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[DE]Rebecca

Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

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I think that "free market" is lost when we impose rules upon it. I'm all for fair trade, but dont confuse the idea of fair trade and free market. 

As a fair trade is determined by the players. They already have to agree. If you aren't wise enough to educate yourself, you shouldn't be playing with free market anyways. There really isnt training wheels anywhere else in this game, why now?

Also, lets remember that free market means no one can tax or control it. 

Then again, maybe ive simply romanticized Dread Pirate Roberts. 

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2 hours ago, wachacreate said:

The price for good rivens is getting ridiculous. I know many rivens that were traded at ~50k-450k pl and can not believe they were just all fair trade only for the value of the riven itself. Most trades that go over 1k pl in value contain rivens. I’ve been thinking, What about rising trade tax exponentially? E.g., per trade, 1-1000 pl has 500 credits per pl, 1001-5000 pl has 1000 credits per pl, 5001-10000 pl has 2000 credits per pl, and 10001-15000 has 4000 credits per pl, etc. basically every 5000 pl will double the trade tax than before. Would this discourage player to trade huge amount of platinum per trade or would this encourage them to turn to RMT?

I know the price should be up to seller and buyer themselves. But if you think that a riven worth more than 20k pl and actually traded at that price is completely normal and common, we are not the same kind of players. 

Edit:

There are indeed more platin inflows during the last few months. We did not see others tradables price rising but only rivens. This is some weird kind of "targeted inflation". It would be nice if there is a more efficient way to recycle the platin back to the market. 

I also propose (ir)regular riven disposition adjustments. So many weapons are out there with 5 dispositions while nobody cares to use them at all. Also so many weapons got their dispositions lowered over and over again yet they are still super popular. What about remove the current disposition range and just allow indefinite adjustments? If Hind has +1000% dmg it might also become useful? Adjust based on the use rate so that more weapons will get their love?

Yea, I'm going to have to see these 450k trades before I call BS. Primed chamber maybe, but for a riven? What was it? 

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1 minute ago, Prisma-Ivara said:

Yea, I'm going to have to see these 450k trades before I call BS. Primed chamber maybe, but for a riven? What was it? 

may be vectis CC/CD/MS -Mag CaP All Stats S Grades, Unroll 😜

 

Still Doubting 450k? lol even primed chamber not worth 450k.

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2 minutes ago, Enchanter said:

may be vectis CC/CD/MS -Mag CaP All Stats S Grades, Unroll 😜

 

Still Doubting 450k? lol even primed chamber not worth 450k.

Guess I got a deal of a life time for my Vectis then.

P.S. My kohm sold for my asking earlier today. 

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1 hour ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

I completely agree. I can even tell you the names of people that have done this - buying extra accounts or having multiple accounts just to deal with rivens. I know them too, the biggest fish of them all being the already banned StrainForce, who was also "PlateGuard" and is nikitaGprime right now - we are 99% sure, but don't have concrete proof. It is extremely easy to find these "alt trading accounts", look at Psyxolol, appears completely out of nowhere with good knowledge of rivens and a nice bank. Also an alt for sure, but how can we prove it. 

It's the same dude. All the rivens on the new account on rivenmarket are the same as the old one as. Once they run out of goodwill, they pay and change their name every couple of weeks. 

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3 minutes ago, Prisma-Ivara said:

Yea, I'm going to have to see these 450k trades before I call BS. Primed chamber maybe, but for a riven? What was it? 

Unrolled rubico cc/cd/ms -zoom All s grades.

Bid started from 80k, at ~150k traders were in line to pay. 

Original post (in Chinese) about this trade was deleted. It happened in Feb. I did not expect it to be deleted. Trading screenshot was not publicly available. So I do not have any proof.

This riven was listed on riven.market few days after the post for a super short while at 99,999pl by a player (probably just wanted to show off). I do not want to disclose his ID here, because I do not have anything against him. ID listed here might lead to unnecessary troubles.

Knowing recent trade prices for godly rivens I know this is totally reasonable for traders that have too much platin to squander.

Again, up to you to believe it or not.

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2 minutes ago, wachacreate said:

Unrolled rubico cc/cd/ms -zoom All s grades.

Bid started from 80k, at ~150k traders were in line to pay. 

Original post (in Chinese) about this trade was deleted. It happened in Feb. I did not expect it to be deleted. Trading screenshot was not publicly available. So I do not have any proof.

This riven was listed on riven.market few days after the post for a super short while at 99,999pl by a player (probably just wanted to show off). I do not want to disclose his ID here, because I do not have anything against him. ID listed here might lead to unnecessary troubles.

