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[DE]Rebecca

Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

All they would need to do to frick up scammers is to add a little line to every riven what says "Sells for avarage x plat".

You must be carefull with the words you use, otherwise you're intentionally calling another player and telling him that he is violating the rules.

Selling something above average (any average) isn't scaming, this is because scaming such as "snipetron vandal is unobtainable in the game, it's an exclusive weapon" is actually a banable offense

If whatever a player is doing is whithin the rules, it cannot be reported and so it's not a scam

I have fix prices for prime gear that follows a 50pl x the number of components in the set and i sell indivitual components as if they are full sets, for example i sell all prime warframes for 200 pl, the players then accept or decline, if you call a seller a scammer for specifing a price that was asked by the buyer, you are directly accusing the player of breaking the rules and like such you need to back it up.

Edited by KIREEK

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Posted (edited)

The price for good rivens is getting ridiculous. I know many rivens that were traded at ~50k-450k pl and can not believe they were just all fair trade only for the value of the riven itself. Most trades that go over 1k pl in value contain rivens. I’ve been thinking, What about rising trade tax exponentially? E.g., per trade, 1-1000 pl has 500 credits per pl, 1001-5000 pl has 1000 credits per pl, 5001-10000 pl has 2000 credits per pl, and 10001-15000 has 4000 credits per pl, etc. basically every 5000 pl will double the trade tax than before. Would this discourage player to trade huge amount of platinum per trade or would this encourage them to turn to RMT?

I know the price should be up to seller and buyer themselves. But if you think that a riven worth more than 20k pl and actually traded at that price is completely normal and common, we are not the same kind of players. 

Edit:

There are indeed more platin inflows during the last few months. We did not see others tradables price rising but only rivens. This is some weird kind of "targeted inflation". It would be nice if there is a more efficient way to recycle the platin back to the market. 

I also propose (ir)regular riven disposition adjustments. So many weapons are out there with 5 dispositions while nobody cares to use them at all. Also so many weapons got their dispositions lowered over and over again yet they are still super popular. What about remove the current disposition range and just allow indefinite adjustments? If Hind has +1000% dmg it might also become useful? Adjust based on the use rate so that more weapons will get their love?

Edited by wachacreate
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Glad to see this happen @[DE]Rebecca Having been a vet of quite a few other MMO's, and seeing similar groups like this so-called Mafia, its good to see finally some pushback against these Grifters. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

how about fix the root of the problem with the ridiculously heavy RNG based riven stats? rivens get sold for thousands because they are supposed god rolls (or close) that have a 1 in a million chance of being rolled. nobody wants to waste their life trying to roll the specific riven they want for a specific weapon so a lot of ppl ending trading for it instead, outsourcing the riven rolling to the rest of the playerbase.

solution:

-add stat locking

-maybe add a way to choose stats by sacrificing a mod with the stat we want and merging it with the riven. eg. if i want +melee dmg, i have to buy and level up another primed pressurepoint to fuse it with the riven.

-riven disposition needs to be more closely linked to weapon stats/MR. dont give 5 dispo rivens to already powerful weapons.

 

Edited by Ragingwasabi
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, KIREEK said:

huh, you do realize this is mostly pointless, knowing values still doesn't stop players from making the same question that happens in pretty much all trades, they ask "how much?"

The seller then specifies a price and the buyer sees if the budget they have is whitin range. So data on it almost irrelevant, you still need to ask and talk to the seller itself.

Going in to a trade with mentalities and statements such as:

  • "price is X"
  • "you are selling  it to cheap"
  • "you are selling for a value way to high"
  • "your budget is way to high, you shouldn't be buying X item for that much"

These are directly linked with poor trading conduct, even if you have data, you still need to chat with the player, you cannot go out of your way and decide how much someone else should spend on rivens, i'm in charge of my own game and i decide how much i should spend on a specific item, my sugestion is for other players to get this idea straight, to decide on your own, your budgets and your prices and if a trade is good or not for you. Again deciding on your own on your own trades, not the players next to you.

I understand you're trying to fix an issue with botting being used by only some players, but there are thousands of players with dozzens of rivens each, they can't monopolize the market, because many players already do their own decisions, sure they might have been exploiting the nature of the "god rivens" and using bots to quickly nail a good profit, but i don't believe you will be changing much, profit can still be made.

My sugestion is to invest resources into black market dealers, because when high amounts of platinum and primed chamber are involved, there is an oddly coincidence with the black market and nuked accounts, but that's me.

