. This is no better as the one daily you get each day is conpleted in no time.

A minimum of 4 or more dailys each day would be ideal. I do not mind if the rewarded xp is lower per but the goals need to be present.

Absolutely agree that there needs to be more dailies.  I think one of the reasons the absence of alerts feels as bad as it does is because there aren't anymore short-term goals to complete once you get those out of the way.  I mean, you can run sortie, but then what?  Invasions?  I already got everything I want from those.  More relics?  I'm already burned out from farming mesa prime.

I don't want any of my earlier comments to sound too negative either, as there are things I really like about Nightwave (weapon slots, frame slots, umbral forma, cosmetics, new achievement-style challenges, a resource store, etc. etc.).  The fact that this was a simultaneous update across all platforms was impressive in itself, and the Warriors reference is awesome.  If they took the universally loved parts of Nightwave and rolled it back into the old system, I think that would make a lot of people happy.

But the way they've handled it so far... I don't know if this is a precursor to something more cynical, this update was an honest miscalculation, or just rushed.  If it was done this way to prepare for an even better system down the road, a little acknowledgement of some kind would put me at ease.

Whatever the reason, I'd suggest DE to take a break and really reflect on what kind of game they want Warframe to be.

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At least if the Steam charts are anything to go by, then it looks like the majority of people who first logged into Warframe to check out the new Nightwave update (and there weren't many who got interested by the news in the first place apparently, the spike is mild) are slowly waning again and returning to numbers pre-Nightwave.
https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#1m
Hopefully this will send a clear signal to the devs that this update was the wrong direction for the game and doesn't engage players positively.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

My final opinion is the same as my first impressions.

Good changes from rng alerts, unnecessary lore and annoying popups you cannot turn off.

I also want to point out the lack of daily challenges vs weekly challenges gives off really bad destiny 2 vibes.. that game you played once a week to get your weekly, then there was nothing to do. This is no better as the one daily you get each day is conpleted in no time.

A minimum of 4 or more dailys each day would be ideal. I do not mind if the rewarded xp is lower per but the goals need to be present.

The only thing I want to turn off, is that stupid radio thing. I'll give them a limited amount of time for restoring the Alerts and the fun, then I'll unistall the game 'cause is boring as fuk to me as it is now. I'm already thinking to reinstall Skyrim. ūüėē

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8 hours ago, (PS4)mcfar53 said:

That's what kills me. They listen to the elite players who have forgotten what it was like when they starÔĽŅted.

One of them stated he could start over and be perfectly fine. He already knows and has experienced everything about it! Erase your memory then let's see.

Yeah, I played it years ago on the PC then later on the Xbox and finally to the PS4. Yeah, I already knew how to play so starting over wasn't hard. 

Personally I love it. I could eat, drink and sleep Warframe. I was always excited when they brought something new to the game.

But removing the Alerts made me choke. They're always making adjustments like nerfing a weapon or Warframe and that was because of the elite exploiting it. I never got to do it. They're just a hundred times better than me. Those guys are always going to find a way to expoit a weekness.

Our voice doesn't count. This forum proves that. ÔĽŅ

SO.. we will all stay beginners for all the time that we are playing here.. ? If one thing has happened is that the beginner players have been tailored to too much.  Imagine you playing in half a year or a year or two.. things get too damn easy.  If DE keeps tailoring to beginning players, the better players and the older players will leave the game..

 

What do YOU want to do when you get good in this game?  cheesing everything isnt fun at all

What we need is more challenging content, and definitely not easier content.

I am pretty happy that the alerts have gone.. run in grab the stuff get out and build.. 1.minute and 23 seconds for the mission.. now at least people have to play the game to get the standing and with it the items. I think what they put in as rewards is a HUGE improvement compared to the old alerts.

 

it sounds like most of the people complaining here have been getting too much stuff too easy.. and now they cry that they have to do some work for it..

 

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6 minutes ago, THE_ZEEK said:

SO.. we will all stay beginners for all the time that we are playing here.. ? If one thing has happened is that the beginner players have been tailored to too much.  Imagine you playing in half a year or a year or two.. things get too damn easy.  If DE keeps tailoring to beginning players, the better players and the older players will leave the game..

