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Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

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On 2019-03-06 at 8:52 AM, ---PV---Sniga said:

Still a bit sad how the last Tactical Potato video is spreading massive misinformation, as he actually has 0 knowledge about barely any of the topics he said there, and newer players now took his word for law and are on a witch hunt for people from Riven Dealers, which actually have nothing to do with this. 

If I may make a few PR suggestions, you would probably sound more credible if you said, unprompted, that you believed this was a good change. As your post stands right now, even if people take your word that Semlar was selling a paid riven bot, it will only be viewed as one gang going to war with another gang and causing the police to clean both of them up. Reading the thread, many other of your clanmates have said that they, too, used Semlar's riven price tracker, which should be consistent with a stating something along the lines of, "Making trade prices a public resource rather than a third party resource under Semlar's control and possible manipulation is a good thing." Omitting such a statement simply makes it appear that you're trying to take Semlar down with you without regard for much else.

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Guys, chill out. If those riven traders are not trying to hide any information, which is exactly what we hope for, then posting realtime trading price would NOT affect anyone in the market AT ALL! Am I right?

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On 2019-03-06 at 10:49 PM, KIREEK said:

huh, you do realize this is mostly pointless, knowing values still doesn't stop players from making the same question that happens in pretty much all trades, they ask "how much?"

It would be great if that's the case, and this price broadcasting stuff would have no effect on the current market, right? 

The point is, there are people out there that do not have any clue about the expected price of riven mods, partially because they don't have access to it. And now here's a place where they can find it. 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, continue said:

If I may make a few PR suggestions, you would probably sound more credible if you said, unprompted, that you believed this was a good change. As your post stands right now, even if people take your word that Semlar was selling a paid riven bot, it will only be viewed as one gang going to war with another gang and causing the police to clean both of them up. Reading the thread, many other of your clanmates have said that they, too, used Semlar's riven price tracker, which should be consistent with a stating something along the lines of, "Making trade prices a public resource rather than a third party resource under Semlar's control and possible manipulation is a good thing." Omitting such a statement simply makes it appear that you're trying to take Semlar down with you without regard for much else.

I'm not really a PR for the "Riven Mafia" (which I still think is a funny name, but what can I do), I am, however, trying to explain that the players from the Riven Dealers clan had nothing to do with this Faceless drama. He took it all upon himself, as well as the consequences. Yet what happens now is players from the clan - ones that didn't even know what had happened - get harassed, and even some of them were sent insults and had to basically leave the clan just to stop this. 

What do you mean with the change? As of now I don't know what change will come, so I can't say. I can say I am happy with RivenHunter not seeing the light of day though. That's definitely good news for everyone. For now it seems Semlar might return back to the way it was, just using a more reliable tracker, which sounds great. I'm all for it, I miss it myself.

I really don't want war. I'm trying to peacefully and calmly explain to the best of my ability what's going on, yet people read my post and laugh at it. Trust me, it's hard to be the one fish that is swimming against the tide.

 

I would, however, appreciate if DE looked at this situation with Tactical Potato, because up to now his content was good and helpful for the community of newer players. Yet what he did now is definitely unacceptable, I expected much more responsibility from a Warframe partner. I mean he is even wrong in the simplest reason, and what this is ALL about - he showed the RivenHunter app and straight up called it the Riven Dealers discord.. Like, really. How little effort did he put into that, and led by that lack of research he just launched all his viewers with pitchforks at the Riven Dealers clan. See what I'm getting at?

Edited by ---PV---Sniga
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On 2019-03-06 at 10:11 AM, Leyvonne said:

Wouldn't it be better to cut out the need to use 3rd party websites and programs for trading? I'm not talking about an auction house, but a "marketboard" where players would list their WTB, WTT and WTS offers and others could check it out and see all prices at one glance. The board would show online / offline status, a short note like "usually online around 9pm gmt+3" and the offers on the board would stay there as long as the player refreshes them once a week to avoid cluttering up from players who aren't actvie anymore. Everything else about trading would stay the same; we'd need to contact the other person, agree on price, setup the trade and so on. So basically warframe.market, but ingame.

