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[DE]Danielle

Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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Posted (edited)

Here's my 2 cents.

First, before the update my controls were heavily reconfigured to match the old system, and so far I keep messing up the new usage, so maybe that's why it's awkward. 

But either way - I see an easy way to fix a lot of problems by simply giving more customization to the controls. I'm very thankful for the toggle to allow to melee with left click. But I would like it to go further. Gives us a toggle that disables drawing primary weapon on right-click for example. A toggle that disables switching between gun/melee without my bound key (sometimes the game just decides to switch them at seemingly random times, don't know how Im triggering it or if it's a bug). That sort of thing. Maybe the new system is a little unintuitive too. But since there are people who use melee (do combat in general) in various ways, I feel like customization options/toggles for various functions are key here to make most people enjoy the game.

Edited by Scissorsmith
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My issues with melee 2.(whatever), summarised:

  • Stance melee attacks nearly always seem to force your character to either move or to hold still at some point in the combo. Quick melee attacks never over-rode your movement key inputs. Quick attacks are therefore superior because a) you were free to keep up pursuit of a target while you hit them to ensure that all hits landed, b) you were free to manoeuvre around the target while you attacked to use your current target as a shield against incoming fire or to position yourself to hit more enemies at once with your strikes; and c) you were free to disengage at will at any point during combat.

This is no longer possible. This is my single biggest gripe with the new system - that the game now takes control away from you when you use melee attacks.

  • Because I'm now in stance melee mode all the time, I'm no longer free to move around or to pause a strike until the enemy is close enough - because movement inputs and timing will often put me in to some kind of combo.

Again, this is extremely bad. Not only does my character stop moving at random while attacking, if I try to move in a different direction then I might end up seeing my character do something utterly ridiculous. It's pretty often that you'll take a couple of swings, stop a bit because the target's out of range and then resume once you're closer. This is especially prominent now that stance mode has been forced on us and that we can't keep control over our characters while swinging on approach. Pause combos ruin even this, and directional combos also get in the way - say I feel the need to back off a little, I might suddenly find myself leaping forward because that's how the combo input works (one of the staff stances, I forget which).

  • When you emptied your magazine with an enemy right next to you, you could sword them to death and because your gun was still equipped, the reload process would begin automatically once you were finished swording. This is much more apparent for single-round magazine weapons such as the Exergis (definitely the Exergis, as it's a shotgun and you're more likely to see enemies in close range while using it) or Vectis, and you might even have chosen the Redeemer (or Glaive?) to pair with the Vectis as a way of hitting close enemies without having to swap to pistol or change position.

This no longer happens. Because it forces your sword to become active, the reload process doesn't automatically start on its own. You can't press the reload button either - you need to actively zoom in while not striking to bring back the weapon. This is clunky and breaks the combat flow.

  • You can't punch something and then immediately use your weapon's alt-fire on some other enemy because again - your sword is actively wielded. Very prominent in the case of the Corinth.

Self-explanatory - no alt-fire on your gun because the game forced you to stop wielding your gun. This also breaks the combat flow and makes things very clunky.

  • You can't use a weapon or the codex scanner to center your view for rapid repeated redeemer or glaive shots any more. Previously, you could hold zoom to get a nice centered picture of your target and then hold the melee button to charge and fire. Doing this now just makes you swing once.

 

In conclusion: I don't want my melee weapon to be actively wielded. Whenever we had a melee only sortie, the first thing I did was to bring out the scanner so that I was still in quick melee mode. Combos are a flat downgrade from quick melee, the only use for blocking was taken out of the game a year ago (when standing on the door pads in raids) and it breaks gunplay.

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Posted (edited)

Reposting from a thread I made before seeing this one. Probably no one will see this, but I might as well try and have my opinion heard.

I quite like the new melee system, but not as a replacement for melee, but instead quick melee. I think that they should still have the 'hold F' to change to the old melee system, but keep the new one as a quick melee option. I can't tell you how many times I've dropped (and lost) the Thermia Canisters while flying cause I don't use pistols, but that sounds like more of my problem then a problem with the new system, but still, I'd like the option to use the old system, while keeping the new melee as a form of quick attack. But that's just my thoughts, I'm sure others really enjoy it as is, and don't want the old melee system back. If that's the case, I'll just get used to it. But I figured I might as well give my opinion, for whatever that's worth. Also fix the Arca Titron. I hate that it now sends enemies flying instead of just shocking them in place. Keeping the enemies in place made it the most fun melee in the game IMO, and with the new aimed slams, would make the Tactical Nuke part of it really good.

Edited by 0HoofHearted0
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My current issues with melee 2.9 is all of the melee only equipped bugs going on right now, with no statement on when it will be fixed.

