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Riven Trading & Toolbuilders: Coming Changes

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16 hours ago, (XB1)Nittymaster said:

Anybody who would pay 10k plat for any riven needs their head examined.  Plat is in game currency not real money.  No one that I know can put plat in a will or take plat with it them to their graves.

 

You're literally going against free market. If someone wants to pay 10k plat on a riven, then let them be. Besides it's not you with the plat is it? Why do you care if someone wants to pay "x" amount for this "x" riven. 

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50 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

The only thing I could think of -100% damage is only using on explosive weapon as effect and use it on captura, but other than that's it

How about Chroma? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Revenant0713 said:

Ember's passive on Javlok with -100% damage is nice too. And The CC still knocks enemies around but doesn't nuke your ass in the process. And the regen to energy goes through eximus auras.

The average Javlok -100% riven is actually pretty expensive.

Then use cautous shot that reduce the damage taken by 90%, then use other mods that give -damage% as well, like vile acelaration.

Edit: also since javlok is a heat based weapon, maybe the heat resistance mod on Warframe can be used to reduce the damage from javlok. 

Edited by Genesix6

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43 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

How about Chroma? 

Don't really have him since getting all his ingridient is a$$, but if recall his half of his kit relies on getting self damage so you can deal more damage. Since -100%damage on a explosive weapon, you won't be dealing damage at all cause the damage is already 0. Unless you use explosive mod such as thunderbolt and concealed explosive which has fixed damage that cannot be rised or reduce by damage.

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Posted (edited)

Its cool DE is going to provide Semlar data as well as others to produce their results for and base pricing off of.

Users ...  if you're too lazy to figure out the price of something before you buy it... then thats your fault.

Edited by (PS4)SCHEISER
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11 hours ago, KIREEK said:

You must be carefull with the words you use, otherwise you're intentionally calling another player and telling him that he is violating the rules.

Selling something above average (any average) isn't scaming, this is because scaming such as "snipetron vandal is unobtainable in the game, it's an exclusive weapon" is actually a banable offense

If whatever a player is doing is whithin the rules, it cannot be reported and so it's not a scam

I have fix prices for prime gear that follows a 50pl x the number of components in the set and i sell indivitual components as if they are full sets, for example i sell all prime warframes for 200 pl, the players then accept or decline, if you call a seller a scammer for specifing a price that was asked by the buyer, you are directly accusing the player of breaking the rules and like such you need to back it up.

Selling above or below is not a crime but what makes an avarage trader apart from the scammer is the difference.

If an item says "sells for avarage 100 plat" and this guy want to pay 10p or want to sell it to you for 500p thats hella suspicius but wanting to pay only 80p or wanting to sell it for 200p is within an acceptable range.

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19 hours ago, KIREEK said:

huh, you do realize this is mostly pointless, knowing values still doesn't stop players from making the same question that happens in pretty much all trades, they ask "how much?"

The seller then specifies a price and the buyer sees if the budget they have is whitin range. So data on it almost irrelevant, you still need to ask and talk to the seller itself.

Going in to a trade with mentalities and statements such as:

  • "price is X"
  • "you are selling  it to cheap"
  • "you are selling for a value way to high"
  • "your budget is way to high, you shouldn't be buying X item for that much"

These are directly linked with poor trading conduct, even if you have data, you still need to chat with the player, you cannot go out of your way and decide how much someone else should spend on rivens, i'm in charge of my own game and i decide how much i should spend on a specific item, my sugestion is for other players to get this idea straight, to decide on your own, your budgets and your prices and if a trade is good or not for you. Again deciding on your own on your own trades, not the players next to you.

I understand you're trying to fix an issue with botting being used by only some players, but there are thousands of players with dozzens of rivens each, they can't monopolize the market, because many players already do their own decisions, sure they might have been exploiting the nature of the "god rivens" and using bots to quickly nail a good profit, but i don't believe you will be changing much, profit can still be made.

My sugestion is to invest resources into black market dealers and alt accounts for soring rivens, because when high amounts of platinum and primed chamber are involved, there is an oddly coincidence with the black market and nuked accounts, but that's me.

