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Sean

DE Responses, Forums, and Reddit

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If anyone has been around for a while, they'll notice a couple things...

  1. DE seldom responds to feedback on the official forums
    • Even if it is something that desperately needs an employee response, like this one by @[DE]Rebecca)
    • Just scrolling through "Latest Staff Replies", all posts are either PR-ey news or something to do with a game update
  2. They tend to favor the subreddit for anything that even remotely looks like a response

 

There have been numerous times where I've heard of "DE made this statement on this subject over on the subreddit!" and I'm left going "But they chose to not use their official forums for this?" It's an odd thing for them to do as these are the "official" forums, right?

Why have open discussions on something (especially like the topic linked above) if no discussion will be had with any of the employees? Otherwise topics such as that will just run around in circles as they await for something to actually be said. Even in topics created by an employee, that employee will then choose to not respond to anyone throughout that topic.

 

Now with the subreddit, while they are still a part of the overall community, there needs to be a balance on what is said. If something is stated on one platform, and if relevant, it should be said on the other one as well. Both sides of the community are beneficial to Warframe and so both are valid, but opting to not respond to feedback or questions on "Official Forums" for any of the larger issues (especially if the conversation was started by DE) is not the right move.

Why even have these forums at all if they are just to be ignored by the staff when it comes to something a bit more "hard-hitting"? Especially in the current WF climate, blatantly casting aside entire swathes of the community when it comes to the major areas with issues only exacerbates things.

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Yeah I've always questioned the 'preference' to use other sources than their official forum... I've said it before and I'll say it again, it would be nice for DE to be more active in their own forums instead of reddit and twitter..

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2 minutes ago, Sean said:

They tend to favor the subreddit for anything that even remotely looks like a response

Or Twitter.

2 minutes ago, Sean said:

There have been numerous times where I've heard of "DE made this statement on this subject over on the subreddit!" and I'm left going "But they chose to not use their official forums for this?"

I've voiced my own issues with this amongst friends, but yeah, I really dislike the whole situation. 

I guess one of the biggest examples I can think of is Steve's tweets showing off work in progress stuff... Why is that not on the forums? Why is it left up to other people to have to create threads for it?

I'm sure many would love to see Steve creating his own personal WIP threads where he can show it all off, update it over time and we can discuss it right there. I mean, I don't know much about Twitter but it looks like the last place to have an effective discussion.

The longer I've been here, the more I've felt that the forums are ultimately pointless due to a lack of interest on DE's part. We got a specific feedback section for Garuda, but why not Baruuk? Fortuna had one, but is Nightwave also not deserving of one? Why was the idea dropped, when surely from DE's perspective it's a massive plus to have the layout like that, instead of the mess that the feedback sections (and General Discussion) can sometimes be?

Why, despite having it pointed out several times, do we still not have enough moderators to handle the ever increasing number of forum users? Why, despite being aware of the fact that the "What is and isn't General Discussion" announcement still exists, has it not been re implemented? No one can accurately estimate how helpful it is in directing people to the appropriate sections, but there's literally no harm in adding it back. Maybe 10 minutes of work to edit it based on the current forum layout and job's a goodun.

I'm sure they read the forums, but I don't personally believe it's a priority for them, and if it is... I wish it were treated as such.

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17 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Or Twitter.

I've voiced my own issues with this amongst friends, but yeah, I really dislike the whole situation. 

I guess one of the biggest examples I can think of is Steve's tweets showing off work in progress stuff... Why is that not on the forums? Why is it left up to other people to have to create threads for it?

I'm sure many would love to see Steve creating his own personal WIP threads where he can show it all off, update it over time and we can discuss it right there. I mean, I don't know much about Twitter but it looks like the last place to have an effective discussion.

The longer I've been here, the more I've felt that the forums are ultimately pointless due to a lack of interest on DE's part. We got a specific feedback section for Garuda, but why not Baruuk? Fortuna had one, but is Nightwave also not deserving of one? Why was the idea dropped, when surely from DE's perspective it's a massive plus to have the layout like that, instead of the mess that the feedback sections (and General Discussion) can sometimes be?

Why, despite having it pointed out several times, do we still not have enough moderators to handle the ever increasing number of forum users? Why, despite being aware of the fact that the "What is and isn't General Discussion" announcement still exists, has it not been re implemented? No one can accurately estimate how helpful it is in directing people to the appropriate sections, but there's literally no harm in adding it back. Maybe 10 minutes of work to edit it based on the current forum layout and job's a goodun.

I'm sure they read the forums, but I don't personally believe it's a priority for them, and if it is... I wish it were treated as such.

 

Yeah, very true.

Twitter is relied on, imo, too much for the topics they push out on that platform.