These are easy to repeat bugs, that make it impossible to play if you're doing certain tasks. Both host/not host are affected.
Want to scan a target? Well, now your block brings out the scanner instead of blocking. Every time.
Want to fish, or mine? Now melee blocks instead. If you go to block after that, it swaps back to the spear/mining lazer while your melee blocks, causing an interruption to ability use.

For not host bugs, which again is incredibly easy to replicate..
Simply try to aimglide and unblock during the aimglide. You'll find it's "sticky" and does not want to let go.
Block while standing on the ground, your weapon will "twitch", and also does not want to let go.
You can make the melee let go in both instances by attacking, but it's not often you want to slash the air, and it interrupts parkour.

These bugs only happen if the only equipped item is a melee weapon.

I'm aware I keep repeating myself with these bugs - but I very badly want DE to see this, and I'm quite scared they aren't even aware it's an issue since they released it like this on the weekend, and again - there's no statement on any of this, beyond the very broad blanket statement from before the fishing/mining melee bugs appeared.

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Hirudo and Brutal Tide feedback.

Hirudo and BT have been my absolute fav melee weapon since and began playing Warframe, getting teh Nidus back right away.

The Hirudo was great damage, fast as hell, good crits, and more importantly..LOOKED totally awesome and buzzsaw like, scything side to side swings, like a big blending buzzsaw. I only evee used the E 'quick melee' button to fight, since I didn't like putting ranged weapons away. The other BIG problem for me..the animations used the 'full melee' were just so..crap? Well not crap..but basically someone having a fit while tripping on something illegal, and trying to breakdance, all at once. The way teh feet were used too, made the whole thing have to actually land multiple attacks, since you seemed to just bounce around mode than..you know..just hitting stuff.

And now..with teh new melee, the Hirudo/BT is like this ALL THE TIME. I can't explain how bad it feels, after the awesome old melee blender mode, but now I am basically dance fighting and constantly ending up facing walls, since the animations just spin we round like a nutter. It even happens just with ONE press of the attack button, not only in combos, and feels so jerky and awful.

I have actually used a Forma to change the stance into the other Fist stance mod, since those animations are more like teh old back and forth ones.

On a technical side, like for Attack Speed, I have my Hirudo with Primed Fury..and the BT 'dance' animations still seem very slow and..floaty. I assume the attack speed changes the speed of the animations..so with an unenhanced speed, they would look even worse!

Can we have a way to NOT have thew new animations? 😞

😦

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-03-08 at 7:33 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

Let The Gun & Blade Flow

Swap between your gun and melee at the press of a button, no holstering required! Combos can be executed and resumed between movement and more. Blocking is now automatic in melee mode when aiming at an attacking enemy. Your stance combos may have changed, check out the Stance interface!

 

I believe the instant switching is very jarring, the lack of holstering makes it feel cheap, if our warframe is capable of switch teleporting between melee and gun, why can't he do that with gun and another gun? 

I personally found the instant switching poorly implemented and immersion breaking. 

Suggestion :

Quick shot and quick melee hybrid transition state. 

Explanation:

Instead of insta switch a gradual change from melee to gun and vice versa would be more aesthetically and visually pleasing. It would also be functionally better according to me. This would happen by means of a hybrid transition state during which you could switch to either state more fluidly. It will also depend on a little context sensitivity. 

Mechanics:

If you are already in gun mode :

Aim using RMB, shoot using LMB, reload using reload button

If an enemy is in melee range and you press melee button , you do one quick melee and enter transition state, 

Transition state

Your reticle changes to look like a hybrid of gun and melee reticle, you will hold your melee in left hand and the gun will be hip holstered (not put away just less in your face) 

Now is decision time,

if you press melee attack again you will be fully entering melee mode and the attack will be first attack of the combo, 

You will fully holster your gun and start using melee full time. 

If you had used aim or shot the gun while in transition state you would holster the melee and go back to gun state. 

If you are already in melee mode:

Attack using melee button, auto block as intended in current update, 

Pressing reload causes a punch / kick attack which breaks combo but can open enemy to finishers. 

Pressing LMB will trigger a hip shot (melee reticle is sufficient indicator for aiming roughky) , which will put you in transition state, 

Then it's decision time again. And you can switch as suggested above. 

You can continue your previous combo if you go back to melee from transition state. 

If you perform no further actions for more than 1 Second you will enter the state you had before the transition happened. 

Animation will need to be controlled and structured for 2h, 1h, akimbo and specialized weapons to appear fluid (your current transition is far too binary for my taste) . 

Edited by 0_The_F00l
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Posted (edited)

Okay, I played enough to have good suggestions, and examples why the new melee don't work well.

