Bring back alerts, but keep Nightwave without the time limit

[eksby]

Edit: 

So a couple weeks after posting this thread, I still am of the opinion that Nightwave should not be time-gated. For me personally, I've given up on Nightwave simply because I spent approximately 90% of my free time doing Nightwave challenges, but I was still not able to do enough each week to be able to get the end reward. I've calculated. At the rate I'm going I'll be just shy of it, and honestly I'm tired of spending practically all my free time doing NW when I won't even be able to get the thing I actually want (rank 30 armor). 

Instead, I'll play the Orb event, finally get up to date in Fortuna, and ignore Nightwave completely. Not sure that was DE's intention, but the way its currently set up with the time gate is really too punishing for players with little daily time. 

---

Yes, another Nightwave thread. But hear me out. 

Bring back alerts, but why?! 

Simply put, most of Nightwave is impossible for new players to do. Capture 10 animals? Requires them to have got to Fortuna. Do a sortie? Requires them to have gotten past the War Within. Do 60 min of Kuva survival? Most new players don't have the mods to even be able to last for 30 min. 

At the very least, the old alert system allowed new players to do a quick mission to get that 3000 nano spores they so desperately need. Or a helmet cosmetic, or a new sword blueprint that they don't have yet. It also gave bored old players the option to hop in game and do a quick alert for an Aura mod if they wanted some more on their stockpile to give out to newbies. 

Nightwave was supposed to alleviate the issue of players never seeing a nitain or Vauban alert simply because they were always on at the wrong time, and to help new players get the mats or helms or auras they needed by buying it with Wolf Creds. But in its current state, Nightwave does not really solve this problem either—Wolf Creds are too hard to get for newer players and also too hard to get for players who do not have enough time to play every day. All it does it give veterans and people with a lot of time a bunch of chores to do every day. Sure, that's a drop in the bucket for many. But for others without so much time, or who struggle to even complete the tasks, it stops them from actually playing content they want to play because they're now too busy trying to finish Nightwave challenges. Which leads me to my next point. 

Nightwave should NOT have a time limit. 

By that I mean, it would be better if it was content that the player can work towards at their own pace until they got to the end reward, where they would then be upgraded to the next season. Nightwave was supposed to replace alerts and allow new players to be able to buy the things they needed—but most new players won't even be able to make enough Wolf Creds to buy what they need in that time limit. Then for veterans, personally speaking there's nothing really that interests me besides the Umbra forma, emotes, syandana, and armor set. But most of those are at the last ranks, which means veterans like me will be doing a bunch of boring chores that we have done over and over again every day for 10 weeks simply to get a set of cosmetics. (As a collector, it pains me greatly.)

Nightwave in its current form goes against what made Warframe so great.

It should be evidenced by the icon below my name that I've been here for a while. Since 2013, to be exact. But I think it should be said that though I've taken breaks every now and then, Warframe is still the only game I've kept coming back to (and the only game I regularly buy from, simply to support the devs even if I'm not really playing much). 

What I loved about Warframe was that you could hop in and play a bit, then hop out and not need to worry about missing out too much on content. Come back when there's new content, grind to your heart's content for a couple days or weeks then go on with life, occasionally hopping back in to play whenever you feel the itch to blow up some mooks or chill. There was no need to log in every day, because eventually you would get those login rewards down the line. I've played this game for six years—surely it's reasonable that sometimes I want to play something else for a change? But I'll give Warframe credit: it's the only game that hasn't burned me out after all these years, simply because it allowed you to do what you want, when you want. (For the most part. Events not included, but those were typically short and not 10 week long affairs in which you needed to log in almost every day and play for a couple hours just to get the final reward.)

But now with Nightwave? I recently took an extended break and just came back, but I already feel burnt out and I've only been back for 3 days. I haven't even gotten to play the Fortuna content, which is what I really wanted to play, because I've been too busy using all my free time to catch up on the Nightwave challenges. 

And that's simply my own experience. As many on the forums and reddit seem to agree, Nightwave will burn players out in the long run. It's not even been 2 weeks and quite a few of us are already feeling it. Either that or people will start to ignore it completely, which would negate the entire point of the thing. And which would be a shame, because honestly the lore surrounding it seems quite interesting. 

