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Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread


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I seem to keep getting soft locked into melee mode where i cant switch back when clicking the fire button. It also locks me out of exodia contagion use when this happens (now that i figured out how to use again) 

Pressing the weapon switch key fixes this but ruins the flow

Edited by Alikka_TeSiw
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Not having block not only feels awkward, but also makes Electromagnetic Shielding and Guardian Derision completely useless. You can't use them effectively anymore without the continued use of blocking. Not to mention the lack of blocking for combos or the ability to hover with melee.

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For whatever reason, gunblades now feel terribly inconsistent when using primaries.  If I'm pressing my melee button, I'm only doing so because I want my Redeemer/Sarpa to shoot.  Going straight into combos (or worse, just equipping the gunblade without actually shooting) feels really bad.

 

Having an optional second keybind to either SHOOT or SWITCH specific to gunblades would make this rework feel so much better.  Alternatively, giving the Redeemer/Sarpa back their Melee 2.0 "hold to shoot, tap to swap" QM behavior would be great.

 

EDIT:  The behavioral inconsistencies seem strongly influenced by whether you equip the Redeemer/Sarpa while aimed.  Hipfire->melee fires, aimed->melee equips without doing anything.  If this could be made consistent (aiming doesn't break shooting) that'd be great.

Edited by Nick30075
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I like the idea about the quick melee, but it feels really unconfortable if you think about the lack of bullet jump, manual blocking and the difficulties with channeling. Like, really, you need a new keybind to channel the melee? I appreciate the work what you do with this game, but sadly this is the exact example, when you want to fix something what's not broken, and that makes it broken. Not to mention the lack of animation when you have melee in your hand and when you press the mouse button the other weapons just suddenly pop into your hand.

Edit: I almost forget. I don't have motion sickness but the new shaking animation make me feel nauseous.

Edited by Katze127
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Please, please tone down the melee slams. I don't want to send enemies around me flying all around with every slam combo I do. It just pushes them out of my range which is horribly inefficient.

I get that some people might enjoy this, so it's fine with me if some weapons do it - but please, not all of them. There's plenty of people who'd rather have a simple knockdown on slams, too.

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Tried to do the MR17 Test. Got ready to slam the Orb, but the game decided that I wasn't looking down enough and I flew off the map. I was almost looking straight down. Tested angles during mission and found that 1 pixel can be the difference between air attack and slam. Not exactly happy right now with the system. Also, going between shooting and melee really quick is nice and all, but I don't like that I have to be so cautious when actually trying to melee lest I get flung off the map at super speed like I almost did when I was ranking the Endura.

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Originally from watching the devstream I thought this was to make it easier to allow melee combos in quick melee without having to switch to melee mode, but after playing I guess once we melee we are in melee mode and we leave it once we shoot (Mouse button 1). However, I still would like to have a dedicated melee mode to allow the use of mouse buttons 1 and 2 for channeling and blocking. Much easier key mapping for me b.c my only other mouse buttons are for alt fire and rolling. So before when I slide melee I could easily do MB1+SHIFT+W+CTRL+E. In the current state I can't switch my other mouse buttons out for channel meaning I have to find another key on the keyboard for my thumb and still keep my right hand on mouse for direction.

Getting rid of the melee mode increases the buttons needed in the game for channel and block due to the inability to re-use buttons when in a dedicated melee mode. I am not sure how controller players feel about this change, but their options in their keybinds are more limited due to the design of the controller and buttons available.

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4 hours ago, pauli133 said:

My first impression is very simple: I want my (polearm) quick melee back.

This. Polearm attacks have been completely ruined now that we're forced into stance attacks. This problem was brought up many, MANY MANY MANY times when the idea was first floated. I'd bring up a whole library of past posts where various people pointed out that stanced melee is objectively inferior to quick melee, but the forums' search functionality seems to have completely broken.

Devs: why do you deem it a good thing for us to be locked into place while using melee attacks? How is being unable to move while hitting enemies with a Lesion good gameplay?