So first of all, the problems:

You are now forced to use your stance instead of the old Quick Melee (QM for now) system. You guys wanted to make the gun and sword play more fluent, but somehow it just more like against the flow than everything before, because the stance contains halting or unexpected moves. Not to mention, if the combo animation is still going you can't switch back to your weapon.
Compared to the old QM these situations consume more time than the little animation when you stoped using QM.
Oh right, animation. As someone who have some knowledge about animation it's just pain to see the way your weapons just pop up in your hands after pushing a mouse button. Looks super clumsy and cheap for me. Why you want that? We can get back to our weapons with 5 buttons by accident. With QM you still had that flow advantage, you just pushed the E button, sliced them up, and automaticly get back to your firearm.

Now let's see that from reverse. You just want to slice up something, but use your firearm after that.
NOPE. You forced in the stance/combo thing. You just can't stop the combo, and you are forced in the animation.
It may be not a problem if there is a lot of enemy, and your stance don't make unnecessary jumps. However, if you focus just one target, you can easily jump the target over, halt in the middle of movements or just start spinning away. Of course, there is a plenty of melee weapons what have a good stance and combo pack for a single target, but what abot the other +20 melee weapon? Not to mention if you don't want to combo you must slide while slicing, and this is a potential for a repetative non-stop coptering era. The unique melee based Warframe abilities also looks clunky and buggy.

Now let's see the Auto-Block and the Bugs.

Why together? Because Auto-block almost always hold hands with some kind of bug.
When you use melee you go to melee mode. That's okay. but after that, problems start happening if you have a lot of enemy around you. Auto-block lock you in blocking, or halt the holstering with blocking. Auto-block also make Gunblade and Glaive usage a painDue there is no manual blocking you can't use a lot of stance and combo right. Some weapons unique ability is gone. (Ack & Brunt, Glaive etc) Toggle chanelling also have some flaws, but I won't speak about this now.
For the bugs... since the rework I can't use Void Blast in operator mode. It just don't work. Some other people also have this problem, but majority of them don't.

Suggestions:

  • Auto-block must be gone, or at least should be toggleable in the menu, because it's clearly make more problem than anyting.
  • There should be a "lock on" to melee mode, where you can use your melee without randomly swap back to firearm.
    This mode should contain the old system elements, by using mouse to block and channel, also we should get back melee aim glide.
  • For the ones who have problem with stances/combos there could be 2 solutions. The first is, have the old and new melee system toggleable from the menu.
    The second is a rare umbral stance mod, what makes your weapon stance and combo free, but still give the bonus like the normal stances.
  • Animations instead completly gone, they should be twice as fast, so it wouldn't be so awkward like it just pop in your hand.
  • Some unique Warframe ability shouldn't be affected by the new changes. Mostly I speak about Valkyr's Hysteria.
  • Enable control overlap to let different modes work, because some of the melee players must choice between fire button or melee button. 
  • Fix the bugs.


Well, thank you for reading my long post. Hope you guys can agree with this, or improve this.

Edited by Katze127
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On 2019-03-10 at 8:21 PM, supernils said:

I don't see how?

maybe hold sprint/crouch instead -> counter intuitive

or just a totally separate button -> please not more buttons

you need to press jump again to jump again. so if you have to let go of it so you can actually jump again, you're gonna lose altitude between letting go of the jump button for gliding, and pressing again for second jump.

really the smart choice would be just letting us aim-glide like we used to, rather than using the current "YOU WILL USE GUNS MORE THAN MELEE" system they introduced.

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Posted (edited)

DE please just return to us melee 2.0 system. Just so. Allow us enjoying Warframe like before. To make two important game events and terrible control in the same time is a worst thing you can possibly did.

Edited by Akura-archangel
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On Steve's Twitch stream just before the release, he asked that we really spend some time with the new melee system before judging it. I put my hours in this weekend and I still feel largely how I felt initially, though my thoughts on it are a little more distilled. I think the two big problems with the entire system as it stands now are stances and auto-blocking.

Many of the stances in the game inhibit player movement and/or kill your momentum, and even the ones that don't are often clumsy and unwieldy. This is a huge problem when your entire raison d'etre is to increase the fluidity of combat! Through experimenting, it feels like a full third of the stances are outright worse than the old quick attacks - it's like we've gone from Dynasty Warriors smooth, rapid melee to Monster Hunter's rhythmic, methodical melee, except the rest of the game is still Dynasty Warriors. It's jarring at best and actively inhibiting gameplay at worst. I still don't think I understand how someone is supposed to use Four Riders in an actual mission outside of the Sim. On top of that, the "morse code" combos were already viewed as a negative back on devstream 114, and they haven't aged any better since then. The stance changes shown in 114 were very promising, and implementing the "standing melee is stance attacks, melee while moving forward is quick attacks" system your showed would go a long ways towards resolving the biggest problems with stances.

