Orokin Catalyst/reactor Should Charge Credits As Well?

[WinterKnight]

The "pay for convience" argument doesn't really work here. It's a straight pay for power as you are statistically inferior without them. Orokin nonsense gives straight stat buff and is nigh impossible to get for free.

I got an Orokin Catalyst BP from my 3rd ? mission, so rare, yes, but hardly "impossible". That plus the possibility of getting them from the login rewards seems like giving a relatively good shot at getting one for free at some point.

I would however support a free (as in buying with credits) option, but the price would indeed need to be pretty steep (probably to the point of making it worthless to add the credit option) to maintain the devs need to sell them for actual cash. Sure it is pay for power (what a stupid phrase in a co-op game), but those are the realities of F2P gaming, the devs and their families need to eat outweigh your feelings of being "statistically inferior".

[Nocturni]

How about instead of a random ? alert that could easily be missed, you get to pick when to use your "chance" to get either a reactor or catalyst. Maybe you can do these missions once every 1-2 weeks?

[Auronaku]

How about instead of a random ? alert that could easily be missed, you get to pick when to use your "chance" to get either a reactor or catalyst. Maybe you can do these missions once every 1-2 weeks?

1-2 weeks would be too often for such a prized item, we're trying to balance between "Too low and the devs won't make money" and "So high, it's not even worth trying for credit"

The scale should be tipped more to high, so if it we're like an allowance of choosing between Catalysts/Reactos, it'd have to be something like monthly or even longer.

[Cawkslapjones]

I'm still far more concerned about the limitation of frame/weapon slots. At least there IS a way to get orokin stuff (dailies have tossed me one of each) but there's absolutely no way to get more frames/weapons. Get something to 30, then have to sell it when you want to see what another one is like. Just plain silly.

[Nocturni]

1-2 weeks would be too often for such a prized item, we're trying to balance between "Too low and the devs won't make money" and "So high, it's not even worth trying for credit"

The scale should be tipped more to high, so if it we're like an allowance of choosing between Catalysts/Reactos, it'd have to be something like monthly or even longer.

They cost 20 platinum to buy, while some weapons are past the 200 platinum mark which can easily be crafted in one day. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

The only reason I think it should be a little more easily attainable is because these are very important base-gameplay items - you're practically locked out of your gear unless you have them, and if you don't have the fortune to be on while there's an alert for them (which come on more than once a week as it is now, mind you, this would only grant you a surefire chance since you pick when to play it while also keeping you from getting 5 in a week from being on 24/7), then you're out of free-to-play options. Seeing as it is only 20 platinum, they probably figure people won't mind just paying for them which, more often than not, might be the case. But if you're going through gear like crazy and trying to experiment, you're going to get tired of spending money on the things and it'll start to feel like a monthly fee.

I mean, if they separated the orokin rewards from the rest of the alert rewards and used this idea, people who are on 24/7 and the people who only play on the weekends will get the same amount of catalysts/reactors. I see this as a double win.

Tl;dr what I'm proposing does nothing more than take how the current alerts work, and making them work with your schedule in the case of orokin catalysts/reactors.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Nocturni

[Mak_Gohae]

If the devs really need money badly, why don't they just make a kickstarter for it? I'd rather fund them with that then buying power ingame which is something I don't agree with.

If they need funds to make the content I'd like to pay for down the line, then that fine. But being forced to pay for full access to a weapon is silly. Having another way to get reactors other than the very rare alerts would be great, no matter what the decided upon price in credits.

They are trying to fund their game to last as long as possible, kickstarter doesnt help with that.

And it's not like you cant clear content without them.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[G3rman]

I can earn 300k credits with just a few runs at Xini. This would be way too easy to abuse.

If you want these objects, the entire system needs to be redone rather than give a credit cost.

[TheChaffeemancer]

I got an Orokin Catalyst BP from my 3rd ? mission, so rare, yes, but hardly "impossible". That plus the possibility of getting them from the login rewards seems like giving a relatively good shot at getting one for free at some point.