When i played trove that game had a system like that and i think it worked. I would like to see that implemented in some form or another down the line. 

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1 hour ago, Phatose said:

Where do those weights come from, exactly? 

 

How can a riven possibly be overpriced?  The natural price of something is a synthetic benchmark, based on averages.  If person X is pays a lot of money for an item, and person Y pays less, that doesn't mean person X overpaid - the price X paid gets accounted for in the average price of said item.

I don't trade in rivens simply because I'm not willing to put in the effort required to reach a price as favorable as possible.  Those who do put in that effort don't owe me anything.  Nor does my opinion on what a fair price is amount to anything beyond what trades I myself am willing to make. 

This whole affair stinks of players wanting to lessen the value of other people's goods and labor by yelling about fairness, even though their own valuation is every bit as arbitrary as what they're complaining about.

I thought I explained being able to extrapolate the price using an algorithm based on properties and the selling price of the rivens based on those properties. Obviously, you don't understand weighted averages that well to know what I am referring to using the variance and standard deviation to calculate from the mean to determine the weight applied to each property of a given riven. So, a riven with the three most sought after properties would be considerably more than one with one or two of those properties. So, unlike what you think, it wouldn't lower their cost, but give a better reference point to start with for purchasers and sellers. It's not the oversimplified version that you are presenting just based off a generic average overall.

So, what really stinks is peoples greed at trying to exploit the lack of informatuon to make plat off people. And if you have never seen someone laugh at someone else for buying their junk riven, then maybe you are a statistical anomaly. People would still make plenty off them. But why would you not want people to have useful data? That only makes me question what your motives are. You can sell your riven for whatever you like, so why hide information from people rather than make it available?

Some people work long hours and buy plat because their time is limited. They don't have time to spend hours and hours in the market. You say people don't want to put in the effort, but that isn't the case. DE makes their living off from platinum purchases, not from people who farm all day and willing to sit in trade chat analyzing prices. Those people are still important, because they influence prices, but they don't pay the bills and keep the game afloat. It's about maintaining balance. If prices for rivens are too high, then the game is pay to win, as earning enough plat would not be possible for many players. Balance is good, not bad. It keeps the game going and I would like to see Warframe to be successful going forward. I like playing the game. Not playing financial markets that make it a second job.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Yahto said:

I thought I explained being able to extrapolate the price using an algorithm based on properties and the selling price of the rivens based on those properties. Obviously, you don't understand weighted averages that well to know what I am referring to using the variance and standard deviation to calculate from the mean to determine the weight applied to each property of a given riven. So, a riven with the three most sought after properties would be considerably more than one with one or two of those properties. So, unlike what you think, it wouldn't lower their cost, but give a better reference point to start with for purchasers and sellers. It's not the oversimplified version that you are presenting just based off a generic average overall. 

So, what really stinks is peoples greed at trying to exploit the lack of informatuon to make plat off people. And if you have never seen someone laugh at someone else for buying their junk riven, then maybe you are a statistical anomaly. People would still make plenty off them. But why would you not want people to have useful data? That only makes me question what your motives are. You can sell your riven for whatever you like, so why hide information from people rather than make it available?

Some people work long hours and buy plat because their time is limited. They don't have time to spend hours and hours in the market. You say people don't want to put in the effort, but that isn't the case. DE makes their living off from platinum purchases, not from people who farm all day and willing to sit in trade chat analyzing prices. Those people are still important, because they influence prices, but they don't pay the bills and keep the game afloat. It's about maintaining balance. If prices for rivens are too high, then the game is pay to win, as earning enough plat would not be possible for many players. Balance is good, not bad. It keeps the game going and I would like to see Warframe to be successful going forward. I like playing the game. Not playing financial markets that make it a second job.

