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[DE]Rebecca

Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

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Posted (edited)

I sometimes trade and buy rivens myself, I see this as a step in the right direction because it can prevent monopoly in the trading community (which is already happening). It’s sad to see greedy traders ripping off their buyers (new players to be exact) to buy things that are worth wayy less in reality (If the buyer isn’t good at negotiating prices).

 

Edited by DrivaMain

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14 minutes ago, BootScoot said:

While I personally would love to see an auction house style marketplace to be implemented for trading this is a great step in the right direction.

do u mind to explain how auction house works? 

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3 minutes ago, -Bv-Psykiik said:

 

 

i hope you have seen the screenshots from the guy/clan who reported semlar bragging about ... is that consider as harassment or something 

 

Pffttt, all of the riven mafia clan should be banned for economy manipulation. 

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37 minutes ago, Lythandra said:

Put in an auction house please. 

For some reason DE thinks an auction house will decrease Plat sales. I have not bought any plat since I avoid the trade chat. It's a horrible inefficient system that I do not wish to spend time on. Having an nice AH to looks at items to buy would tempt me for sure. 

Auction House are not really that good, take a look at WoW's Auction House, pretty easy to manipulate and control. In my younger days I was bored and all I did was trade. I made a fortune by buying an item in the market and inflate the price. As well as I bought other expensive items, entire stocks and decrease its cost, so I could later on buy them for cheap and turn them into something pricy again. It was all about the profit. Sometimes you gotta lose some coin to make more coin. 

An action house will not really change much, actually, it's gonna make things worse because of this. It'll have to enforce prices in order to prevent it, and by doing so it can get the community upset. 

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just remove rivens 😄
or

give us the option to roll each stat individually!

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1 minute ago, kswong98 said:

just remove rivens 😄
or

give us the option to roll each stat individually!

That will only help you not DE.  

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Rotainegni said:

Auction House are not really that good, take a look at WoW's Auction House, pretty easy to manipulate and control. In my younger days I was bored and all I did was trade. I made a fortune by buying an item in the market and inflate the price. As well as I bought other expensive items, entire stocks and decrease its cost, so I could later on buy them for cheap and turn them into something pricy again.

If DE were to count the daily trade limit into how much you could purchase at a time with an auction house it would somewhat mitigate this problem. It would at least prevent a single individual from causing price inflation.

Personally the way I'd go about doing this is all standard tradables (weapons, prime parts, standard mods and veiled rivens) can be sold at an auction house and all unveiled rivens can be traded in person with at least a basic pricing resource like the proposed API

Edited by BootScoot

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6 minutes ago, -TheNightmare said:

That will only help you not DE.  

and what's your point?

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Posted (edited)

I have a standard practice to not post on forums but I'll make an exception for this.
Imo best case is for DE to make valid information (actual successful trade data) available. And this would be the best type of information to make available

Semlar's bot while welcome, if it only looks at positions sellers or buyers take (WTS riven at X / WTB riven at Y) is far from ideal. Could use many MR0 alt accounts with a macro to repost in trade chat and inflate riven prices.
    Not bashing semlar in any way, he is doing the best with the incomplete information available to him. Is me just saying the best type of information is actual successful trade data, only which DE has the power to access.

Now I suspect the reason why DE hasn't made much efforts to address this community issue is because I suspect they enjoyed the plat sink some players were creating. I suspect that only now after this specific incident and the amount of backlash it has generated has DE's hand been forced. 

 

 

Edited by --Q--Camul
formatting
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1 hour ago, Lored said:

Still hoping for some Auction, like in MMOs.

An auction system has one disadvantage, and that is that high prices will remain high while low prices will remain low, and prices in the middle will typically lower in value. It makes things pretty black/white. Still, wfmarket exists, and so it does prove that there is some efficiency to an auction system. Not quite sure what outweighs what.

 

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Yeah I don't understand. Its a free market. People put a price and then some people are willing to pay it or not. How are you going to enforce a specific price? Are you going to introduce a way to obtain specific rivens for plat from non-player sources? For example, If i want a rubico riven i am beholden to the extremely inflated market price. Which is why I don't own a Rubico riven. @[DE]Rebecca can you clarify a little bit? I'm pretty confused.

Any tool that says a riven is worth X shouldnt be taken seriously anyways. A riven is worth what someone will pay. If a new player falls prey to predatory pricing, thats on them. Do some research and sit in trade chat for a few hours. Due diligence people. You don't just buy something without shopping around.

