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[DE]Danielle

Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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nice to know that you are looking into the controller issues with the new system.  I was just about to give up entirely.

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When using a slow firing weapon, like the Grinlok, you can't melee until the firing animation is over. This wasn't a issue in the previous update. Previously, I was able to fire and then melee right away. This delay makes it feel unresponsive.

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Issues:

- While using exalted bow (have not attempted with other exalted weapons) if i pick up a coolant canister in Orb Vallis and then jump onto my hoverboard or archwing my player drops the canister and the progress is reset. I must first turn off exalted bow and then pick up the canister to keep myself from sabotaging my mission.

-While i do enjoy being able to use a melee weapon while i have exalted bow equipped, having my character pull out a primary or secondary while using exalted blade can be problematic. It's quite easy to forget that you have an energy draining ability running if you can just put it away while leaving it on. (maybe add a dormant state where it consumes less energy or you can still receive energy from consumables or abilities while it's holstered.)

- I like to be able to hold my channel with LMB for a quick and easy lifestrike attack and releasing it to stop consuming energy. now i am forced to toggle my channel and my prefered keybind pulls out my primary leaving me defenseless in certain situations.

- As stated by others, not being able to aim glide with your melee weapon or manual block is troublesome and is forcing players to change their entire play-styles.

Fixes:

option 1

- A legacy mode to allow players old and new to chose how they want to play would be a sufficient fix to keep most people happy.

options 2

- Implement a very in depth settings menu where you can change and adjust settings between old and new to get the best of both worlds.

 

Ideally, i'd like to be able to continue using a melee weapon while exalted bow is equipped, be able to lock myself into melee mode and use channel, block and aimglide as i used to, constant energy draining exalted abilities should be shut off when swapping weapons and i'd like the ability to use charged melee attacks, such as the zenistar's floating disk without having to switch permanently to a melee weapon. In other words, i'd like the best of both worlds. However i would be happy with a legacy mode.

 

My only complaints are about the automatic weapon switching. I do not have any feedback on stances thus far.

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Things I like about this update:

   -Slam: The new slam attack change provides a new means for mobility and closing the distance to a target.

   -Visual Effects: The new visual effects look amazing and I love them, though I've noticed something off about the weapon trail on one of my zaws, not sure how to explain it.


Things I don't like about this update (and why):

   -Removal of Quick Melee: From what I understand, previously, every stance had it's own short string of quick melee attacks, some of which kept you fixed to your normal flow of movement. In example, the Zaw I use, using the Bleeding WIllow stance, had a two-hit combo that covered a very useful amount of angles when swinging, while keeping a steady and reasonable pace of swing and without interrupting the flow of my movement. This short, non-intrusive string of attacks has been removed from every weapon, and thus, much versatility in melee choice and usefulness.

   -Datamasses/held pickups: When holding a pickup, if you try to swap to a primary weapon, you drop the pickup. The new way it swaps your weapons without the pressing of a key can cause you to drop pickups without realizing it. If you pick a datamass up while holding your primary weapon, it can make you swap to your melee weapon, and thus if you press either mouse button, you will drop the datamass, and usually this goes unnoticed until arriving at a console or objective. This same kind of issue may affect anything that involves swapping weapons as well, though I can't think of or remember any others at the moment.

   -Obsolete mods/mechanics: There were a couple mechanics that relied on the ability to block manually, such as Guardian Derision and Electromagnetic shielding, which as far as I can tell, no longer work.

   -Rakta Dark Dagger passive: From what I understood, this passive was, well, in essense, passive. In other words it was just there. As small as it may have already been, reducing it to a limited duration on equipping it in-mission may have made it even less of a reason to use the dagger over a weapon that would be more effective at dealing damage, or just have a more useful passive. This change in fact makes me worry that other weapons are going to receive the same treatment, some of which may actually disturb the flow of the game, like the Telos Boltace, having differing speeds of bullet jump may mess up one's flow of movement, perhaps causing you to get stuck on more level geometry than usual.


Things I would like in the (preferably near) future (and why):

   -Quick melee: I would like some way or an option to be able to use the old quick melee strings. They were useful and I miss them. They were family to me.

   -Uninhibited melee movementMost melee combos disrupt the flow of your movement. Personally, this heavily limits choice of melee weapons and stances. Making movement during melee combos fixed to your normal movement (non-sprint) would open up many choices in melee and help with issues from removing of quick melee.