The whole point of the original tracker and now this new data stuff is to stop people from ripping off newbies. 

If the majority of people sell a sniper riven at say, 800p then most people will now be able to see that and won't ever buy from players selling higher. 

This means the people that try sell at insane prices will never sell and will be forced to lower their price, thus stabilizing the market. 

This is really good and I can't wait tbh

Edited by Arniox
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Right now a lot is going on with Riven Trading discussions. Without getting into personal details, we are reviewing what took place. 

Why should this be personal...... this should be cut and dry you should have had a policy in place to handle this when it rose to the surface. But you did not, because you left trade chat alone to its own devices, even after YEARS of people telling you there were problems. This like your moderation issue, is DE facing the consequence for not being proactive in solving the problems presenting themselves in the community. Be proactive to problems, not reactive.

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Simply put, we will be trying out providing aggregated actual Riven trade value data for toolmakers to use. No more basing trades off of what people are posting in trade chat as asking prices, toolmakers will have access to per-platform actual Trade values. 

While this is nice, and partly mitigates the issue, without solving the core problem that made it occur, it raises the Question, What actual trade values?   This "actual trade value" needs a definition, as the value that is taken directly from trade chat seemingly is the same value, but without clarification, it's unclear what the distinction is.

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

When the data is set up we will post links and explain the update cadence / data, then toolmakers can either start or continue to provide Riven trade analysis for players. Our team has started putting everything together, I'm hoping we'll have our first release in a couple of weeks.

We are going to try doing this because we think it will allow fairer trading to occur with a standard baseline. Because Rivens vary in stats, we expect subjective value discussions to still take place.

These statements make it seem like you are going to fix the market with the stats you provide vs. letting the price organically be set by the players (even if the prices get inflated by the in-game trade mafia), this needs clarification.

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It's worth noting that we handled this matter privately over the past two days. However in that time, there have been some instances of very mob-justice practices taking place that are below the honor of the Tenno. We all lift together - reports can be sent in to support where appropriate.

1

Noting that there has been a mafia-style (mob-justice) entity in relation to what is going on, denotes that you see the problem, but are not willing to do much about, because apparently scolding the community based on the honor system, will be a sufficient deterrent to this behavior in the future. You need to actually take action, not sit there and be a guest to potential exploitative behavior on display here. This is YOUR trade market DE, Make it so WE can't use it to EXPLOIT EACH OTHER.

Edited by Darkvramp
editied the 3rd response to seem less accusitory
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6 hours ago, Lythandra said:

Put in an auction house please. 

For some reason DE thinks an auction house will decrease Plat sales. I have not bought any plat since I avoid the trade chat. It's a horrible inefficient system that I do not wish to spend time on. Having an nice AH to looks at items to buy would tempt me for sure. 

If it wasn't for warframe.market I probably wouldn't be trading at all, meaning not only would I have not bought as much plat, but other people wouldn't have sold me the plat they bought.

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Posted (edited)
Just now, XaoGarrent said:

If it wasn't for warframe.market I probably wouldn't be trading at all, meaning not only would I have not bought as much plat, but other people wouldn't have sold me the plat they bought.

agreed, also it would lessen exploitation because we can see the different prices and averages OURSELVES in game.

Edited by Darkvramp
Added everthing after agreed

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Posted (edited)
Spoiler

 

@TheAtrocity Aight fam, this is gonna turn into a Shroud reacts to Doc reacting to Shroud reacting to Doc, but sure, I will keep honestly answering these. I did fix some of your typos in the answers, hope you dont mind. ;D
 

  • That's exactly what we all mean when we accuse you of hiding something: you all know each other but nobody else does outside the mafia.

Okay, few things.
1. We know each other because we actually end up fighting each other over rivens 99% of the time. And it rarely starts out friendly.
2. Anyone can message us and talk to us. We're actually pretty nice and down-to-earth people, it's just that now we are being turned into some kind of monsters.

3. Also, I don't see how any of us are "Shadowy", everyone is publicly known and seen, none of us are hiding and honestly none of us even knew this was going to happen.

  • I question how you arrived at 1% of the riven market. Where are your numbers? Even if you *did* have numbers, this certainly sounds manipulative: trash and undesirable rivens won't obviously be controlled. We're concerned about decent+ rivens most players can afford that can bolster their weapons.