Knowing recent trade prices for godly rivens I know this is totally reasonable for traders that have too much platin to squander.

Again, up to you to believe it or not.

I Dont believe you. and i have proof if u wanna see in personal. 

If they traded already then @[DE]Rebecca must investigate. because there are my two friend and they just trade vectis riven for 100k and they both got banned. seller still banned but buyer got unbanned for some reason. seller still banned i dont know why they didnt unban seller. 

 

*people just here pay willingly and after that they just say its riven dealer fault lmao. 

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5 minutes ago, Enchanter said:

*people just here pay willingly and after that they just say its riven dealer fault lmao. 

you know, they have just accumulated so much platin and have no idea how to make use of them anymore.

The result is that true good rivens are soaring into space in price. We all know that right.

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9 hours ago, (XB1)Nittymaster said:

Anybody who would pay 10k plat for any riven needs their head examined.  Plat is in game currency not real money.  No one that I know can put plat in a will or take plat with it them to their graves.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, wachacreate said:

you know, they have just accumulated so much platin and have no idea how to make use of them anymore.

The result is that true good rivens are soaring into space in price. We all know that right.

Funny thing is noone ever took so seriously about riven prices lol not even DE, not even TACTICAL POTATO*. 

why DE didnt take any action before about riven prices? dont they know? or they cant control? why now? why A YOUTUBER is talking now? why not before lol? why everyone is feeling bad about riven prices?  

and i know how much DE care about their tenno. i really know very well. i have really good exp with DE and community. hah

 

and about semlar 

1st -  Why he created third part app? do you really think we need to pay and get riven information? 

2nd - He isnt a new player. he knows third party app against TOS. still he created. nice 

 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Enchanter said:

Funny thing is noone ever took so seriously about riven prices lol not even DE, not even TACTICAL POTATO*. 

why DE didnt take any action before about riven prices? dont they know? or they cant control? why now? why A YOUTUBER is talking now? why not before lol? why everyone is feeling bad about riven prices?  

and i know how much DE care about their tenno. i really know very well. i have really good exp with DE and community. hah

 

and about semlar 

1st -  Why he created third part app? do you really think we need to pay and get riven information? 

2nd - He isnt a new player. he knows third party app against TOS. still he created. nice 

 

I guess because this boosts the need for platinum and yea. More players will pay to top up more. DE might check trades that got reported or when something abnormal got detected. But after all, free market it is. I suppose they react now cuz there’s a outcry and before it was not so intense maybe.  

I don’t really use semlar because it can’t give much apart from super basic riven price guidance. And I don’t really care about it personally. If this new coop may justify some 100k+pl riven trades, I hope your friend could get unbanned if they didn’t do anything else wrong.

Edited by wachacreate

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Genesix6:

[..]

PoE still handled the RNG better than Warframe. That's simply a fact, like I stated in my post. PoE have mutiple to minimize the RNG, allow you keep the stat you want as well, allows you to get the stat you want, also non of the stat in PoE weapon are useless. All of them have use.

[..]

u rate it, which is an opinion. i played PoE for quite a while. when u reroll stats, sockets, links or colors of sockets its full RNG, at least it was until i stopped playing and everything past that idc and idk and it doesnt matter because the RNG in PoE is not "better" or "worse", its just as heavy RNG as u would expect of a looter and either someone likes it or not, which also applies to warframe. its the essence of any looter game and without RNG they wont survive long. as soon as u can control too much then the long term playability and motivation is a small flame in the wind and a questionable design choice.

 

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4 hours ago, ---PV---Sniga said:
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@TheAtrocity Aight fam, this is gonna turn into a Shroud reacts to Doc reacting to Shroud reacting to Doc, but sure, I will keep honestly answering these. I did fix some of your typos in the answers, hope you dont mind. ;D
 

  • That's exactly what we all mean when we accuse you of hiding something: you all know each other but nobody else does outside the mafia.

Okay, few things.
1. We know each other because we actually end up fighting each other over rivens 99% of the time. And it rarely starts out friendly.
2. Anyone can message us and talk to us. We're actually pretty nice and down-to-earth people, it's just that now we are being turned into some kind of monsters.

3. Also, I don't see how any of us are "Shadowy", everyone is publicly known and seen, none of us are hiding and honestly none of us even knew this was going to happen.

  • I question how you arrived at 1% of the riven market. Where are your numbers? Even if you *did* have numbers, this certainly sounds manipulative: trash and undesirable rivens won't obviously be controlled. We're concerned about decent+ rivens most players can afford that can bolster their weapons.