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In the name of streamlining, you have effectively made me require 2 buttons for attacking instead of 1.

I, as many others, use M1 for regular attacks. But I also use my thumb button for quickmelee attack, this now means that I have to use my thumb button as my primary attack button whenever I'm using one of my meleeframes (valkyr / garuda). This is really awkward as I'm starting to consider binding quickmelee to my M1 button and the actual attack button to my thumb button.

Don't get me wrong here, I like what you're trying to do but as of right now, it feels like you're trying to do away with melee in favour of gunplay. I'm sure this isn't your intention but I can't shake the feeling that instead of having two independent, well-working systems, you now have a conjoined system where the gunplay is the main body where as the meleeplay is the fetus stuck around your ankles.

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I am at Phase 2 of my experience with Melee changes (Phase 1 was more emotional) so here goes feedback:

In short: Unplayable


Long story in parts:
Blocking - it is dead. Literally dead. The changes of angle to 45 are bad, angle it too small (and mod doesn't improve it much) even enemy 1 floor below can shoot both my legs (and shields) down if I'm not looking at him. Blocking animation is still there and it is interrupted/not triggered when performing melee attack, which makes it less than half reliable in switching from gun to melee. Auto-Block always on if melee equipped just killed Reflex Guard mod, if anything was good for survivability to occupy spare Warframe slot - it was this mod, not some Primed Vigor and I mean it WAS good.

Quick melee - dead beyond return. Let me tell you 2 words: Bleeding Willow. This is just one example of stance that had quick melee attack not the same as first combo hits, and they were consistent. Now they are not - first hits are "quick melee" and perform first 3rd, then 2nd, then 3rd and 4th combo hit. Once done or interrupted - it will perform 1st hit in normal 1-2-3-4 order. Shimmering Blight has other problem, while performing combo hits as intended, it breaks combo-action in split second, at 1.46 Attack Speed there is about 0.6-0.7 second when you can press E button again to proceed performing combo hits, any split second late and it is back to 1st hit. Previously in Quick Melee combo-hits were accessible in about couple seconds, while in melee mode they were same as they're now.

Combo with block - these are wacky now, you need to Aim to proceed performing such combos, and they are not the kind of "blocking" anymore, as it felt before they were of different kind because blocking button had to be held to proceed. More to add - simply clicking RMB in melee to perform this kind of combo could trigger weapon Aim mid-action.

Ground Slam Attack - not to mention weird controls of this with 30-45 degree activation, all weapon range increase feels wrong when it comes to dual swords + ragdoll for all weapons, as opposed to previous ground slam only knocking down enemies.

Channeling - wasn't there an option before to have channeling on toggle or on hold? We need that. Because sometimes weapon could have mods installed like Life Strike that is one-time activate to hit and restore health, having now toggle-only is clunky.

FX changes - so bring it could trigger seizure, while I am not the one who could get hurt of this, all the effects from hits must be toned down or separated into slider in Graphic options. Each hit in relatively dark location feels like lightning strike in deep night.

P.S. While I appreciate all the work team has done around all of this, some/most parts of these changes need improvements.

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1 hour ago, vFlitz said:

Please, please tone down the melee slams. I don't want to send enemies around me flying all around with every slam combo I do. It just pushes them out of my range which is horribly inefficient.

I get that some people might enjoy this, so it's fine with me if some weapons do it - but please, not all of them. There's plenty of people who'd rather have a simple knockdown on slams, too.

This ruined the effectiveness of Exodia Hunt. By the time you get the pull effect, everyone has flown away from the slam attack and is out of range.

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I like the new melee update it's really fun and looks great, my biggest problem is simply just that since I can't aim glide with a melee weapon anymore I end up switching back to my last weapon being used (typically my primary) and this isn't an issue in most cases, pretty much just whenever I have to hold something, be it a data mass or a power core; It doesn't properly switch to my secondary when I have to fire or aim glide. so when crossing a large gap that I would cross with aim glide, if I had my melee out and tried to glide across, it switches to my primary which I had out before I started attacking with my melee, causing me to drop whatever I was carrying which is incredibly annoying.