The auto-block is terrible. There's no two ways about it, it's just miserable. When it pops while I'm in a fight, it switches around my combos and changes my attack patterns against my will. When I get attacked while airborne, I start aim gliding and often can't stop. If I get into a melee scrap because I'm trying to draw damage for Rage, my energy regen bottoms out because my frame is blocking when I don't want them to. Aim gliding with a zoomed gun when trying to melee kills your FoV and limits your mobility. Electromagnetic Shielding has become completely useless since it only triggers when I'm taking damage, but I'd only ever want to use it when my allies are taking damage. Even if you discard everything but melee to re-enable block, you still auto-block and thus still encounter almost all the above problems. Remove auto-block and put block back on right click. We already have minimum of two other commands for going back to guns, we seriously don't need a third. It's a half-baked solution to something that wasn't a problem, and has done nothing but break a dozen things that were working just fine. It contributes nothing, it only takes away player control and freedom.

I want to stress that I'm not resistant to change - I've been crowing with anticipation for this since last summer. These problems aren't just changes we need to adapt to, though, they're real concerns about the implementation. I sincerely hope that our feedback is taken into consideration in the coming phases. I want Warframe's melee to be as riotous as everything else in the game, and hopefully the other phases will make this a more complete overhaul, but it currently feels like this update was a few steps forward and several massive leaps back.

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Posted (edited)

Slams are much better now... more tactical, less accident 🙂

Weapon reload while holding melee isn't working. Have to manually switch or fire then reload... if there are rounds left. If no rounds left, cannot reload while holding melee unless using switch weapon key (mousewheel). I think a fix is in the pipeline....

Melee combos are much better, not sure what changed exactly in stances but I love my swords now! Broken War not the king anymore? lol

I was horsing around with melee attack > fire > melee attack > fire, since I thought the melee weapon was being dropped on the ground. But it really seems to disappear, which is OK. A little unbelievable, but the functionality is amazing. Much better than using fire button to bring weapon up, then fire again to fire, which i guess would be the alternate.

Great work! love it

Edited by MajFauxPas

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16 minutes ago, Gene_Freak said:

....The auto-block is terrible. There's no two ways about it, it's just miserable. When it pops while I'm in a fight, it switches around my combos and changes my attack patterns against my will....

I really like autoblock now, but that's because I'm a gunner who only uses melee for close finishing. But i totally see your point.

I'm thinking broken combos are not intended. We should be able to resume stance combo after block. Do you mean melee combo counter? I can see how auto block would kill that

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Not so much broken combos as unwanted combos. As in, if I'm hammering away on melee and I auto-block a shot at just the right moment for that block command to slip into my attacks, there's a chance I'll execute a different attack than intended (depending on the stance, timing etc). It's a pretty edge-case problem, I'd imagine, but it is another example of the uneven execution of this mechanic.

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After gathering some input from others and giving it a bit myself the system seems pretty great so far the only feedback would be: allowing old system style 1 key bind for all 3 weapons option for the players that want it. I am unsure how i feel about aim glide melee being gone and the auto block is nice but makes some mods useless i believe an auto guard mod when it already has built in auto guard? I would love seeing guarding animation changed so it looks less trigger happy if that might make sense. 

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I mainly use the glaive, and this update really broke my melee. I can only manually block/melee glide if I have no other weapons equipped, but most of the time this toggles the block and I have to press the melee button again to stop blocking. I have to swing my melee weapon in the air to switch to it.. makes no sense and the old sheathe/unsheathe animations were cool. When trying to throw my glaive the auto block sometimes cancels it out and I have to turn and do it again away from the enemy I wanted to throw it at and then face them at the last second to effectively throw it without blocking out of it. I also used my melee to level lower weapons, now I can't do that as effectively because I can't aim glide with melee and some combos require the RMB which makes me swap back to my secondary/primary weapon after I stop melee attacking. The new "flowing" system is everything but smooth, the only good thing that came from it so far is the aimed ground slam.

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On 2019-03-07 at 9:03 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

BLOCKING

Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all! 

This is a Bad Idea, I'm afraid. Auto-blocking has ruined more than one attack for just about everyone. Charge Attacks get interrupted, and the lack of a manual block has broken several stances that require the RMB being held down or clicked for some attack or another.

 

On 2019-03-07 at 9:03 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Exalted weapons will also benefit from the uninterrupted swaps! Be aware that Energy will still drain, even when swapping between weapons!

Another Bad Idea... I've just about given up using any melee Exalted weapons, because any attempt to use RMB-required melee attacks immediately swaps to whichever gun I was using last.

Honestly... the visual and QoL improvements are the best part about the melee rework so far... but the auto-block and Exalted melee swap just don't work as they're currently implemented. (Truthfully, the auto-block would work better with only sword and shield weapons, which would still have the opportunity of attacking as they're two parts.)

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Quick melee gone. RIP maiming strike and berserk. I had a quick whip-crackling vania_like maiming stream of death there on nintendo switch. Not looking forward to this. The Plat n resources I used to get a rank 3 arcane fury rarely activates in full melee and my berserker only activates if I manage to pull off a quick maiming strike first. Damn. 