@[DE]Steve's WIP builds and other major subjects need to be in a better area, and the official forums would fit that perfectly.

 

The forums themselves are still a mess, so many areas only started on then left and forgotten about for at least a year (Both the Dark and Normal Themes, Clans, Forum Structure, Organization, Active Moderators... even the forum's copyright date is still 2015) and it all just leaves the feeling that DE gave up on the official forums a long time ago.

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

If anyone has been around for a while, they'll notice a couple things...

  1. DE seldom responds to feedback on the official forums

From how it was explained to me, places other than the WF forums are less "official". 

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Just now, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

From how it was explained to me, places other than the WF forums are less "official". 

 

The Reddit isn't an "official forum" as it is not something made by DE.

These forums that we are on now would be "official", and the main issue is that DE only really goes here to post PR and Game Update content.

There's only one guy that I've seen throughout the entire "Latest Staff Replies" who consistently responds to bug reports that aren't just tied to whatever the latest update is (kudos to him, btw).

 

So while something can be "less official", it still doesn't actually make it "official", and feedback should be treated evenly across all platforms.

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I don't really approve of a company communicating important information through informal means.

I understand the need to be present in social media. Especially a free2play game but communication through these mediums should always point back to official channels ie, Patch notes and Warframe's official Forum. This has always irked me about DE's communication practice. Aside from omitting changes from patch notes.

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On 2019-02-28 at 7:47 PM, Sean said:

 

The Reddit isn't an "official forum" as it is not something made by DE.

These forums that we are on now would be "official", and the main issue is that DE only really goes here to post PR and Game Update content.

There's only one guy that I've seen throughout the entire "Latest Staff Replies" who consistently responds to bug reports that aren't just tied to whatever the latest update is (kudos to him, btw).

 

So while something can be "less official", it still doesn't actually make it "official", and feedback should be treated evenly across all platforms.

I agree. No argument from me. But that's just how it was explained to me. 

I've even went on Steve's twitter multiple times telling him to post the stuff he posts on the forums too. 

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Maybe they should have a section of the forum just showing their brainstorming and have it marked as such, even if players could see but not post there.   And for non official responses, mark them as such if you need to.  I don't use reddit.   I don't use twitter, or any other social media really beyond a few forums that are based on a specific interest.    Having to wiki stuff for game information, while I don't agree I can accept.   But having to search social media and other forums besides their own forum for information about their game seems a bit off to me.  Post on your own forum before you do on other sources....

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The forums are the epitome of "preaching to the choir".

Nobody is going to go to a game's forums to look at some neat new rendering engine tech and oops, something in that video makes them want to play the game. They will, however, scroll through twitter and someone might retweet or like Steve's videos and be exposed to it without having to go to a specific place for it.

Like it or not, the subreddit is probably the biggest source of edrama. Various factions on there make any sort of "#*!% The Man" narrative stick, warranted or not. It is one of the most popular websites, for better or worse, and for lots of things makes a better platform than the strict threads of a forum.

The solution, that is literally impossible, would be to shut down the Warframe subreddit. Cut to microseconds later and the new one is up and has a grudge and the free speech warriors now have a narrative to beat.

It's not that they don't like the forums. Everyone on the internet likes their places better. Posting to the forum gains 0 new eyes and 0 potential new players.

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4 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Posting to the forum gains 0 new eyes and 0 potential new players.

True, but not posting on the forums only leads to the impression that you don't care about or listen to your players.

DE is not the only developer with this issue: Bungie does it as well. In fact, most devs seem to have a bigger 'official' presence on Facebook, Twitter and Reddit than on their own forums. Facebook and Twitter somewhat makes sense, much as I loathe the platforms: people have their phones on them 24/7 so they'll get a beep when DE posts something. instant notification. Or, as you said, when a friend or friend's friend shares/retweets something from DE. Reddit.... I dont know why studios favor it over a structured forum, but then I dont really understand the Reddit format in general and I avoid it, so I'm probably missing something.

From my experience here and on Bungie's forum it seems that forums exist more to give the players a place to congregate and discuss the game rather than to provide an outlet for the devs to talk to the community. But, Reddit serves the same purpose and the devs actually do talk over there apparently. What's incredibly bizzare to me though is that they favor a forum where they have no official control. On Reddit people can say or do anything, be as toxic as they desire, and there's nothing DE can do about it. Here at least DE can moderate and minimize the bad actors because they own the place. Anymore though I dont really understand why studios bother to maintain their own discussion boards at all when they make very little use of them. Heck, during the height of the Destiny 2 hate their forums were so toxic Bungie threatened to shut them down entirely. The number 1 reason for the toxicity as related by the players? No dev communication. Players were saying "we shouldn't have to go to facebook, or twitter, or reddit for information. These are your boards: use them." Just as there are people who prefer to get their info via Facebook/Twitter/Reddit, there are those of us who prefer the more organized format of a proper discussion board.

