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[DE]Rebecca

Nightwave: Series 1

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Ok... well, uh. It is nice to get new content, but I have kinda negative feeling about the implementation. I'm glad DE is really reading the posts, though, as that means some changes might be done in the future (for better or worse 🙂 ). 

1) Please, do not force co-op missions on us. Blizzard also did this for some special content and I hated it then, and I hate it now. I don't see the point of trying to find someone in LFG channel to friend with just for one act. I have a solo guild and I play exclusively solo or in pugs. I have now over 1700 hours in the game, and I still do not want to add friends or have clan members. The clause "with clan members or friends" should not be required, ever. I might be ok with "in a group", though, if you want to force non-solo content, although I don't see why you would want to force that either.

2) No alerts is really bad for some things. Yeah, the credit alerts needed to go, but I was still using some alerts for getting, for example, argon crystals etc. Especially the potatoes were much easier to get previously. Now they need 60k rep for one. The official android app alerted me for nitains and potatoes and I was able to get most of them if I so wanted. Now I need to grind a lot of things to get the same that I previously got via one mission.

3) My sons just started playing, both are MR 2 I recall. I was thinking alerts would be possible way to get them some nitains and potatoes somewhat reasonably, as long as one popped up when we were available. Yeah, its random, but really, now it feels just impossible task to get them even one. Previously, I would have had to carry them through one mission. Now I would need to carry them through 60k worth of rep for one potato. 

4) 9 invasions... ehh. 3 captures is ok for 3k and similarly, it should be 3 invasion missions, no more. Max 3 missions of any kind. Same thing with Cetus bounties, 3 bounties for 3k, that is the max amount of missions should be 3 per 3k. If you are ok with 3 captures for 3k, then everything else takes already longer anyways. 

5) For ayatan sculptures, I'm not sure how often this will come up, but I would say max "Fill two" for 3k. That way you can get them from the weekly and use them every 2nd week. The option is buying them for plat, which I hope is not the point of the acts.

6) For bosses, I would think just killing any boss, not just hydrolyst, should be enough. 

7) Cephalon simaris scans? I already have everything from him.... these are just aggravating things. The whole mission specific mob scanning is useless anyways, as just stealth scanning whole extermination mission is way better and faster. Please do not force already bad content on us. (I assume that just scanning any 5 mobs in any mission is not enough for this act.)

8 ) The most important one: HOW LONG will this go on? Should I grind my hair out right from the beginning to get that umbra polarity, or can I skip the dumbest missions and still have a chance? If this is 7-8 weeks, we need every single act done every day/week and probably burn out on the first Nightwave series, while if this goes for 4 months, we can skip half the stuff and proceed with less stress. At the moment the only way to do this is "Grind your hair out" until we find out how long this event is planned to go on. Because having like 285k rep when the event ends would be slightly aggravating...

 

In general, while the rewards are great and the system itself seems cool, removing the best alerts and making them require a lot of grind maybe was not the best choice for lower OR higher level players, as long as we have things like the official app alerting us and thus removing the randomness somewhat. The Acts need to lower some of the requirements. Some are ok already, but 5 ayatans a week or 9 invasions are not cool, while 3 captures are fine and dandy.

I would love this as an additional way to earn stuff, while just playing the game normally. But with the strict time limit and now being the only way to get potatoes and nitains and having excellent rewards, it feels like a chore straight from the start. 

Thanks.

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"yeah there is leeway - we are aiming for around 10 weeks" - @rebbford

That's 430,000, so we can miss 13,000 weekly and be fine

While that's much better than first expected, I still think these changes will make things significantly better:
I. Sculptures; make it ONE, given we can get that from Maroo. Otherwise we rely on RNG (or platinum) to get one

II. Make it ANY PoE / OV boss, as Hydro is just not a sensible request, given it means doing two others first 

III. I don't mind the "sortie with a friend", but as silly as it may sound - could change it to be using a kubrow/kavat and make it more approacable, as I think the moment you have Nightwave rely on others than yourself, you're moving into dangerous territory

My #1 piece of feedback; NEVER have a Nightwave task rely on RNG or others

RNG explains itself, but others; I mean things like "revive x allies", "play a squad with x, y and z frames in it", "do x with [specific] other ally", etc

