Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

[keTch-uP]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Simply put, we will be trying out providing aggregated actual Riven trade value data for toolmakers to use. No more basing trades off of what people are posting in trade chat as asking prices, toolmakers will have access to per-platform actual Trade values.

While this is a good start, it only covers a part of the current problem. Knowing the price is one thing, availability is the other. Semlar's tracker was already basically an auction house where you could PM the seller as soon as his tracker saw the posted tradechat message(or later, if the seller still had the Riven and was online). This was also the reason why the tracker got reported in the first place from what I've understood. While there are already sites where you can list your Rivens with stats and prices, a lot of players probably don't know about them and usually have to sign up to even use them. If this was all done ingame with a real auction house, which could also show the aforementioned aggregated Riven trade value data, it would be a much better option for both the seller and the buyer.

[akira_him]

I don't know if anyone of you in DE played SEGA's PSO2, they have a system called "My Shop", this is different to an auction house because there is no actual auction involved

basically you list stuffs that you want to sell, give them a price and then the system will automatically do the rest, letting other players to search for the said item (and listing all the offers from other players selling the same item) and directly purchase it, even the seller is not online, I think it is time for DE to look into it

 

[Revenant0713]

10 minutes ago, Smurfdaddy said:

That is exactly the missinformation he is talking about... We got no privat version of the semlar bot. We had one that took the information from semlars website. So the bot died with the bann of semlars bots. That is just one of the things tp got wrong. Roughly 50% of what he said was true but the rest was pure fiction/speculation he lazily copied from the subreddit. I didnt even know wth he was talking about most of the time.

Also it is not fair that he tries to go after a entire clan when one player of it makes a mistake. Aswell as the fact that tp intentionaly ignored semlars request to stop this harassment (he cutted that part out when showing a screenshot of semlars latest website update) which makes no sense since he should be supporting his stance if he wishes to help because senlar propably knows most of this situation and can judge it best of us all!

Making a YouTube video isn't really harassment. He blurred the names out as well. That said, yeah there isn't evidence the ENTIRE clan was that corrupt.

I will say though... making a "mistake" is to be wrong ABOUT something. When you do something that is just plain wrong, that is not a mistake, that is an offense.

[Truma7465]

First of all, thanks for the official reply about this issue Rebb. Very glad that things are looking well for Semlar and hope it will be back online with allowance for the tracking bots because from what I see the tracking bots didn't cause any harm, only helped many many players!

I personally don't have any problem with the trade chat being a free market where riven prices are determined by seller and buyer. It's indeed a bit disgusting seeing people selling a lets say Rubico riven +cc +cd for 4k-5k while average price for a +cc +cd rubico is around 1.8k-2,7k and so on. I strongly support the idea of an in game auction house which would help regulate the prices, but people have to understand that rivens don't have a fixed price and that that price goes up depending on the demand. Especially god tier rivens which have a insanely insanely low chance to be rolled (example +cc +cd +ms -zoom rubico which goes for 15-35k depending on the range of stats and buyer-seller). This is what free market is, if someone is willing to pay something so much, then whats the problem with that?

Hope the shameless people that are trying to manipulate the riven market will get what they deserve, but going after the whole clan like that is simply such a low move from the WF community.

[kswong98]

13 minutes ago, -TheNightmare said:

*just remove rivens 😄*

 

dont u know that rivens are good source of income for DE? do you really think people buy plats for mods? 

oh no that's the first time i'd heard that i'm so surprised

[Smurfdaddy]

6 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

Fair enough. Tell me this then. Were you all unaware of your clan leader's activity or intentions? I somehow find that hard to believe. Also, why push for that ban NOW? The bot has existed for some time and if you were benefiting from it too for that time, what has changed? Why the sudden desire to block the public information if you were taking advantage of it too, isn't that hypocritical? I've also heard some people say there are at least a few discord "private riven dealing" servers. Even so, like a guy on the 2nd page said collusion or association. There is no way nobody knew what was happening, it's kind of too big of a coincidence imo.

Read the comment on page 1 again (it got edited) and u will get most of it 🙂

I can only talk for myself but I found out that semlar was down becaues I was trying to use his service.

[Revenant0713]

2 minutes ago, Truma7465 said:

Hope the shameless people that are trying to manipulate the riven market will get what they deserve, but going after the whole clan like that is simply such a low move from the WF community.

When people mess up, there will always be some level of backlash before any plug can stop the leak. It's to be expected.

[Voltage]

5 hours ago, Void-Gunslinger said:

Aren't you one of the 9 guys that were in the riven traders clan? The guys behind the whole semlar drama? 
Asking for a friend.

No, I'm not.

[ReaverKane]

1 hour ago, Lythandra said:

Put in an auction house please. 

For some reason DE thinks an auction house will decrease Plat sales. I have not bought any plat since I avoid the trade chat. It's a horrible inefficient system that I do not wish to spend time on. Having an nice AH to looks at items to buy would tempt me for sure. 

This, i mean, it's the obvious solution... In-game auction house.