I'm not saying that DE should stop using Twitter/Facebook/Reddit: that'd be foolish. You obviously want the widest possible presence you can get. I'm just suggesting they not forego their own official forums. The only time I have ever seen an official DE post here is in patch notes for a new release, and on occasion in feedback like when we got the bait blueprints changed shortly after PoE launched. Players dont want to talk at the devs; we want to talk with them. But you cant have a dialogue when one side wont respond.

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15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The forums are the epitome of "preaching to the choir".

Nobody is going to go to a game's forums to look at some neat new rendering engine tech and oops, something in that video makes them want to play the game. They will, however, scroll through twitter and someone might retweet or like Steve's videos and be exposed to it without having to go to a specific place for it.

I think if things were mirrored to the Forums, that would be a big improvement. People who play the game and are invested in it certainly want to see the shiny new things Steve's working on. Why would the script memory stuff Steve posted last week draw anyone into the game? If, as @DeMonkey suggested, Steve had his own section on the Forums to show off his stuff, it would reach all the players here who don't have Twitter.

Not all DE's messaging on Twitter and Reddit is designed to draw in new players. When Rebecca or Megan post in the subreddit to talk about the moderator drama, wouldn't it make sense to also have those words here so we could all be on the same page without having to go to 3 or more different websites?

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1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Nobody is going to go to a game's forums to look at some neat new rendering engine tech and oops, something in that video makes them want to play the game. They will, however, scroll through twitter and someone might retweet or like Steve's videos and be exposed to it without having to go to a specific place for it.

 

Heh, you mean those videos showing off the new rendering tech with a 480p quality video?

(Click here for better quality version and additional information)

See, it's easy to do both. It's not the use but more the omission.

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5 hours ago, peterc3 said:

It's not that they don't like the forums. Everyone on the internet likes their places better. Posting to the forum gains 0 new eyes and 0 potential new players.

It would help retain old ones.   And keep casual players more informed.  

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Yes, I also do not understand why this forum is needed. DE don’t read it, they don’t answer NO ONE question here (“white knights” do it for them), they don’t publish relevant information here. Or published very rarely.
I saw the feedback only on reddit, just the other day one of the developers answered questions there. Or on Twitter, yes.
This forum is the official resource of the game. Official. 
Yes, Reddit is a popular resource, but it is NOT dedicated to Warframe. He is dedicated to everything in the world. Such a hodgepodge.
What a strange situation. We must search for all information on the game on third-party resources - an unofficial (!) wiki and streamers on a you-tube. Questions and feedback we have to give, it turns out, also on third-party resources - reddit and twitter. 
That is, ALL information relating to the game is located at other sites. Any, except the official)
I do not understand this.

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Completely agree It really feels like a place DE made for the player-base to talk just for the sake of talking, a "sink" even.  A lot of the threads I've seen here were some very well written and sincere feedbacks, many even take the discussion further in replies, and even going back week later editing and rewriting, only to be buried (as this one will too), and the game moves on.

And I feel like I should have some answer at the end of this but I really don't, this place has always been a one sided conversation, and its hard to solve anything this way.

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Would be nice if someday DE actually uses their forums to post status updates and engage with the community.

Fracturing everything up between numerous different places is just counter-productive.

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16 minutes ago, Sean said:

Would be nice if someday DE actually uses their forums to post status updates and engage with the community.

Fracturing everything up between numerous different places is just counter-productive.

Agreed. Especially because there is a direct link to the official wf forums from our Orbiters. When in reality we need links to everyone's Twitter feed and r/Warframe too lol. 

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14 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

When in reality we need links to everyone's Twitter feed and r/Warframe too lol. 

Should probably throw Instagram in there as well, for good measure.

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Not responding doesnt nessessarily mean DE doesnt read the Forums but seeing as some important bugs don't even get acknowlegded like melee momentum that has been broken since Chimera really makes me question the usefulness of it.

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9 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Not responding doesnt nessessarily mean DE doesnt read the Forums but seeing as some important bugs don't even get acknowlegded like melee momentum that has been broken since Chimera really makes me question the usefulness of it.

 

True, though some topics such as the one linked above and the other one of its type by @[DE]Bear or any of the forum "update" topics by @[DE]Drew & @[DE]Danielle all need to have a proper discussion within those topics by the employees that made them. Nothing can move forward on any issues if the issues are never even acknowledged.

 

Bug Reports though really need more employees to post in them, though the forum dedicated to audio issues is handled excellently.

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