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[DE]Rebecca

Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

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Here's a suggestion; we already have an "auction house", it is called warframe.market. How about DE integrates this site directly into the game?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

Regardless of who was in the right in the instigating event, this is a good thing that will hopefully keep prices low and fight against people getting unknowingly scammed.

 

exactly that.

i do not even care who is wrong or right, to be frank.

to a degree, i am glad it happened, coz it got people's and dev's attention too.

so, now, something will be done to observe the whole market, items, prices and all that.

ergo, it will be keeping the items under a logical price and not let people be scummed and ripped off.

Edited by No1Eye

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just make warframe.market and riven.market official and integrate them into the damn game... i think the owners of those sites will be happy enough in seeing their sites made official ingame.... 

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Market = endless fraud.

One only needs to look at steam for examples of that.

As for values, the items in steam used to have "value", now they are all pretty close to trash levels.

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4 hours ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

The screenshot the he keeps showing is the Riven Hunter app that you have to buy, not the Riven Dealers discord.. And again, RD discord does have their bot, but it works off of Semlar, so they don't have the bot either..

 

So basically semlar was selling selling riven for 5$(Riven hunter app). And according to TOS its RMT so they banned semlar. wow

and semlar just showed us chatlogs but nothing about RIVEN HUNTER APP (5$) .  damn

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You are constantly deleting Auction House Posts but we need a good Trading System instead of this Blasphemy. 

I really dont wanna waste hours for selling/buying stuff. Simply put plat tax for each buy/sell and its a win/win situation for every one.

You will be able to track every transaction and prevent shady mafia whatsever.

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One point of feedback: I feel like it would be useful if the new data could detect patterns in arranged phony trades. The fact that it's based on actually completed trades makes it way harder to fake offers, but it's still possible to influence the market artificially and I assume DE is on it, but just in case. 

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Also @[DE]Rebecca this might be a good time to audit platinum transactions from high-value riven traders. I have a feeling you'll find that all this effort in the riven market is leading to someone outside DE pocketing cash. 

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Posted (edited)

sorry but i honestly think if we didn't have some form of drama of every flavor every month i think we would of had content coming out faster.

Edited by maddragonmaster

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This sounds like a great idea for riven trading but I hope if this goes in a way that DE wants it to that hopefully this may give us hope for some sort of system like that for all trades. I hope I’m not the only one(PS4) that finds it to be very inconvenient to use resources outside of the actual game sometimes to figure out prices for things to trade but only time will tell.

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i still don't understand how someone willingly pays 1k plat for a riven....has to confirm that trade....then turns around and complains they paid too much. if you don't like a free trade bartering system, then don't participate.

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1 minute ago, jnuh said:

i still don't understand how someone willingly pays 1k plat for a riven....has to confirm that trade....then turns around and complains they paid too much. if you don't like a free trade bartering system, then don't participate.

human nature

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1 minute ago, jnuh said:

i still don't understand how someone willingly pays 1k plat for a riven....has to confirm that trade....then turns around and complains they paid too much. if you don't like a free trade bartering system, then don't participate.

i don't understand it either. though i know how a bitter trade can happen. like the drop rate for that last prime part that is starting to test your patience to the point you give up and do some trading for plat and trading for that drop.

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Posted (edited)

Frankly, I'm not elbows-deep into trading (especially rivens), I probably never will be, but granting access to this info, which can then be parsed by community analysis tools, helps people make informed decisions during their trades. Scams are less likely to happen and keeps the trade on a fair, level field.

Huge kudos. 🙂

Edited by Aldrr
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1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

i don't understand it either. though i know how a bitter trade can happen. like the drop rate for that last prime part that is starting to test your patience to the point you give up and do some trading for plat and trading for that drop.

i definitely understand the scenario you've brought up, but once again, that's on them, not the trader.

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2 minutes ago, jnuh said:

i definitely understand the scenario you've brought up, but once again, that's on them, not the trader.

well it is more of the drop rate kind of issue with the scenario i played out.

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4 hours ago, Valkyr-Umbra said:

How about a cap in trade per plat to discourage exorbitant pricing? I totally agree riven prices are subjective, and I've happily paid high pices for rivens before (and sold stuff for a pretty penny) but 10k+ is objectively too much. IMO a single riven shouldn't sell for more than $200 worth of plat (without discount).