Simple fix if you're carrying something with a melee weapon out, make it auto switch to secondary if someone tries to aim or shoot.

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Melee feels meatier, like I'm actually slugging these poor fools, which is kinda awesome, and the effects look likewise awesome.

Lack of a block button is kind of irking me, as much as I'm adoring the auto-block, I really did appreciate having some method of actively trying to protect myself, and most importantly, I'm sorely missing AimGlide with melee equipped.
Soaring in with your guard up, and not having yourself super-zoomed in because you didn't have a gun out, lets you survey the battlefield better to help aim your slam attacks, and also lets you keep your guard up while flying.

Also, I don't know if I'm hallucinating or remembering something incorrectly, but I feel like aerial attacks used to have more 'direction' to them, because I seem to recall bulletjumping at ceiling grates and meleeing through them, which I was not able to do.

Now that slam attacks are getting some aiming and distance to them, a HUD indicator for when your attack is going to be a slam attack or an aerial attack would be nice.

And Tatsu's stealth kill animations look odd, like a giant 2-handed katana is suddenly as light as a dagger.

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I've already said this in the general feedback thread, but please add an option to let us switch modes again. If things stay as they are, I don't see myself using melee much anymore, which is a shame because up until now I've used it a lot and quite enjoyed it.

I've bound my primary melee attack to mouse1 and with this new update that obviously no longer works because it conflicts with guns' primary fire. Maybe that's different for people with dainty, tiny elfhands but with my giant manpaws using my left hand for movement and melee attacks is going to be a problem.

edit: Yes, I'm aware of the "use primary fire to melee" option. That is not the same as being able to actually switch to a melee mode as a lot of things take you out of that mode again, aim gliding, for example. I feel like I'm fighting the controls and it's quite frustrating.

Between the constant switching out of melee mode that I didn't ask for and the autoblocking draining my energy (because of channeling) when I didn't even want to block I feel less in control than ever. Instead of blocking when I wanted to block, I know how to turn off channeling when I don't want the block I didn't want to do to drain my energy and I have to re-enter melee mode pretty much every time I parcoured when I didn't even want to stop being in melee. Basically I'm constantly trying to work around the controls and that cannot possibly have been the intention.

Edited by Nightfish2000
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I'm liking the update so far!
There are a couple problems I've noticed that are (hopefully) relatively easy to solve.

 

WEAPON SWITCHING:

  • Problem: When in melee mode, pressing "Switch weapon" (F) will switch back to gun mode without actually switching the gun. This means that pressing "Switch Weapon" will have inconsistent behaviours depending on whether you're in gun mode or melee mode.
  • Solution: Pressing "Switch weapon" will change to the "other" gun regardless of whether you're in gun mode or melee mode. (e.g. If you were holding a Primary and you entered melee mode, pressing F will immediately switch to Secondary.)
     
  • Problem: Switching weapons out of a melee attack is still slow, because upon pressing you have to:
    • wait for the melee attack animation to end,
    • wait for your frame to holster the melee weapon,
    • wait for your frame to pull out the gun,
      before you can start shooting. (A more-extreme version of this issue was very frequent prior to this update, mostly due to the way quick melee worked.)
  • Solution: Switching weapons during a melee attack will immediately cancel the attack and immediately begin the "holster the melee weapon" animation. Weapon swap speed should behave more consistently after this; it should be fairly in line with the time taken for gun-to-gun swapping.

 

"LeftMouseButton FOR MELEE" MODE:

  • Problem: Players who use this mode effectively have two melee buttons: LMB (does melee attacks, but only during melee mode) and the default melee key (does melee attacks, and is required to activate melee mode in the first place).
    This feels very awkward! Players want to do melee attacks with LMB rather than E... but the only way to activate this is by doing a full melee attack with E in the first place!
  • Solution: (Re)Introduce an optional "Switch to melee weapon" keybind, which instantly activates melee mode without actually doing an attack. If a player has "LMB for Melee" enabled, then this new keybind (which is basically just E without the attack animation) will act as their primary method of entering melee mode.
    Bonus points if "Channeling" can be bound to the same button, so pressing it while in melee mode will activate Channeling if the player desires.