I'm not entirely sure what numbers you mean, I really don't understand this sentence, sorry. If you paraphrase it in a more understandable way I am more than glad to answer. If you mean how I started out? Basically started by trading out Maxed mods, arcanes, prime sets - i.e. buying at like 200p on daytime when a lot of people are selling and like 400p around nighttime when no one is selling. If that's what you mean? Please correct me if I misunderstood it.

  • Actually, yes. If you're hoarding all the good rivens (or the vast majority), and the player very much wants said rivens, how on earth are they going to get it without paying up? They don't have a choice. They've amassed that much plat, and there's no justifiable price being sold except overpriced ones sold by...the mafia.

The way it works is pretty simple. We try to snipe an amazing riven that we know is worth much more. Here is how it usually goes - the person selling it does not care to squeeze out the maximum he can and decides to sell me the riven for a sum that he finds reasonable, lets say 1000 platinum. He basically goes from acquiring that riven to selling it within 10 minutes (Just takes the first deal). What we do when we sell it, is not resell it for the price that a 100 other people are willing to pay, but we make it more expensive to see if we can find that ONE guy who will be ready to pay the maximum for it. It has even taken me 2 months to sell a riven sometimes, but if I know that 1 person is out there, I can wait for him to get a good profit. Is this scummy? Probably. I see it more as business again. Imagine you had a riven that you knew could sell for 10000 platinum, but it would take a month. Would you sell it for 2000, but in 5 minutes? I'd rather wait the month.

  • Semlar's website isn't perfect: it takes usually-overpriced trade chat screenshots and lists them, when most trades are usually lower after haggling. However, you cannot say "nobody understands the value of" because the fact of the matter is, a riven is worthless until someone comes around and rigorously tests and theory crafts the item for it's best and most consistent results and formulate the best riven for it. Anyone can understand this, not just you pretentious "riven traders clan". Sounds like you really don't think that "None of us think we own the trading game.."

I said " rarely anyone understands the value of." Here is a quick example - Lanka rivens with -impact are a very rare collectors commodity and only a few are left in the game. If you own one, you can get anywhere from 5000 up to whatever a collector is ready to pay. A person was supposedly offered 70000 for a Lanka riven with Multishot, CritD, Dam, -Impact , and he did not take the offer, simply due to the extreme rarity of it. Would you have known that? I hope that is a good example, there are quite a few more combinations and stats people are not aware of, but that's not the point here. Anyway, I had a long pause here as I am struggling, yet again, to understand your point in the middle there. I guess you are trying to say people do, in fact, understand the values of rivens, because nowadays builds and good rolls are well-known and people know what stats to aim for on rivens? Maybe, I would really argue against that, despite knowing what rolls to go for, people really do not understand how to price their rivens. If I missed your point, please correct me. Also a disclaimer: I am not a part of a riven dealing clan. I'm just trying to get people to listen and stop believing the first thing they read. Even if I was in that clan, to my knowledge, that clan is a free-for-all anyway, they fight between themselves for rivens.

  • Irrelevant. Our gripe is your trading group manipulating the market. Not just Faceless.

Again, there is no trading group. There are a TON of people dealing in rivens, most of them are spread across random clans, which is also irrelevant. Are we manipulating anything? I don't think so. We are just doing what i explained above. I've bought rivens for 17000 just to sell them for 25000 a month later. The person who got the 17000 was extremely happy and the person spending the 25000 was extremely happy, we just filter it. Anyway, I'm going off topic. 

  • (I'd imagine you only raised your voices because it threatened your group anyways).

Oh, but here you are so wrong and this is the point that everyone is missing and it is extremely important. Let me elaborate.
It didn't threaten Riven Dealers at all, it was a blessing for us. It threatened you, the Warframe community. Honestly, all it takes is a handful of experienced riven traders to use this RivenHunter app, and they would completely take control over the Riven market, sniping EVERY good/perfect riven that passes through it. What people don't realize is that this app was a god-send for us, but it massively threatened the economy, and people who, let me remind you, would pay Semlar to use this, would have a massive advantage over the people taking it as a hobby. It would turn into a part-time job.

  • Some of them definitely look like screenshots taken from discord. But I can't say much from here.

I can't either, honestly. I imagine it was another discord or website that Semlar gave you access to, but I can guarantee you, this is not Riven Dealers discord.