   -Directional/angular melee: Something that would benefit melee all around and open up another level of interactive and skill-based game-play is the option to angle your melee attacks vertically with the camera, rather than just fixed straight forward-facing attacks. Exceptions to this, I assume, would be slam-based strikes and spinning-type attacks.

   -Pickups: A simple fix for dropping a datamass would be to make the objective waypoint invisible while it's on the ground, but not all mission types are the same and use waypoints more than Mobile defense. Therefore, the prevention of being able to swap to one's primary weapon without the manual dropping of a pickup seems to be a better compromise.

   -Obsolete mechanics: Most of the things relying on blocking didn't seem that necessarily effective, or useful, despite me using them as if they were more useful than they maybe have been for the way that the game currently goes- it was the idea that mattered 😄, I dunno, I'd just like to see some sort of replacement for everything that no longer works, or at least have it work again in some way, like what was done for the Vaykor Sydon.

   -Rakta Dark Dagger passive: I would personally like the passive to be permanent when in one's loadout, but seeing as how little I notice the passive anyways, I likely wouldn't notice the 30s limit anways, so the change doesn't effect me much but I do see how it could harm someone if they aren't paying attention and the buff runs out at a bad time.

   -Leap attack delay: There is a period of time after leap attacks where no melee attacks may be used, which makes sense if it's another leap attack because of the small amount of propulsion they provide.However, they can be greatly irritating if preformed even accidentally upon falling due to small ledges or slopes because it prevents any form of melee for that small period of time. As one might imagine it can cause many issues including but not limited to incapacitation. I would like if leap attacks didn't prevent ground-melee attacks and maybe slam attacks for a short duration after them.

   -Wall attacks: I never use wall attacks. They aren't affected by attack speed, are rather slow by default, and don't deal much more (if any) damage than other attacks. I would like If wall attacks acted like slam attacks, propelling you in the direction you were facing and acted just like slam attacks, perhaps even if facing upwards.

   -Wall slams: I would greatly like if hitting a wall with a slam attack would slam attack the wall, colliding with it and stopping your momentum like it would with the floor, rather than sliding down all along the side of the wall. You could even give an option to quick-recover from the wall slam by wall-latching, due to the lack of likelihood of enemies on the wall. (and thus ineffective as an attack but useful as skillfully executed mobility) This would go well with aforementioned wall-attack-slams, giving the player the ability to preform chains of wall-slams for mobility or simply to feel badass.
 

That's all I have to note for now! Thanks for all that is Warframe!

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4 hours ago, Telogor said:

These changes are amazing for quick melee, but the worst thing ever for equipped melee.  I can't aimglide in melee, which makes it impossible to hit drones and ospreys.  It's absolutely impossible to use block combos now, as hitting block makes you equip your gun.  Sure, you can hold aim before pulling out your melee, but that locks you into using a single combo.  Additionally, Vagrant Blight (one of the best combos on any stance in the game and by far the best combo for tonfas) is absolutely impossible to use now, since if you're holding block, you perform Baleful Sin instead.

The only way I can see this system working is bringing back the Switch to Melee keybind.  Using this keybind would put you in locked melee combat, letting you use M2 for aimglide and combos.  While in dedicated melee mode, there could be a system implemented where the Quick Melee keybind turns into a Quick Fire keybind.  It would pull out your gun with the same "flow" rules as the Quick Melee: M1 fires, M3 secondary fires, Quick Fire also fires, etc., but you can't aim.  Instead, trying to aim pulls your melee weapon back out.  This would let people use the full functionality of the melee system while still being able to pull out a gun for a few quick shots.

The one really strange thing about the new system is using certain melee weapons for quick melee stuff feels wrong.  Gunblades with Bullet Dance start firing instead of doing a quick slash.  Thrown melees with high attack speed too easily start doing the Falling Star combo on the second hit instead of Midnight Cloud.

Recovery time for air melee has always been way too long, and feels even clunkier now with the quickswap implementation.

Hold back combos (S+M1) are still really awkward to use.  These should be replaced with a different keybind, either hold forward (W+M1) or hold M1.

Any hold forward combo (W+M1) needs to fork later in the hit sequence than other combos to avoid accidentally triggering it when you're just trying to move forward while meleeing.

Great suggestions! I'd really like to see these changes, particularly the dedicated/locked melee ones.