 

What do YOU want to do when you get good in this game?  cheesing everything isnt fun at all

What we need is more challenging content, and definitely not easier content.

I am pretty happy that the alerts have gone.. run in grab the stuff get out and build.. 1.minute and 23 seconds for the mission.. now at least people have to play the game to get the standing and with it the items. I think what they put in as rewards is a HUGE improvement compared to the old alerts.

 

it sounds like most of the people complaining here have been getting too much stuff too easy.. and now they cry that they have to do some work for it..

 

I started playing near the beta and I've ran out of things to do years ago, except maybe going all the way to MR26 (but I don't see the point if I already have all the builds I like).  So I look forward to any and all new content we do get.  More challenging content is needed, yes.  But I don't want to push away new players either, and I can empathize with that daunting experience of trying to find resources and crafting my first rhino.

I still got some enjoyment out of alerts every now and then, even though I am way overgeared for it.  Sometimes it's nice to just pick whatever pops up on the console and melt a few grineer after a stressful day at work.  I like that better than sitting in a corner with Nekros for an hour.  Now even that simple activity is taken away from me, and I am tempted to play other games instead.

But hey, I'm not going to judge anyone for what content they like or dislike.  There's room enough in the galaxy for all types of tenno.  I just want more content, not less.

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1 hour ago, PR0JAX said:

[...]

But hey, I'm not going to judge anyone for what content they like or dislike.¬† There's room enough in the galaxy for all types of tennoÔĽŅ.¬† I just want more content, not less.

Exactly. Give me back my Alerts then. I don't want to play those stupid challenges. ūüėē

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1 hour ago, THE_ZEEK said:

SO.. we will all stay beginners for all the time that we are playing here.. ? If one thing has happened is that the beginner players have been tailored to too much.  Imagine you playing in half a year or a year or two.. things get too damn easy.  If DE keeps tailoring to beginning players, the better players and the older players will leave the game..

 

What do YOU want to do when you get good in this game?  cheesing everything isnt fun at all

What we need is more challenging content, and definitely not easier content.

I am pretty happy that the alerts have gone.. run in grab the stuff get out and build.. 1.minute and 23 seconds for the mission.. now at least people have to play the game to get the standing and with it the items. I think what they put in as rewards is a HUGE improvement compared to the old alerts.

 

it sounds like most of the people complaining here have been getting too much stuff too easy.. and now they cry that they have to do some work for it..

 

Ok so first most games can be mastered the more you play so if you have been playing Warframe for 1 or 2+ years...yeah i would expect that player to be skilled and able to do things in the game i can only dream about.

Second yeah the teir rewards are nice but if you really read the comments you would have realized that the biggest compliant is the wolf credits and how they are handed out. Everybody before nightwave could do a quick mission and get mods, auras, resources,  credits, nintain, alt helm/weapon blue print, kavat dna, kubrow eggs, orokin catalyst/reactor, etc. This new system lets veteran and skilled players get amazing cool rewards sure but it locks newbie and under skilled players from all that alert stuff now. There are newbies out there that wont even be teir 3 til week 3, are you really ok telling them oh well that getting nintain took you 3 weeks now but at least i get some umbral forma so its for the best. 

Third stating that DE is tailoring to mostly begginers is ridiculous, advance players have been given sorties, arbitration, elite sanctuary, eidilons, orb mothers(with more orb bosses coming in the future), and even more content coming down the road. Now if you mastered all that content or wish it was harder and it is now all easy for you then Congratulations, no seriously if your that good then congrats cuz i hope to be able to be that great at Warframe one day. Unfortunately even if your that good where everything is too easy and you wish it would have taken you longer to reach that point, doesn't mean that DE making things that anybody including newbies could get in mintues before into a gigantic grind fest is a great thing. Alerts was a system that was for everybody no matter skill/mr/time played/equipment/etc.; Now alerts are gone and all we have is Nightwave a system that caters to those with skills, lots of time to play, and the right equipment. This is the reason why so many comments say why cant we have both, or why cant wolf credits be easier to acquire, or why cant nightwave and the new cred store be two different entities,  etc. Most people dont want to make getting those really nice teir rewards extremely easy for everybody, what most people want is for newbies to be able to get the stuff they "need" easily by doing what they are able to like in the alerts system while letting veterans get the new stuff they "want" by putting in some work(though the amount of work for reward is still a bit iffy seeing as we have things like a one hour survial this week is equal to one sortie last week somehow)