This is about slightly different stuff. Some discord groups have data like this, and don't want to share it to everyone. Creators like Semlar tried to provide such data to new and unexperienced players, so they can decide about what range of price they should be interresting in, when they buy or sell an item. His site didn't set one fixed value to specific rivens, it showed recent prices and gave approximate value they can start with during negotiations. I suppose this is a very good idea to provide such data, to stop artificially increase the value of some mods, to the point when it exceeds a few thousands platinum, while only being worth a piece of the price. 

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18 hours ago, Phatose said:

How exactly will the mechanics of this function? 

Rivens are unique enough that the exact stats are likely to be enough to be uniquely identifiable if you show them, but without exactness, the information is going to be misleading at best. 

How useful can this information actually be?  A change from one affix to another can significantly alter how useful a riven is, and thus you'd expect the price of it.  Even if I have access to every trade made in all of Warframe, what's the chance any particular riven will be a close match for a previous trade?

Plus, trades aren't limited to one riven for X plat - you can trade 3 rivens for a vaulted set, and a mod if you want.  Do you guys intend to show the entire contents of every trade involving a riven?

And is there any version of an argument for needing this for rivens that doesn't also apply for all trades?  If it's important to see all trades to get a fair value on a riven, isn't it also important to see all trades for a fair value on everything else?

I do hope you guys are basing this on your own hard data, server logs, not just accusations.  Just looking over this thread, you can already see a number of places where players are irrationally offended by high prices, even when those prices aren't relevant to them particularly.  Smackdown players purposefully distorting markets both ways - a conspiracy to lower  prices is as bad as a conspiracy to raise them.

It is possible to account for the randomness of rivens. By assigning a weighted value to the properties, based on sale prices with the different stats, it can be determined what an average value for any particular riven should be. I've had to write some algorithms that did similar things and is quite common. If you wanted to take it a step further, you could use regression modeling to predict whether the price should be going up or down.

As far as the trade value, you are correct, but that is easily fixed by limiting one riven to be traded a day. That would prevent behavior that is considered unethical or toxic to the community and allow the price paid to be known. Also, that riven would be the only item allowed in that trade. Simple. Fair. Limiting for people wanting to take advantage of others.

The above method would lower the price of some of the extremely overpriced rivens, but it would also raise the value of others and would be extremely difficult to manipulate in either direction. Me personally, I do not buy rivens. I find it to be a waste, but I have seen experience players take advantage of more inexperienced MANY times. And that needs to be addressed, especially when some people paid real money for plat. That creates a toxic environment and those environments eat away until the game is run into the ground and it is gone forever.

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Posted (edited)
vor 7 Stunden schrieb Genesix6:

[..]

its not better than rivens RNG, thats just ur opinion, again and i disagree.

its the nature of RNG to be a gamble. doesnt matter if u grind bosses in PoE for instance or farm kuva to press a button some time again and i dare say its easier to come by kuva in warframe than getting well enough equip for the higher map runs in PoE. its only wasted time if u give up and if u start rolling rivens its the same with map runs in PoE: if u lose patience after 5 attempts then its not really ur type of content/game because thats part of looter games.

also concerning useless stats: if there is no bad there wont be good and if every stat had the same potential purpose then what are we even talking about here in a thread about the silly riven prices ?

some negatives are just more harmless than others but thats also an opinion in many cases so even there that can be an argument. there are weapons, though few, where i wouldnt want -status duration, -zoom on a sniper is fine but there i would prefer -status dura aside of lanka. on many weapons -reload speed is fine for me where others would cry. -flight speed totally ruins shotguns and projectile weapons. i endo'ed a perfect kohm with -102% PFS when the flight speed changes dropped and that was absolutely totally and undoubtedly a fun button press. some negatives can ruin but thats to be expected tbh. the important topic is what each and everyone values. +flight speed is an argument, true, but thats one stat. +status duration is also not too popular and i only use it on 1 riven where i find it the perfect 3rd stat but still thats opinion and only 1 case. thats only 2 stats though. all other stats are a matter of opinion and builds in the end and even status duration could be used for gas/elect for instance but the nature of that stat makes it already very borderline because its the opposite of increasing DPS and killspeed. it increases ammo efficiency by increasing total status dmg (if its a dmging status ofc) which is a topic in itself for every game where u want to kill hordes of enemies fast and increase a DoT duration. still, 2 arguable stats only and just on some weapons. no risc no gain and the risc part in riven rolling is very minimal aside of invested kuva/time~

if u dont want -recoil +magazine +fire rate on a riven then thats your opinion but there is noone who can really tell u that this is a bad roll if u like/wanted these stats.

