Oberon - Changes to Renewal

[TehGrief]

I've seen a couple forums so far discussing possible changes and wanted to give my thoughts and input on the subject.

In this thread I will specifically be focusing on Oberon's ability, "Renewal".

Renewal was changed to operate as a field of healing which is permanent (channeled) until deactivated. Renewal uses these following relevant stats for this discussion:

> Default Ability range 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 meters - furthermore, the ability range starts at Oberon himself and slowly expands outward.

> Default channeling cost drains 2 energy/s JUST to stay active, while additionally draining 3 energy/s for each other player, and 1 energy/s for each other non-player ally (syndicate operatives, defection hostages, player companions, Nekros' shadows, and many other warframe summoned NPCs.)

> Default ability location is locked to the origin of activation location (i.e, wherever Oberon activates Renewal is where Renewal stays. 

Keep in mind as we go through these discussions that these numbers are subject to change for balance purposes. These are merely placeholders for more realistic numbers. 

My first suggestion is that we bring Oberon more into line with other healing frames by changing his range from a maximum of 25m Radius to be based on Affinity Range, similar to how Trinity's Blessing and Harrow's Covenant operate. Doing so will offer a more reliable coverage with the ability while offering the thematic synergy with the Tenno school of healing, Vazarin (specifically the "Mending Unity" passive.) Please look at the third point below for more details on this change.

Secondly, one of the main concerns that always seems to be voiced is how dependent Oberon is on large energy pools. The cost to continuously channel Renewal drains far too much energy. 
The user @Koend has brought up this very same issue in his thread (Oberon Renewal problem - Koend) where he voices his concern towards larger groups of allied NPCs; even if you specifically mod your Oberon to be built for a sustained Renewal, it drains much too quick. The default channeling cost of 2 energy/s should be removed from Renewal; the drain should only occur when the ability is actively healing an ally.

The third change, and possibly the most important change to occur, is for the ability to centered off of Oberon himself, rather than the point of Origin. For those of you who did not know, myself included, when Oberon activates his Renewal, it creates a field of healing that centers around the point of origin (where the ability was activated) instead of acting as an aura centered around Oberon. 
While this ability operates fine within the Defense mission types, this is devastating for any mission that requires you to be mobile, as two major problems will present themselves:

- First, the ability does NOT have max range when it is first cast, meaning that it will take precious time to reach its full range and proper coverage of the team. 
- Second, since the ability does not follow Oberon, the ability must be first cancelled, then recast wherever you believe it to be convenient. Meaning that once again, Oberon will likely fail as a proper team healer.

If the ability is changed to be centered on Oberon, it would allow for him to be much more mobile as you run through the various more mobile mission types.
(*For a more detailed thread discussing this specific ability ruling, please consult user @Dabiir's thread - Slight Renewal tweak for convenience - Dabiir)
 

 

TLDR;
> Change Renewal ability range to be based on Affinity Range; as to bring it in line with other healing related skills already in game.
> Remove the default channeling cost of Renewal (2 energy/s), ability only drains energy when healing allies.
> Change Renewal to act as an aura centered around Oberon, to allow for use in the more mobile mission types / free-roam / open-world maps.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Unlike other healing abilities Oberon heals overtime regardless of range. The initial area is relatively small by the potential range for healing is limitless.

 

[WhiteMarker]

10 minutes ago, TehGrief said:

> Change Renewal to act as an aura centered around Oberon, to allow for use in the more mobile mission types / free-roam / open-world maps.

The current Renewal works way better in these missions, because people don't have to stay near you.

And the costs are fine. Maybe change your build, if you run out of energy.

[TehGrief]

5 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

The current Renewal works way better in these missions, because people don't have to stay near you.

I fail to see any mission type outside of Defense and MAYBE Mobile Defense where the current mechanics work better; that's simply not true.

Can you please explain further what you could possibly mean by your response?

Most missions involve the party moving around the map to complete objectives. whether it's extermination, spy, survival, etc. you're generally moving around and rarely staying in one place. This is why having the aura centered on Oberon would allow for him to move with the party and continually provide support. This makes the mechanic less clunky, as currently you have to deactivate and reactivate the ability to place it in a new area.

The one thing I am really confused about was where you mentioned that they don't have to stay near you... The AoE is invisible... you cannot actually see it; you would have to walk within it and look for the buff on your UI to even see that you were being affected by it. If they ever lost the buff, you would have to deactivate and reactivate it.

If a player using Oberon's Renewal wanted to cover the party, he could move alongside them to provide the support; thus the change that I'm requesting.