"I got lucky once, that means your point is invalid."

Alerts are entirely dependant on luck, you have to be lucky enough for it to be a time where you are on your computer, not engaged in some other task, and have it be on a mission you unlocked, and log-on reward is a roulette with a daily Lord knows what chance of getting it. You also missed the "nigh" part of "nigh impossibe." If you don't understand what a word means, feel free to say you don't instead of ignoring it.

I would however support a free (as in buying with credits) option, but the price would indeed need to be pretty steep (probably to the point of making it worthless to add the credit option) to maintain the devs need to sell them for actual cash. Sure it is pay for power (what a stupid phrase in a co-op game),

"Pay for power" in a co-op game isn't a stupid phrase. You have the issue of either the paid player having a dull time because he can't do harder content due to having consider his non-supercharged teammates or the non-supercharged teammates not being able to do anything, having no fun, and then leaving. But worrying about pay for power in co-op is stupid so we shouldn't worry about it.

but those are the realities of F2P gaming, the devs and their families need to eat outweigh your feelings of being "statistically inferior".

Hey here's a quick tip. That guy who feels "statistically inferior"? He was going to put money into their game, but those feelings of being "statistically inferior" made him pause, consider things, then decide to put their money into something that doesn't work towards generating such feelings. Whoops, now there's no money. You can't just put the F2P crowd into groups of "Never pays ever and wants everything free" or "Pays for every little stat boosts."

In case you missed the point, this Orokin reactor/catalyst nonsense can lead into players deciding to just leave the game in frustration or annoyance. By going "well, you're not plopping money down for this, go away or be attached to your computer" you are driving people away and therefore losing money.

Edited February 15, 2013 by TheChaffeemancer

[DetergentPod]

if game is too easy, people will have nothing to do and get bored. that was my point.

anyways, we can keep discussing this all the time you want, i dont support this, period.

:D

If you don't support a thread or post. Don't post or reply to it. Just leave it alone. By posting or commenting on something you don't support is just wasting other people's time. If you don't support something or agree with something start your own thread instead of bashing other people's.

My Point is, if games is too easy people will get bored and leave. If game is too hard they'll get frustrated and leave. It's a lose-lose situation in both.

Edited February 15, 2013 by ThePieBoy

[DogManDan]

First the argument is the same that an item where the developer can clearly make a little bit on money is always going to be at issue with a total F2P player.

Now I have had no problem running alerts/doing boss missions and finding blueprints for the catalyst/reactors. I do not put a catalyst/reacotr on until I have reach level 15 where it is maxed. At this point I have been able to utilize the game well enough to decide if this item is worth the extra piece.

I have several blueprints in my Foundry and its just a matter of playing the levels and opening up even map to get the better alerts.

Should the item be available in game for Affinity? The simple answer is no.

Should the item have a higher drop rate chance than the assumed .2% that it currently has? Yes indeed it should. The current rate is mostly a luck of the draw by having grinded through every planet so you are able to get the alerts which drop it instead of the catalyst/reactor being in lower level alerts.

Before you respond in the wrong way know that just because I have supported the development of this game I have spent my time grinding away and printing items I want. TO me if I spent platnium on an item and I did not enjoy it I would feel real burnt from it. I also believe it to be one of the main points in the beta to test where the flaws of the game are and drop rates are a flaw right now. It is not inconsistent with other CBT games where they are working out what is the best rates for items to be in game while still being able to add these items to the cash shop.

I also would like to see a trade shop within the game for players to utilize, but it must be a trade shop that would remain solely Affinity based and never for real cash/platnium.

[Siege__]

At least, that's what I think, I'd rather they cost an absurd amount of credit opposed to just platinum only. I'm sickened of the thought of Warframe becoming a Pay-To-Win type of game.

What does everyone else think?