---

So I would propose:

1. Bring back alerts (for the new players)

a) Maybe it could have 4 nitain alerts per day, with each lasting 3-6 hours. That would allow people to come on and actually catch the nitain. Same for Vauban parts/etc. 

2. Change Nightwave. Some suggestions include:

a) Removing the 10 week time limit and making it something that players can slowly do on their own time like login rewards. Maybe make new challenges appear after each rankup, so that those who want to no-life it can do that if they want to. If we go this route, I don't even care if there are 60 min Kuva survivals with a friend because I'll know that I can do that at my own pace. What's really killer in the current Nightwave is the time limit pressure. 

b) Making the challenges substantially less time consuming. Very few people want to do 10 animal captures or 10 syndicate missions or 9 Cetus bounties or 60 min Kuva survivals if they've already done it all. Or if they simply don't find the content very interesting and would rather play something else they find fun out of all the other things you can do in Warframe. But 1 Kuva survival mission? Sure, I'd do that for 5 min. Or 1 syndicate mission? Doesn't sound too bad. Gives us as players more time to do things we actually want to do. 

c) Giving a broader range of challenges so players can pick and choose what they want to do. I'm sure no one will be complaining if we could pick to do 5 capture missions instead of a 60 min Kuva survival if we wanted to. 

d) Making challenges more about gameplay rather than game modes. I personally liked the "kill x amount of enemies with Ice/Blast/etc damage," "kill x amounts of enemies while sliding" etc. Those were fun, and I could passively do it in my regular gameplay rather than need to go out of my way to play a game mode I dislike. And, it actually got me to bring out some old guns or switch out mods that I hadn't touched in years. 

e) 

On 2019-03-06 at 6:19 PM, Shanoo said:

Another approach might be to keep reputation and creds until the event cycles back in and finish it the next time it appears. At least I hope events will eventually return another time, since that way new players would have a chance to complete them later, when they're more experienced and geared for it.

f) Other suggestions?

Nightwave has potential—there's no doubt to that. But it could be a lot better, and I hope you all at DE will consider our suggestions. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by eksby

[Chewarette]

They solely invented Nightwave to have their own Season Pass stuff with exclusive rewards, which has to have a time limit, in the sole objective for you to freak out over missing something.

That's borderline scammy, but that's the game industry, they'll never remove the time limit unfortunately.

[SenorClipClop]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

the sole objective for you to freak out over missing something. That's borderline scammy

Except you can't pay for Nightwave success? Look, if they meant for people to freak out, get stressed and dislike their game, if they actually intended that, they would be intentionally making their game less appealing. Let's be rational here.

36 minutes ago, eksby said:

Capture 10 animals? Requires them to have got to Fortuna.

This one is not actually that hard to get to. Markiplier has a video on Warframe where he gets to Fortuna in his second day of play. And while Conservation can take a while in each instance, I'd ignored it til this week and got the Act done in an hour or two. Conservation also, and I didn't know this, is a really easy source of lots of SU Standing, so it was a win-win.

[Chewarette]

12 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Except you can't pay for Nightwave success? Look, if they meant for people to freak out, get stressed and dislike their game, if they actually intended that, they would be intentionally making their game less appealing. Let's be rational here.

Of course the objective is to freak you out. That's the same concept as the Login reward, except the login rewards are just delayed, while any Nightwave item you miss may be gone forever. If you want to take a break from Warframe for whatever reasons, you now perfectly know you'll miss :

- Login rewards

- Nightwave exclusive armor/syandana

- One Umbral Forma

That's the concept of the "seasons with exclusive stuff". Get it now before it's gone forever!

15 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

This one is not actually that hard to get to. Markiplier has a video on Warframe where he gets to Fortuna in his second day of play. And while Conservation can take a while in each instance, I'd ignored it til this week and got the Act done in an hour or two. Conservation also, and I didn't know this, is a really easy source of lots of SU Standing, so it was a win-win.

A Youtuber who perfectly knows the game and is paid for that showed you can be on Fortuna on Day 2 ? Impressive! What about a totally random newplayer who discovers Warframe ? He probable won't be in Fortuna before one or two weeks.