 

 

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Unlike other healing abilities Oberon heals overtime regardless of range. The initial area is relatively small by the potential range for healing is limitless.

 

While the buff is applied the ally can be mobile for as long as the ability is active, yes. However, the trouble starts when you enter any mission with Nullifiers; as soon as your ally is touched by the nullifier they lose the buff from the active Renewal, meaning that you must deactivate and reactivate for them to get it back, as you've likely moved on from the point of origin.

If the ability acted as an aura around Oberon it would move with him. Allowing allies who have lost the buff by dying, falling off the map, or being nullified to regain the buff as they come close to you. 

[WhiteMarker]

8 hours ago, TehGrief said:

I fail to see any mission type outside of Defense and MAYBE Mobile Defense where the current mechanics work better; that's simply not true.

Can you please explain further what you could possibly mean by your response?

You activate the skill. Everyone in your team gets it. You are done.
No more activating it. No more watching your team. The ability does its job.
You team can run to the end of the mission while you stay at the beginning. The ability will do its job.
There is no need for Oberon to be near his team. Or the other way around, the team doesn't have to stay near Oberon.
To say it simple: Do you have to deal with range. (Aside from the activation, but this is just a minor "issue")

If your change takes place, we would always have to deal with range. And range is quite the issue when it comes to open world maps...

And let's be real: If your team doesn't want to wait for you to activate the skill at the beginning, then your mates clearly don't need/want the heal...

8 hours ago, TehGrief said:

This makes the mechanic less clunky, as currently you have to deactivate and reactivate the ability to place it in a new area

This right here tells me that you have no idea how Oberon's Renewal works.
This sounds harsh, but you have no clue.
Renewal has to things to it. When you activate it, a circle appears. If one of your team-mates is inside the circle, or steps into the circle at a later point in time, the get the Renewal-Buff. This buff is healing over time. If you are standing on Oberon's Hollowed Ground while being in the circle, you will get an armor buff and the healing buff.
These buffs only run out if the ability is deactivated (if energy runs out, or if Oberon cancels it, or if he dies etc.), or if the team-mate gets it deactivated (dying, Nullifiers, stuff like that)
If your team isn't completely stupid, you don't have to reactivate the ability ever. And with Phoenix Renewal even dying is less of a problem...

Edited March 8, 2019 by WhiteMarker

[TehGrief]

@WhiteMarker

9 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

This right here tells me that you have no idea how Oberon's Renewal works.
This sounds harsh, but you have no clue.

You've gone and made quite the accusation... I have played an extensive amount of Oberon, I mained him on Xbox before they changed Renewal from a projectile to a field of healing. Before even making this post I read into the ability mechanics to ensure my theories were correct.

I understand that all that your team mates need to do is touch the circle of healing to have the buff, then they are free to leave. Again, the issue is that if your teammate dies, falls of the map, gets hit by nullifier, etc. they CANNOT gain a buff from the current Renewal again. To gain the buff again would be for the Oberon to recast the ability; this is objectively clunky, since logically, as long as you were to get close enough to the Oberon you should be able to pick up the buff again.

However, perhaps I am not explaining it well enough, which is why you're failing to understand what I am trying to say. What I want to change about the ability is for:

>  Activation for the circle of healing (which is currently stationary on the ground where he originally activates it) to move with Oberon (centered on his character model like an aura.)

> Allies entering this aura radius (or... in the case of losing the buff to dying, falling of the map, getting hit by nullifier, etc. re-entering) gain the Renewal buff. They are able to leave this area and retain the buff - EXACT same way it works now.

Truly... the only difference is that the ability follows Oberon. 

[Koend]

The only problem i encounter with renewal is with the shadows from nekros. 

they loose health constantly and burn ur energy.

One possible solution is; if shadows come from an abilitie, renewal treat shadows as that abilitie, so 4 or 7 shadows count as 1 player for renewal. This will consume energy but in the right proportion, because in the current state, my build is full efficiency/duration and max energy pool and shadows burn all the pool in 2-3 seconds.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

The only change renewal needs is to be duration based rather than energy drain, and be able to be recasted.

[(PSN)Quite_the_Cactus]

10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

The only change renewal needs is to be duration based rather than energy drain, and be able to be recasted.

I'm curious to know why you think Renewal should be duration based rather than channeled. What makes you say this?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Maverael said:

I'm curious to know why you think Renewal should be duration based rather than channeled. What makes you say this?

Blessing....

Blessing heals better, faster, and it has a duration that gives damage resistance.

Oberon renewal costs more and gives less.

Edited March 10, 2019 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)Quite_the_Cactus]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Blessing....