I'm not entirely sure what numbers you mean, I really don't understand this sentence, sorry. If you paraphrase it in a more understandable way I am more than glad to answer. If you mean how I started out? Basically started by trading out Maxed mods, arcanes, prime sets - i.e. buying at like 200p on daytime when a lot of people are selling and like 400p around nighttime when no one is selling. If that's what you mean? Please correct me if I misunderstood it.

  • Actually, yes. If you're hoarding all the good rivens (or the vast majority), and the player very much wants said rivens, how on earth are they going to get it without paying up? They don't have a choice. They've amassed that much plat, and there's no justifiable price being sold except overpriced ones sold by...the mafia.

The way it works is pretty simple. We try to snipe an amazing riven that we know is worth much more. Here is how it usually goes - the person selling it does not care to squeeze out the maximum he can and decides to sell me the riven for a sum that he finds reasonable, lets say 1000 platinum. He basically goes from acquiring that riven to selling it within 10 minutes (Just takes the first deal). What we do when we sell it, is not resell it for the price that a 100 other people are willing to pay, but we make it more expensive to see if we can find that ONE guy who will be ready to pay the maximum for it. It has even taken me 2 months to sell a riven sometimes, but if I know that 1 person is out there, I can wait for him to get a good profit. Is this scummy? Probably. I see it more as business again. Imagine you had a riven that you knew could sell for 10000 platinum, but it would take a month. Would you sell it for 2000, but in 5 minutes? I'd rather wait the month.

  • Semlar's website isn't perfect: it takes usually-overpriced trade chat screenshots and lists them, when most trades are usually lower after haggling. However, you cannot say "nobody understands the value of" because the fact of the matter is, a riven is worthless until someone comes around and rigorously tests and theory crafts the item for it's best and most consistent results and formulate the best riven for it. Anyone can understand this, not just you pretentious "riven traders clan". Sounds like you really don't think that "None of us think we own the trading game.."

I said " rarely anyone understands the value of." Here is a quick example - Lanka rivens with -impact are a very rare collectors commodity and only a few are left in the game. If you own one, you can get anywhere from 5000 up to whatever a collector is ready to pay. A person was supposedly offered 70000 for a Lanka riven with Multishot, CritD, Dam, -Impact , and he did not take the offer, simply due to the extreme rarity of it. Would you have known that? I hope that is a good example, there are quite a few more combinations and stats people are not aware of, but that's not the point here. Anyway, I had a long pause here as I am struggling, yet again, to understand your point in the middle there. I guess you are trying to say people do, in fact, understand the values of rivens, because nowadays builds and good rolls are well-known and people know what stats to aim for on rivens? Maybe, I would really argue against that, despite knowing what rolls to go for, people really do not understand how to price their rivens. If I missed your point, please correct me. Also a disclaimer: I am not a part of a riven dealing clan. I'm just trying to get people to listen and stop believing the first thing they read. Even if I was in that clan, to my knowledge, that clan is a free-for-all anyway, they fight between themselves for rivens.

  • Irrelevant. Our gripe is your trading group manipulating the market. Not just Faceless.

Again, there is no trading group. There are a TON of people dealing in rivens, most of them are spread across random clans, which is also irrelevant. Are we manipulating anything? I don't think so. We are just doing what i explained above. I've bought rivens for 17000 just to sell them for 25000 a month later. The person who got the 17000 was extremely happy and the person spending the 25000 was extremely happy, we just filter it. Anyway, I'm going off topic. 

  • (I'd imagine you only raised your voices because it threatened your group anyways).

Oh, but here you are so wrong and this is the point that everyone is missing and it is extremely important. Let me elaborate.
It didn't threaten Riven Dealers at all, it was a blessing for us. It threatened you, the Warframe community. Honestly, all it takes is a handful of experienced riven traders to use this RivenHunter app, and they would completely take control over the Riven market, sniping EVERY good/perfect riven that passes through it. What people don't realize is that this app was a god-send for us, but it massively threatened the economy, and people who, let me remind you, would pay Semlar to use this, would have a massive advantage over the people taking it as a hobby. It would turn into a part-time job.

  • Some of them definitely look like screenshots taken from discord. But I can't say much from here.

I can't either, honestly. I imagine it was another discord or website that Semlar gave you access to, but I can guarantee you, this is not Riven Dealers discord.

