Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

[SilviaS12]

Melee 3.0 is perfect in every way not a single issue anywhere and no way stops melee functions. Everything is as perfect as it could ever been. All the issues outlined by other players are just figments of the imagination. It's perfectly normal to have the game play for you with the aid of auto block. Every gamer knows gameplay is automatic in every way.  They should just add auto attack now along with auto quest and it will all be gravy. Who needs the other melee functions such as block gliding anyway? Not to mention switching to melee or ranged, If its auto we don't need to worry about it the game does it for us, magically teleporting the weapons to our hands and on our backs because it's just that much more realistic and doesn't do a thing to immersion, roleplay or realism, if anything it makes all that better and more realistic and obviously it's way more complicated programming to do so, and don't forget we got to have auto fire and auto reload too those are staples of gaming since ever. They really need to hurry up and finish this update so we can have everything automatically automatic. To all the people who keep saying they are sick of hearing about melee quit being selfish this is not about you ranged players so just keep your comments to yourself this is about melee players. Melee players who use melee with ranged or just melee. Not you ranged players who use ranged alone or ranged with melee. A tenno I am. Here in my new home. I am here on the forums to stay thanks to melee 3.0. Come one come all to slice and dice me, let your bullets sear and pierce me. If you guys are sick of these posts the toilet is there for you to barf. Automatically that is. 

entire thread was originally sarcastic but it is now magically in the feedback section so appropriately adjusting for being in the feedback area

Edited March 18, 2019 by SilviaS12
this seems to have magically appeared here as it was on it's own thread. just moved somehow along with the other posts about 3 minutes ago. mods why have you done this?

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Wow, what a... hm. What a read.

2 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

What are your thoughts on melee 3.0?

Good question. Don't know yet. Console's a *@##$.

[EquinoxPrime]

Why oh why would you make yet another thread on this subject while there are plenty to choose from and offer your feedback? 🤦‍♀️

It’s not “perfect” in its current incarnation, there are a lot of things to work out. No “figment of the imagination” about it. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by EquinoxPrime

[AvPCelticPredator]

4 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

Melee 3.0 is perfect

Speak in your own name! 😉

[SilviaS12]

8 hours ago, EquinoxPrime said:

Why oh why would you make yet another thread on this subject while there are plenty to choose from and offer your feedback? 🤦‍♀️

It’s not “perfect” in its current incarnation, there are a lot of things to work out. No “figment or the imagination” about it. 

 it's just perfect (sarcasm, but mod thinks this is feedback worthy)! Behold! Melee 3.0! With all the melee action you can think of! Just open your eyes and look like the tenno in the sacrifice! This ain't no feedback post, it's a general discussion about melee as it is and peoples thoughts, 

The almighty Orokin have moved the entire(partial actually) thread to the feedback section, as a result it is now feedback post worthy of being feedback material.

Edited March 18, 2019 by SilviaS12
thread was moved to feedback for some reason adjusting post for appropriation of new area it was moved to.

[SilviaS12]

1 minute ago, AvPCelticPredator said:

Speak in your own name! 😉

My tenno name? Because that's all I've got.😆😆

[Marine027]

But isn't it 2.99 still? Not finished yet.

[SilviaS12]

8 hours ago, EquinoxPrime said:

Why oh why would you make yet another thread on this subject while there are plenty to choose from and offer your feedback? 🤦‍♀️

It’s not “perfect” in its current incarnation, there are a lot of things to work out. No “figment of the imagination” about it. 

And it has to be perfect. Do you not hear and see all the other players telling the melee players how perfect it is? Have your head been stuck in the soils of fortuna?

Edited March 18, 2019 by SilviaS12
entire thread was originally sarcastic but it is now magically in the feedback section so appropriately adjusting for being in the feedback area

[Wyrmius_Prime]

They just gotta fix the bugs with auto block and all will be good.

[SilviaS12]

8 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

They just gotta fix the bugs with auto block and all will be good.

There are no bugs with auto block, it's perfect, we need auto shoot and auto melee attack now. We need auto everything!

Edited March 18, 2019 by SilviaS12
entire thread was originally sarcastic but it is now magically in the feedback section so appropriately adjusting for being in the feedback area

[SilviaS12]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I can't wait for the changes, as always. First it's hated as hell but over time it'll unfold into glorious fun. 

I can't wait either! It's going to be so fun when they make the rest of the game full auto. I can even play the game at home while I'm at work! So perfect and amazing!