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I absolutely adore the new system. Now I can do some crazy good builds using instant swapping like combining a status gun with a crit-condition-overload melee, or never reloading by using the synth mods.

Now, for the actual feedback regarding the future of melee:

Difficulty of executing combos: Specifically, hold block combos. I love playing around with melee, but now that I can't hold right click while spamming left there are many combos that I can't comfortably use. Please change all block combos to instead be executed by holding a movement key. And while you are at it please change all timing combos to holding a different movement key.

High movement combos: I've seen players complaining about combos that kills their momentun, but my problem is different and that is combos that forces you to move way too much. The 3 worst aggressors are Brutal Tide, Final Harbringer, and Bullet Dance. On the first two you always do attacks that lunges you several meters foward, which is problematic when you want to stay on the target, and that got me killed a couple of times. Please fix this on the next phase that touches combos. Bullet dance is not that bad because range is meaningless on gunblades, but the normal attack combo moves you back a lot and thows off your aim while the hold back combo is the one that actually moves you foward. Please make sure that all stances have a combo that lets you stay in place dishing a beating to an enemy that survives more than one hit.

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8 minutes ago, Edu_lml said:

High movement combos: I've seen players complaining about combos that kills their momentun, but my problem is different and that is combos that forces you to move way too much. 

I think they're two sides of the same coin, really. In both cases your attack is determining where you're moving, instead of your movement determining where you're attacking. Whether I'm cemented to the ground by an elaborate flourish or flung across the room by an unintentional lunge, I'm not where I want to be either way.

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Second post in this thread.

As other people mentioned, Redeemer and most probably other charged weapons are completely unusable. I don't try to be mean so don't take it the wrong way but if you are programming this melee, do not beta test it in simulacrum on paused AI, because I hate to say it but it really feels like it was like that.

Melee honestly feels just broken. The game is forcing on me behaviours during a fight I don't want to make, especially as an advanced almost MR27 player. As of right now I only have fun with melee when I unequip ranged weapons, and only with certain melee weapons. I don't think it was supposed to be like that.

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36 minutes ago, Gene_Freak said:

I think they're two sides of the same coin, really. In both cases your attack is determining where you're moving, instead of your movement determining where you're attacking. Whether I'm cemented to the ground by an elaborate flourish or flung across the room by an unintentional lunge, I'm not where I want to be either way.

That unintentional lunge is what's annoying me most right now.  I keep flying past enemies and having to circle back.  This is an issue with the stances that has probably always been there, but I never noticed as much since I mostly used quick attacks when I wasn't shooting with my primary/seconday.  It's jerky, unnatural, and very difficult to anticipate since combos can begin at different times depending on when you fully equipped your melee weapons, or if you've used a quick attack first.

I mean, I'm even getting situations where I'm holding down the melee button, waiting for a heavy attack that never comes.  That keypress doesn't seem to register all of the time and my frame just stands there for a few seconds.

I like the flourish and style of these stances, but they are really interfering with the flow of combat.

Another thing I noticed is how Valkyr's Hysteria is affected by the autoblock.  It looks cool, but... she's invulnerable anyways, so what's the point besides lengthening the animations?

And one last thing.  Your primary and secondary weapons are reequipped somewhat inconsistently.  I'll switch between melee and ranged, expecting my secondary and instead get my primary and vice versa.  Something about that logic is off.  It's enough to make me unintentionally drop some objective items like the data-masses and coolant.

 

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1. Keep it simple:

Autoblocking is causing more issues than it solves right now, the quickfix adds manual blocking but doesn't remove the autoblock.

2. Back it up:

On 2019-03-08 at 2:44 PM, Aekhon said:

Not having to block is very awkward right now,

On 2019-03-08 at 3:42 PM, LEANBOX_9V said:

I detest auto block with a passion as I already didn't like blocking because it looks ridiculous, 

On 2019-03-08 at 5:06 PM, J_T_Ripper said:

Not having block not only feels awkward, but also makes Electromagnetic Shielding and Guardian Derision completely useless. You can't use them effectively anymore without the continued use of blocking. Not to mention the lack of blocking for combos or the ability to hover with melee.

On 2019-03-08 at 6:25 PM, Katze127 said:

if you think about the lack of bullet jump, manual blocking and the difficulties with channeling.

On 2019-03-08 at 7:10 PM, deltas5 said:

I still would like to have a dedicated melee mode to allow the use of mouse buttons 1 and 2 for channeling and blocking. 

On 2019-03-08 at 8:10 PM, HarissonLA said:

I am at Phase 2 of my experience with Melee changes (Phase 1 was more emotional) so here goes feedback:

In short: Unplayable
Blocking - it is dead. Literally dead. 