  • Either you're seriously trying very hard to mislead us, or you're plain not thinking. What do you think extra accounts are made for? All you'd need to do is store a bunch of rivens in secondhand account(s). 90 rivens per account per member per clan. Now ain't that something? You aren't fooling anyone.

I agree that it is possible to create extra accounts for storage, BUT, as you know we all use riven.market to sell our rivens. As soon as anyone lists more than 99 rivens, we take action too, starting by contacting the person and ending by putting in support tickets with proof. A recent example would be a Russian trader by the name of "StrainForce" , he had 120~ rivens listed for sale - seeing that the community quickly found out he was also engaging in real money trading, so support tickets were sent in and the player got banned. We might seem evil, but we do follow the ToS. 
From a down to earth personal perspective - dude it's just not worth creating another account. Selling from it is extremely awkward, you get caught too fast + you're risking both your main account and alternate account. It's just a massive risk with little reward, and trust me, it's pretty hard to snipe more than 90 god rivens. xD Also, you really DONT understand the credit tax. I spend 90% of my in-game time in index farming credits, I physically can't do that on 2 accounts man. 10k platinum is 5m credits. 5m credits is what, 40-60 minutes. For 1 trade.

  • Massive new influx of players spending plat on only decent rivens, and the game of simple economics where there's suddenly more plat isn't a bad counter, but they don't skyrocket from 3k to 10k in a matter of a few months. That's ridiculous. Something is going on. (De Beers diamond ring a bell, anyone?)

You answered the question yourself there. We have rivens up for, lets say 3k, the more people come to the game, the more people want our rivens for 3k. If 10 people want my riven for 3k. I put it at 4k. The more new players arrive, the higher the bar gets pushed for the price. Keep buying out the lower tier (decent rivens) and you keep pushing the demand for better ones up.


I hope I answered and gave you clarity, please, let me know if I can elaborate on anything more.

 

This is a pretty lengthy response to @TheAtrocitys comment earlier. If you take your time to read this, I highly appreciate it. 

P.S. I would also like to add that it is hard to convince people that don't want to listen and ones that don't care to actually give all of this a chance to look at it from another angle. I'm genuinely trying to explain why the community is misinformed and on an unnecessary witch-hunt. Please, just give this all another look. I gain nothing from this myself, think about it. At this point all I am gaining is a mob at my door too, but I will still try to explain the truth to you to the best of my ability.

Some open ended answers. When I mean 1%, I literally mean: how did you arrive at that specific figure? 1% of market is a pretty ambitious thing to say.

When I meant that it threatened your group, I did not exclude at all from saying it protected the community - I literally said it was against the WF community for the bot to exist! But the bot could be abused by any group - and I again restate: you made a lot of drama because I imagine it posed a threat to your group - a battle of who could stay up longer and snipe faster. 

 

I'm seeing 2 sides of the story which sound both fishy and legible. Imo, you BOTH are at fault. There shouldn't have been this group full of pretentious traders thinking everyone else is a monkey and hoarding the best rivens, reselling at the highest price. That's on your side. Players are happy to get these high end rivens but that's because there's no choice. If you're deleting high end rivens from the market for higher resale, of COURSE people are going to eventually assume that's the average price. (Again, de beers diamond!  wiki that please)

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An auction house would solve alot of these issues. Besides getting rid of the horribly inconvenient limits on daily trades (Imagine being MR 25 and selling a guy your stock of Relics. Imagine selling 125 Relics, 5 x 25, a day, for a week straight), it will also allow people to see prices listed on stuff, then buy or sell accordingly. I can name a few games with an auction house that either has a way to filter search results based on what stats you want and a min/max setting for said stats, or allows use of addons' to add that function. This would also allow players to get a general idea of how good or bad a Riven is. There are weapons that have a 1 disposition, but have +150% stats, or weapons with a 4-5 disposition but low stats, and it's hard to know if those rolls are good or not. Is my Opticor Riven with +150% multishot a good roll? Average roll? What about my Soma Riven with +74% critical damage? An auction house with a filter function would allow us to search "Riven>Soma>Critical Chance>100% - 200%", and if we don't see a Riven that falls within that criteria, we'll know the roll is either really rare or the Riven for that weapon is really rare. These games also have a sell history function, or allow addons' that show the sell history, for their auction houses.

