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[DE]Danielle

Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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Posted (edited)

At this point I feel like this is the Saryn rework all over again.  An enormous outcry of people screaming that this is bad, but DE have their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA EVERYTHING IS FINE EVERYONE LOVES IT LA LA LA". 

Thing is, this problem isn't going to go away like Saryn's did.  Back then, those of us that loved original Saryn and hated new Saryn could just move to another frame, like I did (and I still hate new Saryn btw!), or they had to pump forma in to Saryn to adjust to the new play style, but this melee system is affecting EVERYONE.  It's ruining a lot of people's play styles, it requires forma on multiple frames AND weapons to adjust, and people aren't going to put up with that crap.

If phase 2 of the melee rework is only a few weeks away, then I guess it's fine for us to wait and see how it combines with phase 1 and make a judgement, but if we're going to be waiting months for it, then for the love of god roll back phase 1 to the original melee system or let us toggle it on or off while we wait, because people do not want to play with a broken system for a prolonged period of time. 

Let us know how long we'll be waiting for more changes, let us know that you have seen the negative outcry for this new melee system, SAY SOMETHING to acknowledge that you are listening to this feedback thread instead of keeping your mouth shut and acting like you're ignoring the massive pile of problems this new system has introduced.  You're a company that prides itself on player feedback and interacting with the community, so break the endless silence you've given in this thread to let people know you are paying attention, otherwise this really will be a repeat of the Saryn rework, where you just ignored the negative feedback of Saryn players, said nothing at all, and left us all bitter and disappointed with no explanation as to why you ignored us.

Edited by Konachibi
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10 minutes ago, Konachibi said:

At this point I feel like this is the Saryn rework all over again.  An enormous outcry of people screaming that this is bad, but DE have their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA EVERYTHING IS FINE EVERYONE LOVES IT LA LA LA". 

Thing is, this problem isn't going to go away like Saryn's did.  Back then, those of us that loved original Saryn and hated new Saryn could just move to another frame, like I did (and I still hate new Saryn btw!), or they had to pump forma in to Saryn to adjust to the new play style, but this melee system is affecting EVERYONE.  It's ruining a lot of people's play styles, it requires forma on multiple frames AND weapons to adjust, and people aren't going to put up with that crap.

 

I'm sorry, even if you gave me 1000 forma or more it will never fix the game mechanics for melee, new weapons? If I had every melee weapon in the game and 100 different types of nikanas it still renders every single one of them useless, only little quick slash side peices to ranged weapons. Even if there were 100 more totally new frames to choose from it still doesn't change anything, I would be more than satisfied to have melee exclusive selection whilst having guns equipped with only a handful of forma with a plain old nikana and only my nidus.

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Over all i think this melee rework is nice especially the new particle system,

However i do not fully agree with the new control scheme here are my thoughts:

1) I very much liked the dedicated button to keep melee equiped as i used mouse button 1 to attack when it was equiped so i find it annoying that i now can't do that, i know that kind of defeats the point of the rework but i think people would like options.

2)There are some issues with warframe abilities and the rework but im sure you are alread aware of them so i won't go into depth.

3)Some of the combos require buttons that now just equip your weapon which i find extremely annoying to use but these weapons more often than not end up being my best weapons before the rework now i hardly use them at all because i just can't get on with them.

I hope you take this feedback into consideration,

 

thank you.

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13 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

The issue is still one of narrowing players' choice. I quite enjoyed using my ranged weapons completely separated from my melee, and the only change I wanted in any fashion to that toggling setup was a faster swap; NOT the removal of the ability to actually, physically, permanently HOLD my melee in my own frame's hands. I especially did not desire the awkward fusion of weapon slots at present; and adding a shot to replace quick melee when I would really rather have it re-implemented altogether, is genuinely just as janky to ponder. I genuinely liked not shooting while in melee, and I preferred melee being limited to quick attacks for things that closed the gap when using my ranged weapons. I had literally zero issue with the old system other than the oddness of having mods like Twitch, Speed Holster, and Soft Hands for swap speed. If DE wanted to "streamline" combat, they should have just removed those mods and made the instant swap speed that gives you with weapons inherent. 