  • Either you're seriously trying very hard to mislead us, or you're plain not thinking. What do you think extra accounts are made for? All you'd need to do is store a bunch of rivens in secondhand account(s). 90 rivens per account per member per clan. Now ain't that something? You aren't fooling anyone.

I agree that it is possible to create extra accounts for storage, BUT, as you know we all use riven.market to sell our rivens. As soon as anyone lists more than 99 rivens, we take action too, starting by contacting the person and ending by putting in support tickets with proof. A recent example would be a Russian trader by the name of "StrainForce" , he had 120~ rivens listed for sale - seeing that the community quickly found out he was also engaging in real money trading, so support tickets were sent in and the player got banned. We might seem evil, but we do follow the ToS. 
From a down to earth personal perspective - dude it's just not worth creating another account. Selling from it is extremely awkward, you get caught too fast + you're risking both your main account and alternate account. It's just a massive risk with little reward, and trust me, it's pretty hard to snipe more than 90 god rivens. xD Also, you really DONT understand the credit tax. I spend 90% of my in-game time in index farming credits, I physically can't do that on 2 accounts man. 10k platinum is 5m credits. 5m credits is what, 40-60 minutes. For 1 trade.

  • Massive new influx of players spending plat on only decent rivens, and the game of simple economics where there's suddenly more plat isn't a bad counter, but they don't skyrocket from 3k to 10k in a matter of a few months. That's ridiculous. Something is going on. (De Beers diamond ring a bell, anyone?)

You answered the question yourself there. We have rivens up for, lets say 3k, the more people come to the game, the more people want our rivens for 3k. If 10 people want my riven for 3k. I put it at 4k. The more new players arrive, the higher the bar gets pushed for the price. Keep buying out the lower tier (decent rivens) and you keep pushing the demand for better ones up.


I hope I answered and gave you clarity, please, let me know if I can elaborate on anything more.

 

This is a pretty lengthy response to @TheAtrocitys comment earlier. If you take your time to read this, I highly appreciate it. 

P.S. I would also like to add that it is hard to convince people that don't want to listen and ones that don't care to actually give all of this a chance to look at it from another angle. I'm genuinely trying to explain why the community is misinformed and on an unnecessary witch-hunt. Please, just give this all another look. I gain nothing from this myself, think about it. At this point all I am gaining is a mob at my door too, but I will still try to explain the truth to you to the best of my ability.

Edited by ---PV---Sniga
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I HAVE A PERFECT SOLUTION FOR THIS HEAR ME OUT (DE) AND MY FELLOW COMMUNITY MEMBERS 
90% OF THE COMMUNITY thinks that no riven should cost more than 1k or more, ppl sell for 5k 15k 10k and 10% JUST rip new players SELL high buy low thats their mentality so far this is absolutely crazy so the soloution is this 
EX: SYBARIS riven what stats are needed to be godly CC+CD MS+CD DMG +CD or DMG+CC+CD-NEG (good one). 
So each good stat the riven needs prices should be based on each stats lets keep each good stat price at 200p even for good neg stats 
EX:
DMG+CC+CD-zoom => 200+200+200+200 so a god roll like this should cost around 800p max affordable 
EX:
if a riven has DMG+CC then => 200+200 then it should cost 400p affordabe i know only the 10% i spoke about will find this a bad idea but rest will think its a good idea to implement 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Xydeth said:

also, gaming never had RNG equipment, never. its fine in diablo, right ? or PoE...or or or...but in warframe people think the amount of RNG on rivens is just too much when its not.

Never played Diablo 2, but PoE?

Here is the difference between them

The resources between in PoE which is the trading curreny (which is used for crafting) is really easy to get from farming efficiently since all you need to do is to kill faster and move faster, and you can trade to get the currency, not time consuming at all, but kuva? If you want to roll a riven that has a 10 rolls, it's about 15 minutes of kuva survival, just to roll 1, not 3 but 1. Because each 5 minutes you get 600 kuva, with booster you can get 1,200 kuva which you need 15 minutes just to roll 1. There's no scaling as well, which makes it bad as well.

Now the RNG between Warframe and PoE (rivens for warframe and equipment for PoE), is that PoE handled a lot better. You have mutiple way of getting you want, you can even put another modifier on your weapon that is also guranteed as well. PoE is also introducing synthesis item, which is an item that have different permanent mods, this way people don't need to fear of losing the stat the have. You also have a way to increase the chance of getting the stat you want as well with delve

Now Warframe? You have only 2 ways, either you roll your rivens, or just buy it. You can't get guranteed the stat you want, and you cannot keep the status you want in the riven at all. You cannot raise the chances of wanting to the get stat you want. 