They either should be reduced to about 2ish platinum, or one of those Credit/Plat items like a gun. Refundable reactors will be great too

[Paprika]

300,000 Credits to 500,000 Credits BP price, 20,000 Credits construction price, and the time taken to grind for materials seems like a fair price to me.

[Archade]

You cant make them cost enough that people who are grinding endgame wont be able to potato every single weapon they have with out effort, with out making it totaly impossible for anyone starting out to ever hope to buy one with credits.

People not being able to potato every weapon/frame they own is a smaller problem to people not being able to get a decent frame/weapon set upgraded so they can play the harder parts of the game.

Starting frame and weapons should come pre-upgraded, and you should give people two spare catalysts starting out. That should fix the problem.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Archade

[breakandburn]

How about instead of a random ? alert that could easily be missed, you get to pick when to use your "chance" to get either a reactor or catalyst. Maybe you can do these missions once every 1-2 weeks?

1-2 weeks would be too often for such a prized item, we're trying to balance between "Too low and the devs won't make money" and "So high, it's not even worth trying for credit"

The scale should be tipped more to high, so if it we're like an allowance of choosing between Catalysts/Reactos, it'd have to be something like monthly or even longer.

Tying this into the login rewards would be a good compromise I think. Lets say you log in for 3 weeks every day in a row, you get a shot at earning one.

That way you give players even more incentive to log in and play the game more often. And chances are if you play a lot you are more inclined to invest your money into the game.

Either way to be fair the reactors and catalyst are fairly cheap as it is.

[KONAir]

Craft times are fine, neither you nor the devs really want you to go through content like crazy (though 3 days for frames after all that Grind is not... let's say not pretty). Login rewards are silly, I have more ammo boxes then I need. Credit buying is, no matter what price, is not a bright idea for DE.

How about when you get your frame/weapon to lvl 30, you get the reactor/catalyst for free? It would fit the fluff too, you knew everything about every gun ever but lost memories in deep freeze so you are just "remembering" instead of learning. When you get to lvl 30 with the frame/gun you get a little ceremony like thing when going up a rank, you get a similar ceremony and get the frame or weapon super charged in the end.

Getting stuck 15 upgrade slots for another 15 more levels (remember some if not all frames don't have their ultra without charge) but knowing you will get the thing you want in the end is a sure way to make people stick with the game (and get even more people to cave in and buy plats :P).

Edit: Ceremony might have a credit fee of 2 mil or 5 plats, early on with 1 or 2 frames getting millions is pretty hard, but not that time consuming or impossible. The more I think about it the more I like it.

Edited February 15, 2013 by KONAir

[DetergentPod]

I currently just thought of a good trade system. If someone has an extra blue print they don't need for say a Warframe or weapon they can put it up for x amount of credits. Then if someone need that Blue print they can type the name or part of the name of that blue print and it'll show them all the result. It'll show all the blue print people put up with that name or part of name in it and the amount of credit they put it up for. Then if they decide to buy it. They lose that much credit but get the blue print and the person selling lose the blue print but get x amount of credit. This way the game would have a ingame market base on credit and soon a little economy might develop where people will sell rare blue print for higher credit and things of that nature. There can even be an auction for the blue print. People can bid on it and there a time limit. When time limit is up the highest bidder get the item. This way people won't have to farm and grind for hours/days/weeks for the blue print instead they can buy it off other player. It shouldn't just be limited to blue print. Materials should also be available for sale. People would eventually decide on a standard price for Rubedo or alloy plate. Say 1 for 10 or 100 credit. etc

[ReggieC]

They have to make money somehow... and you can already get them for free ingame, although with a tad bit of luck. 500k is nothing in this game, atleast make them 2 mill a piece. But thats just my opinion, and I do not force it onto others.

Let me just give my view of this. Not as an argument, but as a perspective:

I understand the need to make money, but this particular transaction is too heavily waited toward the real life transaction option. These events are fairly short in their duration, and for the players who don't check in for very long--let's say an hour every day, if that--then that's one hour out of 24 each day that might or might not coincide with an event being available, with the odds stacked heavily against the casual player.