In the end your entitled to your opnion as is everybody but please dont belittle people by saying what people are doing is crying or saying that everybody just wants stuff handed to them. These post for the most part are about the flaws people see in the new system and about potiental ideas to remedy those flaws. If you want to post that you disagree with what you are seeing people suggest and that you actually like the system then your welcome to as is everybody,  just please be civil and dont try make fun of people who have a different view point, in the end the only one that ends up looking childish is you. You could have easily say you disagree with people and that you like it and the reason why you like it, so based on your comment you could have said something like that you think it engages players more and makes the rewards feel earned. See its a simple answer but one that can express your feeling without having to take a jab or trying to degrade anybody else's opnion/suggestions/post.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)ArcAvenger89 said:

This new system lets veteran and skilled players get amazing cool rewards sure but it locks newbie and under skilled players from all that alert stuff now. There are newbies out there that wont even be teir 3 til week 3, are you really ok telling them oh well that getting nintain took you 3 weeks now but at least i get some umbral forma so its for the best.

Thanks for replying in such an extensive way. but here is the deal.. why should everything be available at once in the game.. There is a natural progression getting stuff out there. (although i do agree that nitain should be more readily available or reduced when getting Vauban)

3 hours ago, (PS4)ArcAvenger89 said:

Third stating that DE is tailoring to mostly beginners is ridiculous, advance players have been given sorties, arbitration, elite sanctuary, eidilons, orb mothers(with more orb bosses coming in the future)

after which it got reduced in difficulty, nerfed, etc.. this is made to be too easy for many of the somewhat more advanced players. There are a lot of teams out there that are open for people coming in and helping them out getting to learn the game and carrying them through content. It does seem that the less advanced players are counting on that and indeed will sit in a corner or hide away or AFK'ing..  Fortuna profit taker mission 4 is being nerfed as we speak..  Elite sanctuary is there because its ELITE.. ther wasnt even going to be a normal version.. again tailored top the beginner. Sorties can be done with any rhino with some mods and a decent weapon.  just saying..

The problem is, when making everything accessible for any level, you stimulate non participation from less skilled players. Having content in a game that is too difficult to get into is crux for the natural progression of a gamer into learning about the game and building gear accordingly. That what makes skill.

3 hours ago, (PS4)ArcAvenger89 said:

 Alerts was a system that was for everybody no matter skill/mr/time played/equipment/etc.; Now alerts are gone and all we have is Nightwave a system that caters to those with skills, lots of time to play, and the right equipment. This is the reason why so many comments say why cant we have both, or why cant wolf credits be easier to acquire, or why cant nightwave and the new cred store be two different entities,  etc. Most people dont want to make getting those really nice teir rewards extremely easy for everybody, what most people want is for newbies to be able to get the stuff they "need" easily by doing what they are able to like in the alerts system while letting veterans get the new stuff they "want" by putting in some work(though the amount of work for reward is still a bit iffy seeing as we have things like a one hour survial this week is equal to one sortie last week somehow)

The issue with the alerts systems has always been.. if you missed it.. wait for it to drop again.. They replaced it with a much requested token system.. here we have it. The problem with wanting it all is that every time you ask for something and just assume it will be replaced by something better is the majority complaining about a system which is actually fine.  Like wolf of saturn 6. Of course we need something more to get easy access to the essential resources, like in the past with Oxium. We do need an easier way to get nitain . But then for all the other items.. its nice to get slots, forma package, etc... the rewards have been better than ever!

