Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)GrandisSupernus]

After fully lambasting the whole system in the last post, I should clear up two things I really LIKE about the new system, giving it another spin last night. I knew there were some things, but I couldn't summon them to mind unless I was actually holding the controller or keyboard in my hands.

One: I really like the new slam attacks and slam attack animations. Yes, by not dropping straight down the momentum can carry me a little farther then I intended, but the speeded-up animation and slight redirect of the attack based on the camera positioning is welcome. ...Actually, come to think of it, I haven't tried it with Zephyr when I'm high up and directly above my enemy target as I can see on the mini-map, as turning the camera all the way down so I drop without momentum carrying me too far might steal some flow or even send me flying way farther than I meant to, hitting nothing... Um, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for right now, and do more testing.

Second, while I still don't want to be forced into the full complement of combos like I am right now, using Quick Melee strikes always felt like it was missing something when I couldn't do charged attacks. I always felt like not being able to use charge attacks with your regular melee was a missed opportunity because holding the melee button is still possible with a gun out but it never used to do anything. In fact, it felt strange that holding Square (I usually play on PS4) was only a regular attack, so strange that I would occasionally catch myself trying to do a charged attack without my melee weapon pulled all the way out. I still absolutely think you should roll back this change to melee where holstering your melee weapon switches to full combos, because your combos do not flow well and launch me all over the place in ways I do not intend. But when you do roll them back, make it so that heavy charged strikes are possible without fully-drawing-the-melee-weapon-by-holding-the-change-weapon-button.

I did think of one facet of change that might make these sudden changes a tiny bit more palatable. Instead of showing the melee weapon name and stance name below the combo multiplier counter, show the ammo and name of the last gun used. That way we aren't going to fire a gun and only discover it's the wrong one too late because the name was obscured by the melee weapon name (and you couldn't take the time to hit the change weapon button twice just to be sure a dozen times in one mission). I've seen a few different people complain about this in the thread here, so that might help them with that issue a bit.

[Maxim_M_Payne]

1 hour ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

They changed blockglide and melee combos and you guys acting like the game is broken.  It is absolutely irrational and quite frankly pathetic

This should be a matter of player choice. What part of "forcing people to play the single way that you think is fun because MUH DEVIL TRIGGER" do you not understand as a bad thing? To hell with rationality, think about democracy and variation for a change. 

I'm sorry to go off on you like this, but why even post in the thread if you have nothing to contribute but telling those with critiques to shut up and pretend we're having fun?

Edited March 23, 2019 by Maxim_M_Payne
Rephrased to be more polite, but seriously that attitude is arrogant and useless to have when others voice their issues with something.

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

Auto blocking seems to interrupt charge attacks making (for example) the heal of Sancti Magistar difficult to pull off

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by (XB1)Cotton Tail

[Kotei]

The only problems I've come across in it's current form is that the aim glide toggles you out of your melee weapon to the previous weapon you had equiped... I believe that the aim glide, or in this case the block glide shouldn't cause you to switch weapons. It would be much better to jump at an enemy and block glide towards them, especially when needing to clear farther gaps and such. In my opinion this hurts the fluenity of the parkor and new melee changes that are overall ideal. I'm also still partial to the original 1.0 melee charge attack, to where you can pick and choice when you want to release the charge. It would help increase the use of it, as you can predetermine it's execution. This might reqired looking at slide attack damage verses charge attack damage, as those might get left out if not properly balanced either way. The current melee channeling that is "going to be removed" per here say, is going to hurt fasion frame in my personal opinion. I think that a solution to this is that those effect remain on when your combo counter is active and deactive when it does. I'd still like to see a toggleable channeling, but if it's being removed atleast this way when you switch to your gun you can tell and visually keep track of when you need to use a melee attack to keep it going. That being the case attaching the current channeling effects to the combo counter duration seems ideal. This is all the ideas I have at the moment and will do further testing to see if other things present themselves. Keep up the extordinary work.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Kotei

[TeddyTalker]

1 hour ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

This should be a matter of player choice. What part of "forcing people to play the single way that you think is fun because MUH DEVIL TRIGGER" do you not understand as a bad thing? To hell with rationality, think about democracy and variation for a change. 

I'm sorry to go off on you like this, but why even post in the thread if you have nothing to contribute but telling those with critiques to shut up and pretend we're having fun?

I rather we have a better setup then the worst setup. At best,  they should implement a toggle so people can play the way they want, even if it is worse and dumb. 

[peterc3]

When was Melee ever not just an accessory for the guns and the frame?

[blazinvire]

Been having some 'What if' thoughts and felt some worth sharing.