Perhaps even the ability to purchase a blueprint with a decent purchase cost and a more steep crafting cost, as well as requiring decent amounts of common materials and one or two rare ones. All I want is an option that lets me pour a decent amount of time into the game and gain access to an item without relying on luck or real life purchases. After all, the whole idea of platinum is to get you things sooner, and with less effort.

[DogManDan]

Perhaps even the ability to purchase a blueprint with a decent purchase cost and a more steep crafting cost, as well as requiring decent amounts of common materials and one or two rare ones. All I want is an option that lets me pour a decent amount of time into the game and gain access to an item without relying on luck or real life purchases. After all, the whole idea of platinum is to get you things sooner, and with less effort.

This is actually not a bad thought at all. Offering blueprints for the catalyst/reactors but with the extra crafting cost and much higher amount of materials would be a start, but there might still need to be a bit more to these particular blueprints maybe using the harder to attain materials.

[Voidstalker]

Can't you get them for free? (Week Login? Alert Blueprint? luck based, but free). Haven't really read through this post, but why not instead just have the ability to remove ones you already installed using the foundry, credits, materials, time and maybe a special sort of blueprint. You lose access to whatever stuff you are reclaiming until it is done and given a basic warframe & weapons if you don't have any other stuff (Lol) for as long as it takes to complete, lose half the item's affinity level and the cost would be 150% - 200% it's respec value.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Voidstalker

[-Basic-]

Can't you get them for free? (Week Login? Alert Blueprint? luck based, but free). Haven't really read through this post, but why not instead just have the ability to remove ones you already installed using the foundry, credits, materials, time and maybe a special sort of blueprint. You lose access to whatever stuff you are reclaiming until it is done and given a basic warframe & weapons if you don't have any other stuff (Lol) for as long as it takes to complete, lose half the item's affinity level and the cost would be 150% - 200% it's respec value.

Re-using old reactors for a large cost like that would be pretty cool, I mean we can replace old mods for a price between frames and weapons for a fee right? So it's the same concept.

[Botskiz]

This is actually not a bad thought at all. Offering blueprints for the catalyst/reactors but with the extra crafting cost and much higher amount of materials would be a start, but there might still need to be a bit more to these particular blueprints maybe using the harder to attain materials.

They could use new materials that only drop from mobs in alert missions. Not only ? alerts, but normal ones, too. Maybe even specific ones for each faction. It would give purpose to doing normal alerts, be much less random than ? alerts and still restrict farming potential enough to make platinum purchases a viable option.

[Alaric_Kerensky]

I am simply baffled by the arrogance of some people.

We all love this game. So you would expect that we all want it to continue to improve and endure. That does NOT happen for free on the developer's part. Those guys have families to feed, and the company has bills to pay to keep this game live. Sure, you can play the game for free, but then you are NOT SUPPORTING it. I had no problem throwing $50 in to help support development and get me a few fun toys to use in the game.

If you are so selfish that you really want to avoid supporting the game in any way while still playing it, then deal with the difficulty of getting premium content. You have done absolutely nothing in return for the devs, and they are still providing you with an awesome experiance, and are even allowing you to eventually get premium stuff such as Orokin Catalysts, as rare as they might be (as they should be!). Warframe and weapon slots, alternate helmets, superchargers, and expanded paint options are all there to make some money to keep the game in development. Respect that fact. Not everything should be free. Just be happy the game is PvE and you do not have to fight against guys with supercharged frames.

If you still disagree with me, then feel free to complain more. That is all it is. If you want a truly free game, go outside, find a stick, and play army with a buddy. I do not mean to sound harsh, but that is as close to really being free as you are going to get.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Alaric_Kerensky

[DogManDan]

I am simply baffled by the arrogance of some people.

We all love this game. So you would expect that we all want it to continue to improve and endure. That does NOT happen for free on the developer's part. Those guys have families to feed, and the company has bills to pay to keep this game live. Sure, you can play the game for free, but then you are NOT SUPPORTING it. I had no problem throwing $50 in to help support development and get me a few fun toys to use in the game.