And oh well if i cant buy that loki helmet with wolf credits or that i have to make a choice of what to choose to buy this time. It is NOT only 1 time ever!  this is a series of wolf missions.. there will be more coming and time enough to get the stuff you want.  but it seems we want it all or we complain. and i dont agree with that.

There is so much to think about and learn about when getting as a beginner ready for doing a 1 hour kuva mission.. its a good thing to think about even for a casual player.

we seem eager to jump to conclusions when at the moment all you have to do is play the missions.. There are a few more difficult missions in there, but WANTING to do them will make you connect with more people, play in different compositions and allow you to learn from the games you play and create a skill.

and that doesnt come for free.. 

 

Skill; is the true value/currency of the game.. with having to more difficult content you become better by learning from mistakes and looking at how other take on content. We are playing a looter /SHOOTER  where people want to be looting but not learn how to shoot. i am pretty happy that has changed a little now.

 

Z

 

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5 hours ago, THE_ZEEK said:

SO.. we will all stay beginners for all the time that we are playing here.. ? If one thing has happened is that the beginner players have been tailored to too much.  Imagine you playing in half a year or a year or two.. things get too damn easy.  If DE keeps tailoring to beginning players, the better players and the older players will leave the game..

 

What do YOU want to do when you get good in this game?  cheesing everything isnt fun at all

What we need is more challenging content, and definitely not easier content.

I am pretty happy that the alerts have gone.. run in grab the stuff get out and build.. 1.minute and 23 seconds for the mission.. now at least people have to play the game to get the standing and with it the items. I think what they put in as rewards is a HUGE improvement compared to the old alerts.

 

it sounds like most of the people complaining here have been getting too much stuff too easy.. and now they cry that they have to do some work for it..

 

No, no, no. That's not at all what we are saying. You are projecting. I'm not a newbie. In fact I started when Warframe just began, left, came back on the Xbox, left and now I'm on the PS4. I'm MR19 going on 20.

DE doesn't always tailor to the new players. We are not all YOU. You're obviously a better player than me. 

Cheese? Good Grief Man! No! And I absolutely agree with you. We need more challenging things. 

We aren't saying we need easier content. A lot of us Welcome Nightwave. Heck, I absolutely love it! I don't have a problem with it!!!

But there was nothing wrong with the Alerts. In fact it didn't at all make the game easier. Giving away a thousand credits? A small amount of resources? A helmet? A sword? Barring the Nitain, a very valuable resource, the rest is trivial to you and most Players. 

You can't live off of crumbs but you have to start somewhere. The Alerts were NEVER designed for advanced players. It was designed to help new players. You and I both know there's places to get far more credits and resources than alerts offer. I have more than 20 million credits, More Endo than I'll ever need and an easy way to get it, Statues for decorations, almost every Warframe and weapon, barring some that are vaulted, lots of prime parts and plat.

But I understand Both sides. New and elite alike.

Some Advanced Players are projecting. They forget their place. They say if we don't agree we are cry babies and asking for a handout.

Challenge, yes, love it. DE has NEVER just catered to the newbies. They always bring out new challenges. Do You think a newbie could handle a nightmare mission?

Instead of condemnation shouldn't we be helping each other? Understand the game? Play the game? Isn't that what the community is for? Isn't that what DE wants? Yes!

Name calling? That's never a good thing.

Reach out and invite them to this Awesome game! I love Nightwave and have repeatedly stated this fact. I think it's AWESOME! And so do most of the players in this thread. 

All they're asking for is Balance.

 

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6 hours ago, THE_ZEEK said:

SO.. we will all stay beginners for all the time that we are playing here.. ? If one thing has happened is that the beginner players have been tailored to too much.  Imagine you playing in half a year or a year or two.. things get too damn easy.  If DE keeps tailoring to beginning players, the better players and the older players will leave the game..

Ehm, there are enough stats out there (and even DE showed lots in a devstream end of last year) that ~95% of all players are under MR15. So if from one day to the next lets say all MR20+ players leave the game (that includes me), nobody might notice. Not even DE, because veteran players are not buying plat, they just sell stuff they have in their inventories for years and get more plat they'd ever need, or use their maxed standings everywhere to quickly farm high value stuff to sell. So indeed, DE should tailor more for their base players. Sorry to say that does not include you (anymore).