I think it's a great idea to change alerts, but I fear this will become like the Quills; absolutely frustrating to rank up, and who knows if one week the tasks are in such a way you can't do most of the elite, due to x, y and z - which could result in weeks/months of grind for just to get 299,000 standing

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1 minute ago, PETI258 said:

Are the cosmetic/mod rewards we can unlock from 0-30 will return or they will be limited to this event only?
(I saw it was exclusive but I don't think mods should be part of it as for cosmetics it's fine)

36k/weekly + 1k/daily ~ we need around 7 weeks to complete it with only weekly/daily "alerts". How long we have to finish and can we get more then 50/cap target or they have a fixed spawn somewhere?

Wolf Cred at the end. Can we not lose it just trade it for credits with a x0.5-0.8 as it would normally resulted by selling yourself in time?
(someone may just forget it to redeem the stuff at least give that player something back)

Timed, certainly, since they're specific to the episode, the cosmetics at least, don't think the mods would be.

Who needs credits in Warframe? Heck, there'll be a double credit weekend in a few weeks, just get a credit booster for the weekend, and you'll be getting 1 mil per index run. Why would you want the 100 credits or so that you'd get from converting wolf credits at .5x, even at 50x selling the whole 300 you get at max rank won't be more than an average mission. Those wolf credits should be renamed and made permanent. Impermanent rewards are just plain bad. Look at Argon Crystals, always the same pain in the backside.

What's more ridiculous about this whole thing is that we were promised a narrative... I got an intro so far.

 

 

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I just got my 1st level with Nightwave and I'm done.

There is no point, I play Warframe to have fun, I already have a job I don't need another one.

 

If I can't get anything I need or want without doing these awful dailies and weeklies (fill 5 sculptures? Hydrolist hunt? 9 invasions? 8 bounties in PoE!?) there is no point, I can't begin to imagine how new players feel right now, I know I would have quit.

 

This "update" on Alerts effectively removed potatoes, nitain and mods for them, please rethink the rewards, they should be easily doable while doing other missions right now I would need to invest all my playing time on Nitghwave and nothing else and if that's what you want from this: an endless event grind, I think I need to find a new game...

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Wait, so 10 weeks? what's that about prestige-ing the thing? for 13 more ranks or so of rewards? Not even 2 formbra per "episode" huh...

I really want the cosmetic armor, being a collector myself, but honestly I have a backlog of rpgs I'd rather play than this tired old concept. Honestly, if I can't brute-force farm it, buy it from the market, or do it in an acceptable amount of time, it's just a p.i.t.a.

Edited by Aerionoth
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14 minutes ago, Dthamilaye said:

6) For bosses, I would think just killing any boss, not just hydrolyst, should be enough. 

 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

II. Make it ANY PoE / OV boss, as Hydro is just not a sensible request, given it means doing two others first 

Come on guys, this is the weekly elite nightwave. It's meant to be more of a challenge. In fact out of the 3 elite nightwaves we have, this is the only one that is even challenging at all. The other two are pretty mundane. Doing a sortie with a friend might be inconvenient to people who have zero friends and are a solo clan, but it's not actually difficult in terms of the challenge. 

As long as you can skip some missions here and there that you don't enjoy and still have enough points to get to rank 30 (which I'm pretty sure will be the case, since DE can adjust how long the episode lasts as they see fit), then there's really no reason for concern at all. Personally I'll probably skip a few as well that I don't enjoy and/or don't want to bother with. 

I'll give more feedback later as I play more through these and rank up more. 

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My friends don't play this game anymore, so I can't do the last challenge 😧
I'll have to get friends, or someone to play sorties with

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ok after i checked it and saw "how it works" i already think this is a way to big "change" of the gameplay and pretty much subjects the already "known nickname" the game Warframe has - which is "Farmframe".

 

As i have to quote from the main post, what was good in the old system:

"- A quick and easy way to discover and complete unlocked nodes in the Solar Map, earn Credits, Weapon Blueprints, Mods, and more to build up your inventory (primarily new player driven). 

- A quick and easy way to play Warframe. Hop in and out of missions when you are short on time (anyone)."