I too could create a new account and reach MR20 in a week, that doesn't make it the "newplayer experience". A newplayer will struggle against Europe enemies.

[.Gucci]

I can't agree with you more. The alerts must be put back and nightwave should be modify to its refinement or it will become nightmare.

[(PSN)idsie]

Yes, this should change. Night wave elite acts should be harder. Just because people don't have enough time to play or are to new to the game shouldn't mean you need to decrease the difficulty. If you go beyond the 30th rank you'll nothing but wolf credits. 

These acts are designed to make you change up what you do. Hence the passive grind you endorse is probably the worst. Last week we massively did invasions, leading to either the fomorian or razorback meter to grow. Which in turn gives us something to do. 

There will always be people unable to certain Acts. I got some friends to help me out with hunting because I honestly never do it. But now I've started doing it just whenever for the floofs. 

If the Acts aren't challenging you're basically getting free stuff and in a game that needs microtrans for survival them giving you slots and such for just completing basictasks is amazing. 

And Chewarette. You can knock out the weekly stuff in a day and as long as you complete about 65% of all acts you'll get all "season rewards". Yes they are forcing us to choose, but yesterday literally had to make a real choice for the first time in this game. So maybe those choices result in not all players having everything or the same stuff and thats nothing but good. 

The developers also already said everything will come back at a later date. 

Only other note Nitain. 

Something you need shouldn't be locked away behind a system for which you need a special limited currency. Yes there are more obscure ways to get nitain, but alerts used to be the main way. Maybe lump in 5x nitain with the sigil / emblem rewards. 

[Aseraan]

I love nightwave challenges it makes me play modes i didnt  bother before and it actually rewarding wich is nice.

Alerts were no offense pretty much pointless whit the rewards being  worthless and random........

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

 

1 hour ago, eksby said:

Simply put, most of Nightwave is impossible for new players to do.

At the very least, the old alert system allowed new players to do a quick mission to get that 3000 nano spores they so desperately need.

Not sure all of Nightwave is supposed to be possible for new players.

Who are these new players that have the whole map unlocked and could play all alerts? Yes, they could taxi, but again, who are the new players asking for taxi?

[Chewarette]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)idsie said:

The developers also already said everything will come back at a later date. 

"Exclusive" rewards are not meant to come back at a later date. Otherwise they're not "Exclusive".

[(PSN)idsie]

22 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

 

I too could create a new account and reach MR20 in a week, that doesn't make it the "newplayer experience". A newplayer will struggle against Europe enemies.

Yea, new. Players struggle. Thays nothing  but healthy. Otherwise there is no point to progress. Also you couldn't reach MR 20 in a week, but I know what your saying

Edited March 6, 2019 by (PS4)idsie

[(PSN)NED-669]

Nightwave update has only brought much frustration the the game. Dissapointing.....

[nlas-slayerkane]

we still discussing this / ragin about it ? 
how many topics wil there come after this one .. 

like dev explained in their annoucement topic and on the dev stream they will be

" definitely be shifting things around, adding and removing, and ultimately learning as we go." 
 

so i understand your (and many others)  point of view but isnt it better give feedback in the feedback topic that is created for it ( that the dev reads ) instead of another topic from wich we are not sure it will be read ? 


 

[(PSN)idsie]

10 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

"Exclusive" rewards are not meant to come back at a later date. Otherwise they're not "Exclusive".

The devs literally said - "Except the founders items nothing will be exclusive, including the armor sets and rewards from this "season"". 

[(PSN)idsie]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)NED-669 said:

Nightwave update has only brought much frustration the the game. Dissapointing.....

Explain? 

[Chewarette]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)idsie said:

The devs literally said - "Except the founders items nothing will be exclusive, including the armor sets and rewards from this "season"". 

The website literally says "limited-time, exclusive rewards".

[(PSN)NED-669]

My disspointment grows from the long hours i've put in since the update and have only run into the wolf once. And he didnt drop **** all

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

The website literally says "limited-time, exclusive rewards".

Exclusive doesn't necessarily mean never to be seen again.