Oh, I want people to have useful data.  So I'd like to know the exact mechanics of how you're planning on getting that data, and I really want to be sure that it's not being misrepresented.  If they're going to put up a weighted average, great.  Make damn sure that they're making it absolutely clear it's a weighted average, how exactly it's being calculated, and what are it's limitations.

I've seen entirely too many people complaining about prices and entirely too many attempts to drive prices down - not to get correct prices, simply to lower them - to accept data being put up without 100% open context.  Cause hiding that information, or making it anything other then completely transparent and accessible is doing the exact same thing as is being complained about - using limited information to manipulate markets.

My motivation is very simple - I dislike hypocrisy, and I distrust the motives of those pushing for this as much as they distrust mine.  I want to make damn sure that any solutions to the problem of insufficient information distorting markets do not themselves create a lack of information.  Like, say, calculating a value of a riven without showing the exact process to reach said valuation.

So, assume I'm a complete idiot, and walk me through the calculations.  Assume you have complete access to all of DE's logs of trades, and I have an a riven.  The riven is for any possible item with any possible combination of affixes, which may or may not match anything in the trade history.  Show me the exact math to reach the valuation you're going to show me, please.

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2 hours ago, metaldog564 said:

What kind of caveman still uses XML? JSON is a much better format, heck, even YAML is a better format.

JSON would be great

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On 2019-03-06 at 10:17 AM, Lythandra said:

Put in an auction house please. 

For some reason DE thinks an auction house will decrease Plat sales. I have not bought any plat since I avoid the trade chat. It's a horrible inefficient system that I do not wish to spend time on. Having an nice AH to looks at items to buy would tempt me for sure.  

^this, trade chat sucks honestly.

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Please keep in mind that what happens on PC with the market does have an impact on the smaller PS4 market especially when dealing with people who use third party resources

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On 2019-03-06 at 4:58 PM, (XB1)Nittymaster said:

Plat is in game currency not real money.  No one that I know can put plat in a will or take plat with it them to their graves.

You know all the plat that players currently possess in the game is platinum that was paid with real money by someone at some point in some form (direct plat purchase, maybe a prime access).

If you get plat for "free" by selling in-game items like rivens or prime junk or mods or whatever you can think of and never paid a single cent for platinum, it doesn't mean noone did. This is why I consider platinum purchases from players very carefully, especially when it comes to rivens and their extremely inflated asking prices.

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Honestly glad this was finally spoken about. Though many may say that there isn't a scam going on, actively telling people who are new that their stuff is with 10%-50% of what it should really be and then offering it to them all while hiding behind the whole "Oh, but they agreed to it, they took my offer." You know that you are buying it for extremely cheap, be nice to the new kids, they probably won't feel all that good when they realize they could've gotten more.

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On 2019-03-06 at 7:17 AM, Xzorn said:

 

There's a slight difference with Rivens though.

The player is not selling a set item. They're selling stats which takes more understanding of the Damage system than the general player probably has.

Unless someone sits and reads the wiki for 10 hours they cannot make an informed choice when buying or selling.

Even with that understanding you have to jump on notepad.exe and a calculator to see the improvement with something like this....

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Tigris Prime + Riven 100% Damage 100% Slash 80% Multishot
1560 Damage Crit 10% x2, Status 30%, 8 Pellets
Primed Point Blank + Vicous Spread + Riven
Damage per Pellet 8 / 1560 = 195
195 * (1 + 1.65 + 0.9 + 1) = 887.25
Elemental 887.25 * ( 0.6 + 0.6 + 0.6 + 0.6 ) = 2,129.4
Bonus Slash 709.8 * 1 = 709.8
Mulishot 8 ( 1 + 1.2 + 1) = 25.6 Pellets
Total Base Damage 25.6(709.8 + 887.25 + 2,129.4) =  95,397.12