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To the advanced players, Alerts mean nothing. To newbies it's a way to learn to play. New players need the crumbs that are offered to get started. Get the weapons that you wouldn't get caught Dead playing with. And get one of the most valuable items, Nitain.

I've got more credits, Endo, Warframes, weapons, prime parts, mods, Nitain and Plat than I'll ever need.

Some Advanced Players, Elite players forget their place! They have absolutely lost their memory of what it was like in the beginning. They forget what the community is for. Name calling has replaced courtesy and assistance. Not all advanced players, thank goodness.

Do you think advanced players would go after these crumbs that are offered like a "Pac Man" game? New players are not complaining about Nightwave necessary, their upset about the loss of the Alerts. 

At the risk of repeating myself, Alerts helped with learning the ropes. Drawing them in. Giving them a start, and again, A weapon that you wouldn't be caught Dead playing with that's really cool to them, credits and resources that's desperately needed.

Shouldn't an advanced player be encouraging a newbie, helping them understand the game, coming together as the community as intended by DE and helping with Nightwave as well?

I see where an advanced player is coming from but I also see the challenges of a new player.

Encourage instead of discourage. Entice instead of incite. Help instead of hinder. 

Slapping each other around isn't helpful.

DE works hard to bring new content which is intended for the new and advanced alike. They've always kept that in mind.

Warframe is an awesome game. Nightwave is a fantastic addition.

Let's help each other see that.

 

 

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Auras and nitain need to be added to invasions.

The big problem with the change from alerts is for new players.  Auras are *crucial* to have access to early on.  Even weaker auras are still important for the capacity boost they give.  It is important for new players to quickly build a base collection.  Old alerts were perfect for this.  For a new player who still needs every single reward on offer, they were an absolute treasure trove.  Sure veterans may have only seen 1-2 things per week that they actually wanted, but new players (either through star chart access or a taxi) saw multiple worthwhile alerts per day.  The more things you still needed the more often a "good" alert would come around.  And this was a good thing.  It boosted early progression making it quick to catch up. 

 

Nightwave is not a replacement for this.  Forcing everything into a highly limited shared resource pool makes the progression far too slow, especially since new players are heavily limited on which nightwave missions they can even complete.  Core progression items like auras and a small supply of nitain (the packs can stay in nightwave) need to be added to invasions to reclaim the old sense of progression speed for new players.  Nightwave can even keep the auras as a later stage catch-up if someone is missing a specific aura they need like CP.  There just needs to be an accessible and immediate means of tapping into the aura pool for new players to get their collections started.  One not time-gated, resource-gated, and coming at the cost of other important progression items (like the weapons and vauban).

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5 minutes ago, Callback said:

Auras and nitain need to be added to invasions.

The big problem with the change from alerts is for new players.  Auras are *crucial* to have access to early on.  Even weaker auras are still important for the capacity boost they give.  It is important for new players to quickly build a base collection.  Old alerts were perfect for this.  For a new player who still needs every single reward on offer, they were an absolute treasure trove.  Sure veterans may have only seen 1-2 things per week that they actually wanted, but new players (either through star chart access or a taxi) saw multiple worthwhile alerts per day.  The more things you still needed the more often a "good" alert would come around.  And this was a good thing.  It boosted early progression making it quick to catch up. 

 

Nightwave is not a replacement for this.  Forcing everything into a highly limited shared resource pool makes the progression far too slow, especially since new players are heavily limited on which nightwave missions they can even complete.  Core progression items like auras and a small supply of nitain (the packs can stay in nightwave) need to be added to invasions to reclaim the old sense of progression speed for new players.  Nightwave can even keep the auras as a later stage catch-up if someone is missing a *specific* aura they need like CP.  There just needs to be an accessible and immediate means of tapping into the aura pool for new players to get their collections started.  One not time-gated, resource-gated, and coming at the cost of other important progression items (like the weapons and vauban).