What If:

• Return to Dedicated Melee as a Weapon-Switch mode.
• Melee Button does Light Attacks, Reload button does Heavy Attacks.
• Channeling used as 'Charge Attacks'; e.g. you hold down either attack button and that particular attack gets Channeled.
  • Glaives might need some 'Hold Melee then press Shoot' to Throw them or something.
• Right Click is still Block and AimGlide Block.
• Left Click is Quick Shoot, like Quick Melee when in Gun Mode, where you immediately put the gun away after you stop shooting.

And you know how in computer settings, you can adjust your 'Double-Click' interval time, is there something like that you can add as a setting in Options to fine-tune stuff like how long you have to hold the button for, before it registers as a Switch-to-Melee-Mode or Charge-Attack?

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

20 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

 

 

We just want to block. We just want to actually hold our melee weapons again, even if we also have our guns equipped. We just want channeling, Guardian Derision, and Life Strike back to normal; because despite what you think we ACTUALLY USED THEM and found them quite handy. 

 

Oh,god..was this a meme update? Cause I know a lot of those weird people say "No one uses channeling"..God,this is league all over again..

[Yasha-7HS]

Again, this is the problem with releasing it in phases rather than the whole thing together without even really asking the players their opinion, and just taking the dev stream hype as feedback. Was the design council even in on this? 

We're apparently supposed to get mid-air melee fighting as well, which makes it even more confusing for us not to be able to glide over to said in-air enemy while reducing damage on the way and not zooming in to someone who should be only a dozen or so meters from us.

Channeling is getting removed, so they apparently removed the ability for it to be a held button (which still makes actual negative sense to me if the idea of phases was to change all melees at once and test a small set of changes) yet changing how channeling works broke other weapons on its own as if they completely forgot an entire category of weapons existed.

Despite Excalibur existing as well as Reflex Guard long before, and the numerous threads that tell them auto-block sucks ass they still decided that should be the main way melee has survivability. 

 

None of this makes sense now, yet supposedly should with the rest of the changes but we don't even know exactly what they are. This entire update was two steps back with a half step forward (melee instant swap, yet no instant secondary-to-primary swap? Strange melee holstering when pressing the swap button to a different gun? Did there just need to be a way to view the holster animations that were made without considering melee was going to be changing again?) and the only people who can't see that are the people who never used their melees for anything more than to regenerate health, or maybe the people who see this as a buff for some frames that gained some extra functionality that should've been there in the first place (Excalibur can now actually just replace his melee weapon rather than being forced to choose to be in blade or actually playing the game).

 

Edit: The irony of Flow is that it broke the flow of combat for quite a number of people.

Edited March 24, 2019 by ShichiseitenYasha

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

17 hours ago, Snoit said:

Calm down. Nobody asks to roll back the changes. Players who prefer the melee just want to get the opportunity to play in a familiar way. For this it is not necessary to burn everything to the ground. Just add one or two options.

A little complex then that..How It was put in broke a few melee warframes...It is clear this was not fully tested...

[(PSN)Ahayah_My_Power]

I'm going to get straight to the point. I love the update, BUT.... Idk if I can deal with you guys taking blocking out of melee. I don't like that I can not glide with my melee weapon anymore, I can only glide with my primary or seconday weapon. It should have atleast been which ever weapon I used last, that weapon is active during the glide when I press L2 in the air. That way you don't have to take the blocking in the air melee effect entirely out of the game. Also I think it's better to have the hold triangle to either focus on your primary, secondary or melee individually. There are players like me who mainly use melee. And so well I might cut a bullet in half 🤣🤣🤣

But thank you so much. You guys are awesome, please change that. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by (PS4)Ahayah_My_Power

[am0rtized]

 

I've been playing with the rework for over two weeks, so I think that's time enough for a second feedback post.  While I am generally unhappy with how DE approached the update (removing options rather than replacing/improving them), the way aim gliding forces a switch away from melee is the only real deal breaker.  To be specific, melee Volt, my favorite build in the game, is functionally unplayable without unequipping both primary and secondary weapons. Hitting right mouse while jumping immediately drops a carried shield, which is deadly against high level enemies. In fact, carrying anything with a melee warframe has become a tedious chore.  Ironically, for these builds, the best way to achieve the "gun & blade flow" mentioned in the patch notes is to exclusively use either guns or blades.  

Between the melee update, the bug-turned-feature affecting arcanes, and the ever-growing number of annoying problems that never seem to get fixed (wouldn't it be great if waypoints worked properly?), my motivation to play the game is at an all-time low.  I realize that Warframe is a work-in-progress, and that changes to the core game mechanics are inevitable, however, this is the first time in a while I've felt like Warframe  might just not be for me.