[Smurfdaddy]

1 hour ago, Revenant0713 said:

Making a YouTube video isn't really harassment. He blurred the names out as well. That said, yeah there isn't evidence the ENTIRE clan was that corrupt.

I will say though... making a "mistake" is to be wrong ABOUT something. When you do something that is just plain wrong, that is not a mistake, that is an offense.

Unfortunaly contrary to what tp said in the comments of his video we still got the same clan name and due that it is easy to figure out who is part of the clan and there was a influx in haressment since the video for all of us. It wasn't direct harassment from him but he enabled it intentionaly because there was no good reason for putting the clan-name out there other then starting a witchhunt.

[SilverBones]

I want to remind people here to keep it civil.

This is not a place to attack other players, nor to discuss the hypotheticals behind the initial issue. There have been some questions about how this system will be implemented, and given the recent nature of this event, there are no solid answers to give you. There are a lot of moving parts, and those have to be discussed and implemented when a decision is made, but for now, we are listening. There have been some suggestions about what you would like to see, and that is a good discussion.

Let's keep this discussion moving forward as to how we can improve the system and your thoughts on what you want to see.

[dolphood]

Glad to see everything worked out. Shoutout to semlar.

[FiveN9ne]

1 hour ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

~snip

 

Thank you for clarifying. I still believe there should have been a better way of resolving this as well given that nobody was even aware of the Riven Hunter app.

[KangarooCornchips]

Throwing my vote in for an Auction House to be implemented.

[Xolgys]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb -TheNightmare:

*just remove rivens 😄*

 

dont u know that rivens are good source of income for DE? do you really think people buy plats for mods? 

RNG is always a good motivation if it comes to loot and since warframe is a looter shooter its logic to have that. rivens wont be removed and thats good. if someone doesnt like rivens just ignore that part, noone is forced.

[VexMain]

7 minutes ago, BootScoot said:

If DE were to count the daily trade limit into how much you could purchase at a time with an auction house it would somewhat mitigate this problem. It would at least prevent a single individual from causing price inflation.

Personally the way I'd go about doing this is all standard tradables (weapons, prime parts, standard mods and veiled rivens) can be sold at an auction house and all unveiled rivens can be traded in person with at least a basic pricing resource like the proposed API

Oh no, that's not how it works. To prevent from getting caught in WoW, I hate other accounts and used several toons.  Later on I founded a guild with some people from my school and I have them work on my strategy, so we could get rich. I was a lowly lvl 55 at the time while everyone else was 70. I had a fortune that none of them could ever dream off, which it was funny. Haha. But yeah, the system I used in WoW made me the richest person in the server, later on made my guild the richest, and we controlled the game. 

Even with the current system set for trading is no problem to pull a similar strategy. This is an old school strategy btw, dunno how things are now in WoW since I left since Cataclysm, but I bet it got more refined. 

[Transformau5]

2 hours ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

There is no ego trip, although I'll admit Faceless could've handled the chat with Semlar better, but the fact is he tried contacting him normally beforehand, the fact that this went to DE is just Semlars fault.

There is no ego trip, although I'll admit the killer could've handled the mugging attempt better, but the fact is he tried asking for money nicely beforehand, the fact that this went to the police is just the victim's fault.

A person's refusal to take part in a wrongdoing does not warrant another wrongdoing being performed against them. Reporting Semlar for keeping a free, helpful mod cannot be justified by any means. Regardless of previous attempts to solve this another way, nothing warranted this kind of outrageous action.

[Dalac00]

An in-game riven trade system would be perfect. Anyway, it will be better than using third party (like riven.market or r/wartrade) or trade chat.

For those who are thinking there will be Riven Mafia who will place rivens at an exorbitant amount of plat just to mess up the drive bot data, that is a marketing strategy used in other MMOs also. Like lifting or resetting the market.

[KelvinM6]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

No more basing trades off of what people are posting in trade chat as asking prices, toolmakers will have access to per-platform actual Trade values.

Das it gurl

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Lythandra said:

Put in an auction house please. 

For some reason DE thinks an auction house will decrease Plat sales. I have not bought any plat since I avoid the trade chat. It's a horrible inefficient system that I do not wish to spend time on. Having an nice AH to looks at items to buy would tempt me for sure. 

Auction houses destroy game economies, this can be easily observed in other games with auction houses like D&D Online, Spiral Knights, and Diablo 3. In a game economy you get spike demand from collector players. Those that value their time more than their premium currency and thus play less than other players but do often build up significant premium currency buying power and thus the early demand for any item will usually come from these players over the average. That results in stuff like a first day prime or low drop rate and high rarity item to have great demand within the first bit where the collectors are trying to get sets. The actual supply of items isn't as important to the conversation since the initial highs are not based on supply+demand but just a bid against other collectors throwing purchase power around. We then go to the trader, who wants to buy low and sell high; they have interest in offering an outlet for an item or trade worthy item at below what they want to sell it for, but are gambling on the average Joe or collector demand still existing for when they want to sell. The average Joe just wants to spend as little on their trades as possible, but wants a standardized value either something they view as reasonable or less than or equal to some average which is often out of the information level of an average player without observing trade chat themselves.