 

I play warframe over 1200 hours, nearly 1300 at this moment, and yes, what i liked about the system was you can jump into the game and play some rounds. Sure if you missed an alert, you might have to wait for another one or just had the bad luck about timing, which i can see and understand about the new system.

 

The problem here is, we are more or less forced to do missions and stuff we might dont enjoy over all wile in the old system, all we had to do was one.simple.mission.

Right now, you have to do is to get at least to rank 3 (IF i remember right) to get ANY "currency" for and from this new alert setting.

Today i made it to rank 1 and if i sure "wanted" i could at least jumped up to rank 2 - which feels more or less forced.

In the negatives of the old system, it was written:

"What the current system lacks: 

  • Reliability: Missing a time limited mission with an Alert-only reward means waiting for it to rotate back into the live Alerts, at which time you may not be available (work, school, walking the dog, sleep, you know, the important stuff!). "

Most important is for me the last part in the (). Look, if you want "just" a umbra forma, you have to be pretty much online nonestop to get this stuff, which seems pretty much antiproductive if you try to bring reliability into this system. A person who HAS a good "RL" and is busy half down the way has also sure not the time to rank up this high in that kind of system, which pretty much nullefies this argument of adding reliability into it if you also think about, if the "event" is over, all ranks and currency are lost and cutted back to zero - which pretty much means even if you were close to get the stuff you wanted, all your effort you did is now worth nothing.

Im srs here to say that the system feels like its now actually forcing the player to do something they dont like maybe and that you actually have to play the game way to much to farm for the stuff you want. It already is bad for a game which has said nickname to add another farming system which feels already close to another system they created only to think they added reliability which they sure didnt. they actually want you to play their game but then, they should give us at least the opportunity to keep hold of our efforts we do and try to get a item we want and not set them back to zero, pretty much losing all progress we did over weeks maybe to get there - Else i dont see a good future for this system if all we do is set back to zero.

Sure, they can be different "rewards" you can get for the different event times but they should all use the same "currency" and exp for those new alert system and not "event" wise rangs and different currency - pretty much like with Endo to mod every mod you want no matter what rarety the mod is.

 

SO what WOULD i change?

- First, let us get "some" currency with every rank up, no matter what or which rank. If you want to add "that" reliability, not everyone of us has the time to rank up 3 ranks a week or like. Another idea WOULD be that we get some currency for each kind of mission we do, depending how "hard" it is we get more or less of it.

- Let us KEEP the currency and rank even after said "events" and dont change it, at least IF it helps us getting nearly impossible stuff like a umbra forma - so that it doesnt feel like our efforts are "worth" something and doesnt end up in limbo, literally.

 

All i can add here at this moment at this state of the system, thinking already about the market and prices right now, it will be nearly impossible to get nor buy a umbra forma alone...IF someone really WOULD sell it anyways.

Its not creating reliability, its creating dependency.

 

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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A simple Orokin Reactor calculation:
 

Reactor for 38 warframes (primes and frames with no primes) = 38 * 75 Wolf cred = 2850 Wolf cred.
At rate of 50 Wolf cred / week, 57 weeks.

Reactor for 21 pets (prime/prisma and pets with no primes) = 21 * 75 Wolf cred = 1575 Wolf cred.
At rate of 50 Wolf cred / week, 31,5 weeks.

Reactor for 4 archwings (primes and aw with no primes = 4 * 75 Wolf cred = 300 Wolf cred.
At rate of 50 Wolf cred / week, 6 weeks.

Reactor for 3 K-drives = 3 * 75 Wolf cred = 225 Wolf cred.
At rate of 50 Wolf cred / week, 4,5 weeks.

Total time to potato all: 99 weeks = 1,9 years.


Now, there are only 66 things requiring Reactors. There are hundreds of weapons.
The amount of Wolf creds needed for Catalysts will far outweigh this.

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14 minutes ago, Drivrius said:

new players

my main takeaway from all of this is that new players need no longer apply. more and more content is being put behind walls and with this being a time limited event it puts a stress on them that... is very chinese f2p, to be honest. And I do not think this will work in DE's favor long term.

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7 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

Come on guys, this is the weekly elite nightwave. It's meant to be more of a challenge. In fact out of the 3 elite nightwaves we have, this is the only one that is even challenging at all. 