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Le 08/03/2019 à 00:30, pauli133 a dit :

My first impression is very simple: I want my (polearm) quick melee back.

 

 

What he said.

BRING THE POLEARM BACK!!!

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i like the update but i also miss the "melee mode" that you had before the update im sure many other players might agree with me maybe and im saying maybe the game could give you an option if you want the new "quick melee" or you can also have a key for the new attack and 1 to equip it like you did before the update

like 1 "melee attack", "Equip Melee" and "melee attack equiped"

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I feel alienated when using my orthos prime ever since the update, I feel that the old quick melee move set should be released as a stance mod as it is the prime reason i chose to use orthos as my go to melee weapon.

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So here's the scoop DE. Specifically regarding my thoughts on the stance issue and how people preferred quick melee.

Quick Melee was fine. There was nothing wrong with it, or manual blocking. Quick Melee using Stances is ITSELF fine, but you need to take a long, close look at your stances. Think about what input you're having people perform when you choose what you want the combo to be.

For instance, the forward-moving combo, or the neutral combo if there isn't one, is what people will be using when they're trying to MOVE SOMEWHERE. Don't mess with those, don't make them lock movement, don't make them a pain to have happen when people are trying to get somewhere.

Block Combos (Because manual blocking should come back, and you KNOW it should by now) have a bit more freedom to interfere with a person's movement, since if people wanted to be moving unhindered they'd be doing the neutral/forward combo. Personally I'd tend towards these more commonly being the nice, wide area attacks. Y'know, comparatively. A sweep kick for sparring weapons, something like that. Not every weapon can really do wide area, but you get the idea. Minor futzing with movement.

Back Combos, when you're holding backwards to perform it, are where you should put the fancy stuff. The stuff that really futzes with your movement should go here because holding back is both easy to do intentionally and you're the least likely to ever accidentally do it when trying to move somewhere.

Hold Combos and Pause Combos I'm not fond of existing at all to be honest. Both get increasingly finicky the higher your attack speed goes and hold combos interact weird with charge attacks (Which you apparently want to become more prominent?).

So yes. Forward/neutral combos for Minimum Interference, Block Combos for minor interference (Due to something like wide attacks or slams), and Back Combos for the fancy, animation heavy, movement locking stuff.

Think about what combos you're asking people to do and what animations said combo will have them do.

...

And bring back full-melee equip, honestly. At least an option for it, this isn't getting any less annoying, y'know? I am curious however on what you guys' thoughts are on the uh... response to your much touted Melee 2.9.

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My problem is that I can't tell which weapon will I shoot (currently equipped primary/secondary) if I have a melee out.

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Posted (edited)

Phase 1

When slide attacking with any weapon.
My quick melee (mousewheel up) results in a double-swing.
While tapping the melee button (mouse 5, meant for power strikes),
results in a singular, smooth slide attack.

These are intended to react the other way around, respectively.

When picking up items (canisters, data keys), that need to be carried to a location.
Having your melee out, before picking up said object (perform an attack).
When you now wish to either shoot, or aim glide.
It defaults back to your primary.
Resulting in the carried object, being dropped to the floor.
Not allways does this seem to trigger, but pretty consistent nontheless.

Running around with a readied melee, then causes for a bit of confusion.
Your instincts tell you, to hit the attack button.
So you end up firing a weapon instead.

Also, since you can't see which gun is readied, it often may lead to dangerous circumstances.
As has been the case, in firing off my zarr at point blank range.
While it was intended to fire the secondary instead.
The melee being held in hand, prevents vision of what you'll be firing.
With melee being holstered at all times, the fast responsive attacks will still be present, and prevent situations like this.

Furthermore, as mentioned in a previous post.
When having a melee in hand, it prevents me from firing off secondary shots (see videos).
Both Corinth and Phantasma have allready met with this minor inconvenience.
Forcing me to either press reload or aim buttons.
Or even perform a primary shot first, so it becomes equipped.
The videos have an input overlay, with one showing how I wish to fire my Corinth's secondary shot (right mouse button)

Blade & Whip

Spoiler

 

Sparring / Fists

Spoiler

 

-----

These weapons I've tested allready.
Some of the less commonly used ones.
Staff / polearm still perform admirably.
Though they too, feel the effect of a singular input, resulting in a double-attack.
This is my experience so far.