Status Weight
Slash (709.8 + 709.8) / (887.25 + 709.8 + 532.35) = 0.6666 = 66.66%
Elemental 532.35 / ( 535.35 + 709.8 + 887.25) = 0.25 = 25%
Status Trigger = 1
Slash Trigger = 0.6666
Elemental Trigger = 0.25
Avg Bleed per Tick 887.25 * 0.35 ( 1 + ( 1- 2.0) * 0.1) = 341.59125
Avg Bleed per Proc 341.59125 * 7 = 2,397.13875
Avg Bleed per Pellet 2,391.13875 * 0.6666 = 1,594.093
Avg Bleed per Shot 1,594.093 * 25.6 = 40,808.78

Estimated Damage per Shot 95,397.12 + 40,808.78 = 136,205.9
Estimated Damage Vs. C.Flesh (36,341.76 * 1.25) + 4,542.72 + (54,512.64 * 1.75) + 40,808.78
45,427.2 + 4,542.72 + 95,397.12 + 40,808.72= 186,175.76

 

Funny you mention that

Its exactly what I do when I see an interesting riven listing, notepad and all

I don't have a problem with this situation, why shouldn't people be rewarded for utilizing their understanding and intelligence?

 

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On 2019-03-06 at 8:53 AM, Valkyr-Umbra said:

How about a cap in trade per plat to discourage exorbitant pricing? I totally agree riven prices are subjective, and I've happily paid high pices for rivens before (and sold stuff for a pretty penny) but 10k+ is objectively too much. IMO a single riven shouldn't sell for more than $200 worth of plat (without discount).

The whole riven system needs to be looked at again, both in terms of trading and rerolling.  This is a nice first step, but if its the end of it, I'll be profoundly disappointed. How about allowing us to lock a single stat from being rerolled for some sort of insane amount of kuva, like 300k? We'd still have to farm a ton, but we wouldn't have to rely purely on RNG.

Also, does this mean the tool semlar had which let us filter rivens posted in trade chat by time, positives/negatives, weapon type, and asking price is gone? This was the closest thing we had to an auction house and I found it to be an excellent convenience. I don't have the time to sit in trade chat 24/7, so using this once every 12 hours was very helpful, it was the closest thing we had to an auction house.

Anything over 20 dollars of plat is excessively overpriced for how common rivens are to get in the first place. I don't give two whits what kind of "god riven" you have. If it costs 200 dollars just because it's a slot machine mechanic item, then that's too much and bordering on the same kind of crap that got EA into trouble in the first place. The same kind of trouble DE tried to avoid by taking away the kubrow pattern/color "slot machine" that some guy spent 200 dollars on in a day way back when. (Only reason I don't say 50 dollars of plat is because 1k plat is a hefty amount for most likely more of the playerbase than those it isn't a hefty amount for, and trading isn't a reliable way to earn plat, given you can go for extraordinarily long dry spells even offering prime junk at standard selling prices.)

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Trading in EvE Online was much more efficient and clearer, perhaps DE could implement something similar ?

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While we're on the topic of trading, the in-game trading tab is a mess. It flies by, and you can barely read a thing. If you're looking to see if someone's selling a thing you're looking for or if you're trying to sell something yourself, it can often get lost in the sea of trades. 

I would love to see Riven Trading, Prime Blueprint Trading, and Mod/Misc Trading be separated into different tabs so that I don't need to see the things I'm not looking for when seeing what sorts of stuff players are selling, and perhaps your sale wouldn't go by so fast that most people miss it. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-03-06 at 9:52 AM, ---PV---Sniga said:

-snip-
 

Oh, hello there, sweaty Riven market Mafia man.

Came here to do some damage control, ain'tcha?

Who is actually going to argue against data? Semlar or not, who cares. The pragmatics dictates data should and ought to exist regardless of who's doing it, and it's not questionable. It was a burden of DE's because the situation with trading was neglected until they were forced to get involved. Now, you're upset because they agree with Semlar and Tacticalpotato and hide behind the "civil discussion" ploy to cover for an intent to conduct improper trade practices worth literal hundreds of dollars.

Not even the real world performs trades blindly. Your constituency argues for "skill based trading" when in reality you just want to keep the trading environment naive and uneducated so you can continue to scam people. 

