We need to talk, DE.

[ObviousLee]

Before I begin, allow me to clarify some things.

 

• I am very angry about Hildryn.
• I constantly hear about not wanting fames to step on one another, and yet I see the exact opposite happening.
• Favoritism is not good for anyone when it comes from the creators side.

Now then, Please help me understand why it is that Hildryn can fly?

 

I understand why Titania can fly, she's a fairy. Makes sense. So please help me understand why a frame that has zero avionic thematics can ALSO fly, but zephyr still cannot fly.

It's honestly at this point starting to feel like there is some personal grudge against a fan created frame that Y'all took into the game and made a part of it.

I want to hear some actual justification from you, Digital Extremes, Why you've decided to either neglect or outright spurn Zephyr. I need to understand why it is you took the first warframe capable of something resembling flight, and turned her into a hovering turkey that has to min/max build around a 1 skill as to avoid the animation locks that you yourselves put into her tailwind skill.

 

"But Lee! She's super good on the plains and orb valis!" Yea, I get that. That's not the overwhelming majority of content though is it? If you want to use tailwind in the majority of the game, you need to diminish your duration to avoid being stuck headfirst into walls or enemies. Max duration in anywhere but massive open world playspaces, thanks specifically to the animation lock of tailwind, means absolutely no chance to alter ones direction of travel. So, you're stuck if you panick or misjudge your angles. This wasn't an issue before her "rework" as one could manually tap out of the animation via sprint key. This is no longer the case.

 

So, again, to anyone at Digital Extremes, please help me understand why it is you have left an aviation/wind themed warframe in a borderline decrepit state which is entirely dependent upon the area she's fighting in for her mobility "flight" skill to work, but you've not only made that same mechanic better on Titania, but you've also given a flight mode similar to what several have asked tailwind to be, but on a shield themed warframe.

 

Not saying it is what it is, but it sure as hell feels like a slap in the face due to a frame not being liked by the developers. So if this is the case, please help me understand the how and why of this apparent misconception.

 

I truly hope that I am incorrect, but the inconsistency in this particular matter bothers me immensely. Hope to hear back from you.

-Lee

Please understand my anger is at the lack of clarification as to why they have given not one but two frames superior methods of flight and leave Zephyr for the most part untouched.

 

Link to my original post regarding how to handle tailwinds issues of flight a year ago.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by ObviousLee

[moooooski]

Man the games free u getting frames if u don't like it don't play it simple its free don't complain.

[THeMooN85]

7 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

help me understand why a frame that has zero avionic thematics can ALSO fly

She's not flying ... she's floats thanks to her ability... read about magnetic field. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by THeMooN85

[ObviousLee]

Just now, moooooski said:

Man the games free u getting frames if u don't like it don't play it simple its free don't complain.

You odn't understand how feedback works, do you?

The game itself is free, sure. But people still put money into it. If you're ok with someone making a unpalatable product, then you're probably the best customer in the world to any business.

 

As it stands, when statements are made from a source that creates a specific content that people pay money for(needed or not) it behooves the creator of said content to put the best effort forward or they won't make money.

 

So, pointing out inconsistencies like this, is kinda the exact reason feedback threads are even allowed.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, THeMooN85 said:

SHe's not flying ... she's floating thanks to her ability... read about magnetic field. 

Hovering, and hover is a method of flight.

[moooooski]

Atleast play the frame b4 judging it.

[THeMooN85]

3 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Hovering, and hover is a method of flight.

OK, so you are going to argue about that... I'm done here. Bye.

Edited March 7, 2019 by THeMooN85

[K4RN4]

Why do you say, that Zephyr can't fly, she can fly just like a bird. Perform an action every now and then and float for a while in-between. Birds flap their wings and zephyr does the same by using her 1. What's the diffrence?

[ObviousLee]

Just now, moooooski said:

Atleast play the frame b4 judging it.

I'm not judging the frame. Did you even read the OP? I'm upset that a frame themed around shileds, has a flight ability when a warframe that is THEMED AROUND FLIGHT has little to no actual flight aside from a janky system that unless one diminishes a stat that benefits the rest of her kit cannot be effectively used in the majority of the game.