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by SilviaS12
thread was originally sarcastic but it is now in the feedback section so appropriately adjusting for being in the feedback area

[AvPCelticPredator]

1 minute ago, SilviaS12 said:

This ain't no feedback post, it's a general discussion about melee as it is and peoples thoughts, are you a ranged player or something?

This is a free forum, everyone is entitled to their opinion and clarification.
You opened the thread and everyone can say what he wants.
This thread is not your private property, so you can't tell someone something like that "Get out here"!

Respect others if u wanna be respected member of communiity! 😉

[xZeromusx]

il y a une heure, Iliac_Prime a dit :

Before I get bombarded with the classic "Git Gud" I see a lot on the forums, I tried to look this stuff up online and have asked in game.  The only stuff I find is prepatch videos on the melee.  If there is a place to look up what I am having trouble with, I can't find it.

None of it is just "Git gud" when this new system LITERALLY breaks every single ability that relied on block on command. You're not alone on that at all. It's the part of this whole thing that hurt my plays style the most too, as I like to use Guardian Derision or Electromagnetic Shielding. You HAVE to be able to have complete and total control over your ability to block to control these mods. So so much of all of this could have felt 1000x better if auto-blocking never made it to the table at all. It might not have been perfect, but as it stands, the auto-blocking hurts soooo many things about all of this, and it could be such a simple fix if they just made RMB function how it did pre 2.9999.

Things Auto-blocking breaks or makes cumbersome

1. Electromagnetic Shielding (mentioned already)

2. Guardian Derision (mentioned already)

3. Parkour (This is probably the worst part of all of this)

DE, if you REALLY want Auto-blocking in the game, you could make it toggled. OR, since Reflex Guard was never really used much before, you could add it back to that and make it a dual stat mod that increases the angle and the % chance to auto-block. Then, most players can ignore it now as they did before save those who are so in love with this new intrusive auto block system.

Edited March 17, 2019 by xZeromusx

[krc473]

1 minute ago, SilviaS12 said:

There are no bugs with auto block,

Last time I played there were. I kept getting stuck with “block” permanently on. I am sure this will be fixed before Melee 3.0 though.

[EquinoxPrime]

4 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

are you a ranged player or something? You sound like one to me. If so this thread is not for you.

You know what they say about people who assume?

I am a melee main, just not delusional enough to dismiss the current issues with the system as it stands. 

[Loza03]

Melee 2.99 is not perfect, nor is it even complete. It is literally phase 1 of a larger rework.

24 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

They really need to hurry up and finish this update so we can have everything automatically automatic

No. This is not an automatic game. The devs will literally ban you if you implement macros that automate the game. This game will not be automatic.

26 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

A tenno I am.

A master of gun and blade.

you talk of 'Melee players' and 'ranged players' when the whole point of this update was to blur those lines.

[Critiamat]

As a someone who is addicted to Life Strike mod my only issue is that channeling is now toggled on/off not hold like before...

[xZeromusx]

Le 07/03/2019 à 20:03, [DE]Danielle a dit :

 

  Masquer le contenu

BLOCKING

Blocking with a melee weapon is no longer keybound, it is automatic when facing enemies who are dealing damage to you in melee mode. Your Reticle determines all! 

FEEDBACK GUIDELINES

Before posting feedback on Phase 1 of the Melee Revisit be sure to spend enough time with her in different missions! Once you feel you have handle on what she’s all about, and would like to share your thoughts, here is a fast guide from a Dev side to write good, useful feedback. A well constructed and thought out post is the way to go! 

1. Keep it simple
Write simple, directed points about the topic you feel strongly about. Remember to be constructive and to the point.

2. Back it up
Support your points with concrete points. X has better stats than Y. This ability is less useful when considering X. Provide in-game situational evidence or a solid foundation for your argument to rest upon.

3. Be polite
The best feedback occurs when two people discuss opposing viewpoints to find a constructive middle ground. Discussion is a natural part of feedback! Ensuring that it is polite and without personal attacks is key. We’re far less inclined to listen to feedback filled with personal attacks and rude speech. We are all trying our best!

The Forums can be an amazing tool when used correctly. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on Phase 1 of the Melee Revisit! 

I guess I should write my feedback in the preferred method if I want to convey my points. I don't think many here (including myself) have done that. So, my apologies and here I'll take a crack at my single, major constructive critique of this new system: Auto-blocking.

Disclaimer: I will probably explain some concepts you're already aware of Danielle, but for the sake of those that may be ignorant to some of the finer points of the game, some explanations will probably be necessary. I will begin with the issues first, then move to the solution(s).