On 2019-03-08 at 8:48 PM, Nightfish2000 said:

I didn't ask for and the autoblocking draining my energy (because of channeling) when I didn't even want to block I feel less in control than ever. Instead of blocking when I wanted to block, I know how to turn off channeling when I don't want the block I didn't want to do to drain my energy...

On 2019-03-08 at 11:09 PM, Reifnir said:

New players are going to hate losing energy on automated, mandatory blocking. 

Bring back the manual block, please, and make autoblocking optional. 

On 2019-03-08 at 11:09 PM, Marian.WolFox said:

It feels wrong not to have the option to block manually. At the Dojo we used to do a lot of Melee trainning and now it all has gone to an auto block that works when it feels like it.
ANUAL BLOCKING must RETURN.
I'm pretty sure the MeleeBlocking and Channeling options could have stayed,

On 2019-03-08 at 11:18 PM, Zanchak said:

Auto block - It's interfering with shooting and just clunky. I don't need my melee style dumbed down like this. If I fail to block and I die, that should be on me, not on an auto response.

On 2019-03-09 at 12:03 AM, Same said:

As a melee ONLY user, this update has royally screwed me over completely.
My keybind for melee was the mouse button, and rebinding it back to mouse has now removed my ability to fire weapons because that's clearly a smart feature.

This wrecks my playstyle. I blocked when I needed it, and I used block combos religiously. Now I have no option to.

On 2019-03-09 at 12:13 AM, RoniLumen said:

I like the idea of auto blocking , but when I use toggle channeling, I only want to use it for extra damage, but the auto block feature makes it drain my energy. Pls, try to fix that.

On 2019-03-09 at 1:03 AM, xdeathhungerx said:

Please bring back manual block.

On 2019-03-09 at 1:21 AM, SpacePenny said:

The Vaykor Sydon's special ability has now been broken with the new melee system due to the fact that there is no manual blocking. What happens as a result is that the auto-block continues to stack the blind counter but even at max stack (15) you are unable to activate the effect. I did see someone mention wanting a legacy option to enable manual blocking, that would be nice.

On 2019-03-09 at 2:14 AM, jbdarkblue said:

Every issue I am having with the new system has already been stated in this thread. The most important thing I want to return is manual blocking. As a primarily melee player, this auto block is killing my enjoyment of the game. 

On 2019-03-09 at 3:12 AM, RhythmScript said:

- I miss manually blocking. The advantage of being able to draw my gun from a melee stance without firing is minimal, and the few times I do want to do it, weapon-switch button still works. I feel like fun additions like parrying, blocking incrementing combo counter, etc., will have to die to make way for auto-blocking, and I don't like it

On 2019-03-09 at 4:29 AM, Ventricle8 said:

I like not having to holster but apparently auto-blocking is a problem. If it didn't have priority over attacks it would be better. If someone needs to stay alive more than attack they should be aware enough to make that decision themselves by stopping attacks to allow blocks.

On 2019-03-09 at 5:17 AM, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Plus we still have block and channeling mods we can't really use and tons of stuff that are broken.

On 2019-03-09 at 6:34 AM, Gene_Freak said:

-We need the block key back. Auto-blocking feels awful, especially how it interacts with melee in general.

On 2019-03-09 at 9:01 AM, Biofractal said:

I agree with what a lot of other people here are saying about not being able to manually block. The auto-blocking doesn't feel right.

On 2019-03-09 at 9:32 AM, Darknight747 said:

As a Melee-centric player myself (20-30% guns, 70-80% melee), I have to agree with a couple of recurring constructive feedback/criticism points on the new melee update:

1) Manual Blocking should be brought back!  The new auto-blocking seems to work when it feels like and feels sloppy in actual gameplay. The angle of the block is ridiculously small and narrow now. Making it an automatic "one size fits all" function takes away from the precise dedicated and satisfying melee blocking system we used to have. The new melee looks prettier (audio Fx even sounds better) but feels very generic, sloppy, and less precise now.

On 2019-03-09 at 10:14 AM, alexutopia said:

I used to block and channel a lot, but automatic blocking simply doesn't work for me, 

On 2019-03-09 at 10:49 AM, JLMomo said:

As for blocking I feel losing Manual Block completely, and more importantly the ability to disable Blocking is a harsh thing that impacts the game in a wide number of ways, namely as my tank frames running hunters adrenaline I don't /want/ to block as I am looking to use the energy loop to stay alive. By blocking with say a sword and a shield 90% reduction when I don't want to is a loss in my energy.

On 2019-03-09 at 10:54 AM, ZinGrin said:

-Auto blocking is super annoying with certain charge attacks, gunblades for example.

-Auto blocking, when you forget you left channeling on and your energy goes poof.