You're not fooling anyone. The whole clan is spoiled regardless if it's 1, 2, or 10 people doing it out of a hundred.The practice was tolerated and thus all are guilty.

Edited by Xaxma
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Xaxma said:

Oh, hello there, sweaty Riven market Mafia man.

Came here to do some damage control, ain'tcha?

Who is actually going to argue against data? Semlar or not, who cares. The pragmatics dictates data should and ought to exist regardless of who's doing it, and it's not questionable. It was a burden of DE's because the situation with trading was neglected until they were forced to get involved. Now, you're upset because they agree with Semlar and Tacticalpotato and hide behind the "civil discussion" ploy to cover for an intent to conduct improper trade practices worth literal hundreds of dollars.

Not even the real world performs trades blindly. Your constituency argues for "skill based trading" when in reality you just want to keep the trading environment naive and uneducated so you can continue to scam people. 

You're not fooling anyone. The whole clan is spoiled regardless if it's 1, 2, or 10 people doing it out of a hundred.The practice was tolerated and thus all are guilty.

Hello, person straight from youtube and reddit. 

Yes, I am actually here to control the damage - damage created by misinformed people blindly targeting us without having the right information.

A lot of smart words there, but it seems you're trying to say Semlar should and ought to exist to prevent large sum trades from happening and to keep people better informed on how to price rivens? Correct me if I misunderstood you there. And yeah, I agree. I actually can't wait for the Semlar site to go back up to how it was before. Hopefully even improved now, I am as eager as you are to see the difference and new possibilites. Our goal of preventing RivenHunter from existing worked, and thats the only thing we were ever against.

I don't want to keep the environment naive, I'm glad for Semlar coming back. And I explained before how the trading works for us. You can sell it to me instantly or take a month to find someone who will buy your riven for a bigger sum. Is it a scam if the person doesn't care to wait and wants to sell it to me quickly and just get his plat?

What practice are you talking about? The RivenHunter app? It was out for what, barely two weeks? None of us even knew it existed. Faceless just caught it first and instantly went ahead and reported it. Most, I daresay all the people from Riven Dealers didn't even get to use or maybe even know about the RivenHunter app before it got shut down.

Next. I will keep honestly and calmly answering these till you guys realise how deeply misinformed you are. If you want to talk to me personally, feel free to PM me too and I can keep explaining there. Otherwise we will continue the essay rodeo.

Edited by ---PV---Sniga
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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

Hello, person straight from youtube and reddit. 

Yes, I am actually here to control the damage - damage created by misinformed people blindly targeting us without having the right information.

A lot of smart words there, but it seems you're trying to say Semlar should and ought to exist to prevent large sum trades from happening and to keep people better informed on how to price rivens? Correct me if I misunderstood you there. And yeah, I agree. I actually can't wait for the Semlar site to go back up to how it was before. Hopefully even improved now, I am as eager as you are to see the difference and new possibilites. Our goal of preventing RivenHunter from existing worked, and thats the only thing we were ever against.

I don't want to keep the environment naive, I'm glad for Semlar coming back. And I explained before how the trading works for us. You can sell it to me instantly or take a month to find someone who will buy your riven for a bigger sum. Is it a scam if the person doesn't care to wait and wants to sell it to me quickly and just get his plat?

What practice are you talking about? The RivenHunter app? It was out for what, barely two weeks? None of us even knew it existed. Faceless just caught it first and instantly went ahead and reported it. Most, I daresay all the people from Riven Dealers didn't even get to use or maybe even know about the RivenHunter app before it got shut down.

Next. I will keep honestly and calmly answering these till you guys realise how deeply misinformed you are. If you want to talk to me personally, feel free to PM me too and I can keep explaining there. Otherwise we will continue the essay rodeo.

Yes, we know Riven Hunter was a thing. There's remnants of it on Semlar's Patreon, but that's besides the point. Semlar had good intentions; he's done much good for the community and the fact he's apologised in a long-winded post (Reddit) proves he's the better man here. He owned up to his mistake (that is, working on the paid, Riven Hunter app) and was very mature and humble in his apology.