Nunchucks: Perform admirably.
The overused swings took place for actual attacks.
No more 'Temple of doom' scenarios where you show off your martial arts, and get shot by Indiana Jones.

Machete: Much smoother gameplay.
Though sometimes still feeling a bit clunky, the improvements are noticable allready.

Blade & Whip: still not feeling very comfortable.
The quick attack (mousewheel up), resulting in still double-attacking.
Is a very noxious killer on these weapon types.
Even for the Mios, with a base attack of 1.08. These attacks feel extremely slow.

Fists / Sparring: Results many a times in often soft hits, whifs, or not even hitting at all.
Brutal tide particularly, has one of the lengthiest show-off moves.
In my videos, you'll see that the input is singular.
Meanwhile, performing a mean groove on the dancefloor, way overdue.

Gunblades: Now seem to have lost a lot of their slash attacks.
Their attacks are now more to what an actual gunblade serves as: to pump those enemies full of lead from up close.
But this results in; the short stabs, often being replaced for a shot.
Can't say for sure if this is good or bad.
It's still effective nontheless, and a gunblade shot is more powerful anyway (since it spreads pellets - multi-procs, etc...).

-----

Channeling

Loving the new way this is represented.
Blocking and parrying now being automatic, gets rid of having to hold yet another button.
Which was in my case, holding the middle mouse.
Resulting in movements being impaired, due to a finger putting pressure, on my aiming tool.

The channeling itself however, is quite disappointing still.

After thorough testing.
The channeled damage isn't even worth modding towards... yet
Taking up 20-30 minutes to get a heavy gunner lvl 160, to kill herself on that last sliver of health (by having lowered their health allready with a few attacks).
While the same weapon's swipes take her out in just 1-2 seconds.

Padawan 'Obi-Ron' Kenobi, still has to await to complete his training for now.

Video pending

Edited by AegisAmaranth
Typos, allways dem typos >.<

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The new directional slam is really nice along with the visual effects, now if they de-nerf directional air melee (and not with a mod like they are planning to do), melee could actually be really fun to get around the battlefield like it was before parkour 2.0 hit and turned every warframe into a prancing ballerina instead of a blender of death.

BUT, the removal of quick melee and everything that went with it was a huge mistake and completely unnecessary and made combat not more fluid at all. Besides I have never heard anyone say that the switching to melee is not fluid enough or anything like that, and even if there have to be more competent ways to fix this. Now when someone is carrying a payload or anything and they want to aimglide they drop the payload because it switches to the primary weapon. Also when I want to switch to my secondary from my primary while having melee out (which is now all the time because I am very used to quick melee) I have to first switch to the primary and can only then switch to my secondary by pressing F again, with the weapon switch animations this takes forever and is LESS FLUID THEN BEFORE.

Also a personal request, add some sort of uppercut attack that lifts enemies in the air where you then can continue to attack them, this could work by replacing either the charge attack or channeling since both serve no purpose anyway.

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Eh, air combos wouldn't really work in Warframe. Two problems really, the camera isn't made for action of that sort, and perhaps more importantly 99.999999% of the time enemies won't need that level of time+damage investment and doing so would be counter-productive. Warframe's a horde fighter, not 1 on 1.

Though I do believe air melee would be better served being a repeating wide swing attack instead of a clumsy single strike. Wall latch melee similarly only serves as a mistake you can make.

 

3 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

So here's the scoop DE. Specifically regarding my thoughts on the stance issue and how people preferred quick melee.

Quick Melee was fine. There was nothing wrong with it, or manual blocking. Quick Melee using Stances is ITSELF fine, but you need to take a long, close look at your stances. Think about what input you're having people perform when you choose what you want the combo to be.

For instance, the forward-moving combo, or the neutral combo if there isn't one, is what people will be using when they're trying to MOVE SOMEWHERE. Don't mess with those, don't make them lock movement, don't make them a pain to have happen when people are trying to get somewhere.

Block Combos (Because manual blocking should come back, and you KNOW it should by now) have a bit more freedom to interfere with a person's movement, since if people wanted to be moving unhindered they'd be doing the neutral/forward combo. Personally I'd tend towards these more commonly being the nice, wide area attacks. Y'know, comparatively. A sweep kick for sparring weapons, something like that. Not every weapon can really do wide area, but you get the idea. Minor futzing with movement.