My points:

1. Auto-blocking makes Guardian Derision unreliable

Guardian Derision, as many know, attracts the ire of enemies nearby while a player is blocking. I understand that this game is a third person shooter, but this mod is effectively what many that have played RPGs would call an AOE taunt. In a shooter game, this might not seem that important or that big of a deal, and I think that's a fair assessment. HOWEVER, the mod exists in the game, it still functions in melee 3.0 phase 1 as it did in melee 2.0, the only difference now being how we activate it, and here in lies the issue. In melee 2.0, to activate Guardian Derision, all we had to do was hold down our block button. Pretty simple. In melee 3.0, to activate Guardian Derision, we have to already have the enmity of an enemy, and be facing them. Pause here. Now mull that over for a moment. In order to activate a mod that taunts enemies, we must already have the enmity of an enemy. I know this is a shooter game, but any MMORPG developer should be able to see the error in that mechanic. IF the player does not have the enmity of an enemy to use to activate this mod, then there is no taunt. IF the allies that the player is trying to protect have the enmity of enemies instead, then the player is unable to protect them.

2. Auto-blocking makes Electromagnetic Shielding unreliable

Electromagnetic Shielding, as many know, is a mod for Ack&Brunt which transfers 50% of the damage a nearby ally would take to the player while the player is blocking. Again, I get that this game is a shooter, I question why taunts and damage redirects to protect allies exist in this game to begin with, but they have existed now long enough that many players (including myself) have made entire support builds around them. To anyone that has played an MMORPG like Final Fantasy 14 (which I have), you'll recognize Electromagnetic Shielding as essentially behaving similarly to cover abilities of protection and tank classes like Paladins, and it's even for a shield and weapon combo. Just like Guardian Derision, in melee 2.0, this mod functioned with the click of the right mouse button. In melee 3.0, to activate Electromagnetic Shielding, you have to actively be the target an enemy already. If you are not, this cover ability does not activate, and your allies take 100% of their damage, and you're unable to provide them with protection.

3. Auto-blocking and parkour

This aspect honestly just seems buggy or not performing as intended, but I'll cover it regardless. Many players have complained that auto-blocking activates when doing parkour with melee weapons out, causing them to go into the aim glide animation. I am sure the developers are well aware of how much precision and how much skill it requires to perform parkour movement effectively. They created several rank challenges that require you to prove your ability to do just that after all. So, players being forced into a parkour movement they did not intend to perform can mean that regardless of your skill at movement, a stray enemy projectile can be the difference between making that vertical high jump, and instead face planting into the wall because you start gliding forward rather than vaulting up.

My suggested solutions:

1. Remove auto-blocking entirely. This, I feel, is a must. Removing auto-blocking entirely and instead making the right mouse button perform the same functions it did in melee 2.0 would honestly solve every single one of the issues I mentioned above. Further, it was always about the aiming reticle in melee 2.0 anyways. Pressing block in melee 2.0 while facing away from an enemy did not reduce your damage, but at the very least, it allowed you to activate Guardian Derision and Electromagnetic Shielding on command. Further, auto-blocking would no longer interrupt parkour if there was no auto-blocking. On top of all of that, blocking was another aspect of the game that required at least a modicum of skill to perform. You had to face the enemy to get that damage reduction, you had to activate the block before the damage came in rather than it just activating on its own. It felt more real that way as opposed to being able to ignore the function entirely because it will either activate on its own, or it won't.

2. Put auto-blocking back on Reflex Guard. Before melee 3.0, Reflex Guard was essentially auto-blocking. For many reasons, some I might have listed above, many players did not use this mod. Now, it's essentially built into the game, players can't turn it on or off at will, and Reflex Guard, I noticed, was changed to increase the angle of auto-blocking, and many players still don't use Reflex Guard now because of the issues they face with auto-blocking in melee 3.0 would only be exacerbated by it. So, if you want to keep auto-blocking available to players, I would put it back on Reflex Guard AND make Reflex Guard a dual stat mod, with both % auto-block chance, with a max of 100% at max rank AND an increase of angle for the auto-block. Solution 1 is pretty much a necessity as we need control over blocking, but if you wish to keep auto-blocking available in the game, I feel this solution is a very elegant compromise, and I would suggest both. You can never go wrong with giving the players themselves more power to choose.

3. (my somewhat less favored solution) Put auto-blocking into a toggle setting in the options menu. To me, honestly, this feels less elegant, but it's been suggested, so I feel I should put it here. It would still require the ability to manually block, regardless of the setting, but it essentially becomes a free Reflex Guard from 2.0 wedged into the game menu. Not my preferred change, but there you have it.