Yes, it's a free market. That doesn't mean buyers and sellers on a free market should not be informed. I think this theoretical baseline is less about enforcing a starting price and more about revealing an average price that people can then use to make informed decisions. After all, an item is still worth what the customer is willing to pay.

1 hour ago, Valkyr-Umbra said:

How about a cap in trade per plat to discourage exorbitant pricing? I totally agree riven prices are subjective, and I've happily paid high pices for rivens before (and sold stuff for a pretty penny) but 10k+ is objectively too much. IMO a single riven shouldn't sell for more than $200 worth of plat (without discount).

The whole riven system needs to be looked at again, both in terms of trading and rerolling.  This is a nice first step, but if its the end of it, I'll be profoundly disappointed. How about allowing us to lock a single stat from being rerolled for some sort of insane amount of kuva, like 300k? We'd still have to farm a ton, but we wouldn't have to rely purely on RNG.

Also, does this mean the tool semlar had which let us filter rivens posted in trade chat by time, positives/negatives, weapon type, and asking price is gone? This was the closest thing we had to an auction house and I found it to be an excellent convenience. I don't have the time to sit in trade chat 24/7, so using this once every 12 hours was very helpful, it was the closest thing we had to an auction house.

God, no plat cap per trade.

It's a free market. People pay what they are willing to. But the bigger issue on no plat cap is seen when trading multiple high value rivens at once. See, we only have a limited number of trades per day. You could have a cap maybe if that limit to trade was removed. But we all know that was a specific design choice.

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Just now, Revenant0713 said:

Yes, it's a free market. That doesn't mean buyers and sellers on a free market should not be informed. I think this theoretical baseline is less about enforcing a starting price and more about revealing an average price that people can then use to make informed decisions. After all, an item is still worth what the customer is willing to pay.

I agree. Any attempt to obfuscate data is bad. DE shouldnt be shouldering the responsibility on third party sources to provide this information to players, though.

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I didn't visit trade chat in monrths, I knew riven trading is going wild, but what happened this time that it's a hot topic?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I agree. Any attempt to obfuscate data is bad. DE shouldnt be shouldering the responsibility on third party sources to provide this information to players, though.

I kind of get it. See, in a trade there is a seller and a buyer... who are both in reality customers of DE. DE aims for fairness for both parties because it is in their best interest to care for customers to what extent they can. Warframe is after all, their product.

Edited by Revenant0713

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Thank you for the transparency Rebecca. I hope the structure used will forcefully prevent a very small percentage holding the market for ransom. It's infuriating for me sometimes where my standards ended up having my seller be the same ~0.5% of the Trading player base and I either have to grind insane amounts of Platinum to afford something interesting (5,8,9,10,13k Platinum), or I have to spend days only using trade chat in the hopes that I get to someone before a player using a private/public bot got to it. Thankfully I have 35+ good Rivens, but trading skill only goes so far.

This idea proposed sounds good, and time will tell on the effectiveness of the system.

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I don't know what kind of riven manipulation there is going on, but the high end riven traders aren't hoarding rivens that don't contain desirable attributes. They really don't buy rubicos with damage to infest, +ammo and -firerate rivens and try to sell them for absurd amounts, they are scraping semlar/discord/rivenmarket for the multishot/critical chance/critical damage/-zoom ones. 

The "riven traders" do acquire the best rolls, but they also have a tendency to resell them for 2-10x what they paid for them but only if they acquire them on pennies to the dollar (aka trade chat).. They, however, rarely trade within their circle for this reason. 

Here's a pro tip - if someone spams their rivens for the same price or PMO and it goes unsold after a few days, stay away from them. They're just looking for suckers. 

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4 minutes ago, kswong98 said:

and what's your point?

*just remove rivens 😄*

 

dont u know that rivens are good source of income for DE? do you really think people buy plats for mods? 

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2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Thank you for the transparency Rebecca. I hope the structure used will forcefully prevent a very small percentage holding the market for ransom. It's infuriating for me sometimes where my standards ended up having my seller be the same ~0.5% of the Trading player base and I either have to grind insane amounts of Platinum to afford something interesting (5,8,9,10,13k Platinum), or I have to spend days only using trade chat in the hopes that I get to someone before a player using a private/public bot got to it. Thankfully I have 35+ good Rivens, but trading skill only goes so far.

This idea proposed sounds good, and time will tell on the effectiveness of the system.