Back Combos, when you're holding backwards to perform it, are where you should put the fancy stuff. The stuff that really futzes with your movement should go here because holding back is both easy to do intentionally and you're the least likely to ever accidentally do it when trying to move somewhere.

Hold Combos and Pause Combos I'm not fond of existing at all to be honest. Both get increasingly finicky the higher your attack speed goes and hold combos interact weird with charge attacks (Which you apparently want to become more prominent?).

So yes. Forward/neutral combos for Minimum Interference, Block Combos for minor interference (Due to something like wide attacks or slams), and Back Combos for the fancy, animation heavy, movement locking stuff.

Think about what combos you're asking people to do and what animations said combo will have them do.

...

And bring back full-melee equip, honestly. At least an option for it, this isn't getting any less annoying, y'know? I am curious however on what you guys' thoughts are on the uh... response to your much touted Melee 2.9.

Overall I agree, but I don't believe any combo that isn't Move Backwards should have movement interference. Simply put, RMB would be vital for what is effectively the core dynamic of combos and mix-up: Forward is overridden by RMB. This is how you can switch up between three types of combo (stay put for neutral, Forward and RMB for movement) and the hypothetical Backwards combo (which indeed needs to do something mighty impressive to warrant coming to a halt). Having these four maps as you outlined form the common input set is what stances need, since these are the inputs that are functional within the context of Warframe's gameplay model. (While I do believe ideally we'd have two attack buttons for melee, it's more realistic to suggest improvements that work within current system)

A lot of stances have combos that would be better served being mapped to RMB and Forward, since I agree Pause and Hold as mentioned shouldn't even exist as inputs because they are not in synergy with Warframe's gameplay.

Returning to full-equip is ultimately something I feel would be for the better. Melee 3.0 needs to be developed from the perspective that it needs to be a full co-equal alternative to guns. Right now the trend seems to be to try and stiff melee in favour of guns. Rebalancing of entire classes of weapons along with their stances is absolutely what melee needs (another example of this is melee and certain bosses), not being more easily switched to a gun. Ie, every weapon really SHOULD do a wide area, because that's essentially the requirement in Warframe melee, not hitting only a single target. How to do that wide area is only a matter of aesthetics (I for one have zero problem with punches not actually colliding with enemies, heck just add a little shockwave effect around the fists and feet if it bothers folk too much), which is only down to style and creativity because warframes aren't bound by anything resembling realistic human limitations.

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After some time i finally found out the flow DE is talking abt in melee. All you gotta do is (imagine there is a nox in front of you and u have Ohma equipped) E (make sure u do entire E spam combo then proceed to) -> LMB( for as long as you want )->E again->jump then E to the ground. I think this is just one of the many flows out there since it differs for every player. I gotta say its pretty fluid and good. Only drawback is that its VERY difficult to channel since its a default in PC (idk abt the other platforms) that the alt-fire is the wheel button at the center of the mouse which is difficult AF to press. Still cant find a way to integrate channel to my flow but thats the only drawback for me.

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Posted (edited)

I was fiddling with Vigorous Swap and the Synth Set bonus while playing Valkyr with a melee and a secondary. It's a really interesting way to motivate shoot&slash style of play, but....

Sometimes it's just not working. Mostly the Synth set bonus that does not reload while doing melee, but on very rare occasions the Vigorous swap stops working too.

Question:

 - Is the Vigorous Swap/Synth Set/Melee 2.99999 interaction was ever inteded to work like that? (pls tell me it is T_T, it's not game breaking and its cool af)

 - If it is, can you guys fix it to work all the time and not just when the Sun&Moon align please?

 

After further testing:

The above bugs occur after either warframe or sentinel (or both) dies. I would bet that the death of the sentinel is the problem, but not a 100% certain.

Edited by Straxxes

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Here we are again, showcasing the current bugs with having only a melee weapon equipped.
In this video, you will clearly see I am typing while block is.. doing what ever it wants - simply because I am not the host.

Also, trying to mine or fish with a melee is still completely broken.

https://streamable.com/yu1de

I do hope DE is able to tackle these bugs, or at least says something about it, because as it is, I am very worried that it's being overlooked.

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I really want quick melee back, and I also don't like switching to my melee when I just want to break a crate or something.