Edited by Xydeth

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11 hours ago, (XB1)Wham A Hand said:

I think that "free market" is lost when we impose rules upon it.

Rules? Where are people getting this from?

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So people who did nothing will get info about deals with riven mods, like I saw in Semlar's site - type, name, stats, price. And now with DE support. Well... Wow. This is it. This exactly it.

I remember time, so far from this moment, when prime trash Market was launched. The rays of the rainbow pierced the gloomy sky, people's hearts were filled with kindness, za warudo  was inhabited by colorful sensible ponies and everything became good. And also this was pretty bad time for traders like me. In that period I used trade chat for just spamming one message what contains prime sets with same as other prices and got many messages, pathetic in it existence, what tried making remark about discrepancy with Market prices. It difference was high with lowest offers in Market, but it always was same players and I saw them always next months. Many people didnt think about info what they got on this site, was misinformed and kept misinform other players.

Not long time ago I got message from one rude guy, when I spammed in Euro trade my offer for Primed Chamber. He tried make me blind by his expressive manners and also sense of his message was - I trying buy Primed Chamber for a "penny" for re-sale. He just looked in Market (<- he told me that) info about pricing of that item and thinking its only one, absolutely right and only can existing price. Yes. And yesterday I missed +d +cc +cd +rec Tombfinger RM for 200p. So if each that nonsense prices will public, is rainbow will come again?

People cant perceive properly info about prices, they often dont getting enough info about simple things first and trying make a war about their rightness. Before someone will get any info about riven mod prices, he first should work for that and get answers for related questions. Like who owner of that Lanka Acri-critacan before say its not worth more or less of price.

Any info-bots shouldn't exist. Personal or public. Any resources shouldn't give players info like that. Believe me, if I just one greedy guy - I'll find new ways to get many platinum. But if I guy who get his first top, goddest of doggest, riven mod after years of rolling, think about new opinion in society of Warframe - 1 from million item not worth more than 200p.

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20 hours ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

unless he doesn't know the price himself yet, which is for an hour or two max

See, the problem me and many other players have with trading in Warframe is that I'd rather shoot grineer in the face for an hour or two, not get insulted for trying to buy or sell for a reasonable price. This is why third-party websites that perform the function of what should be a first-party auction house system are great.

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This is the reason i never sold or bought a single riven in this game and never will unless smtg changes. Auction houses can be monopolized very easily, in another mmorpg i played there was a clique or mafia as you call it, that would monopolize the ah to their will, by buying all items in it and reselling it to highest prices, making specific friends buying items from ppl that would refuse to sell them,  so im not saying im against it, i think DE should set somehow max or some tax prices i guess.

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Today I was wisped beacuse I was selling a Nikana Riven at  a "too low" price. This is litteraly a trading cartel. We need an auction house internal the game.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Selling above or below is not a crime but what makes an avarage trader apart from the scammer is the difference.

If an item says "sells for avarage 100 plat" and this guy want to pay 10p or want to sell it to you for 500p thats hella suspicius but wanting to pay only 80p or wanting to sell it for 200p is within an acceptable range.

There are no aceptable ranges, it's a free market

1 hour ago, FragmakerGerwant said:

This is about slightly different stuff. Some discord groups have data like this, and don't want to share it to everyone. Creators like Semlar tried to provide such data to new and unexperienced players, so they can decide about what range of price they should be interresting in, when they buy or sell an item. His site didn't set one fixed value to specific rivens, it showed recent prices and gave approximate value they can start with during negotiations. I suppose this is a very good idea to provide such data, to stop artificially increase the value of some mods, to the point when it exceeds a few thousands platinum, while only being worth a piece of the price. 

Again, it's a free market, you need to accept that, you're still assigning worth and stating that the budget some players have is unfair and shouldn't be that high, you're thinking by someone else's head, it's not your game to manage.