I respect the hard work they've put into this game and hearing player feedback in the past, and the fact that everyone at Digital Extremes is still working as we speak; but if this is just an early phase of the "improved" melee, than its an alarming sign of tampering with diamonds. The old control setup worked just fine, and it really would make more sense to add the inherent .2 second swap granted by those holster mods for PVE/conclave as a part of the game's programming in the first place; then remove those mods altogether.

I don't want to repeat myself at present by quoting my longest response to this thread; and the busy, hardworking folks at DE are, by and large, better developers than in the US; but the forced implementation of an awkward new mechanics and the complete removal of what was my favorite playstyle just doesn't feel satisfying; not to mention feels completely out of character for developers that have prior listened to our complaints and concerns. 

Or to put my patient, but frustrated, feelings into pictorial form:

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You're devs with heart and a willingness to actually listen to the customer (albeit, technically the customer of your cosmetics, since the game is free). I sincerely hope that all you wonderful folks at DE don't suddenly turn away from that prior trend; and insist in keeping this Human Centipede of a new system because a few Dante/Ryu/Bayonetta/etc. wannabes went "but muh devil trigger!" and demanding you vivisect all the prior mechanics.

Also, to raise another point...

While I think the poster of this topic jumped to conclusions too quickly, should have posted this to the main feedback thread instead, and was rude to you as the developers; some of those responding to them were just as impolite. Have a look at the comments posted by the users @(PS4)LoisGordils, @Deadoon, and @Bazynga. These are the sort of "space ninja" you are catering this awkward fusion toward. If you're going to heed the feedback of hotheads who don't ever bother to criticize changes and are willing to respond like this to those that dislike what you've given us so far, you guys at Digital Extremes aren't listening to feedback at all. 

As a Valkyr main that no longer can enjoy himself, I ask, please, just listen. Listen to those actually saying something besides praising the very ground you walk on. You guys are nice people, and you're hardworking developers, programmers, artists, and mixers; but this just is not the way to go, and it isn't satisfying to use for those who used 99% melee prior to this point. I've poured 2,681 hours into this beautiful sci-fi game with intriguing lore, but of late the fun is just gone, and only Nightwave rewards motivate me to play at all. Melee combat doesn't feel like combat at all if that weapon is a side garnish I'm not allowed to directly wield and hold in my hands as long as I feel like. Valkyr doesn't feel like Valkyr.

Which response of mine traumatized you? I do not recall commenting here. Please quote me or something 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-03-19 at 1:09 AM, Maxim_M_Payne said:

 I sincerely hope that all you wonderful folks at DE 

Keep telling y'all the enemies are wayy too stupid in all games so players turn into gloating trash, because they get Instant gratification or reach maximum gear, level so everything dies in one bullet extraction. matchmaking feeling broken by overpowered players who complete repetitive goals, rare treasure , training and exploration is boring or null, there are no large dinosour or anything large-scale to fear and keep players feeling like heroes instead of self absorbed elites, something needs to change in all planets.

without a doubt you should start by making sure the enemies can dodge and block or perform escape rolls 😂😉, give them new passive strengths, or camouflage, doesn't have to be invisibility, but they give up some challenge, footsteps trigger ambushes and alarms in some areas, many machine guns and robots come too late players can just fly to another area the doors are not ditficult to hack, I would have electrified the floors and shut-off the power to the while quadrant, player have to use flash lights and are on energy collectors detector are seeking that signal to keep casual players going 😂👌, there needs to be monsters or scary things, reason I don't go to Lunaro anymore.., reason u don't go fishing in Mars to get chat going brave. New abilities to equip, or augmentsframe widget

Edited by (PS4)santospizarro

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On 2019-03-07 at 6:03 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

CHANNELING
Channeling is now a toggle set to your alt-fire button when in melee mode.
Your 'F' button (if using default key bindings) now exclusively swaps between Primary and Secondary weapons with a tap.
Your left mouse button is gun fire, always, instantly.
Your right mouse button is now aim, always, instantly.

Channeling, by default, is still set to primary fire button not the alt-fire button. What are we supposed to do if we want to alt-fire right after using melee? Not everyone has a mouse with more than 3 buttons.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Which response of mine traumatized you? I do not recall commenting here. Please quote me or something 

Traumatized is not the word. You saying to another player, word for word, that their post "Reeks of small d**k energy" simply struck me as extremely rude and immature.