It's not really the challenge itself, it's how it relies on others

Maybe you and others are good enough to solo three eidolons in a night, but in general it'll end in a PUG for most of us and at least on PS4, the "PUG community" is frustrating to say the least

Since I started in June, I have only noticed random groups have gotten worse in terms of quitting, AFK, etc. If I play the game duo with a friend; might be one of my favourite games of all times.

Whenever I've to deal with a single round of randoms? Worst game, simply because of how awful the community can be (when Mesa just got primed, it was impossible to do fissures without an 1-2 people quitting EVERY time, to be replaced and have another quit.

I assume it's better on PC, I don't know - but if Nightwave means I've to rely on an awful community in order to get the syandana and armour? Well, no thanks. Too many good games out already/coming out soon, to deal with this.

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Why did you introduce a seasonal or battle pass type system without telling us how long it lasts? How am I supposed to know whether I have a month or half a year to complete all the goals. Also why are the elite missions so heavily weighted and lopsided against new or casual players? I understand that you want to reward people for more difficult content but beating a hydrolist isn't something I want to do. You need a certain build have to follow the "meta" to get in a group and is only available at certain times due to the day/night cycle. How is that an improvement upon the old alert system? Is it going to be possible to reach the max tier of rewards by not doing some of the elite weeklies?  How am I supposed to know what missions I can skip or not or how much I have to do per week to hit my goals? The whole thing was implemented with such a lack of information it astounds me. Also once I beat the weeklies then what am I supposed to do? It is possible to complete all of the missions in a day so then unlike alerts there is no incentive to do anything the rest of the week. 

Overall this entire thing just seems like a big "why?". Why was this system implemented and the old one removed. If it was some sort of financial decision or attempt to increase player retention at least be transparent about it. I don't think this is better for new or casual players I don't even know if it is better for veteran players. Before I could be happily surprised by an alert get some nitain or maybe even a random reactor or something now I have to grind currency to buy those things that I couldn't previously. I mean it would be nice but for new players they are gonna be forced to choose between spending this new currency on some materials they could have previously got in one mission or an alternate helmet they really want. It just doesn't seem like the time investment is any improvement when you could get more from random alerts in a few hours of playing than you can get in a few weeks of playing under these new systems. 

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this might be the grindiest thing you've ever released into this game. it's gonna ruin the game for a lot of people. there's no way anyone with a job or just other things to do could ever complete this monstrosity.

just about everything you use to be able to get from alerts is now harder to get by several orders of magnitude. its no longer "pop on and do a 2-10 minute long mission to get the thing you want" its "grind for hours on end" this change is going to see a lot of players outright drop out of playing the game entirely because they just can't do these things

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1 minute ago, PollexMessier said:

just about everything you use to be able to get from alerts is now harder to get by several orders of magnitude.

but you have choice now. isn't that nice? so when you have played 4 weeks to get one pack of Nitain you can now feel a sense of Pride and Accomplishment(tm) 😛

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5 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

this might be the grindiest thing you've ever released into this game. it's gonna ruin the game for a lot of people. there's no way anyone with a job or just other things to do could ever complete this monstrosity.

just about everything you use to be able to get from alerts is now harder to get by several orders of magnitude. its no longer "pop on and do a 2-10 minute long mission to get the thing you want" its "grind for hours on end" this change is going to see a lot of players outright drop out of playing the game entirely because they just can't do these things

finally, someone else got it.

4 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

but you have choice now. isn't that nice? so when you have played 4 weeks to get one pack of Nitain you can now feel a sense of Pride and Accomplishment(tm) 😛

Not if you still dont have the time and cant get to that what you want in time of the event which pretty much puts back ALL your effort to zero after the time of the event is over, making all effort you did look like you did nothing, losing collected currency AND rank.

Edited by Leon-Darkheart
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So now something I could earn in a few minutes like Nitain is going to take me days/hours? already done six missions on incursions that I have no interest in playing as I can just make fieldron/detonite and I haven't made a single wolf cred, even killed that silly prisoner guy I got some crap mod I already had. Yeah good work DE good work indeed. I had a feeling this was going to be a method of introducing a bigger grind and making items harder to aquire and congrats you've done a splendid job at that.