4. (my least favorite solution) Do something with Guardian Derision and Electromagnetic Shielding. Alter them, remove them entirely, make them always on when melee is out, whatever. It doesn't solve the issue with parkour, but that might just be something that isn't working as intended. If auto-blocking is just here to stay no matter what, you NEED to do SOMETHING to address these mods, as they seem like glaring oversights in all of this with how utterly unreliable they have become.

Things I appreciate:

I don't like coming off as if I am overwhelmingly negative. I tend to get received that way when I am being analytical. I want you to know that there are some things I do like about the changes. Faster weapon switch between melee and gun DOES make it feel less like two separate fighting systems. There are some minor things between them that still feel like they haven't been fully tweaked, some animation lock still when trying to pull out a gun mid combo seems to be the only other thing besides the blocking issue I would try to clean up to make it REALLY feel like there is smooth flow. I know it's a complex and difficult task to implement this change. A big part of me wishes that you didn't do this in phases, as the nature of irreducible complexity means that something beautiful can become much less so when you try to break it down into its pieces. Hopefully, it is a situation of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

Edited March 17, 2019 by xZeromusx

[TrigrH]

Can we PLEASE add an option to toggle autoblock off in the settings and have hold for channeling? I would really like to play Warframe again 😞

Edited March 18, 2019 by TrigrH

[Iliac_Prime]

If DE really wants automatic blocking, they can do it.  I actually like it.  The problem is it interferes with what you are actively doing.  Here is my solution for it:

1.  Allow us to remap active blocking when melee weapon is out.  Make it block more damage then passive blocking and allow us to use blocking again for mods and weapon abilities and animations.

2.  Passive block - When your melee weapon is selected (Or even when your gun is selected) make a ghostly animation autoblock the project and leave the warframes actual movement alone.  Sort of how like Mesa's Peacemaker looks.

Then all that is left as far as I am concerned is the option to quick melee attack that doesn't go into a combo.

[TrigrH]

2 hours ago, Iliac_Prime said:

If DE really wants automatic blocking, they can do it.  I actually like it.  The problem is it interferes with what you are actively doing.  Here is my solution for it:

1.  Allow us to remap active blocking when melee weapon is out.  Make it block more damage then passive blocking and allow us to use blocking again for mods and weapon abilities and animations.

2.  Passive block - When your melee weapon is selected (Or even when your gun is selected) make a ghostly animation autoblock the project and leave the warframes actual movement alone.  Sort of how like Mesa's Peacemaker looks.

Then all that is left as far as I am concerned is the option to quick melee attack that doesn't go into a combo.

What if I want to actively take damage? Whats the solution to that?

[Iliac_Prime]

That's true, some frames and mods do better when they take damage.  Maybe make an option to turn off the passive block then?  Overall I think the more control and options we have the better.  Like I said in my previous post, If I had to chose phase 1 melee and old melee I choose old melee at this point.

[SilviaS12]

9 hours ago, EquinoxPrime said:

Why oh why would you make yet another thread on this subject while there are plenty to choose from and offer your feedback? 🤦‍♀️

It’s not “perfect” in its current incarnation, there are a lot of things to work out. No “figment of the imagination” about it. 

@EquinoxPrime not being sarcastic anymore, I agree with your statement here whole heartedly.

[SilviaS12]

9 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Melee 2.99 is not perfect, nor is it even complete. It is literally phase 1 of a larger rework.

No. This is not an automatic game. The devs will literally ban you if you implement macros that automate the game. This game will not be automatic.

A master of gun and blade.

you talk of 'Melee players' and 'ranged players' when the whole point of this update was to blur those lines.

No one ever once said anything about using macros, the entire thread was being sarcastic as @DeMonkey pointed out (his/her posts were not carried over for some strange reason) and you missed the point. In any case the thread was moved to a serious thread for some reason and to clear the air, I agree with your statements here whole heartedly.

Edited March 18, 2019 by SilviaS12

[SilviaS12]

8 hours ago, krc473 said:

Last time I played there were. I kept getting stuck with “block” permanently on. I am sure this will be fixed before Melee 3.0 though.

Just to clear the air @krc473 I agree with you on this statement 100% I had that issue too. It does seem to be sometimes but I haven't figured out when it truly occurs, earlier in this thread someone said if you are hosting a game the issue won't affect you. but I have not confirmed this.