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On 2019-03-15 at 12:22 AM, Maxim_M_Payne said:

I've responded so many times to this thread, and this is the exact same point I've raised each time; the core root of the problem. I am getting utterly frustrated with DE's complete disregard to the feedback of anyone that used PRIMARILY melee weapons. Instead, the whole team seems to be acting in favor of merely fixing the bugs reported by the players that don't protest this awkward fusion of controls, and follow the train of logic that "It's like a Devil Trigger in my Animu fightin' games so it must be good".

My Many Dearly Missed Enjoyments of the "Bad" Melee 2.0

I liked actually being able to toggle between all three weapon slots; and I liked physically holding and holstering a greatsword/trident/katana/staff/polearm/daggers/etc.; because it made me feel quite genuinely like the "space ninja" we are so frequently marketed as being in this game

I liked being able to fight with melee in its own dedicated mode; and I liked my melee never being interrupted by shooting that results because I don't frequently keep hitting my melee bind.

I liked using my ranged weapons completely separately; and I ESPECIALLY LIKED actually, physically holstering my different weapons with an animation; instead of yet another asinine half-second energy-flicker effect as they teleport randomly back and forth off of me, in a game that is already riddled with eye fatigue.

I liked having quick melee and the convenience it brought to stealth and looting; and I liked quick melee being the only melee strike that would trigger while I was using my guns; because I have no desire to use both in horrendously janky synchronization, and I never will. AT. ANY. POINT.

I liked the fact that in the "bad" old system, I could control my own blasted block; and in particularly I LOVED that block was hold-and-release; instead of some asinine toggle that remains active until hit again.

I liked the utter absence of a condescending, hand-holding computer-block that gets itself stuck in a loop of trying to block Exploiter Orb's plasma bolts; keeping me from throwing the Thermia at her, or being able to fight any of her thousand, stupid little green Mite sons.

I f***ing LOVED the visceral satisfaction of using Exalted Melees on dozens, even hundreds of foes; and removing the override of my normal weapons by such awesome and mook-shredding mega-melees as Exalted Blade and Hysteria has removed the feeling of power that they gave me. It isn't half as metal to have claws made of pure energy and rip a Grineer's spine out with them when you can no longer directly wield melee weapons in their own dedicated mode; and even less so when I no longer have working color correction for the "berserker haze" of orange for the Hysteria aura. Literally every single time a hit connects with a foe when I use Hysteria, ever since Buried Debts launched, the color correction flickers out and goes back to normal rendering before resuming the orange. As you may have noticed, the Orb Vallis is overall a blue in color from all its ice, and now I'm developing epilepsy. There goes the most fun part of playing Valkyr; and in comes yet more eye fatigue.

I liked stances, and I liked using them only when I was in melee mode. It is not fun to go through the full Winding Claws combo of Swirling Tiger and strike an explosive barrel behind the loot barrel quick melee would have safely hit prior to Buried Debts; thus alerting the whole Grineer Vault when the stupid Regulators get damaged by that same barrel in a Spy node.

I liked pretty much all stances but Sundering Weave and Crossing Snakes, and I doubt that others' feelings were different. Rather than fix these two distinctly clumsy, useless, unimpressive, and slow stances; by giving them combos that actually flowed, and attacks with reach and forward momentum; melee mode was removed altogether, and so was manual block. Now the 98% of stances that were once perfectly good are janky; and even Wise Razor, which is very pretty, is devoid of appeal without the old RMB to pull off its combos, or a dedicated melee mode that lets me actually hold Revenant's cool Sentient great-katana in my hands indefinitely. 

I liked channeling. I genuinely did. It had cool energy effects, it was satisfying to watch foes dissolve into light after death, and its only real problems were its low damage-boost output and poor ability to maintain itself. Rather than change the mechanics to make channeling both satisfying and viable, it was instead removed altogether. Majorly uncool, and yet one more point taken off the "space ninja" aesthetic; to render us all just boring sci-fi gun dudes. I miss my glowing sword trail swirlies almost as much as I miss holding my melee weapons FOR REAL.

Speaking of channeling still, I liked when Life Strike still worked so even my squishy frames could maintain themselves; and I liked exploding my throwing melees, which I now can't do, and takes half the fun out of Glaive and Orvius since Buried Debts.