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On 2019-03-10 at 3:28 PM, am0rtized said:

Warframe is not a spectacle fighter like Devil May Cry.  The latter has combo mechanics that make switching between gunplay and melee feel rewarding.  In Warframe you can't juggle enemies (if only because most properly-modded weapons vaporize them in one hit), you can't chain moves together (in fact, stance combos override the so-called fast switching), you don't get bonuses by being stylish.  What exactly is the point of trying to force something that doesn't fit the core gameplay?

Worst part is, it could have the good parts of DMC (impact procs could cause the enemy to be perma juggle-able, back combos of stances could be the one launcher instead of slam attacks doing random ragdolls, clicking attack during a roll could cause it to be turned into a stinger attack/roll attack and attack chains could be shortened to 3-4 inputs max with first one being the only shared base which would get overwritten if you just used any other combo... in fact carving mantis even does that/chains into itself skipping the start) AND combine it with good parts of other spectacle fighters (jetstream sam charge attacks being used for our charge attacks and dodge offset from bayo used for warframes movement setup/a roll, slide and bullet jump not resetting combos till 1s after it ends).

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Posted (edited)

First off, I like the melee changes so far.
It has however opened up a few issues.

movement:
Too many melee combos force movement onto the player so you find youself lurching about about where previously quick-melee would let you spam your way through some enarby enemies while holding whatever ground you chose (such as withina bubble/hallowed-ground/ledge/volt-shield).
Early days, yes, but if you are forcing fully-equipped melee systems on every warframe the movement and combo systems need to be closer to dynasty warriors than the current method. By all means keep the special movements but hold them under charge/sprint variants of the combo chains. There's a reason I only ever equipped melee weapons to use life-strike before this 2.9999 mode was activated.
TLDR: I want to position my warframe, not bend to the whims of differeing melee combos each swing.

Thrown weapons/Charged-throws:
Frankly this is unacceptible, you need to default all charge weapons (including zenistar) to the dual weild system while equipped ASAP because holding a button down, and then having to press another unclearly telegraphed "charge" function in order to trigger specific special moves is a pain in the ass, even more so when my secondary weapon is deliberately selected as a single hander or when a single miss-key can turn an instant-kill to a zone-wide-alert.

example, i'm using a lenz, furis/orvius build
I shoot the lens, an enemy is up close, I charge attack the enemy that got out of the zone but the disc boundes off his head and starts pinging round the walls (I forgot to hold down "melee channel" or simply miss timed a button press), seeing this happen I figure "hey I have a dual weild set-up I'll just shoot him with my furis", the LENZ swaps back in and I kill myself.
To shoot the furis I needed to go back to my lens (aim), then swap weapon, then wait for the dual weild weapons to kick into my U, 2-3 seconds work in all but that's 2-3 seoncds I NEVER had to deal with in the old system.
Horrible to use, less intuitive than before and highly vulnerable to miss-clicks.
TLDR: ALL thrown weapons need to be swapped over to the dual-weild control interface/system. if the player is dual-weilding then using melee attack should OPTIONALLY become a weapon-swap (from main hand to dual-weild)
Standardise the trigger press timing for activating the charge-throw if you must but the "new" system is wholy less useful than the old when it comes to thrown weapons.

Edited by IMMentat
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10 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

So here's the scoop DE. Specifically regarding my thoughts on the stance issue and how people preferred quick melee.

Quick Melee was fine. There was nothing wrong with it, or manual blocking. Quick Melee using Stances is ITSELF fine, but you need to take a long, close look at your stances. Think about what input you're having people perform when you choose what you want the combo to be.

For instance, the forward-moving combo, or the neutral combo if there isn't one, is what people will be using when they're trying to MOVE SOMEWHERE. Don't mess with those, don't make them lock movement, don't make them a pain to have happen when people are trying to get somewhere.

Block Combos (Because manual blocking should come back, and you KNOW it should by now) have a bit more freedom to interfere with a person's movement, since if people wanted to be moving unhindered they'd be doing the neutral/forward combo. Personally I'd tend towards these more commonly being the nice, wide area attacks. Y'know, comparatively. A sweep kick for sparring weapons, something like that. Not every weapon can really do wide area, but you get the idea. Minor futzing with movement.

Back Combos, when you're holding backwards to perform it, are where you should put the fancy stuff. The stuff that really futzes with your movement should go here because holding back is both easy to do intentionally and you're the least likely to ever accidentally do it when trying to move somewhere.