 

An auction house removes player to player interaction, which some people may enjoy, but it offers so much more. You remove the chances of getting scammed if the selling "accidentally" sold you the wrong Riven, it removes the hassle of dealing with hardline negotiators, and publicly displays the information of the item in question instead of dealing with the "WTS x, PMO" and "lol, too low *Blocks communications*". The current system allows for abuse. Know how easy it is to say "WTS x, PMO", get 1 response, and simply lie saying "Sorry, my best offer is x plat, can you go higher?" when you only had that one guy contact you? That's just one cheap tactic, or a handful, I've seen used in other games with a system like this and I wouldn't be surprised if it's used here too. Auction houses are safe, reliable, and would easily solve this "mafia" problem.

 

And if you're worried about platinum sells, well, I don't buy plat very much anymore because I have most of the ingame market items, and I don't trust players to be truthful during a trade. One of my friends got scammed from one of the recent events a few months ago, so I won't go into that detail. But why should I trust a random person to be truthful about the item they are selling, or the legitimacy of their platinum they are using, when there are all these reports of shady characters and actions going around? When I buy platinum, it's to get day 1 access to new weapons and new warframes. A few years ago, I would've bought platinum every week to buy the three new weapons. Now, I'm buying platinum every few months because of the lack of content being released for purchase.

 

I'm interested in what you are going to do, but I don't have much hope that it will magically solve all the current issues trade chat has right now.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Again I will say, there is nothing wrong with the rivens themselves. It is us that has made this weird market as to what is expensive and what is not. I enjoy rivens, I like trying different combinations, but I feel some people take it a lot more seriously than what it's supposed to.

I don't like Rivens, never have never will. I don't like the luck of the draw, I don't like the grind to reroll them, I don't like the market. I think initially DE thought they could random gen a bunch of mods and life would be easier, but they're causing stress on the database, they need balancing with dispositions, and now they're affecting the economy. All for what? The willy waving when you get a good one? Whatever. At least they make me plat.

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42 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

u rate it, which is an opinion. i played PoE for quite a while. when u reroll stats, sockets, links or colors of sockets its full RNG, at least it was until i stopped playing and everything past that idc and idk and it doesnt matter because the RNG in PoE is not "better" or "worse", its just as heavy RNG as u would expect of a looter and either someone likes it or not, which also applies to warframe.

Well I stated fact how PoE handled the RNG.

Yeah its full of heavy RNG, but you can already minimize the RNG by using crafting table, so you don't need to be annoyed at all.

It's still better handled than Rivens in Warframe.

Also a looter game doesn't excuse the RNG system, if the RNG was simply badly made then it is simply badly. Why do you think you think the tower key was replaced with space cabbages.

DE simply just throw stat and useless stat  into the rivens, and just make it scale on Disposition, where concerning the fact you can get yourself -140% damage on 5 disposition (which most of them are mediocre or bad weapon) where as you can get -60% damage on 1 disposition simply just goes to show how they handle RNG to begin with, because they made the negative stat scales as high as the positive stat goes.

42 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

its the essence of any looter game and without RNG they wont survive long. as soon as u can control too much then the long term playability and motivation is a small flame in the wind and a questionable design choice.

Didn't say anything about removing RNG at all, minimize the RNG is simply what I said, cause making a design that fully relies on RNG, can easily waste your time. Like rolling 20 time on riven, you know what I got last time one of the stat is? 160% crit chance and 120% crit damage and -180% damage, My time on farming kuva was simply wasted. Because you can't keep the stat at all, not only that, the time for farming the kuva was nothing but a time wasted, because You can only get them by farming kuva survival and kuva mission which they only give you so little, that you have to like farm like 2 hours in survival just to roll 10 times, while the missions you have to wait for them to spawn again.  If you want to create an RNG system you have to make that system does not fully waisted the players time, otherwise it will create a problem

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ---PV---Sniga said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

@TheAtrocity Aight fam, this is gonna turn into a Shroud reacts to Doc reacting to Shroud reacting to Doc, but sure, I will keep honestly answering these. I did fix some of your typos in the answers, hope you dont mind. ;D
 

  • That's exactly what we all mean when we accuse you of hiding something: you all know each other but nobody else does outside the mafia.

Okay, few things.
1. We know each other because we actually end up fighting each other over rivens 99% of the time. And it rarely starts out friendly.
2. Anyone can message us and talk to us. We're actually pretty nice and down-to-earth people, it's just that now we are being turned into some kind of monsters.

3. Also, I don't see how any of us are "Shadowy", everyone is publicly known and seen, none of us are hiding and honestly none of us even knew this was going to happen.

  • I question how you arrived at 1% of the riven market. Where are your numbers? Even if you *did* have numbers, this certainly sounds manipulative: trash and undesirable rivens won't obviously be controlled. We're concerned about decent+ rivens most players can afford that can bolster their weapons.