The RNG in Warframe is simply an RNG that has been done in a bad way

 

Edited by Genesix6
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48 minutes ago, Arniox said:

The whole point of the original tracker and now this new data stuff is to stop people from ripping off newbies. 

If the majority of people sell a sniper riven at say, 800p then most people will now be able to see that and won't ever buy from players selling higher. 

This means the people that try sell at insane prices will never sell and will be forced to lower their price, thus stabilizing the market. 

This is really good and I can't wait tbh

It's a free market, you're essentially saying that those with a higher budget are being ripped off, likewise your directly saying that players shouldn't charge for more

This doesn't apply here, players are free to decide the budget and the price, as i stated, it's better that you get this idea straight, do not lecture other players on the correct price.

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1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

You must be carefull with the words you use, otherwise you're inteionally calling another player and telling him that he is violating the rules.

You're actually putting words in their mouth, all they meant is that people that ARE actually scammers will have a harder time when the market isn't quite as confused. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people that call me a scammer when I sell something for 30 that often sells for 25, meanwhile they try desperately to find something that sells it for 5-10 lol.
This exact thing happened and they changed their mind mid-deal, I sent them ''ehhm'' but found myself blocked. 
Trade-chat is a precious thing

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Just now, KelvinM6 said:

You're actually putting words in their mouth, all they meant is that people that ARE actually scammers will have a harder time when the market isn't quite as confused. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people that call me a scammer when I sell something for 30 that often sells for 25, meanwhile they try desperately to find something that sells it for 5-10 lol.
This exact thing happened and they changed their mind mid-deal, I sent them ''ehhm'' but found myself blocked. 
Trade-chat is a precious thing

But they weren't scaming, scaming is a banable offense.

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1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

But they weren't scaming, scaming is a banable offense.

Who is they?

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

I agree that it is possible to create extra accounts for storage, BUT, as you know we all use riven.market to sell our rivens. As soon as anyone lists more than 99 rivens, we take action too, starting by contacting the person and ending by putting in support tickets with proof. A recent example would be a Russian trader by the name of "StrainForce" , he had 120~ rivens listed for sale - seeing that the community quickly found out he was also engaging in real money trading, so support tickets were sent in and the player got banned. We might seem evil, but we do follow the ToS. 
From a down to earth personal perspective - dude it's just not worth creating another account. Selling from it is extremely awkward, you get caught too fast + you're risking both your main account and alternate account. It's just a massive risk with little reward, and trust me, it's pretty hard to snipe more than 90 god rivens. xD

Let me tell you what I know.

Plenty of traders have bought 2nd, 3rd or even more accounts for real money and only very few created them by themselves due to the riven trade MR8 restriction. They store their rivens and platinum among different account and some even do not use same IP address to log in. This is risk diversification and it is totally worth it. 

I am active on riven.market. I know most active big dealers there by name, including you. Maybe you know me too. I monitor their listed rivens and when I find them suspicious, such as 100% godly rivens or listing too many at one time as you said, I bl them. I have blacklisted many big traders because I know trade is not happening between us anyways, and also because I know many of them involve in real money trading, I treasure my own account and do not want to interact with their risky accounts in any means. 

I did not know that you monitored on riven.market to filter suspicious players, but I find this good. This also explains that recently I have noticed many "new registers" on riven.market  which started by selling rivens for few thousands. I do not believe one individual player is able to start on riven.market with 99% god rivens for 2000-10000pl each. If you track their ingame profile, they are mostly either clanless or belong to a shadow clan. I believe they are side accounts for big traders. All this kinds of accounts go to my bl as soon as I find them.

P.s. you are not on my bl because what you sell looks like a regular player. 

Edited by wachacreate
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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, KelvinM6 said:

Who is they?

Quote

all they meant is that people that ARE actually scammers will have a harder time when the market isn't quite as confused.

Keep in mind that i'm not here to debate TOS, EULA and guidelines. I didn't make the rules

Edited by KIREEK

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Just now, KIREEK said:

 

I'm really confused. Are you saying scammers don't exist?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, KelvinM6 said:

I'm really confused. Are you saying scammers don't exist?

they are non issue since they are very rare.