Hold Combos and Pause Combos I'm not fond of existing at all to be honest. Both get increasingly finicky the higher your attack speed goes and hold combos interact weird with charge attacks (Which you apparently want to become more prominent?).

So yes. Forward/neutral combos for Minimum Interference, Block Combos for minor interference (Due to something like wide attacks or slams), and Back Combos for the fancy, animation heavy, movement locking stuff.

Think about what combos you're asking people to do and what animations said combo will have them do.

100% agree with this.

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So I'll be honest, I don't really like it so far. A lot of my grievances can be fixed as the melee rework goes on, but as it stands right now I greatly prefer the old system.

I say this as a person who rarely switched to "full-melee" mode. Quick melee was easy and effective, most of the stances worked fine for Warframe's fast gameplay, and if you only used quick melee like me, you effectively already had the "instant switch" between gun and melee modes.

Taking out your full melee every time you tap E has resulted in me not being able to see what gun I am about to fire when I press left click again, always dropping coolant and excavator batteries on accident because I pick them up in melee and then drop them as soon as I shoot, it means I can't quickly bash some annoying enemies away when I'm trying to mine or fish in Orb Vallis because it makes my fishing rod/mining tool completely disappear and then pressing F will bring out my guns again...

I do like the new slam attacks a lot and I have been using them as a pseudo mobility tool! But all the other changes have straight up made my regular gameplay more annoying for me. I hope the bugs can be ironed out, and stances reworked, and the UI updated to reflect both your guns and melee if this is the direction we're still going in.

Going forward, I strongly agree with this comment:

11 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

So here's the scoop DE. Specifically regarding my thoughts on the stance issue and how people preferred quick melee.

Quick Melee was fine. There was nothing wrong with it, or manual blocking. Quick Melee using Stances is ITSELF fine, but you need to take a long, close look at your stances. Think about what input you're having people perform when you choose what you want the combo to be.

For instance, the forward-moving combo, or the neutral combo if there isn't one, is what people will be using when they're trying to MOVE SOMEWHERE. Don't mess with those, don't make them lock movement, don't make them a pain to have happen when people are trying to get somewhere.

Block Combos (Because manual blocking should come back, and you KNOW it should by now) have a bit more freedom to interfere with a person's movement, since if people wanted to be moving unhindered they'd be doing the neutral/forward combo. Personally I'd tend towards these more commonly being the nice, wide area attacks. Y'know, comparatively. A sweep kick for sparring weapons, something like that. Not every weapon can really do wide area, but you get the idea. Minor futzing with movement.

Back Combos, when you're holding backwards to perform it, are where you should put the fancy stuff. The stuff that really futzes with your movement should go here because holding back is both easy to do intentionally and you're the least likely to ever accidentally do it when trying to move somewhere.

Hold Combos and Pause Combos I'm not fond of existing at all to be honest. Both get increasingly finicky the higher your attack speed goes and hold combos interact weird with charge attacks (Which you apparently want to become more prominent?).

So yes. Forward/neutral combos for Minimum Interference, Block Combos for minor interference (Due to something like wide attacks or slams), and Back Combos for the fancy, animation heavy, movement locking stuff.

Think about what combos you're asking people to do and what animations said combo will have them do.

...

And bring back full-melee equip, honestly. At least an option for it, this isn't getting any less annoying, y'know? I am curious however on what you guys' thoughts are on the uh... response to your much touted Melee 2.9.

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With the current mode we have, its become even more obvious that the horizontal air attacks are a little suspect in terms of usability. 

It might be worthwhile to simply move the air attack to a dash-slam like the ground slam is, with limited range and an impact when you hit an enemy instead of hoping the air attack connects.  Unless of course there are other changes that are not obvious right now.

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Posted (edited)

This is Great i love it, particularly the melee channeling options as they are in this 2.9999997  

 

however 1 bug is that melee only client side block/aim glide gets stuck On works normally as host or in dojos

another thing

     when using melee and then i fire i am returned to the weapon i was not using, a-lot which totally removes benefit.

    

Edited by dyewithasmile
added another thing

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The new stuff is nice and all, but I rather take the old working combos. Since we are unable to do the combos which use right mouse button currently (unless you equip only melee weapon to a mission), I assume you are going to fix this in phase 2? Or are you going to rework all the combos that use a right mouse button? I hope this won't be one of those things you half-ass and leave behind and move on to other projects.

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