[Snoit]

1 hour ago, am0rtized said:

 

I've been playing with the rework for over two weeks, so I think that's time enough for a second feedback post.  While I am generally unhappy with how DE approached the update (removing options rather than replacing/improving them), the way aim gliding forces a switch away from melee is the only real deal breaker.  To be specific, melee Volt, my favorite build in the game, is functionally unplayable without unequipping both primary and secondary weapons. Hitting right mouse while jumping immediately drops a carried shield, which is deadly against high level enemies. In fact, carrying anything with a melee warframe has become a tedious chore.  Ironically, for these builds, the best way to achieve the "gun & blade flow" mentioned in the patch notes is to exclusively use either guns or blades.  

Between the melee update, the bug-turned-feature affecting arcanes, and the ever-growing number of annoying problems that never seem to get fixed (wouldn't it be great if waypoints worked properly?), my motivation to play the game is at an all-time low.  I realize that Warframe is a work-in-progress, and that changes to the core game mechanics are inevitable, however, this is the first time in a while I've felt like Warframe  might just not be for me.

Same thing. Melee combat against high-level mobs is now almost impossible for me. People who do not understand this simply never used the melee of real.

[(XBOX)LV1NarcoticWOLF]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Foxtrot573 said:

Since melee channel is now a dedicated toggle, we need to add animations and/or sound cues and/or UI to better distinguish between the channeling state while warframes are in a stealthed state. 

True, but now you must remember to trun it off. No good when your pushing high level you need things to, how do I say this "FLOW". Use when you need it is best suited as you can limit channeling to slams and other things you may need it for. Channel auto blocking just eats your energy when your may not want it. 

[(XBOX)LV1NarcoticWOLF]

Its been five going 6 days cant play warframe due to this update. Please give some sort of Idea that we will get to do something about this issue. A playable to non playable game is not a small deal team..Note if I never noted in past 6 days all upgrade and sound are nice. Slamming reminds me of what you can do in Anthem but with less control. The big and main issue is this "LET BLADE AND GUN FLOW" sys for others an myself. It should of never affected movement and Melee gliding. Its important to know who tested this before it went out? We could of told you this early on really that well its something but A B tot Z will be an issue. Make option to do so before implementation recommended. folks like being bad azzes on this game not you look pathetic and unstable, and that just uncool going from limitless monsters. The people deserve a correction.

 

Hate forms but this issue got me going. Thank you for that as now ive found 3 investments to make me 30k in next 4 years. 

 

[SilviaS12]

5 hours ago, blazinvire said:

Been having some 'What if' thoughts and felt some worth sharing.

What If:

• Return to Dedicated Melee as a Weapon-Switch mode.
• Melee Button does Light Attacks, Reload button does Heavy Attacks.
• Channeling used as 'Charge Attacks'; e.g. you hold down either attack button and that particular attack gets Channeled.
  • Glaives might need some 'Hold Melee then press Shoot' to Throw them or something.
• Right Click is still Block and AimGlide Block.
• Left Click is Quick Shoot, like Quick Melee when in Gun Mode, where you immediately put the gun away after you stop shooting.

And you know how in computer settings, you can adjust your 'Double-Click' interval time, is there something like that you can add as a setting in Options to fine-tune stuff like how long you have to hold the button for, before it registers as a Switch-to-Melee-Mode or Charge-Attack?

If they add just and only the first one, I am ready to purchase my digital Tennocon package right now, I am ready to buy more platinum just to full out my melee arsenal and more than ready to purchase my next frame I've sights on, Ash KOGA. I am more than ready to campaign and share with all my peers looking for a game that they feel like it was a good investment. But I guess my dreams are just dreams as Nora calls us "dreamers",

[(XBOX)LV1NarcoticWOLF]

Ello, yes it is nothing but an extension to gun play that is unstable in use. We need resolution right now the the game is for some not all and that dose not work. Do you know that skill level of all here? Well ive been on 500 plus days with this game lived a second life here. Helped and warmly welcomed new folk and showed them what I see in this game and built an alliance and gave it away to those whom did. Though lacking in MR due to time given to others I have found this game to have a theme that others cant touch. I take what happens here very serious and dont what this game to go the way of ANTHEM or worst Destiny. This update has taking the magic out of this place and this move affects all of use whom spent over a 1000$ in this game helping them make this mess. So yeah, it feel personal and like a smack in the faces. The issue can be resolved with ease from the angle I see but the bug count will grow.    