I liked ground slams that knocked down my foes so I could use finishers; instead of launching them uselessly sky-high to be shot at with guns, in one more example of the "improved" system's chauvinism toward ranged combat.

And more than anything, I liked the diversity in playing styles we used to have when we could use our guns and melees in isolation, instead of an ugly and forcibly-integrated tandem that you foisted upon us without option or alternative.

@[DE]Danielle, and at any other developerss actually willing to listen at Digital Extremes, please, please, please, PLEASE restore things as they were. Make what you've shoved into the game currently be the toggle in options, and since everyone who supports new melee has bragged to me about "finding it more fluid because they're advanced and real players", label that option "Advanced Melee". Find your fixes to the issues it currently has, and let the players who like this fused twitch-fest of passive-melee have it; as something that is turned on instead of the default state of melee combat.

But Lord have mercy, do not make this trainwreck the default state of melee in perpetuity. It is the polar opposite of streamlined and intuitive. It has twice the fiddling 2.0 did, and 1/20th the fun to use. Believe it or not, many of us were just fine and happy with melee; and only really wanted you to give Fang Prime, Pangolin Sword, etc. better stats.

Restore active melee mode, instead of making slicing and dicing a side garnish when it used to be more than a few of us' main mode of game-play and favorite thing in Waframe (especially mine). 

Restore controlled block, and make it hold-release instead of a toggle like the recent "hotfix" half-changed the still auto-triggering block into. We're Tenno, we can defend ourselves. It's not just annoying, it's insulting.

Restore normal RMB in combos, instead of rearranging them or changing their order to further shred and distort play that used to be fun. We want to aim glide while holding greatswords again. Parkour was enhanced by steering with my melee in the old system, not reduced.

Restore holstering, for the sake of sensitive eyes. That teleport-flash of weapons in and out of my hands from my back and hips is extremely infuriating already, and far too saturated and opaque in its energy detailing. If you're all so worried about player critiques that holstering and weapon swap is "slow", then just make the quick-swap inherent and remove mods like Soft Hands, Speed Holster, and Twitch altogether. Problem solved, and it would give just as virtually instant of weapon-switch, without the eye fatigue.

Make ground slams on non-Hammer/Heavy Blade weapons knock down foes again, and not launch them. I want to impale dudes lying on their back again.

More than anything, restore our faith that all of you that work so hard at DE haven't suddenly stopped putting thought into that hard work. 

Let us play the way we choose, instead of forcing us into a newly-prescribed and newly-narrowed set of unappealing controls. People can be Dante from Devil May Cry if they actually want to; but let those of us that are the real melee freaks and formerly used to use it almost exclusively for combat remain Knight Artorias and Executioner Smough in the style of how we play Warframe.

 

Back on the actual topic of this feedback thread, I stand by every word of what I said earlier here. This is a bad move mechanically, a narrowing of player's choice in playstyle, the autoblock is not only asinine but downright condescending ("look at you widdle tenno, let me give you a hand  with those enemies sweetie"), and quite frankly just not fun to use. I've got no interest in butchering the Wolf for his Sledge, because I'm no longer allowed to wield anything that's a melee weapon in earnest.

 

TL;DR: DE, If you remove the entire active-wielding mode of melee that people legitimately enjoyed in your attempt to "streamline" an aspect of the game, it's not streamlining. It's mutilation. There's no longer any illusion of impact when my frames strike something, because they don't hold their melee armaments in their hands except for in quick flickers after it magically teleports there in unsatisfying fashion. I miss drawing blades. I miss HOLDING them.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Traumatized is not the word. You saying to another player, word for word, that their post "Reeks of small d**k energy" simply struck me as extremely rude and immature.

I 100% meant that. 🙂

Did you even read that gangrenous post? It deserved no better answer.

And besides, the post or comment has nothing to do with you; and DE monitors the forums. As such, they don't need snitches to inform them. Explicitly tagging members in order to try and shame them is an offense in the forums. Consider your comment reported.

Edited by (PS4)LoisGordils

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Posted (edited)

God, please stop quoting that whole stupid post with the HUGE images and glowing text. That could have been summed up, with just the text, in about 5 lines. It just makes the whole page awful to read and does not help at all.