 

 

Also: I cannot for the life of me figure out what the point of "Combo Resume" is. It feels like it activates very inconsistently, and I only notice it because it gets in the way of my combo activations very often.
I guess I should probably try to get used to it before complaining about it... but honestly, if I had an option to disable this, I would do so in a heartbeat.

Edited by SortaRandom
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Ever since the update I have been experiencing a bug with the PS4 controller that only lets me use the melee button once every time I pull my melee weapon. It has become very annoying and has made the game practically unplayable  

Update: still hasn’t been fixed after hotfix 

Edited by Jame234
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Please do something about polearms
With the new melee we are forced into either the stance combos or the no stance combo, and all of those have at least 1 swing that stops movement.  With quick melee before the change, we were able to freely move while swinging the polearm with its 2 twirling attacks.  The new changes make polearms feel absolutely terrible and tieba is already memeing about polearms dying and even Kripath rivens tanking.  Pretty much every other melee class got better for the change, I'd like polearms to be the same.

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Ran into some of the first hickups.

I'm an old-timer. don't know how to wasd.
So...
Still sticking to the directional keys, from being used to it since the days of Doom I and II (which carries over along the years, to any other shooter I play).

Anyways, this translates to:

My settings before melee 3.0 phase 1:

Spoiler

Quick melee: mousewheel up

Equip melee: mouse 5

Charged melee: delete

Secondary fire: right mouse

When switching to the zenistar (mouse 5), I would then throw it.
Switch back, and have full control over my guns.

So I ran into, not being able to throw my zenistar at first.
Did some key bindings, and now it looks like this:

Spoiler

Melee attack:: mousewheel up / mouse 5

Secondary fire: right mouse

What this does, is solve the problem.
Partially...

I equipped both the Zenistar, and Corinth next.

The new setup goes smooth.
Allows for easy, swift melee attacks. 
Along with throwing the zenistar disc (holding mouse 5).

However, here is where the problem comes in.

After doing a melee, or charged melee.
I want to fire a secondary shot from my Corinth.
Which does not happen, as I am holding the Zenistar in hand.
Due to melee attacks, now defaulting, to wielding your melee.

I have to first, perform a primary shot (so it swaps back to my Corinth), before a secondary blast can be made.

A toggle key to 'keep primary / secondary' in hand, would be a perfect solution.
Still allowing full Zenistar usage, without obstructing secondary fire mode.

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I'm going to break my criticisms down into the individual changes, so I can go into specifics:

Removal of manual unsheathing for melee:

-Loss of the "Draw melee weapon" keybind was pointless. Before, you could bind any key to draw your melee, and this keybind could be kept entirely separate from any other keybinds to prevent overlap. This option wasn't hurting anything, and now the only way to draw your melee is to do a dummy swing, which is clunky, awkward, and jerks players' momentum to a halt.

-Sword and Shield holster styles only changed your sheathing/unsheathing animation. Loss of manual unsheathing makes these animations defunct, despite them costing platinum.

Removal of manual blocking:

-Melee combos that use right-click now sometimes result in an awkward, disorienting zoom-in.

-The quick melee changes now result in one button to draw your melee, and three to sheathe it, when right- click could easily remain as block, and left click could remain as your primary fire.

-Block-based mods are now subject to the largely finicky auto-block system, which makes them inherently unreliable, since auto-block has a short radius, even with the mod to increase it.

-Aim glide for melee weapons would have synergized nicely with targeted ground slams, but swapping to gun mode to aim glide results in disorienting zoom-in that limits your vision.

Elemental VFX:

-Not much criticism here, other than certain energy color/elemental type combos being too bright and flashy.