I'm not entirely sure what numbers you mean, I really don't understand this sentence, sorry. If you paraphrase it in a more understandable way I am more than glad to answer. If you mean how I started out? Basically started by trading out Maxed mods, arcanes, prime sets - i.e. buying at like 200p on daytime when a lot of people are selling and like 400p around nighttime when no one is selling. If that's what you mean? Please correct me if I misunderstood it.

  • Actually, yes. If you're hoarding all the good rivens (or the vast majority), and the player very much wants said rivens, how on earth are they going to get it without paying up? They don't have a choice. They've amassed that much plat, and there's no justifiable price being sold except overpriced ones sold by...the mafia.

The way it works is pretty simple. We try to snipe an amazing riven that we know is worth much more. Here is how it usually goes - the person selling it does not care to squeeze out the maximum he can and decides to sell me the riven for a sum that he finds reasonable, lets say 1000 platinum. He basically goes from acquiring that riven to selling it within 10 minutes (Just takes the first deal). What we do when we sell it, is not resell it for the price that a 100 other people are willing to pay, but we make it more expensive to see if we can find that ONE guy who will be ready to pay the maximum for it. It has even taken me 2 months to sell a riven sometimes, but if I know that 1 person is out there, I can wait for him to get a good profit. Is this scummy? Probably. I see it more as business again. Imagine you had a riven that you knew could sell for 10000 platinum, but it would take a month. Would you sell it for 2000, but in 5 minutes? I'd rather wait the month.

  • Semlar's website isn't perfect: it takes usually-overpriced trade chat screenshots and lists them, when most trades are usually lower after haggling. However, you cannot say "nobody understands the value of" because the fact of the matter is, a riven is worthless until someone comes around and rigorously tests and theory crafts the item for it's best and most consistent results and formulate the best riven for it. Anyone can understand this, not just you pretentious "riven traders clan". Sounds like you really don't think that "None of us think we own the trading game.."

I said " rarely anyone understands the value of." Here is a quick example - Lanka rivens with -impact are a very rare collectors commodity and only a few are left in the game. If you own one, you can get anywhere from 5000 up to whatever a collector is ready to pay. A person was supposedly offered 70000 for a Lanka riven with Multishot, CritD, Dam, -Impact , and he did not take the offer, simply due to the extreme rarity of it. Would you have known that? I hope that is a good example, there are quite a few more combinations and stats people are not aware of, but that's not the point here. Anyway, I had a long pause here as I am struggling, yet again, to understand your point in the middle there. I guess you are trying to say people do, in fact, understand the values of rivens, because nowadays builds and good rolls are well-known and people know what stats to aim for on rivens? Maybe, I would really argue against that, despite knowing what rolls to go for, people really do not understand how to price their rivens. If I missed your point, please correct me. Also a disclaimer: I am not a part of a riven dealing clan. I'm just trying to get people to listen and stop believing the first thing they read. Even if I was in that clan, to my knowledge, that clan is a free-for-all anyway, they fight between themselves for rivens.

  • Irrelevant. Our gripe is your trading group manipulating the market. Not just Faceless.

Again, there is no trading group. There are a TON of people dealing in rivens, most of them are spread across random clans, which is also irrelevant. Are we manipulating anything? I don't think so. We are just doing what i explained above. I've bought rivens for 17000 just to sell them for 25000 a month later. The person who got the 17000 was extremely happy and the person spending the 25000 was extremely happy, we just filter it. Anyway, I'm going off topic. 

  • (I'd imagine you only raised your voices because it threatened your group anyways).

Oh, but here you are so wrong and this is the point that everyone is missing and it is extremely important. Let me elaborate.
It didn't threaten Riven Dealers at all, it was a blessing for us. It threatened you, the Warframe community. Honestly, all it takes is a handful of experienced riven traders to use this RivenHunter app, and they would completely take control over the Riven market, sniping EVERY good/perfect riven that passes through it. What people don't realize is that this app was a god-send for us, but it massively threatened the economy, and people who, let me remind you, would pay Semlar to use this, would have a massive advantage over the people taking it as a hobby. It would turn into a part-time job.

  • Some of them definitely look like screenshots taken from discord. But I can't say much from here.

I can't either, honestly. I imagine it was another discord or website that Semlar gave you access to, but I can guarantee you, this is not Riven Dealers discord.

  • Either you're seriously trying very hard to mislead us, or you're plain not thinking. What do you think extra accounts are made for? All you'd need to do is store a bunch of rivens in secondhand account(s). 90 rivens per account per member per clan. Now ain't that something? You aren't fooling anyone.