For example, Umbra Forma. At the moment it is a Nightwave Exclusive reward. You can't get from anywhere else in the game. But I assume it's gonna show up again as a reward in this mode next time.

[Exelcto]

Just stop... For the first time people have to actually play the game and spend some time out there and everyone loses their minds. Sometimes I think that everything the players nowadays want is to have everything served on plate. Truth is that rewards don't even affect ur power.

[(PSN)idsie]

@Chewarette

 

Yes it probably does and the devs literally said they will bring any rewards back at a later date. 

https://youtu.be/HKKvSS3lVfw between minute 7 and 9 ish

Edited March 6, 2019 by (PS4)idsie
Quote didnt work

[wirecard]

i came here by incident, read the comment, and felt.. WOW! you really nailed it.

since nightwave, i do not have time for anything else in the game, sure i enjoy those tasks like capture 10 animals or do 3 assassinations and so on. also in general, i like the principle of dailies/weeklies. and i could enjoy those elite missions like 1h (kuva) survival (can we do both challenges in 1 run? ) or do a tridolon. (no i couldnt enjoy the tridolon thing, because for this, you'll need tons focus which isnt be done in the half a year that im playing this game while also having to get other stuff than just farm focus) but, as you pointed out, WITHOUT time pressure.

i guess we play a game to enjoy it and have fun whilst playing and not having the same situation as it is on work, where you got to have everything finished prefereably yesterday. sure, WF is also about efficiency but as i said i play a game to enjoy it and not to emulate a second kind of work. come on, this is what i want to get rid off by playing games!?!

in my opinion, removing the overall time limit and/or giving the ability to pick quests out af a pool instead of being forced to be able to tridolon or 1h kuva should be enough to save this. (something like for every week, pick 10 missions, regardless of difficulty. e.g. picking only elite weeklies would lead to a very faster ranking up and therefore getting more wolf creds, but the one who just takes the normal challenges can also get his umbral forma and maybe armor set, even if DE let the nightwave time limited for 10 weeks. those who are able to do solo tridolon and solo kuva survival with a friend are getting things faster, but everyone else also comes to the aim, just a little bit slower.. but then please give harder to accomplish elite challenges as idsie proposed. i prefer safe 30k per week instead of being mad for not getting the 5k challenge, because of 901274398729358x try to get 1h kuva survival without a randy-S#&$head using life support "bEcAuSe I jUsT gOT iT DonE sO Why ShoULd i CaRe?!" ) i hope you get my points. 

OT: now im gonna do a short thread just to ask why they didnt implement the buddy list in the chat system (thats why i came to the forum) and not via "quit what you're doing -> esc -> communication -> buddy list" every time. that sucks and has ruined a lot of friendships for me, simply because its so unnnecessarily complicated to reach, therefore i do not look there. which is very sad. i mean, its 2019, and they cannot implement the buddy list in the chat system?!? just a small button next to the emojis and the list of ppl currently in this chat...

[Marvelous_A]

5 minutes ago, Exelcto said:

Just stop... For the first time people have to actually play the game and spend some time out there and everyone loses their minds. Sometimes I think that everything the players nowadays want is to have everything served on plate. Truth is that rewards don't even affect ur power.

You sure you done your reading properly? Coz nobody is asking free reward here.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[(XBOX)Dic3man]

Quote

Nightwave will burn players out in the long run.

For reference I put in more time during last acolytes event that lasted for less than a week than I will be putting in to get to rank 30 in these 10 weeks TOTAL (ofc I dont know the coming events but its a qualified guess going by the first 2).
Also I didnt even get what I wanted during the acolytes event (hows that for locking things behind a grind, a "real grind" aswell).
I think warframe is the most grindy game I have played IF you want  everything maxed etc (and thats ok for me) so NW for me is a piss in the ocean (even casual Destiny was more grindy in terms of daily/weekly bounties).

Edited March 6, 2019 by (XB1)Dic3man

[(PSN)idsie]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Dic3man said:

For reference I put in more time during last acolytes event that lasted for less than a week than I will be putting in to get to rank 30 in these 10 weeks TOTAL (ofc I dont know the coming events but its a qualified guess going by the first 2).
Also I didnt even get what I wanted during the acolytes event (hows that for locking things behind a grind, a "real grind" aswell).