Edited by Joker_317
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Melee has always been one of my major ways of playing Warframe. I actually enjoyed melee enough to actually create certain builds around it as well. While not all of my builds were effected (as many of the other posts go on about), one setup I had was majorly destroyed for lack of a better term.

The build I use is specifically for the Ack & Brunt. Since blocking is no longer something you can manually control, Guardian Derision and Electromagnetic Shielding both have no effect as it requires you to be "blocking" for the effects to go off. The block that occurs apparently doesn't counting as "blocking" as it doesn't trigger the effects of these mods and has killed some major runs for my guild and friends due to this not working. Even if the mods did work with the new blocking system, I imagine it wouldn't be useful as you have virtually no control over the taunt or protection mechanics of these mods anymore.

To me, the way the old melee worked was fine. It had things about it that needed to be fixed but this phase 1 fixed most of those things. I definitely don't think removing block/quick melee was the answer though. This is Phase 1 though so I remain optimistic that these issues will be addressed, granted I won't be able to use some of my favorite setups until after the updates.

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Honestly, I can't really see that much of a benefit in doing away with the old system, or not making it an option to stick with the old. The new system feels like most of your control over melee has been taken away, with guns simply forcing themselves on you instead. It feels odd to have to aim to use RMB combo (which as mentioned also feel disoriented and off now because of zoom residuals; you can also get knocked out of the RMB loop far easier than ever before now), or having to look to block instead of having a block button. Channeling requiring a new keybind also adds another button to map, while also making it less reflexive to use Channeling for its primary purpose (Life Strike). One idea I would see is if Channeling could be double-bound with Reload instead of just having its own button. Right now tho, it feels like you can't stay focused on what you're doing, whether it be using a gun or melee. I'd say the problem isn't so much that quick melee switches to melee, but that guns can switch you out of melee.

Of course, most of these tie in with the general problem of combo inputs. You need to get those swings out as fast as possible to deal real damage, so combo inputs like Hold or Delay are simply detrimental to have. Now RMB isn't reliable either, so stance combos are really Forward or nothing most of the time. I would say that changing from the current system to having two melee attack buttons and two stance combo loops tied to those buttons would be ideal. But practically I feel it would be better to bring back manual block, fire to channel, and other parts of the old system back as an option instead of the new system, or have an option to not have instant melee-to-gun switches.

Or at least bring back manual block instead of zoom overriding it.

 

Related criticism: Melee still needs unrestricted sprinting during combos back. Melee SHOULD be faster than other forms of fighting, the current states of most likely being SLOWER is just wrong when melee requires closing the gap all the time. And NO MELEE ATTACK should stop your movement.

 

The new elemental FX are quite nice to look at tho (well, most are anyway, Toxin and Gas don't look nearly as rad as Electricity), albeit it's a pity we are sort of forced to Toxin(+whatev) looks due to only a certain elemental mod being Primed.

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New players are going to hate losing energy on automated, mandatory blocking. 

Bring back the manual block, please, and make autoblocking optional. 

Melee aimglide too, since it actually gives you more aerial control with melees. "Flow" may have looked good on paper, but it feels way too random and forced in game. 

I'd much rather have a no-delay "switch to melee" button than this.

 

On a separate note, since we now have a melee-specific reticle, can we PLEASE make it detect/display if the aerial attack is going to be a slam or not? Like, changing shape depending on what's going to happen at that particular attack angle?

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Hello,

My very first post and I hope my howl is heard from the distance.

Melee was one of my fave things in this game, the chance to have a blade, claws, etc. made me feel powerful. But now all this changed with the latest update.

I can't say much about this game overall since I have just started playing this game a couple months ago and I just logged 1800 hours. But that was all I needed to fall in love with many of the features of this fast phased action game.

I used to feel my barehands holding my Skiajati with Ash Prime (thanks for it, I got it in the Dev Stream) blocking projectiles and using channeling as I wanted and needed. The powerful feeling of having claws with the Venka Prime on the best of all Warframes, Valkyr. But now I must complain about the things this update has done to my gameplay.