This is why I never trade in unveiled rivens. Hopefully this is incentive to balance the market so I can start trading again.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FiveN9ne said:

Did we see the same screenshots?? Was it not their clan leader who did all of this and even admitted it? Do private discords with trade tracker bots which people made tons of profit of not exist? What about that screenshot that was circulating with 13 million platinum on the account? Was that gotten through fair trade as well? Come on..

That is exactly the missinformation he is talking about... We got no privat version of the semlar bot. We had one that took the information from semlars website. So the bot died with the bann of semlars bots. That is just one of the things tp got wrong. Roughly 50% of what he said was true but the rest was pure fiction/speculation he lazily copied from the subreddit. I didnt even know wth he was talking about most of the time.

Also it is not fair that he tries to go after a entire clan when one player of it makes a mistake. Aswell as the fact that tp intentionaly ignored semlars request to stop this harassment (he cutted that part out when showing a screenshot of semlars latest website update) which makes no sense since he should be supporting his stance if he wishes to help because senlar propably knows most of this situation and can judge it best of us all!

 

If u want deeper insight into the wrong information spreaded pls read the comment of ---PV---Sniga on page 1 again. 

Edited by Smurfdaddy
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3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Thank you for the transparency Rebecca. I hope the structure used will forcefully prevent a very small percentage holding the market for ransom. It's infuriating for me sometimes where my standards ended up having my seller be the same ~0.5% of the Trading player base and I either have to grind insane amounts of Platinum to afford something interesting (5,8,9,10,13k Platinum), or I have to spend days only using trade chat in the hopes that I get to someone before a player using a private/public bot got to it. Thankfully I have 35+ good Rivens, but trading skill only goes so far.

This idea proposed sounds good, and time will tell on the effectiveness of the system.

Aren't you one of the 9 guys that were in the riven traders clan? The guys behind the whole semlar drama? 
Asking for a friend.

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Just now, -TheNightmare said:

*just remove rivens 😄*

 

dont u know that rivens are good source of income for DE? do you really think people buy plats for mods? 

If you think about it, if all weapons had only 1-3 slots and all mods were rivens with RNG stats, the market would be more balanced than it currently is with 8 slots, 1 riven per weapon and 1 sea of mods with set stats, only 10% of which see any use.

 

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+

Hope im wrong though, but i can't really dismiss the possibility of RMT happening. I mean, sure platinum can't buy you tennogen stuff but it sure can buy most of what warframe market/trade tab can offer. AFAIK there are no items in warframe, that can be bought in platinum, that costs above 1k, and there aren't really limitations on how much plat we can place for a single ammo max mod or anything else, right? All it takes is a conversation outside warframe and a leap of faith.

Just my 2cents as i've been through an awful lot of MMORPGs since 2000 (played on private servers aswell 🙂 ), and usually on official servers some groups will try and manipulate in game currency.

I really do hope im wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Revenant0713 said:

If you think about it, if all weapons had only 1-3 slots and all mods were rivens with RNG stats, the market would be more balanced than it currently is with 8 slots, 1 riven per weapon and 1 sea of mods with set stats, only 10% of which see any use.

 

1 of tactical potato video DE said that they are working on 1 riven per weapon. they are already working on upcoming updates so we just need to need. 

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1 minute ago, Smurfdaddy said:

That is exactly the missinformation he is talking about... We got no privat version of the semlar bot. We had one that took the information from semlars website. So the bot died with the bann of semlars bots. That is just one of the things tp got wrong. Roughly 50% of what he said was true but the rest was pure fiction/speculation he lazily copied from the subreddit. I didnt even know wth he was talking about most of the time.

Also it is not fair that he tries to go after a entire clan when one player of it makes a mistake. Aswell as the fact that tp intentionaly ignored semlars request to stop this harassment (he cutted that part out when showing a screenshot of semlars latest website update) which makes no sense since he should be supporting his stance if he wishes to help because he propably knows most of this situation and can judge it best of us all!

Fair enough. Tell me this then. Were you all unaware of your clan leader's activity or intentions? I somehow find that hard to believe. Also, why push for that ban NOW? The bot has existed for some time and if you were benefiting from it too for that time, what has changed? Why the sudden desire to block the public information if you were taking advantage of it too, isn't that hypocritical? I've also heard some people say there are at least a few discord "private riven dealing" servers. Even so, like a guy on the 2nd page said collusion or association. There is no way nobody knew what was happening, it's kind of too big of a coincidence imo.

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