 

Just now, THeMooN85 said:

OK, so you are going to arguing about that... I'm done here. Bye.

Yes, I will argue about the correct definitions being used by the developers themselves that match actual real world identifiers. So since DE are the ones who made the determination I'm not sure why you've an issue with it.

 

[Wrum]

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

Hovering, and hover is a method of flight.

hovering is not flight, hovering is something flying things can do but it is not flight. you can make magnets hover but they dont fly. also you are blowing up about nothing.

[Daskrieg]

Think of zephyr as something like a chicken, they are birds and mainly tend to be ground based.

Yes it does not seems like it makes much sense why titania can actually fly when zephyr the bird frame can do controlled glides but think of it this way, they have titania operating off of the archwing setup which means in the plains or orb valis YOU ARE OPEN TO AA FIRE, first thing I intend to do with hildren is test and see if that is also the case since I am pretty sure people will complain to no end if they try and role play as an Apache attack chopper and get shot out of the air by AA turrets in the plains.

In this aspect I do not mind how they have zephyr and titania setup, since not all birds are always flying hence why I used chickens as an example.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, K4RN4 said:

Why do you say, that Zephyr can't fly, she can fly just like a bird. Perform an action every now and then and float for a while in-between. Birds flap their wings and zephyr does the same by using her 1. What's the diffrence?

the difference is her 1 when not charged is just propulsion along a particular vector. you cannot adjust it in transit. there is literally no controlled flight to her kit. The carge? I hate to say it but the way I see her tailwind charge is nothing more than a joke. You charge up for three seconds to do what you COULD do just by jumping and holding aimglide, BUT you have more mobility than you would if you charged tailwind.

The charge is effectively worthless as it can be accomplished easier and faster with minimal drawbacks just by holding your aim while in the air.

 

[Duality52]

In before after Wisp gets released, Titania won't get a unique walking/sprinting animation.

I seriously hope that's not the case.

[ObviousLee]

2 minutes ago, Wrum said:

hovering is not flight, hovering is something flying things can do but it is not flight. you can make magnets hover but they dont fly. also you are blowing up about nothing.

magnets require a magnetic field to be isolated in its current along predetermined pathings in order to facilitate controlled oppositional forces of magnetism. Hyldrn does not follow those laws based on whats been presented from her kit. but that could be updated upon release.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

Has the creator of Zephyr said anything on the subject? Its a fan frame and if the creator has said no to flying it might shed some light on the subject. If the response is "yes (s)he was ment to fly" then that changes things.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Has the creator of Zephyr said anything on the subject? Its a fan frame and if the creator has said no to flying it might shed some light on the subject. If the response is "yes (s)he was ment to fly" then that changes things.

the original concept of zephyr did in fact contain ideas and moves that would facilitate controlled flight, but was not taken in by DE when they incorporated the frame as their own.

[(PSN)dursereg]

6 minutes ago, Wrum said:

hovering is not flight, hovering is something flying things can do but it is not flight. you can make magnets hover but they dont fly. also you are blowing up about nothing.

Not familiar with helicopters huh?

[ObviousLee]

Just now, (PS4)dursereg said:

Not familiar with helicopters huh?

Thank you so much for this.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Several people posted the same idea simultaneously, no need to have an attitude.

If it came across as such, apologies. Not my intent to cause discord amongst conversational partners, but I'd prefer it if we stayed on topic and assumed everyone participating in the conversation has a functioning brain till proven otherwise. things get messy otherwise.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

If it came across as such, apologies. Not my intent to cause discord amongst conversational partners, but I'd prefer it if we stayed on topic and assumed everyone participating in the conversation has a functioning brain till proven otherwise. things get messy otherwise.

Here's a radical new concept: Maybe changing your extremely click-bait title to something that clearly communicates what the thread is even about might help things stay on track.