The desired effect is not what you would achieve.

You just force people to give the plat over multiple trades.

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Simply put, we will be trying out providing aggregated actual Riven trade value data for toolmakers to use. No more basing trades off of what people are posting in trade chat as asking prices, toolmakers will have access to per-platform actual Trade values.

This is not at all what I wanted to hear. I was hoping that the mess which is tool-assisted tradechat sniping was finally going to be over.
Depending on what kind of data you're reffering to. The direct lifting from individual tradechat entries is all I'm worried about.

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are going to try doing this because we think it will allow fairer trading to occur with a standard baseline. Because Rivens vary in stats, we expect subjective value discussions to still take place.

Trading rivens through third party sites isn't going to be fair. Tradechat is fair, because it leaves anyone with the game installed an equally fair shot depending on how much you're on the game.
If succes is based on extensive use of tools, the people who are going to be more succesful are the ones who like using the tools more.
And when those tools are made by players they end up feeling taylored to a specific subset of the playerbase.

@[DE]Rebecca Have you guys considered making a riven-specific solution yourselves? Either browserbased or ingame.
The amount of work could be reduced significantly by basing it on existing sollutions. 
Think about the trading post if you could link rivens directly onto the forums.
Or a tradechat dedicated for rivens with a longer cooldown.

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Simply put, we will be trying out providing aggregated actual Riven trade value data for toolmakers to use. No more basing trades off of what people are posting in trade chat as asking prices, toolmakers will have access to per-platform actual Trade values.

 

Why 3rd party tools instead of making price history data available in your own game client? 

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5 hours ago, KIREEK said:

huh, you do realize this is mostly pointless, knowing values still doesn't stop players from making the same question that happens in pretty much all trades, they ask "how much?"

The seller then specifies a price and the buyer sees if the budget they have is whitin range. So data on it almost irrelevant, you still need to ask and talk to the seller itself.

Going in to a trade with mentalities and statements such as:

  • "price is X"
  • "you are selling  it to cheap"
  • "you are selling for a value way to high"
  • "your budget is way to high, you shouldn't be buying X item for that much"

These are directly linked with poor trading conduct, even if you have data, you still need to chat with the player, you cannot go out of your way and decide how much someone else should spend on rivens, i'm in charge of my own game and i decide how much i should spend on a specific item, my sugestion is for other players to get this idea straight, to decide on your own, your budgets and your prices and if a trade is good or not for you. Again deciding on your own on your own trades, not the players next to you.

I understand you're trying to fix an issue with botting being used by only some players, but there are thousands of players with dozzens of rivens each, they can't monopolize the market, because many players already do their own decisions, sure they might have been exploiting the nature of the "god rivens" and using bots to quickly nail a good profit, but i don't believe you will be changing much, profit can still be made.

My sugestion is to invest resources into black market dealers, because when high amounts of platinum and primed chamber are involved, there is an oddly coincidence with the black market and nuked accounts, but that's me.

All they would need to do to frick up scammers is to add a little line to every riven what says "Sells for avarage x plat".

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17 minutes ago, JCBeastie said:

Does the team regret launching the damn things yet?

Again I will say, there is nothing wrong with the rivens themselves. It is us that has made this weird market as to what is expensive and what is not. I enjoy rivens, I like trying different combinations, but I feel some people take it a lot more seriously than what it's supposed to.

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8 minutes ago, beol said:

 

Why 3rd party tools instead of making price history data available in your own game client? 

I'm hoping this is a first step change. Making the data available through API or some stats endpoint will also allow DE to build something more complex in the future. Its possible that their current backlog of work is already planned for the year and adding anything more complex than a endpoint is entirely out of scope and beyond their existing resource allocation.

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1 hour ago, LegendaryNeurotoxin said:

Also @[DE]Rebecca this might be a good time to audit platinum transactions from high-value riven traders. I have a feeling you'll find that all this effort in the riven market is leading to someone outside DE pocketing cash. 

this is exactly whats happening.

seller: hey join my discord we can talk prices

player: hi

seller: so umm ya, just put 500 bucks into this paypal account and you can buy it for 1000 plat

player: ummm

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Posted (edited)

And let me give you a breakdown of this list @--PV--Sniga 

  •  Shadowy Riven Mafia - None of us are hiding anything though, everyone knows each other.