If you are so selfish that you really want to avoid supporting the game in any way while still playing it, then deal with the difficulty of getting premium content. You have done absolutely nothing in return for the devs, and they are still providing you with an awesome experiance, and are even allowing you to eventually get premium stuff such as Orokin Catalysts, as rare as they might be (as they should be!). Warframe and weapon slots, alternate helmets, superchargers, and expanded paint options are all there to make some money to keep the game in development. Respect that fact. Not everything should be free. Just be happy the game is PvE and you do not have to fight against guys with supercharged frames.

If you still disagree with me, then feel free to complain more. That is all it is. If you want a truly free game, go outside, find a stick, and play army with a buddy. I do not mean to sound harsh, but that is as close to really being free as you are going to get.

Okay I'll disagree with you how does that sound. I do not see anyone being selfish here, we are talking about how to better make a resource available to F2P players than it is now. The current luck rate of getting a Catalyst/Reactor is about 2% if you are online 24hrs a day.

Sure the developers need to make money, but at the same time need to think about whether or not the core base of players are:

1) continue playing/grinding with almost no chance of a drop on the much needed part for your weapons/frame. At some point these players will quit from frustation and will make sure to tell as many people as they can not to play this game.

2)They need to set a line where someone feels it will be worth putting real money in without feeling like that are being nickel & dimed to progress or the same will happen and these people will leave and keep others from joining.

3) Firgure out a happy medium in between where you can still make money from people willing to support or wanting just to level items without heavy grinding, but making it so F2P can find these resources with a little extra effort, not weeks of trying to get a blueprint.

Now that being said the premise of F2P is that all items are made available both in game or as a cash option if someone chooses. Making an item that is much needed to level in a game to hard to aquire is not the correct way of developing the F2P game.

They could use new materials that only drop from mobs in alert missions. Not only ? alerts, but normal ones, too. Maybe even specific ones for each faction. It would give purpose to doing normal alerts, be much less random than ? alerts and still restrict farming potential enough to make platinum purchases a viable option.

Should be the harder to find resources regardless of what mission or alert you would be running that way you know that it is possible to get one built without grinding for weeks on end hoping to get one.

Re-using old reactors for a large cost like that would be pretty cool, I mean we can replace old mods for a price between frames and weapons for a fee right? So it's the same concept.

This concept would not bring any money into the game from a cash standpoint since once you have one you would be using in game credits to swap it around over and over, same as the F2P player who would just grind for 1 and then never need to look again. This would not be viable at all.

So back to the topic, yes something needs to be done to help the drop rate of these items a bit easier to get before people get discouraged and leave. You want people to stay not start managing high turn over because of a simple drop rate calculation change.

Some possibilites could be a blueprint at an high credit price which requires more rare resources to finallize as well as a longer crafting time to complete and possibly setting a limit on how many could be crafted in a weeks time. So if you say that only 1 could be created in any week from in game credits it allows F2P players the ability to make them, but still leave the real cash option open to quickly buying them. Just an idea.

Obviously I support the development of the game and hope to see a great future, but some things still need to be corrected. This is what the beta is for and why we discuss it in the forums. The good, bad, and sometimes ugly.

[Nokturnol]

devs have to eat too, and they need money for that, that being said, u can even get those things for free. i understand ur frustration od not getting this stuff as easy as u would want too.

GRIND OR GIVE US MONEY NOW!

That's pretty much what the devs are saying in this game.

There's aton of horribly boring F2P Korean MMOs out there that are exactly the same. (And they're horribly unpopular due to this)

But here in America, you can actually sell Cosmetic Items and other luxury items to make money with F2P games, instead of forcing F2P players to either grind or give you money.

Trying to profit off of other people's addictions is what drug dealers do. Gaming companies should probably set a better example.

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Edited February 21, 2013 by Nokturnol