Faceless on the other hand, regardless of the faked in-game chat log that was posted to reddit a bit ago, had shown his true colors in the discord chat log with Semlar. He is a jerk that thinks he owns the market. His clan even uses a private bot on their discord that works off of Semlar's website that snipes Rivens, yet he claims he wanted to stop Semlar from doing just that. That's hypocrisy, regardless if taking down Semlar would take down that very bot they used.

And we're going to go weeks without a reliable pricing guide for Rivens because of this guy. This should have been handled an entirely different way. I'm sure if the topic of Riven Hunter was leaked to Reddit and there was substantial community backlash, Semlar would have dismantled the project immediately, or at least made it free and available to the public.

And yet, no apology from Faceless. All we got was him giving us a cheeky message before leaving the official Warframe discord. If he ends up posting a legitimate apology I will consider taking him -- and you guys -- seriously.

Edited by Jackal_Off
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On 2019-03-06 at 6:48 PM, Lored said:

Still hoping for some Auction, like in MMOs.

I honestly don't think DE will ever implement an auction house. It would ruin price gougers, and price gougers increase demand for plat, which benefits DE. Not saying DE actually supports price gougers, just saying that implementing AH would hurt plat sales, which probably means we won't be seeing an AH anytime soon. 😞

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

>Our goal of preventing RivenHunter from existing worked, and thats the only thing we were ever against.

>I don't want to keep the environment naive

I don't agree that the app was something he could monetize, but I also don't think it needed to be shut down because the service it provided was something players have been begging for years, which was a convenient way to provide riven price data in an unbiased fashion and thus offer perspective that could keep prices under control. It's not enough if there is simply a statistical medium because said statistics can be manipulated with a large enough of a constituency so as to create a monopoly, which is something that can easily be orchestrated by such a riven mafia.

1 hour ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

I explained before how the trading works for us. You can sell it to me instantly or take a month to find someone who will buy your riven for a bigger sum. Is it a scam if the person doesn't care to wait and wants to sell it to me quickly and just get his plat?

Yes, it is. The trade was initiated by the pressure of a false, artificially created trade environment where greed and monopolizing created unrealistic trade expectations. Many people would obviously prefer to get their real money's worth out of a riven they earned, but the hostility of the nature of trade chat pressures people into giving it up sooner and for far cheaper because the waters are full of sharks such as yourself who simply don't want to give a fair deal, because otherwise they'd spend their time in trade chat all day looking for the one person who would be genuinely interested. This little trade mini-game is just manipulating money, and there are people who actually spend more time sitting here trading than actually playing the game, which is pathetic. This wouldn't happen if we had an auction house.

1 hour ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

Next. I will keep honestly and calmly answering these till you guys realize how deeply misinformed you are. 

You can calmly and honestly admit, with total, undeniable penitence and accountability, that the intent behind censoring data was malicious and motivated by greed which is heralded by the perspective that such a tool would threaten these shark-like practices, which it did and it's wrong. I'm not young. I know about the nature of people and what it takes to motivate people to go after a relatively harmless practice. You're not DE's legal enforcers. It wasn't motivated to enforce the ToS. You're just a scared mafia. I can't be misinformed about that.

1 hour ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

This is a bigger point about us calling others "Insects" and having power over others, but here's a tl;dr - Faceless changed his name to avoid taking unnecessary, false flak. Someone changed his name to Faceless because he is a smartass, afterwards impersonating him and saying all that stupidity. (Bonus meme - he ate the mass report and got banned, not Faceless)

You realize how stupid that sounds right? I had to go back to this just because of how goofy it sounded on second reading. It's about as good of an excuse as the evil twin plot, or the "my brother got on my account" meme. This tells me at the end of the day all I need to know about how your position works. 

And you lost.

Edited by Xaxma
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1 hour ago, Jackal_Off said:

And yet, no apology from Faceless. All we got was him giving us a cheeky message before leaving the official Warframe discord. If he ends up posting a legitimate apology I will consider taking him -- and you guys -- seriously.