On 2019-03-09 at 11:39 AM, Suchy1555 said:

1. Please bring back the manual blocking. It feels better if I know that I blocked the attack and not that the game blocked it for me. If I play, I wanna play myself. Not let autopilot do it.

- Leave the original channeling and blocking mechanisms.

On 2019-03-09 at 3:02 PM, T04STR said:

TL:DR, please bring back manual blocking... (we want to choose when to block) 

On 2019-03-09 at 3:14 PM, kapn655321 said:

I still want to be able to block, guys.
Is that so wrong?
 

On 2019-03-09 at 3:25 PM, Same said:

If you have a melee as your only equipped, you can manually block.
Unfortunately, this is still a bit buggy in a squad when you are not host, as I've found in mid-parkour that it may not want to unblock after - sometimes causing you to be unable to let go of your aimglide, or suddenly just spamming block on its own after landing while on the ground.

On 2019-03-09 at 3:31 PM, kapn655321 said:

Ditching block for an autoparry mechanic?
No one EVER used the autoparry mod.
DE ignored that mod The Entire Time, and now that mechanic is a Centerpiece to your mechanics?
Wtf gave you the impression that was... nevermind.
*Deep breath*

On 2019-03-09 at 4:47 PM, Zanchak said:

 I didnt need an automated parry/block. Much as Im trying to enjoy it, it's just getting in the way of my playstyle. It feels like its gone backwards. 

On 2019-03-09 at 5:20 PM, 3NVY5W0RD said:

#BringBackManualBloking. That all i had to say.

On 2019-03-09 at 6:35 PM, KitMellow said:

4. Give us an option in the settings menu to toggle autoblocking on or off (default setting being on). If autoblocking is set to off, the block key can be manually bound by the player.

  • Although autoblocking is a good idea for most players in general, there's also reasons to keep manual blocking as an option for advanced players who enjoy the additional depth of gameplay and/or for certain builds like Rage and Hunter Adrenaline where you want to take more damage, while still being able to carry primaries and secondaries. The bandaid solution we have now with enabling manual blocking only if we have no primaries and secondaries equipped doesn't work for most people, and is an unpolished compromise until a true settings toggle is implemented.🤗
On 2019-03-09 at 6:42 PM, (NSW)Smashbrolink said:

Please, devs, rethink your changes to blocking and channeling.

Some of us rely on those things being under our full control.

This doesn't feel ninja-smooth...

On 2019-03-09 at 7:23 PM, (NSW)Smashbrolink said:

If they just stopped messing with blocking and channeling, and stopped trying to force-feed us "smoother" swapping which messes up the aforementioned points, these changes, like Melee slams and better-looking combos, wouldn't be so bad.

I get the feeling this is going to make a lot of players stop playing, if they force it forward instead of giving us options...

On 2019-03-09 at 11:45 PM, Badgerlad said:

- Automatic blocking isn't always a good thing. There are times when you actually want to be able to choose to take the hits, like a rage / hunter adrenaline build.

On 2019-03-10 at 12:00 AM, YazMatazO said:

I think enough has been said already on the topic :D. 

With much respect, please, reconsider some of the new changes. Target air slam is good, animation and effects are good, sounds are good. 

Controls are not crisp enough, no manual blocking is taking away from the game. Channel toggle only is hurting some of the folks.

'Spin to win'ers lose nothing. Those who like to have quick melee in their builds lose a lot. 

On 2019-03-10 at 3:45 AM, Buttaface said:

Channeling as a toggle only is a bad idea. Auto blocking is a bad idea.

On 2019-03-10 at 4:02 AM, TheMostFrench said:

Make auto blocking optional, keep the dedicated block button in.

Allow dedicated blocking even with a gun equipped.

On 2019-03-10 at 4:07 AM, LSG501 said:

I haven't tested fully but feel auto blocking affects mods like adaptation, hunter adrenaline and rage negatively.  While this new system is more fluid we've lost access to an element of control that can impact certain builds.  For example rage/hunter adrenaline builds where we need to take damage for energy and we'd just stand there taking damage without blocking.

On 2019-03-10 at 7:18 AM, Nightfish2000 said:

2) Autoblocking. As if the constant swapping in and out of melee mode was not bad enough, I am now also no longer in control about when blocking drains my energy (due to channeling) and I constantly have to turn channeling on and off to avoid that.

On 2019-03-10 at 7:38 AM, Arcira said:

Channel + auto block: Energy consumption is quite difficult to manage. I know channeling is suposed to be changed but can channel block be a normal block without energy cost meanwhile?

On 2019-03-10 at 8:40 AM, Sword0fLotus said:

Automatic blocking is intrusive and annoying - takes away player's choice and cripples use of sword & shield specific mods

On 2019-03-10 at 9:04 AM, Shy0 said:

the way blocking is implemented now is a problem. it is impossible to use charge attacks if facing a mob of enemies because the block will keep triggering over charge attacks even if melee button is held, plus the aim glide/block problems mentioned above.