If you've done all weekly Acts you should be nearly at rank 9 / 10 by the end of this week (depending on the target spawns). So it will take 6 weeks of doing everything to be maxed. Then you have 4 more weeks if you decide to do it at your own pace. 

Yes its probably going to annoy people if they can't reach the 30th rank, but guess what people will always find a reason to be annoyed. DEV Challenges to hard, Raids to hard or time consuming, so either of those complaints is going to be on the forefront of this discussion. You're not meant to be able to do anything at day one, difficulty wise. Youre not meant to do everything in a day, time wise. 

- this complaining will probably cause there not to be any great skins in the rewards pool for Wolf Credits. Imagine if at week 7 you can get an immortal warframe skin, everyone will lose their shi. People losing their cool leads to downwatering of difficulty and therefore the enjoyment you get for actually doing something else then sitting in the same mission everyday. 

[eksby]

 

43 minutes ago, Aseraan said:

I love nightwave challenges it makes me play modes i didnt  bother before and it actually rewarding wich is nice.

Alerts were no offense pretty much pointless whit the rewards being  worthless and random........

Even if alerts were pointless to you, they were useful to new players. What's wrong with both being implemented? You can continue to ignore alerts as usual and new players can have their easy 3000 nano spores. 

42 minutes ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

 

Not sure all of Nightwave is supposed to be possible for new players.

Who are these new players that have the whole map unlocked and could play all alerts? Yes, they could taxi, but again, who are the new players asking for taxi?

I don't know about you, but every time an alert with a good reward dropped, the recruit tab would be filled with players asking for taxi...

40 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

"Exclusive" rewards are not meant to come back at a later date. Otherwise they're not "Exclusive".

One of the things I liked about Warframe was that there were very few "exclusive" rewards. Most things come back, even if its after a few years. I'm not a fan of exclusive time-limited things, if I was, I'd be playing Blizzard games.

35 minutes ago, nlas-slayerkane said:

we still discussing this / ragin about it ? 
how many topics wil there come after this one .. 

like dev explained in their annoucement topic and on the dev stream they will be

" definitely be shifting things around, adding and removing, and ultimately learning as we go." 
 

so i understand your (and many others)  point of view but isnt it better give feedback in the feedback topic that is created for it ( that the dev reads ) instead of another topic from wich we are not sure it will be read ? 


 

Good point, I'll post this in there as well. 

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Dic3man said:

For reference I put in more time during last acolytes event that lasted for less than a week than I will be putting in to get to rank 30 in these 10 weeks TOTAL (ofc I dont know the coming events but its a qualified guess going by the first 2).
Also I didnt even get what I wanted during the acolytes event (hows that for locking things behind a grind, a "real grind" aswell).
I think warframe is the most grindy game I have played IF you want  everything maxed etc (and thats ok for me) so NW for me is a piss in the ocean (even casual Destiny was more grindy in terms of daily/weekly bounties).

The difference between acolytes grind and this "grind" is that acolytes you could spend less than a week and grind for hours. This one, you need to log in almost daily for 10 weeks. Not all of us are able to log in daily, hence why I have perhaps only 400 days for the login rewards when I've been playing before the current login reward system was even implemented. 

[(XBOX)Dic3man]

Yeah I am rank 8 now should be at 8.5 but got shafted 3 times last week from the sortie with friends that didnt count friday,saturday or sunday which kinda sucked.
Sure I could hunt fugitives also but otherwise if we just assume we get 43k per week then it will take 7 weeks.
You are bound to pick up some fugitives along the way though, to reach 10 in 6 weeks you would need to hunt down 140 fugitives per week (or 840 fugitives total during those 6 weeks, actually a bit more since the first week was not a full week). But still week 7 is pretty good which leaves 3 weeks of slack.

 

The dailies stay for 3-4 days no?
That means you could log in once or twice every week and do them all in 2-3 hours, not REALLY a grind is it?
You could even do them every other week and still get to rank 20+.

Edited March 6, 2019 by (XB1)Dic3man