Edited by RazorCure
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Some melee combos require the Aim/RMB to be pressed, usually this is held down (atleast by me) this results in if you pause attacking you will aim your weapon, and if you have the melee attack on LMB toggled on, can be awkward having to press your melee key to go back.

So my suggestion is to have another toggle that disables the weapon aim functionality while using a melee weapon, and maybe make swapping to guns with the manual key faster if you still want the fast paced swapping. But even as is i would take slow swapping for this addition! The other option would be to have a "legacy" toggle where it would go back to how it was. (but with quick melee performing the weapon combos rather than the limited quick attacks of the past) Also its impossible to aim glide with the weapon in hand currently (meaning cant aim glide then smash attack with the LMB)

 

I think the best option would be have it is now, But also allow Hard swapping to melee (like previously) that would disable LMB/RMB swapping to the gun, essentially allowing the best of both worlds, have the quick flow when i want, and have the Pure melee when i want.

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Guys won't be just simple to have a new option that allows you to switch between the classic melee configuration and the new melee 3.0 ?

Something like

Activate Experimental Melee 3.0: ON / OFF

 

So every player can play the way he prefers. No harm done.

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53 minutes ago, Heidelgard said:

Guys won't be just simple to have a new option that allows you to switch between the classic melee configuration and the new melee 3.0 ?

Something like

Activate Experimental Melee 3.0: ON / OFF

 

So every player can play the way he prefers. No harm done.

Yea

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On 2019-03-13 at 7:29 AM, KieSeyHow said:

So many issues now with melee since update 24.4; all because the game was not broken, but simply had bad default keybinds and unlabelled keybind groupings in the UI.  Gliaves are USELESS now, because you cannot tap alternate fire for the glaive throw.  Now there is only only normal mellee (melee key) and charged throw (holding melee key), because no melee channel manual selection.  So, ALL such thrown weapons ruined.  Before the throw was a finely timed tap of the alternate-fire key, and now you have to hold the melee key for a clumsey timed throw only ... which completely ruins the style.

Before the dumbing-down of the game (likely for console gamers) you could select melee and block at will, glide, aim, block and attack ALL at the same time.  Now, much of what made Warframe melee unique is gone!  I cannot even use melee channel, because the key I used before for melee-channel was the left-mouse key, and right-mouse was for both mellee and quick-melee, which worked perfectly.  AIM should not be right-mouse, because you cannot aim, glide, block and attack (glide attack) all at once that way (well not anymore since the useless update).  Before you could bullet-jump, aim and glide towards mobs, while channeling, then slash attack as you passed by, all while blocking.  You fixed something that was NOT BROKEN, simply because of the faulty default keybinds (likely setup by some consoler and not a true PC gamer).  Aim, block, and glide, worked PERFECTLY if it was mapped to the left-Alt key (for right-handed), and still did not conflict with jump (usually spacebar for righties), so you could do amazing things in Warframe that no other game could ... sadly no longer the case.  Now the game has been ruined and dumbed-down, all because there was no sensible default keybinds and also confusing unmarked keybind-groups in the UI... 

What incompetence to ruin something merely to preserve an original mistake.  What manager had charge of this?  I can explain EXACTLY how to map the original game, and why, and prove it works perfectly.  I showed this to MANY others, usually after they noticed the moves I was doing and could not mimic them.  Even some veteran players agreed the new mappings were better once they were given the idea.  ALL agreed it was better, many subsequently kept using those mappings from thence onwards.  This is not acceptable DE; you guys ended up breaking the game by trying to fix the wrong thing.  WHY!?  Now it feels like completely different game having several capabilities ripped out for no good reason.

Speaking of spacebar, why is the hacking key, not simply whatever key the player has mapped for jump instead of hard-coded to spacebar?  Spacebar is pretty useless for left-handed players, it seems alf-way across the desk.  Also the ESC key, being used for "back."  Map the "back" key to alternate-fire, or right-click as well as ESC key, that way it is mappable and works for everyone.

I agree with most of your points, but for the love of Lotus, don't place blame on console players for the "dumbing down" they've done here.

Console players are suffering from the broken aspects of new-melee, too, after all!

Do you think we LIKE having manual block and melee-gliding disappear?

Do you think we appreciate having melee channel being FORCEFULLY BOUND to alt fire?

Hell no!

These and other changes are BAD for players on console, just as they're bad for players on PC.