Thank you so much for your post! Alerts were never for the veterans barring a Nitain or two. Most veterans don't even pay attention to the Alerts. So why are they do disgruntled? How is this be affecting them? Good grief! What the heck? 

Auras are extremely important to a new player. And in the beginning all of their mods are broken. The crumbs that a new player can get in NO way affects the more experienced. Why are THEY complaining?

Nightwave is really awesome but let's at least get some balance here.

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5 minutes ago, Callback said:

Auras and nitain need to be added to invasions.

The big problem with the change from alerts is for new players.  Auras are *crucial* to have access to early on.  Even weaker auras are still important for the capacity boost they give.  It is important for new players to quickly build a base collection.  Old alerts were perfect for this.  For a new player who still needs every single reward on offer, they were an absolute treasure trove.  Sure veterans may have only seen 1-2 things per week that they actually wanted, but new players (either through star chart access or a taxi) saw multiple worthwhile alerts per day.  The more things you still needed the more often a "good" alert would come around.  And this was a good thing.  It boosted early progression making it quick to catch up. 

 

Nightwave is not a replacement for this.  Forcing everything into a highly limited shared resource pool makes the progression far too slow, especially since new players are heavily limited on which nightwave missions they can even complete.  Core progression items like auras and a small supply of nitain (the packs can stay in nightwave) need to be added to invasions to reclaim the old sense of progression speed for new players.  Nightwave can even keep the auras as a later stage catch-up if someone is missing a *specific* aura they need like CP.  There just needs to be an accessible and immediate means of tapping into the aura pool for new players to get their collections started.  One not time-gated, resource-gated, and coming at the cost of other important progression items (like the weapons and vauban).

Thank you so much for your post! Alerts were never for the veterans barring a Nitain or two. Most veterans don't even pay attention to the Alerts. So why are they so disgruntled? How is this be affecting them? Good grief! What the heck? 

Auras are extremely important to a new player. And in the beginning all of their mods are broken. The crumbs that a new player can get in NO way affects the more experienced. Why are THEY complaining?

Nightwave is really awesome but let's at least get some balance here.

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After reading a lot of these posts I think the largest problem with the whole night wave system is that it is a limited time and tons of people are going to be missing out on the rewards. This whole system seems set up for someone that has a crazy amount of time to play or maybe it was set up by/for Warframe partners so they have something to do. The system is not friendly to new players / casual players / older players. Everyone seems to be getting a short end of the stick somewhere and I think a lot of the problems could be solved or at least made more tolerable if the even did not have a end time but rather a progression tier set up.

Maybe in the quests/alerts area kind of like you earn so much reputation you can go to stage 2 of the story/event and so on. Then move the credit shop for the new currency to its own tab in the market or make a vendor maybe kind of like Baro Ki'Teer. That would also make the system feel more like a working thing if there was another vendor moving around like Baro Ki'Teer does. This would let players progress at their own pace and no one would miss out on the content.

It seems like most people have forgotten about the event we failed on that destroyed the relays. Limited time super grindy/time intensive events are not a good thing and no one really benefits from them. Players will get worn out or lose interest and the game itself ends up being a lesser version of itself or more hollow. Destroying the relays I think did work out for the game as a story line point but the whole one time event part leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouth.

P.S. Would be nice to see a new planet or something added kind of like Mr. Universe had in Firefly. Maybe that could even be the hub you go to and get challenges/quests and to spend your wolf credits.

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I have to say I dislike how Nightwave works, it's far too grindy. I have no interest in the emotes or sigils, nor the armor. The forma packs, nitan, umbra forma and such? Love to get to them.  Too bad I have to do what amounts to a glorified standing grind on a timer that takes place mostly during the workweek.

If the returns on completing tasks were greater, the costs lower, and I had the ability to choose what I gained without some stupid leveling system based on spending 3+ hours a day grinding, I'd be fine with it. Too bad DE keeps building things to the specifications demanded by people with whole days to blow on gaming.