Why not actually make this fun and just have tier unlocks like in the rest of the syndicates and let us purchase it all with normal credits? Yes that means we'd have all the potatoes we want but hey that might actually be fun!

Same with the cosmetics, yes we get to pick the one we want but those helmets where something we could get in under 5 minutes! Same with the odd potato that came up on alert.

Oh and didn't someone say we were going to be able to buy slots?

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2 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

... Im srs here to say that the system feels like its now actually forcing the player to do something they dont like maybe and that you actually have to play the game way to much to farm for the stuff you want.

Sadly, this is probably the biggest thing I do not like about the new system. I liked that WF did not have any _constant_ forced grind that I had to do every day. Yes, there were lots of grinds, like getting focus or wisps or Vox Solaris standing. However, you could concentrate on that and then you were done with that grind and could take it easy until next WF or whatever came up.

At least for now, I feel like instead of doing mostly what I want in an evening, or concentrating on some grind, I will now need to always go and check what Acts I have not finished for the day/week and try to do those. Maybe it will not be that bad, but I really think that I won't be following this at series 2 or forwards. Ie. this is a grind that WILL NOT GO AWAY. It will be there every week for forever from now and the rewards are so good that at least I feel forced to do it. Yes, it feels awful to complain about excellent rewards, but as it requires weekly chores that are assigned by DE instead of myself, I need to whine about it ><. 

If this worked like Diablo seasons where you grind full time for a weekend or two (or a week for ~4 hours per evening) and then you are done until next one appears in 3 months, then no problems. That would be cool. But having the grind now every week and continue until forever just doesn't feel that elating. Maybe if the requirements are lowered somewhat, they can be more easily done "on the side". 

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The system in concept is great but the execution leaves a lot to be fixed.  

First, there needs to be at least DOUBLE the number of ways to gain rep, especially for solo players. 

Second, I shouldn't have to rep my way past a noggle I don't care about to get another 50 cred I need to buy the item I'm working for.  That entire top tier system is messed up.  I agree with needing higher rep for higher rewards, but I should be able to CHOOSE my reward, not have to cycle through the damn things having to earn 10k or more rep each time for an item I neither want/need.  This system FORCES us to go through dozens of missions to earn rep just to cycle through to the tier reward we WANT.  At least with the old alert system, I could CHOOSE when I wanted to go on a mission to get a specific reward.  The new system FORCES me into dozens of missions in order to gain enough rep to cycle through to the tier reward I actually want. 

Here's the way I think the Tier system SHOULD work.  At each Tier, there would be a set of say 4 items for me to choose from.  WIth higher rewards still requiring a higher tier. But at Tier 3 or 4 I should be able to choose from 3 Forma, 50 cred, 20k Kuva or a Noggle. 

Edited by Zeoran
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Ok.

 

Second spot of feedback.

 

DE, ten weeks is doable...but let's revisit the math for two seconds. There's about 43,000 Nightwave Standing available per week*. Assume that for whatever reason, a player might find themselves locked out of one Elite task and one standard weekly task, that's 8,000 gone, dropping us to 35,000. Assuming that you manage to log in and do the daily task literally every single day too.

That's still taking eight to nine weeks. 

 

A player who runs into any kind of real world issues during that time requiring them to not play for a couple of days, or who is gone away for a weekend suddenly forfeits that week of buffer. 

 

* Do not try to insist that grinding Escaped Convicts can make up for it. They're a random occurrence, they're worth basically no Standing, and they're currently bugged so that the last one to fall cannot be captured. The Wolf himself is entertaining for about five minutes, and then he's just a bullet sponge who is worth nothing. Why is a kill on the Wolf worth less than capturing one convict? In fact, why is a kill on the Wolf worthless?

 

 

 

Lads.

 

Come off it.

 

This system is basically a significant grind disguised as a fun new Syndicate, and the disguise failed immediately because we can actually see the numbers and do the math.

 

What the hell are you playing at?

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I just hope new weapons, sentinels and frames won't ever need Nitain to forge ever again, because a week of tedious farming is going to be needed unless you have a niece stash already.

 

I have only 8, I should have farmed more when it wasn't a PITA, oh well hindsight is always 20?20 I guess.

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For the weekly missions you have completed that move to the bottom with a check mark on them, the colors between the two should be different, it would help separate them.

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