I agree that it is possible to create extra accounts for storage, BUT, as you know we all use riven.market to sell our rivens. As soon as anyone lists more than 99 rivens, we take action too, starting by contacting the person and ending by putting in support tickets with proof. A recent example would be a Russian trader by the name of "StrainForce" , he had 120~ rivens listed for sale - seeing that the community quickly found out he was also engaging in real money trading, so support tickets were sent in and the player got banned. We might seem evil, but we do follow the ToS. 
From a down to earth personal perspective - dude it's just not worth creating another account. Selling from it is extremely awkward, you get caught too fast + you're risking both your main account and alternate account. It's just a massive risk with little reward, and trust me, it's pretty hard to snipe more than 90 god rivens. xD Also, you really DONT understand the credit tax. I spend 90% of my in-game time in index farming credits, I physically can't do that on 2 accounts man. 10k platinum is 5m credits. 5m credits is what, 40-60 minutes. For 1 trade.

  • Massive new influx of players spending plat on only decent rivens, and the game of simple economics where there's suddenly more plat isn't a bad counter, but they don't skyrocket from 3k to 10k in a matter of a few months. That's ridiculous. Something is going on. (De Beers diamond ring a bell, anyone?)

You answered the question yourself there. We have rivens up for, lets say 3k, the more people come to the game, the more people want our rivens for 3k. If 10 people want my riven for 3k. I put it at 4k. The more new players arrive, the higher the bar gets pushed for the price. Keep buying out the lower tier (decent rivens) and you keep pushing the demand for better ones up.


I hope I answered and gave you clarity, please, let me know if I can elaborate on anything more.

 

This is a pretty lengthy response to @TheAtrocitys comment earlier. If you take your time to read this, I highly appreciate it. 

P.S. I would also like to add that it is hard to convince people that don't want to listen and ones that don't care to actually give all of this a chance to look at it from another angle. I'm genuinely trying to explain why the community is misinformed and on an unnecessary witch-hunt. Please, just give this all another look. I gain nothing from this myself, think about it. At this point all I am gaining is a mob at my door too, but I will still try to explain the truth to you to the best of my ability.

First of all I really appreciate the post, some insight to the story is always nice. As someone who's been accused over and over for the last 2 days of being a scammer and such, It's good to see the reason to all this. I agree with a lot of things you said, mostly about people don't know how to price check their riven, how we got our rivens and how we started (selling corrupted mod and full prime set for me). There's 1 thing however that i disagree with you, it's the people that buy our rivens. 95% (arbitrary number)  of the player base have less then 3000 platinum. Of course that's plenty for normal uses and can even buy a god roll for niche weapons. But for the main part that make up all our profits, the extremely high price god riven for sniper in general and some shotgun riven, those rarely get that low. And when it does, it either have a S#&$ neg, low number, or got sniped in 1 minutes. Most of our buyer are either eidolons hunters that are rich off arcanes or collectors, at least in my small experience. Another small thing is for riven.market. i know some people (me included), that absolutely hate riven.market. I know there are many pros like not having to type in trade chat every 1 minutes + more people can see your rivens but if i ever have to relist them cause it keep on disappearing i would rather kms.

Edited by Veralia

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I'm not one to weigh in on the trading market, since I don't trade much except within my Clan. So my knowledge is limited on the whole "Trading Exploitation". However, I do feel like Riven mods should be made to be less random and more finite.

I always envisioned of a system of Cutting one or multiple stats off of one riven and then Pasting them on to another with Kuva, which destroys the Riven being stripped. The stronger the effect, the more Kuva needed to cut that effect and that would increase for how many effects being pasted over. However, it would require both riven mods to be tied to the same weapon and should lock out the riven from being re-rolled or traded. That way you'd still need duplicates from Trade Chat for stripping and re-rolling. 

The idea of Stripping a riven mod would incentivize the crafting of a perfect riven for those who want to play with them (rather than just collect them for grofit). The perfect riven mods already in circulation would continue to be worth their weight in platinum, but the bar for obtaining such a riven would be lessened greatly since everyone would be able to get one eventually. The only other problem would be predicting what weapon a riven would be tied to, which I feel should be handled with a conjoining idea, but it escapes me at the moment.

As for the effects on the Trade market, I can see a change like this causing an upset due to raw buyouts of an entire Riven weapon set (i.e. Ignis, Akmagnus, etc. etc.), but I don't care to speculate on things out of my purview. 