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15 hours ago, KroneVanguard said:

I'm already thinking to reinstall Skyrim. ūüėē

Welp.¬† Thanks...¬† Now I feel like reinstalling that game for the 6th time ūü§£

Hopefully melee 2.999 (or whatever it's called now) and the new mods that are coming soon can keep us occupied until the next inevitable uproar. 

Edited by PR0JAX
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Just want to put my two cents in.

I love the Nightwave system. It's way better than old alerts, because it has better rewards and you don't have to set up notifications on your phone or whatever just in case something useful shows up while you're off doing something other than Warframe. Yeah, some people got some things a bit faster with the alert system, but that was either due to blind luck or an excess of playtime. In the former case, it's better to have a guaranteed way to get aura mods, and in the latter case you still get to enjoy useful rewards once you've already gotten 1 of each aura you need. 

I also feel like people aren't really understanding that Nightwave is intended to be a long term thing, and are freaking out because they don't have all the rewards a week after the thing came out. 

It's not perfect, and some of the challenges need tuning. The Ayatan sculpture one is the only one that's actually bad so far. The survival-based challenges could probably have been dropped down to 40 minutes instead of 60. (And yes, it should be a long time because the entire point of the survival mode is to challenge yourself by seeing how long you can survive.)

In any case,Nightwave is fantastic and only actually needs a few tweaks.

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2 hours ago, Domrond said:

I also feel like people aren't really understanding that Nightwave is intended to be a long term thing, and are freaking out because they don't have all the rewards a week after the thing came out. 

You are also misunderstanding that Nightwave might last longer than a single alert, it's still not long term, you need long term commitment that you can't take breaks from, once you start you should continue or see your progress go to waste.
And it's not just Veterans who work for the end tiers, who care about the later tiers, but remember that in the current system you get highly limited Wolf Creds, sprinkled here and there, meaning most new players need to grind to the end tier as well if they hope to afford anything from the offerings that no veteran cares about. Prestige requires going above and beyond tier 30, to earn more than the 300 creds.
Alerts had none of that massive mountain put up infront of new or casual players.

It's not that everyone is criticising not having access to every toy immediately and think new and casuals should have the same "elite" rewards, but that how it is built currently, the linear tiers, require new players to get to the same place elitists want to achieve, just so that they can have enough creds for their offerings, that do nothing for the elitists who already have everything offered there.

11 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

I hate repeating myself, but it needs repeating, that the fundamental structure of the acts are a downgrade to the straightforward mission structure of Alerts.
Alerts had potential to be made more story-driven, by giving more context, like the pirate radio intercepting a distress call, finding intel of the whereabouts of high value targets, all of these tie together with Capture, Rescue, Sabotage, Spy etc etc mission types.
There's massive narrative dissonance with why Nora cares and rewards standing to you for collecting mods, slotting statues, scanning objects, killing x enemies with fire, doing a sortie with a buddy-- Why is this important to learn more about an escaped prisoner? And it feels so menial, arduous, shallow, insignificant.
And it's unrewarding, a promise of learning more, a promise of earning more (if you keep working on it and don't take too long breaks!), nothing happening for weeks.
Again Alerts just rewarded more straightforwardly, and missing one didn't elicit that FOMO because they had less stakes, but here, with the season aspect of Nightwave, it being there constantly reminding you with it's fleeting nature, puts manipulative pressure on a player.
Alerts needed work but they had promise, I don't know how these house chores can be made more impressive.
Only thing I can think of is.
1) Remove time limit of 10-ish weeks, make it a thing everyone works through in their own pace.
2) Reward creds with each act completed and not on only every few tiers.
3) Just, get alerts back to complement this.
4) Nora shouldn't be so blatant about her not telling us anything, holding out on us, and toying with us with these checklists that are so removed from any narrative significance for weeks.

Bonus ideas:
Nightwave should be like a Plague star bounty like multi stage structure of finding clues, hunting around the solar system for convicts, getting clues to their whereabouts, getting from them pieces of a puzzle to how to bring the Wolf out, maybe have initial fight with him, he runs away -

  Reveal hidden contents

like Excal Umbra did

  - And we keep fighting him until we defeat him at the end of our series long stages up our tiers. Payoff for story.

 

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