I don't know. I feel like that's counter-productive. There isn't a 100% gurantee that anyone and everyone else within their clan even knew what Faceless was doing. Regardless, if Faceless is banned what good would an apology be at this point? "Sorry guys, I'm going back to play the Fortnite" even if he apologized would it be accepted? Highly unlikely.

 

What's more interesting is that I never even heard of Semlar's Riven Trader app until now (for a whopping $5? a mobile app for $5? Really?). If anything, the only person that really broke any rules here was Semlar. Sure, he apologized but he did attempt to make real money off of Warframe. Pretty sure that is against the EULA that DE has put in place.

 

We've seen people get banned that show glitches/exploits on youtube! What gives Semlar a pass? Seriously, I would like to know. If glitching can get you banned (using in-game bugs, exploits) that doesn't involve platinum, then what makes the $5 app so special?

 

Was Faceless a dork? Yeah, maybe. Is being a dork and a jerk against the EULA? Not really. Attempting to profit off of Warframe, an ip Semlar doesn't own? That seems to be a little more of an issue in the long run.

 

Seriously, ask yourself the question: "Does DE need funding for Warframe?" The answer is yes. Does trading rivens for plat break any rules? No. Are there shady riven dealers? Yes. Are they solely relegated to the Riven Traders clan? No. Is attempting to sell warframe products without permission a no-no? Yes.

 

I don't know whom to believe right at the moment, but if only one party was attempting to cash in on a feature of Warframe I would err on the side of caution with the Riven Traders. What if the mobile app was for a codex? A stat guide? A Happy Zephyr app and you try to sell any of those for $5 without permission? Good idea or a bad one?

 

Faceless might be a jerk, but at least we know he's a jerk. Semlar trying to cash in on the Riven Market? Pretty shady to me.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, (PS4)Multi-Melta said:

 

Semlar has had a Patreon up for quite awhile, like many content creators. He already makes money from that. While I disagree with his Riven Hunter app costing money, I don't believe that is much of a blemish on his reputation. He's learned that was a bad idea. I believe he would have backed down if he received enough community backlash.

Edited by Jackal_Off

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1 minute ago, Jackal_Off said:

Semlar has had a Patreon up for quite awhile, like many content creators. He already makes money from that. While I disagree with his Riven Hunter app costing money, I don't believe that is much of a blemish on his reputation. He's learned that was a bad idea. I believe he would have backed down if he received enough community backlash.

Even so, does it mean that everyone in the Riven Traders clan deserve to be raked through the mud? Sure, content creators can put tigether a youtube channel and use their input, like an Amprex guide for example, this is their own words and thoughts and opinions. DE doesn't own the individual. Further more, there isn't a paid gate on youtube. $5 for an app is pretty steep for what this one was going to do. Even if 100 players bought this . . . the earning potential for this app would have virtually no ceiling.

 

Regardless of community backlash, we now have people actively harrassing (nagging, bugging, trash talking etc.) people with 'Riven' in their clan name, when Semlar gets to walk away  relatively unscathed and is a 'victim' of the horrible and awful Riven Traders. Semlar was doing fine with the Patreon, but strolling into deeper woods like this app was clearly a dumb move. I just don't think collectively attacking a group for what a single person did is right nor fair.

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Can I give a idea? What If we made a actual trading house?

 

Like say someone has, a prime system they don't want. They put It in the trading house and set the offer like one of 3 items they desire. Like If the other person has a mod, Blueprint or so on they can trade it right there and both parties get what they want.

 

This would remove the cluster in trade chat and make It easier for people to find what they are looking for. 

 

Simply put, the trade chat does not work because It is covered in spam..If people can get to what they want right when they want It by looking It up..The best prices will get the plat and people can actually trade instead of It just be buying things with plat. Basically, easier management for all.

 

Not saying delete trading,I am saying add something in in maroo's bazaar which is better then people waving hands around asking for offers.

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