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11 hours ago, Smurfdaddy said:

That is exactly the missinformation he is talking about... We got no privat version of the semlar bot. We had one that took the information from semlars website. So the bot died with the bann of semlars bots. That is just one of the things tp got wrong. Roughly 50% of what he said was true but the rest was pure fiction/speculation he lazily copied from the subreddit. I didnt even know wth he was talking about most of the time.

Also it is not fair that he tries to go after a entire clan when one player of it makes a mistake. Aswell as the fact that tp intentionaly ignored semlars request to stop this harassment (he cutted that part out when showing a screenshot of semlars latest website update) which makes no sense since he should be supporting his stance if he wishes to help because senlar propably knows most of this situation and can judge it best of us all!

 

If u want deeper insight into the wrong information spreaded pls read the comment of ---PV---Sniga on page 1 again. 

Not buying it, you guys turned around and flipped rivens for INSANE prices after.

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Like what Valaska said, I too will not buy what Smurf and Sniga or any of the guys who were members of the Riven Dealers said. For all we know, you guys are just damage controlling your friend Faceless troubles. The evidence are enough and no amount of your reasoning will change that.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Darkvramp said:

 

Noting that there has been a mafia-style (mob-justice) entity in relation to what is going on, denotes that you see the problem, but are not willing to do much about, because apparently scolding the community based on the honor system, will be a sufficient deterrent to this behavior in the future. You need to actually take action, not sit there and be a guest to potential exploitative behavior on display here. This is YOUR trade market DE, Make it so WE can't use it to EXPLOIT EACH OTHER.

I'd like to just correct you here on something. Mob-justice Rebecca was referring to wasn't the alleged riven mafia. Mob-justice is when a group of people get together and witch hunt someone, thus, an angry mob delivering perceived justice outside of what the system does.

She was pointing out the backlash of harassment that a lot of players let loose on the members of Riven Dealers, without sufficient evidence that all of them were as guilty as their leader.

The only ones who know what really happened are Semlar, Riven Dealers, and DE. And while the community is free to take sides, there is no guarantee that the side we take is the right one. The only facts we have based on presented evidence are: Semlar WAS working on a dangerous bot, and Faceless DID seem to act like an ass.

Does that mean the rest of riven dealers are innocent? No. But it sure is a far cry from damning evidence on all their heads.

What Rebecca was saying was that a case of asshattery cannot and should not be solved by more people engaging in asshattery.

Edited by Revenant0713
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

 

DE simply just throw stat and useless stat  into the rivens, and just make it scale on Disposition, where concerning the fact you can get yourself -140% damage on 5 disposition (which most of them are mediocre or bad weapon) where as you can get -60% damage on 1 disposition simply just goes to show how they handle RNG to begin with, because they made the negative stat scales as high as the positive stat goes.

 

 

I'd like to point out that -100% damage mods have some use if you get creative. I personally don't want that possibility gone.

Edited by Revenant0713

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, (XB1)Wham A Hand said:

I think that "free market" is lost when we impose rules upon it. I'm all for fair trade, but dont confuse the idea of fair trade and free market. 

As a fair trade is determined by the players. They already have to agree. If you aren't wise enough to educate yourself, you shouldn't be playing with free market anyways. There really isnt training wheels anywhere else in this game, why now?

Also, lets remember that free market means no one can tax or control it. 

Then again, maybe ive simply romanticized Dread Pirate Roberts. 

The interest of DE in maintaining fair trade is because in Warframe, a buyer and a seller are both customers of DE. Call them what you like... greedy, slow to learn, stubborn, but DE are actually some of the more consumer-oriented devs out there today. That reputation is one of Warframe's selling points, in fact. So if a customer gets ripped off in-game, regardless of whether or not it was the buyer's fault, DE cannot risk their reputation for taking care of consumers.

A deal may go south because of individual choices but at the end of the day the frustration a buyer feels is only felt because he was using DE's product.

Edited by Revenant0713

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21 minutes ago, Revenant0713 said:

I'd like to point out that -100% damage mods have some use if you get creative. I personally don't want that possibility gone.

The only thing I could think of -100% damage is only using on explosive weapon as effect and use it on captura, but other than that's it

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1 minute ago, Genesix6 said:

The only thing I could think of -100% damage is only using on explosive weapon as effect and use it on captura, but other than that's it

Ember's passive on Javlok with -100% damage is nice too. And The CC still knocks enemies around but doesn't nuke your ass in the process. And the regen to energy goes through eximus auras.

The average Javlok -100% riven is actually pretty expensive.

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