We're all in this together, for both the good and the bad.

Please don't place blame on console players for the mistakes the devs make.

It isn't fair or right.

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5 hours ago, Heidelgard said:

Guys won't be just simple to have a new option that allows you to switch between the classic melee configuration and the new melee 3.0 ?

Something like

Activate Experimental Melee 3.0: ON / OFF

 

So every player can play the way he prefers. No harm done.

It would be nice. everyone happy and we get our melee again.

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No images or comments to anyone, then. The short, short version.

 

Bad:

It's awkward to use; there's no longer any illusion of physical impact; there's no ability to actually use and hold your weapon legitimately; we have no control over block; we have no holstering; no more cool poses with greatsword/dagger/etc. in Captura; it's just plain not a fun  or satisfying system to use; stances are broken; glaives are broken; glaive channeled affects are broken; we aren't allowed to channel anymore, making those effects and Life Strike/Killing Blow/etc. useless; the instant-teleport flicker of our energy color instead of the old holstering animation is just plain ugly, and yet one more thing in-game to cause eye fatigue; Exalted Melees are broken; Hysteria flickers EVERY time you hit something now; Exalted Melees no longer override my other weapons, and therefore Hysteria no longer feels like a real rampage; the same thing applies to Exalted Blade, and what was once a fun energy sword is now just more sprinkles on a cake reading, "GUN USE YOUR GUN ONLY, NO SWORDS ANYMORE" being shoved into my face; quick melee was actually highly convenient and its removal is possibly the worst alteration to game mechanics ever conceivably made to Warframe; half the stealth kill animations are now broken or misaligned; and ground slams have gone from a useful way to set enemies up for a finisher by knocking them down, into a Loony Tunes mess of a ragdoll that launches foes so sky-high and at bizarre angles in every direction, that it isn't any easier to shoot them before they land than it would be to slice them apart, and thus ground slam basically has no point at present.

 

Good:

-VFX are better, and the status indicator VFX on enemies match our energy now, like the elemental effects were patched into doing prior to Buried Debts.

-We can aim our ground slams, and the energy color of our weapon colors the cracks of the impact crater that temporarily appears with a slam.

 

DE works hard, but this entire "streamlining" managed the exact opposite; and made things less fun, other than the two positives listed above. Two accolades, accompanied by roughly twenty new problems and the removal of nearly everything that made melee fun, does not make for a good net change.

They literally could have just reprogrammed weapon swap/holster to be inherently three times faster; and removed the mods Twitch, Reflex Draw, Speed Holster, Soft Hands, etc. altogether, because what point do they really serve? They want to make combat faster, just make that fraction-of-a-second switch the natural state of the animations. 

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If they improved the weapon switch speeds across the board (which they absolutely should), they could change Speed Holster and Streamlined Form into global reload speed buffs. This would give them some actual practical use and would increase the variety of viable frame mod options.

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1 hour ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

No images or comments to anyone, then. The short, short version.

 

Bad:

It's awkward to use; there's no longer any illusion of physical impact; there's no ability to actually use and hold your weapon legitimately; we have no control over block; we have no holstering; no more cool poses with greatsword/dagger/etc. in Captura; it's just plain not a fun  or satisfying system to use; stances are broken; glaives are broken; glaive channeled affects are broken; we aren't allowed to channel anymore, making those effects and Life Strike/Killing Blow/etc. useless; the instant-teleport flicker of our energy color instead of the old holstering animation is just plain ugly, and yet one more thing in-game to cause eye fatigue; Exalted Melees are broken; Hysteria flickers EVERY time you hit something now; Exalted Melees no longer override my other weapons, and therefore Hysteria no longer feels like a real rampage; the same thing applies to Exalted Blade, and what was once a fun energy sword is now just more sprinkles on a cake reading, "GUN USE YOUR GUN ONLY, NO SWORDS ANYMORE" being shoved into my face; quick melee was actually highly convenient and its removal is possibly the worst alteration to game mechanics ever conceivably made to Warframe; half the stealth kill animations are now broken or misaligned; and ground slams have gone from a useful way to set enemies up for a finisher by knocking them down, into a Loony Tunes mess of a ragdoll that launches foes so sky-high and at bizarre angles in every direction, that it isn't any easier to shoot them before they land than it would be to slice them apart, and thus ground slam basically has no point at present.