I know as I have read the "Agreement" that "DE reserves to change any aspect of the game without notice or consent of the players" in other words "This is your game and you can do whatever you want with it and we will need to adapt to it or just stop playing it". For my luck in the past when I got that message I was just complaining about the "Operator Suits" which I paid for something cool and it ended looking like a satellite in an update which was rapidly rolled back. But now it all goes to Melee.

My Constructive Topic about Melee.

It feels wrong not to have the option to block manually. At the Dojo we used to do a lot of Melee trainning and now it all has gone to an auto block that works when it feels like it.
ANUAL BLOCKING must RETURN.
Switching to a Melee gun requieres us to press the Melee attack key, making it feel like Melee is not needed anymore, its there like when we need an extra weapon to attack with rather than the elegance of having it unsheathed.
The F key... MELEE must RETURN.
Channeling, something feels wrong about it, I can't fit four functions in a three buttons mouse and the game will not allow me to set Melee Channel and Secondary Fire in different buttons. Say I cannot use Channeling as it used to be because it overrides any of the following "Fire Weapon", "Aim Weapon" and "Secondary Fire" so even if I try to make it feel like in the past it still tells me that either of the before is not bond and it cannot go. I don't know what was wrong with the old set up but I think...
CHANNELING must RETURN to where it was.
Air Drop, amazing, except when the game confuses my actions to wall attack and air dash into an air drop and makes me fall into oblivion or completely miss my target.
Air Drop must STAY but it should be reworked in the way its used, it could be set to HOLD and AIM and then RELEASE.

I'm pretty sure the MeleeBlocking and Channeling options could have stayed, it didn't bothered anyone and having the quick melee and full melee splitted helped a lot with the various player styles. Remember not everyone goes around shooting guns as not everyone goes around whipping while sliding *cough cough Maiming Strike*. Some of us like to feel the game in a different way, using our Melee weapons with more precision, aiming right, dashing right, air dropping like a bad. ass... as said in the radio and of course more damage while channeling and the skills of a true swordman by blocking, even if it wasn't a real blocking at all it did saved me a couple of times.

When I first heard about Melee 3.0 I thought it was going to be something more like a true melee combat, crossing blades, the need to block to be safe, having to fight more enemies that used that kind of weapons, enabling more combos and stances, improving damage as the combos were executed at the right time and speed. But I didn't thought it was going to remove features. I would love to see it more pulished, the Melee style didn't feel outdated or wrong as it was, but like I might have said it feels like having a blade now feels like its not there at all. Now the game aims more into guns rather than Melee. Some might say I'm right in some points, others might say I might be wrong but I had my style and all I loved from this game is lost, at least for the Phase 1 of the update. Quicker and all in one does not means quality or smooth, specially when features are left aside, holding my F key now goes to nothing... there is nothing left for me...

The new warframe (Rhino's Girlfriend) feels like it belongs from another game... but maybe that's the reason of the update... who knows...

Edit : I haven't noticed one thing, if you are about to CHARGE your Melee attack and you by accident press the aim button it switches to the gun... this feature should be locked as its being charged.

Edit II : Void Blast gone needed to rebind...

Edit III : *Heavenly Choirs* The Best this Update has given us... the chance to keep playing while others can extract without affecting the match ❤️ Thank you DE.

Edit IV : *Passes out in seizure* Trading..... Trraaaa..... I can select all I want without having to go back to the menu ❤️❤️❤️❤️ 


Kind Regards Developers, thank you for this great game... !!!

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Can we have old quick melee animations back? I'm using Lesion with Shimmering Blight and the basic combo is bloody horrendous. Instead of the old quick melee, which was fluid and allowed you to keep moving as you killed enemies, I now have this awkward combo that locks me into animation for no reason. I deal less damage and have to watch enemies kill me while I do weird animations. Either make combos actually fluid, or bring back quick melee please.

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