DE has filters usable in the chats, and players can observe the trends if they care to, while trade websites have given a sense of a standard price that is so often the opposite of a Free market. There is a real part free markets where the person with the good has their desired price, and the buyer their own, in a free market there is however no set price or solid expectation of a given price past what the buyer and seller can agree on per a case by case basis. This isn't the kind of system some players want, but doesn't prioritize any particular group more than another and allows the prices to be fluid based on the active participants in trade. I can understand why someone might want bots out of the discussion in this atmosphere and why some might want them, but it can be a precarious balance to pull off between what one thinks is a system that favors 'scammers' and one that stagnates and lowers value of rewards.

[BriarBlack]

9 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

RNG is always a good motivation if it comes to loot and since warframe is a looter shooter its logic to have that. rivens wont be removed and thats good. if someone doesnt like rivens just ignore that part, noone is forced.

This line never ceases to frustrate me. In what other medium are fans/critics silenced with this rebuttal?

If you don't like parts of the movie just ignore those parts. If you don't like parts of a novel just ignore those parts.

No, they shouldn't just ignore those parts, and you should really stop trying to shut them up because it reflects extremely poorly on you.

[Xolgys]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb ---PV---Sniga:

[...]

 

thanks for clarifying. its hard for outsiders to judge such a situation anyway so i think everyone should just calm down and exactly this is the reason why a mob is never a good thing and hardly ever does justice's work.

ofc, im not trying to say whos wrong or right and i do believe more transparency in terms of riven values for trading is a good thing, if its done right without any manipulative intent and function since riven prices are exploding and thats not just because of inflation. nothing justifies 10k+ rubico riven prices and thats not a matter of inflation. other, arguably better rivens for hidden gems go for a joke of a price compared but ->hype price OP i guess. if people are only keeping themselves motivated with trade as the core then i can see why this matter could be a bit worrying for those but on the other hand it was a matter of time until something popped up that triggered DE to work on the silly riven prices circling around right now.

dont get me wrong, i love rivens and i think its totally fine to have a free market where people who love trading can do just that but if prices grow this hard, even if its plat income for DE i think a line has to be drawn and that point is reached i guess. its a bit unfortunate that this situation has become kind of complicated.

i dont know whats really going on since im not involved so i wont judge anyone, neither Faceless nor anyone else from RD and in my opinion everyone else whos not involved should really calm down. people are so quick to judge and hype without being involved which mostly makes a situation only much worse than it is, needlessly too.

 

[Redspace0095]

personally, i think the RNG nature of the Riven should go away. Have the 3 random stats per Riven, but have the stat value fixed. If nothing else, this should help on the database side and allow more wiggle room towards giving players more riven storage.

[0_The_F00l]

Hello ,

I am not a frequent Trader but this seems like a good way for tool makers to provide better details and comparisons.

 

But i have a query:

Why is there still no ingame Auction house?

i understand making things very easy will marginally reduce potential plat sales.

however , what if you make a % commission system?

Explanation:

Keep regular Trade Chat going as it is for those that wish to have direct interactions,

But at the same time make an auction house but have minimum price set at some 20 to 50p (the one who places item still decides its value), and 5 to 10 % of value asked by seller (auction house only trades in plat , no bartering allowed) as a fixed value,

no names are shared only the stats or quantity of items,

player can only have 5 (pick a number you think is suitable) items in the auction at any time.

and everything is anonymous no names of players are made available. so you cant just place something and have a random guy message and say "hey how about i give you this instead?", neither party knows who the buyer or seller is.

auction will automatically end after 24 hours (let player decide how long he wants to keep it in auction house?), seller will always walk away with the minimum price he quoted (minus the commission of 5 to 10%) and half of the extra value, other half is again kept by the auction house. (assuming someone actually bought the thing)

So the plat will still change hands but there will always be some reduction of plat that will give people a reason to buy more plat.

 

seller gets plat , buyer gets loot (that he is willing to pay for) , DE gets a means to keep plat purchases going.

People asking ridiculous values will automatically be ignored,

regular items will get standardized,

People with a life can just put their stuff for sale and collect without direct involvement.

 

so its a fair plat sink (at least according to me with my limited knowledge of economics) and everyone gets what they want,

[Dalac00]

4 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Auction houses destroy game economies, this can be easily observed in other games with auction houses like D&D Online, Spiral Knights, and Diablo 3.

I played WoW (World of Warcraft) and PoE (Path of Exile). WoW's auction house is mandatory for making gold. You don't just have to price an item with 1 gold lower than the last guy who posted the same item. That's why there is an Add-on for statistics with profitable / non-profitable to invest, average sales in a week about every item, resetting the market risk etc... It's not simple, so the ones interested in marketing are doing LOTS of gold and the ones who still need the gold, but they don't have this financial spirit have to pay real money for lots of gold. Balanced for both type of players (except the poor one I guess... I was one of those who was permanently selling things). In PoE the AH system is not implemented in-game, but they made an official site for it. The PoE's economy was never destroyed, yet they used the AH system for a long time.