 

Good:

-VFX are better, and the status indicator VFX on enemies match our energy now, like the elemental effects were patched into doing prior to Buried Debts.

-We can aim our ground slams, and the energy color of our weapon colors the cracks of the impact crater that temporarily appears with a slam.

 

DE works hard, but this entire "streamlining" managed the exact opposite; and made things less fun, other than the two positives listed above. Two accolades, accompanied by roughly twenty new problems and the removal of nearly everything that made melee fun, does not make for a good net change.

They literally could have just reprogrammed weapon swap/holster to be inherently three times faster; and removed the mods Twitch, Reflex Draw, Speed Holster, Soft Hands, etc. altogether, because what point do they really serve? They want to make combat faster, just make that fraction-of-a-second switch the natural state of the animations. 

This is the nail hit on the head! Upvote earned.

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Posted (edited)

You guys sure love to complain about a system that is not even done.  I happy DE ignoring you guys. The game would never improve or change otherwise. All I hope is they actually adjust stances like seismic palm to actually do damage in their waves, improve scythe stances, and a bunch of other stances,  and maybe bring back quick melee. Otherwise, I am looking forward to what they do,

 

Edit: I will say that I do not hate criticism of the game,  and I do find some of you guys complaints valid, especially with the way that system changes and are currently incomplete, but a complete reversal to a system that needed change, and the changes that are being made are actually a step in the right direction but a few hiccups?  Can't agree with it

Edited by (NSW)TeddyTalks

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1 hour ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

You guys sure love to complain about a system that is not even done.  I happy DE ignoring you guys. The game would never improve or change otherwise. All I hope is they actually adjust stances like seismic palm to actually do damage in their waves, improve scythe stances, and a bunch of other stances,  and maybe bring back quick melee. Otherwise, I am looking forward to what they do,

 

Edit: I will say that I do not hate criticism of the game,  and I do find some of you guys complaints valid, especially with the way that system changes and are currently incomplete, but a complete reversal to a system that needed change, and the changes that are being made are actually a step in the right direction but a few hiccups?  Can't agree with it

"Your opinions are wrong because I disagree with them."

"It's fine because I like it, stop complaining."

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18 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

"Your opinions are wrong because I disagree with them."

"It's fine because I like it, stop complaining."

Thank you @DeltaPangaea, it is really sad these type of comments.

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2 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

You guys sure love to complain about a system that is not even done.  I happy DE ignoring you guys. The game would never improve or change otherwise. All I hope is they actually adjust stances like seismic palm to actually do damage in their waves, improve scythe stances, and a bunch of other stances,  and maybe bring back quick melee. Otherwise, I am looking forward to what they do,

 

Edit: I will say that I do not hate criticism of the game,  and I do find some of you guys complaints valid, especially with the way that system changes and are currently incomplete, but a complete reversal to a system that needed change, and the changes that are being made are actually a step in the right direction but a few hiccups?  Can't agree with it

Calm down, Ted.

This is a feedback thread for this.

EVERYONE HERE knows that this is just the first part.

That's WHY we're here complaining; the complaints, if widespread enough, will indicate to the devs what isn't working, and will more than likely factor into the changes in later parts of the update.

We want this to be better, not worse, and the complaints highlighting the points of contention are an important part of that, not mindless hatred.

The best thing the devs could do for us, is give us an optional toggle for these changes.

Let the old guard stick with the tried and true methods/buttons that have worked for them for ages, and let the adventurous sorts play around with the new way.

Everyone wins, no one loses.

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Posted (edited)

If this guy can change his stance during a fight, why can't Waframes do the same in a mission? Makes no sense that they can't. Why are mods even tied to stances? That's the worse part. Not cool being stuck w/ only 3 measly combos in a mission. It's like breadcrumbs. And why wait until the end of a combo to start another combo?

 

Edited by Jinryusai
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I'd just like to counter all the negativity by saying I absolutely love the melee rework. I've actually started using melee weapons a lot more in actual combat since the release, whereas previously they were little more than can openers to me. Whatever issues it might have, the fundamental idea of getting rid of the dedicated weapon switch key and switching instantly with fire/melee buttons is fantastic and should stay no matter what. If anything, I'd love to see it extended to secondary weapons as well.

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