Scamning often results in reports that not only make the trade reversed but also the scammer punished. There is a reason why no one does it anymore

Edited by KIREEK

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1 minute ago, wachacreate said:

Let me tell you what I know.

Plenty of traders have bought 2nd, 3rd or even more accounts for real money and only very few created them by themselves due to the riven trade MR8 restriction. They store their rivens and platinum among different account and some even do not use same IP address to log in. This is risk diversification and it is totally worth it. 

I am active on riven.market. I know most active big dealers there by name, including you. Maybe you know me too. I monitor their listed rivens and when I find them suspicious, such as 100% godly rivens or listing too many at one time as you said, I bl them. I have blacklisted many big traders because I know trade is not happening between us anyways, and also because I know many of them involve in real money trading, I treasure my own account and do not want to interact with their risky accounts in any means. 

I did not know that you monitored on riven.market to filter suspecting players, but I find this good. This also explains that recently I have noticed many "new registers" on riven.market  which started by selling rivens for few thousands. I do not believe one individual player is able to start on riven.market with 99% god rivens for 2000-10000pl each. If you track their ingame profile, they are mostly either clanless or belong to a shadow clan. I believe they are side accounts for big traders. All this kinds of accounts go to my bl as soon as I find them.

P.s. you are not on my bl because what you sell looks like a regular player. 

I completely agree. I can even tell you the names of people that have done this - buying extra accounts or having multiple accounts just to deal with rivens. I know them too, the biggest fish of them all being the already banned StrainForce, who was also "PlateGuard" and is nikitaGprime right now - we are 99% sure, but don't have concrete proof. It is extremely easy to find these "alt trading accounts", look at Psyxolol, appears completely out of nowhere with good knowledge of rivens and a nice bank. Also an alt for sure, but how can we prove it. 

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1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

they are non issue since they are very rare.

Scamning often results in reports that not only make the trade reversed but also the scammer punished. There is a reson why no one does it anymore

Ahh alright, I see your point now, I agree the distinction is important. But either way, this will prevent misleading tactics even if they're in more of a grey area

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vor 22 Minuten schrieb Genesix6:

The RNG in Warframe is simply an RNG that has been done in a bad way

thats an opinion. i prefer warframes RNG over PoE.

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1 minute ago, Xydeth said:

thats an opinion. i prefer warframes RNG over PoE.

if you prefer it fine.

But that's doesn't mean that anything at all

PoE still handled the RNG better than Warframe. That's simply a fact, like I stated in my post. PoE have mutiple to minimize the RNG, allow you keep the stat you want as well, allows you to get the stat you want, also non of the stat in PoE weapon are useless. All of them have use.

Riven Warframe have 2 ways like I stated. There's no way to minimize the RNG, you can't keep the stat you want, there's no way of getting the stat you want, not only that the stat in riven have stat that's complete useless such as -flight speed,-damage,-multishot, -+zoom, -mag size. 

This is not an opinion, this simply fact

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4 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

thats an opinion. i prefer warframes RNG over PoE.

So you prefer complete chaos over ordered/investable chaos. good to know.

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8 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

if you prefer it fine.

But that's doesn't mean that anything at all

PoE still handled the RNG better than Warframe. That's simply a fact, like I stated in my post. PoE have mutiple to minimize the RNG, allow you keep the stat you want as well, allows you to get the stat you want, also non of the stat in PoE weapon are useless. All of them have use.

Riven Warframe have 2 ways like I stated. There's no way to minimize the RNG, you can't keep the stat you want, there's no way of getting the stat you want, not only that the stat in riven have stat that's complete useless such as -flight speed,-damage,-multishot, -+zoom, -mag size. 

This is not an opinion, this simply fact

It's not technically a fact that it's better of course, but you're spot on. I feel like the weak parts of rivens need a boost, I don't see that really upsetting anyone and it would lend more power to the less straight forward rivens that aren't ''this is good dmg modifier, this is not'' style rivens. This has slightly better sustained dps and is more flexible, this has good burst and takes down a threat when you need it to, this has actually really, really good duration for insane DoT that is slow as a trade-off and enhances the cc or viral it may also have etc. etc., and all of these would be balanced to be legitimate considerations based on application.
Some stats like +flight speed could boost other modifiers it's combined with, so you don't sacrifice as much potential dps of some kind for something less tangible. I actually like an rng-heavy system that forces you to adapt, and don't even see the lack of controlled progression as the biggest problem, it's that everything along the way is pretty much worthless a good chunk of the time.

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