Blessing heals better, faster, and it has a duration that gives damage resistance.

Oberon renewal costs more and gives less.

Ah, I see what you mean. Blessing is a pretty strong heal, though it does require that you be paying attention to the team's health bars. I personally like the more passive nature of his heal, although he definitely needs some power strength to heal at a respectable rate.

In regards to the OP, I agree that Renewal is difficult to keep on teammates sometimes. Generally, I can catch everyone with one cast at the beginning of a mission, and it's all fun n games until someone falls down a pit or I run out of energy (an especially likely scenario if there is a Nekros with his shadows hanging around, because yes Oberon healing all 7 of Nekros' shadows is still a thing).

I've seen the idea of Renewal's initial casting area should be marked by foliage of some sort, which I think fits with Oberon's support style and theme. Having the marker up as long as Oberon had energy or had the ability active would be nice. Recasting the ability could just relocate the garden to that spot, and as Dabiir suggested, holding the button could deactivate Renewal.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 2019-03-10 at 12:19 AM, (PS4)Maverael said:

Ah, I see what you mean. Blessing is a pretty strong heal, though it does require that you be paying attention to the team's health bars. I personally like the more passive nature of his heal, although he definitely needs some power strength to heal at a respectable rate.

In regards to the OP, I agree that Renewal is difficult to keep on teammates sometimes. Generally, I can catch everyone with one cast at the beginning of a mission, and it's all fun n games until someone falls down a pit or I run out of energy (an especially likely scenario if there is a Nekros with his shadows hanging around, because yes Oberon healing all 7 of Nekros' shadows is still a thing).

I've seen the idea of Renewal's initial casting area should be marked by foliage of some sort, which I think fits with Oberon's support style and theme. Having the marker up as long as Oberon had energy or had the ability active would be nice. Recasting the ability could just relocate the garden to that spot, and as Dabiir suggested, holding the button could deactivate Renewal.

Keep the passive healing just make it duration based and recast able before duration runs out.

[birdobash]

I like the part about centering the renewal origin fixed into oberon, as of now if oberon were to cast renewal the renewal refreshing zone remains at its location, but is completely invisible, meaning allies unless they specifically waypoint the area where you last cast renewal wont be able to get the buff again. With that change all teammates would have to do would be to find the oberon on the team and run over to him, instead of playing hide and seek with the last cast of asking him to recast renewal (which most of the time is detrimental to the rest of the team because now the previous renewal on them has been taken off if you recast)

Edited March 11, 2019 by birdobash

[TehGrief]

After continued testing with Oberon's Renewal ability, I wanted to add some further points to my original post. 
 

• Any mission with Corpus units (Nullifier Crewman / Corrupted Nullifier / Nul Scrambus / Comba) make consistently using Renewal a HUGE issue. Even if Oberon himself manages to avoid the bubbles, allies CANNOT regain the original Renewal buff. The Oberon must first deactivate then reactivate the ability, even if only one out of four allies has lost the buff.
• Kavats and Kubrows are most susceptible to losing the buff, as they will always attempt to melee the above mentioned Corpus units.
• The same is true for allies that fall off of any map (easier to do than it seems - doing this obviously doesn't make you any less of a good player.)

To reiterate, I think it's important for the changes to be implemented to avoid the negative game-play aspects present in current builds that use Renewal.

• Firstly, allow allies to regain the Renewal buff if they've lost it.
• Then, change the field of healing to be an aura around Oberon (moves with him), allies within affinity range should gain the Renewal buff (synergizes with Mending Unity).

It was actually painful running with a squad (even in Defense missions, where it should have worked flawlessly...) where one of the players would lose the buff; it was obviously inconvenient for everybody to try and get the buff back onto that one person.

 

And before I hear another remark along the lines of...

On 2019-03-08 at 2:44 AM, WhiteMarker said:

let's be real: If your team doesn't want to wait for you to activate the skill at the beginning, then your mates clearly don't need/want the heal...

These buffs only run out if the ability is deactivated (if energy runs out, or if Oberon cancels it, or if he dies etc.), or if the team-mate gets it deactivated (dying, Nullifiers, stuff like that)
If your team isn't completely stupid, you don't have to reactivate the ability ever. And with Phoenix Renewal even dying is less of a problem...

Being a healer on a team (random or constructed) means that you're able to apply the support when it is required, NOT when that team member believes it is required (whether or not they actually need it at the moment.) There are far too many variables involved in the safety of yourself and teammates - you can never be to safe! Being able to carry the buff and simply go "tag" a teammate that requires it makes far more sense than the current system.

I want to thank each of you for the support and input towards this idea - thank you for your time!