I'm not going to repeat myself everytime someone is still stuck in these lines of tought, you either accept things as they are or you don't and you argue with traders everytime something is outside of what you find reasonable for yourself.

 

Edited by KIREEK

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You shouldn't be allowed to edit a post after 15 mins.

Tired of players "reserving" posts on the 1st page and continue editing them multiple times over the next few days.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you DE for handling the issue, and I am glad you are talking with others to help get proper information spread to the community. The less people we have taking advantage of others, the better. 🙂

Can't remember how many times people have PMed me saying I am selling something for "too low a price". Or me getting told to pay a ridiculous price - and when I refused - the trader would become rude in text. 

Whole lotta "yikes" for people like that.

Edited by Echo

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22 hours ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

<bunch of nonsense>
 

There's actually people supporting this stone age guy? Holy crap lmao.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Yahto said:

It is possible to account for the randomness of rivens. By assigning a weighted value to the properties, based on sale prices with the different stats, it can be determined what an average value for any particular riven should be. I've had to write some algorithms that did similar things and is quite common. If you wanted to take it a step further, you could use regression modeling to predict whether the price should be going up or down. 

As far as the trade value, you are correct, but that is easily fixed by limiting one riven to be traded a day. That would prevent behavior that is considered unethical or toxic to the community and allow the price paid to be known. Also, that riven would be the only item allowed in that trade. Simple. Fair. Limiting for people wanting to take advantage of others.

The above method would lower the price of some of the extremely overpriced rivens, but it would also raise the value of others and would be extremely difficult to manipulate in either direction. Me personally, I do not buy rivens. I find it to be a waste, but I have seen experience players take advantage of more inexperienced MANY times. And that needs to be addressed, especially when some people paid real money for plat. That creates a toxic environment and those environments eat away until the game is run into the ground and it is gone forever.

Where do those weights come from, exactly? 

 

How can a riven possibly be overpriced?  The natural price of something is a synthetic benchmark, based on averages.  If person X is pays a lot of money for an item, and person Y pays less, that doesn't mean person X overpaid - the price X paid gets accounted for in the average price of said item.

I don't trade in rivens simply because I'm not willing to put in the effort required to reach a price as favorable as possible.  Those who do put in that effort don't owe me anything.  Nor does my opinion on what a fair price is amount to anything beyond what trades I myself am willing to make. 

This whole affair stinks of players wanting to lessen the value of other people's goods and labor by yelling about fairness, even though their own valuation is every bit as arbitrary as what they're complaining about.

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1 hour ago, Jackal_Off said:

There's actually people supporting this stone age guy? Holy crap lmao.

I dont support him. I support the truth behind this situation, which everyone seems to be missing as they blindly follow the TacPotato video and the Reddit post. 

If it helps ksilisab posted a video on youtube called the real truth behind semlar and faceless drama. He isn't the best with his words, but the idea is there.

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3 minutes ago, ---PV---Sniga said:

I dont support him. I support the truth behind this situation, which everyone seems to be missing as they blindly follow the TacPotato video and the Reddit post. 

If it helps ksilisab posted a video on youtube called the real truth behind semlar and faceless drama. He isn't the best with his words, but the idea is there.

Good to hear. I can understand that Semlar was coming out with a paid "Riven Hunter" app and that someone impersonated Faceless, but in no way am I going to defend the guy. He showed his true colors in the chat log with Semlar.

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21 hours ago, .DF.Zeus. said:

I suggest an XML file updated every 120seconds with all the Riven data for sale.

As a tag I would like to have :

  • Name of Riven
  • Kind of weapon
  • Positive Stat n. 1
  • Positive Stat n. 2
  • Positive Stat n. 3
  • Negative Stat
  • MR
  • Rank
  • Number of roll
  • Polarity
  • Seller IGN
  • Publication Date/Time

Thanks for attention
.DF.Zeus.

What kind of caveman still uses XML? JSON is a much better format, heck, even YAML is a better format.

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2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

There are no aceptable ranges, it's a free market

A free market where every sane person apart from the newbies who dont know better will call you a scammer if you try to sell Flow for 200p.

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