[PoisonHD]

Just gonna say, Hildryn has sort of a "Space Trooper" theme to me, so hovering and flying fits it quite well. Anyway, I agree that Zephyr is in a terrible state still, and needs some sort of update to let her fly, or semi-fly.

Edited March 7, 2019 by PoisonHD

[ObviousLee]

Just now, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Here's a radical new concept: Maybe changing your extremely click-bait title to something that clearly communicates what the thread is even about might help things stay on track.

That's the thing. This isn't clickbait. this is a genuine question into the motives of the developers of a game I've put a lot of time effort love and money into. I want to understand why they've seen fit to make the decisions they've made. I want to understand the exact reasoning why it is they've given a frame with no relatable features to a mechanic that a warframe t should have due to its aligning mechanics.

 

Titania: flying fairy frame=makes sense.

Zephyr: not-so-flying wind/aviation themed warframe=makes way less more sense.

Hyldrn: Shield themed warframe that has a flight mode=wat.jpg

 

This is my issue.This is what I need to understand. And this is why I need DE to clarify for me.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

the original concept of zephyr did in fact contain ideas and moves that would facilitate controlled flight, but was not taken in by DE when they incorporated the frame as their own.

To my understanding the flight of then was that Zephyr would go up and hover where in you would have to use the ability again to hover in the direction you wished to travel. Similar to how it is now though I imagine the original concept of the time would be longer then it currently is. That said I wouldn't exactly call the concept flight while it certainly seams similar to what Hildren has I would still say what Zephyr is currently able to do still falls within the realms of the original design. The fallowing is a quote from the old archived post.

Quote

Zephyr launches himself into the air and is airborne for a period of time. During this time Zephyr floats above the ground at a specific height and the player can control his movement via the WASD keys, or thrust forward and aim the direction with the mouse. Each keystroke Zephyr will thrust in that specific direction until the abilities timer is out; down, forwards, backwards, left, and right. Or the player can not press any direction and only hover in place.

 

[-QUILL_PETER-]

11 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

That's the thing. This isn't clickbait. this is a genuine question into the motives of the developers of a game I've put a lot of time effort love and money into. I want to understand why they've seen fit to make the decisions they've made. I want to understand the exact reasoning why it is they've given a frame with no relatable features to a mechanic that a warframe t should have due to its aligning mechanics.

 

Titania: flying fairy frame=makes sense.

Zephyr: not-so-flying wind/aviation themed warframe=makes way less more sense.

Hyldrn: Shield themed warframe that has a flight mode=wat.jpg

 

This is my issue.This is what I need to understand. And this is why I need DE to clarify for me.

Because it's their game and they have creative freedom to make whatever they want for whatever reason they see fit?
Making Zephyr be able to fly as freely as you want may sound good paper, but remember most of Warframe still takes place in tight, enclosed corridors. Granting a 6 foot tall bird monster the ability to fly at full speed through tight spaces and right angles would be absurd, counter intuitive, and a waste of time and resources.
At least, that would be my best guess.
Neither of these things are issues for the other two, as Titania shrinks, giving her room to fly, and Hyldrin seems to move quite slow so maneuvering around tight areas shouldn't be problem like it would be for Zephyr.

Edited March 7, 2019 by -QUILL_PETER-
Grammar

[InDueTime-EN-]

25 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

I want to hear some actual justification

Titania is the justification. If they didn't give zephyr flight in her remake, which came after Titania, it is unlikely that Hyldrin would change that. Zephyr's artthetic theme may be "birb", but that's not what her moveset dictates. Her them is wind. Wind control and wind pressure. 

 

30 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

tailwind

How many first are truly useful in all situations? Tailwind primary action can still be useful when it comes to traversal, even if it is much harder to control and may usually cause you to crash into walls. Compare that to Ember's fireblast which is really just useful in early game, what about tesla? spectral scream? 

 

Zephyr is still thematic, and although there may be some changes needed to improve her, but flight is not a requirement for her.
 

An alternative suggestion would be for her passive to make her hover on aim rather than aim glide and just remove the secondary function of tailwind. This would make it easier to use and it would benefit from parkour mods.