On 2019-03-10 at 9:07 AM, Slimspadey101 said:

Maybe add another toggle in the options for the old block mechanics? If you're holding melee then RMB blocks and auto-blocking is disabled.

On 2019-03-10 at 10:10 AM, Vesiga said:

the auto blocking is getting annoying in some cases, getting stuck in a corner being flung back by shield lancers, or the multi knockdowns in the profit taker. being knocked down once, then avoiding the other KD hits to jump out of the way was a lot better

On 2019-03-10 at 11:48 AM, Hjalmthrimul said:

 and what used to be my block button ALL now exit melee mode.  And this frustration is compounded by the fact that channeling is a toggle now.  Which doesn't always activate.  And turns off when you switch to gun and back.  And has only small glow effect that's easy to miss in all the spark-flying visual confusion of melee combat to indicate whether it's active.

bCRjPTt.png

3. Be polite

DE are the some of the best dev teams out there! If anyone will act on this feedback its them!

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Posted (edited)

Well guys for sword (melee weapon) alone, they did a patch (I just got this one today after the first patch) and I must say it feels whole lot only a little better than it did before (the update that removed manual blocking and block glide completely and the first patch with the brokem block in sword alone mode), Blocking no longer stays blocked until you attack, that is now fixed where it lets go when you let go of block.  Sorry it still stays blocked sometimes, somewhat random.

1. just don't use your scanner or  else it seems to break your right click for blocking again and get stuck on just scanning,

2. certainly a toggle switch for auto block to be turned off is needed,

3. sometimes in battle it delays and hitches (as if not responding to mouse clicks) when I am attacking even if I spam the left click (I don't know for sure but maybe it has something to do with auto block or the current combo system?).

The block glide is back and block is back but only if you use melee only, whilst I am happy to at least be able to play again somewhat, it saddens me to know that I will be without my sniper on serious missions as having guns in general will render the melee combat features useless,

4. I really wish we could get a toggle switch for melee exclusive selection with guns (melee biased style?) or new melee system (gun biased style?), maybe 2 types of Tenno hybrid fighting styles? 

5. I hope the issues for other areas will be addressed such as polearm style Tennos,

they are hurt badly too, the melee fighting is a tad bit clunky, but it is more acceptable than what is was without manual block and glide block,

6. DE my utmost appreciation goes to you, the DEV team and all admin and moderators who all collectively work together. Please continue to aid all of us Tennos. Orokin with you all!

Edited by SilviaS12
to be a bit more specific with the smaller glitches THE ISSUE WASNT FIXED BUT RANDOM.

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Posted (edited)

The new channeling system makes surviving with life strike difficult. Once you toggle it on you 'life strike', then you have to aim or toggle again to turn it off. Then you got hurt and you have to do this all over again. It's a complex mechanic which is far less effective than the old system ( i need life, i press a button for one millisec, i heal, i'm good).

It would be nice to have an option to turn the 'channeling toggle' into a normal button like it was before.

 

 

Edited by LightningStorm84
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Posted (edited)

These changes are amazing for quick melee, but the worst thing ever for equipped melee.  I can't aimglide in melee, which makes it impossible to hit drones and ospreys.  It's absolutely impossible to use block combos now, as hitting block makes you equip your gun.  Sure, you can hold aim before pulling out your melee, but that locks you into using a single combo.  Additionally, Vagrant Blight (one of the best combos on any stance in the game and by far the best combo for tonfas) is absolutely impossible to use now, since if you're holding block, you perform Baleful Sin instead.

The only way I can see this system working is bringing back the Switch to Melee keybind.  Using this keybind would put you in locked melee combat, letting you use M2 for aimglide and combos.  While in dedicated melee mode, there could be a system implemented where the Quick Melee keybind turns into a Quick Fire keybind.  It would pull out your gun with the same "flow" rules as the Quick Melee: M1 fires, M3 secondary fires, Quick Fire also fires, etc., but you can't aim.  Instead, trying to aim pulls your melee weapon back out.  This would let people use the full functionality of the melee system while still being able to pull out a gun for a few quick shots.

The one really strange thing about the new system is using certain melee weapons for quick melee stuff feels wrong.  Gunblades with Bullet Dance start firing instead of doing a quick slash.  Thrown melees with high attack speed too easily start doing the Falling Star combo on the second hit instead of Midnight Cloud.

Recovery time for air melee has always been way too long, and feels even clunkier now with the quickswap implementation.

Hold back combos (S+M1) are still really awkward to use.  These should be replaced with a different keybind, either hold forward (W+M1) or hold M1.

Any hold forward combo (W+M1) needs to fork later in the hit sequence than other combos to avoid accidentally triggering it when you're just trying to move forward while meleeing.

Edited by Telogor
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