That's exactly what we all mean when we accuse you of hiding something: you all know each other but nobody else does outside the mafia.

  • We haven't cornered the market, in fact, Riven Dealers only control the top 1% of the Riven market.

I question how you arrived at 1% of the riven market. Where are your numbers? Even if you *did* have numbers, this certainly sounds manipulative: trash and undesirable rivens won't obviously be controlled. We're concerned about decent+ rivens most players can afford that can bolster their weapons.

  • Are you ripping someone off if he is willing to pay the price for your riven, could be argumented.

Actually, yes. If you're hoarding all the good rivens (or the vast majority), and the player very much wants said rivens, how on earth are they going to get it without paying up? They don't have a choice. They've amassed that much plat, and there's no justifiable price being sold except overpriced ones sold by...the mafia.

  • Someone changed his name to Faceless because he is a smartass, afterwards impersonating him and saying all that stupidity. (Bonus meme - he ate the mass report and got banned, not Faceless)

That chat screenshot was already pretty self explanatory, even if "civil". 

  • Riven Dealers discord bot works off of Semlar.. their bot is down too.
    Faceless didn't report the tracking acounts, he reported the new Service Semlar offers, which is the Riven Hunter app for 5$ that gives you live 24/7 surveilance over all trade chats and all regions - this would destroy the riven market. DE took it upon themselves to ban the tracking accounts.

This is the only point you've made that I agree with. A bot to help snipe rivens is not in the interest of most WF players. Shutting that bot down would probably have been fort he best even if semlar had honest intentions.

  • Also, I don't think Semlar helps players to not get ripped off, actually the opposite as Riven Dealers can search for very niche and expensive rivens that rarely anyone understands the value of.

Semlar's website isn't perfect: it takes usually-overpriced trade chat screenshots and lists them, when most trades are usually lower after haggling. However, you cannot say "nobody understands the value of" because the fact of the matter is, a riven is worthless until someone comes around and rigorously tests and theorycrafts the item for it's best and most consistent results and formulate the best riven for it. Anyone can understand this, not just you pretentious "riven traders clan". Sounds like you really don't think that "None of us think we own the trading game.."

  • Riven Dealers discord bot works off of Semlar.. their bot is down too.

Fair statement. Cannot independently verify but sounds fair.

  • Faceless did treat it a bit weirdly, but I don't recall saying he runs it or owns anything.

Irrelevant. Our gripe is your trading group manipulating the market. Not just Faceless.

  • Semlar didn't even understand what he had actually made - he assumed the Riven Hunter app would help acquiring rivens, but what it would actually do is give massive power to those who would know how to use it and paid him for it, allowing to completely monopolize and destroy the market.

As detailed above, fair assessment. A bot created that could potentially help snipe rivens while everyone is working or asleep is unfair. (I'd imagine you only raised your voices because it threatened your group anyways).

  • The screenshot the he keeps showing is the Riven Hunter app that you have to buy, not the Riven Dealers discord.. And again, RD discord does have their bot, but it works off of Semlar, so they don't have the bot either..

Some of them definitely look like screenshots taken from discord. But I can't say much from here.

  • Riven dealers hold the majority of the rivens in-game, obviously, with our unlimited 90 slots..

Either you're seriously trying very hard to mislead us, or you're plain not thinking. What do you think extra accounts are made for? All you'd need to do is store a bunch of rivens in secondhand account(s). 90 rivens per account per member per clan. Now ain't that something? You aren't fooling anyone.

  • Prices don't skyrocket because of Riven Traders, they skyrocket because the platinum amount in the game is rising due to a massive influx of new players, pretty sure that's simple economics?

Massive new influx of players spending plat on only decent rivens, and the game of simple economics where there's suddenly more plat isn't a bad counter, but they don't skyrocket from 3k to 10k in a matter of a few months. That's ridiculous. Something is going on. (De Beers diamond ring a bell, anyone?)

Edited by TheAtrocity
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