[(XBOX)LV1NarcoticWOLF]

48 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

If they add just and only the first one, I am ready to purchase my digital Tennocon package right now, I am ready to buy more platinum just to full out my melee arsenal and more than ready to purchase my next frame I've sights on, Ash KOGA. I am more than ready to campaign and share with all my peers looking for a game that they feel like it was a good investment. But I guess my dreams are just dreams as Nora calls us "dreamers",

What if they charged to make the original fight stance available to all of us. Well, thats F'in slimy sad and dirty. It would be a scar for this company and if I invested in another company I make sure that be the first things to point out. But sadly, yes I would buy this package to avoid del this game off my XBOX. I would pay at this point so I can enjoy the new warframe and great content. thats how vary sad this is, but yes I would...

[Silescere]

Uhm... Maybe silly question, but... How does fighting the Stalker in CQC work now? When he wielded Hate, I always avoided blocking.
Do I now have to keep clicking the melee attack button while moving about, so I won't autoblock and get staggered?

[(XBOX)X F14KAP X]

On 2019-03-07 at 9:42 PM, LEANBOX_9V said:

I detest auto block with a passion as I already didn't like blocking because it looks ridiculous, if I'm in the air with a melee weapon it now FORCES me to glide if I am shot which is ridiculous, I can't block to glide when I WANT to and instead have to go back to a firearm, it's completely gotten rid of quick melee, it put melee channel on a horrid place on controller, I just can't stand it. Warframe is so much about looks to me and a plethora of other People I imagine and now I can't even feel like I look cool running around with a melee weapon because my Frame swings their arms around like crazy and it looks silly to me and ruins the way I like to play the game. Please for the love of god let us go back to the old way if we want to, or at least toggle auto block and maybe turn on manual because I am legitimately not wanting to play this Game anymore because of this. Everything else looks and feels good, it will take a bit to get used to but I do like that I can switch so fast and it makes me feel more powerful and so on, but I can't stand the auto block.

Bit rude lol, No is there a nice way to kill a human... No. A lie is  a lie and your right its affected the way we all love to play this game. I dont remember ever complaining or seeing that that controller where an issue to great to comprehend. So DE this phase is not the best and would of been better if this was I think its been said an OPTION for you fans and life blood of players. Everything else is great little hi tone on SLAMS and lots of other bugs now but besides MELEE being 80% destroyed for no reason all is a work of art. Can we get and im just repeating what more and more are saying now, a quick fix to this issue I would like to play the game again... Thank You. 

[7he_5oulforged]

I generally like the new fluent swap between melee and distance weapons. However there are 2 things that I find to disrupt my plays. It would be nice if these could be tweaked.

1. Please add some kind of "auto-resume" toggle for channeling. It sucks that it is not automatically up and running when I get energy after it was drained. That´s what I expect from a toggle. I can imagine that others might want to keep it as it is, so make it an additional option to please all styles.
2. Please make a "classic-melee" option (keeping the weapon switch button pressed longer, like before, would be perfect). I like to melee and would prefer if i can block at will. I don´t want to switch always back to ranged weapons just because i press the aim button. Also it more or less ruined [Guardian Derision].

Just this 2 little tweaks and it would be superb.

Edited March 24, 2019 by 7he_5oulforged

[Ulvra]

Since a lot of people seem eager to shout about the negativity and honestly I've gotten tired of responding individually to it with opposing points, I just want to add that I for one love the new melee system. Sure there's kinks in places, such as certain weapons which have unique mechanics (glaives, gunblades, etc.) that needs to be ironed out (Also seems there's some client side bugs, but I've not experienced these and have not been told enough to really tell) and it's only a half package as stances haven't been looked at yet, but all in all my experience was this: I went out and played the game, used the new system and I didn't even realise it was a thing. The transition was so smooth that I didn't realise until I was back in the hub that I'd been using it and had to go out again to try it out while actually paying attention and I was still happy with the result.

I only have (had) two gripes, one was melee aimgliding, which was made possible again by simply bringing melee only, which I do anyway if I intend to only use melee (might change now that certain new mods exist though), and that guardian derision is a bit awkward to use (though not impossible).

I'd personally change the latter to work on manual blocking if only melee weapon is equipped and let it work for auto-blocking only if you're carrying other weapons, I'd be happy then.

I also had a bug where my channel button defaulted to the wrong key and thus I lost the ability to channel, but going into the settings and changing it fixed it. Might need to be changed back-end though if it's defaulting incorrectly, I have heard a lot of others that had the same issue. There's also a few issues, like bugs regarding throwing the thermia during the exploiter fight or being switched to the wrong weapon after you close fractures, but that's tangentientally related issues that I'm sure will be fixed.

The most annoying bug I've had has been when you are carrying an item without a secondary, if you have a primary and aim glide you will drop it, which can lose you the item/datamass and thus mission. That's simply fixed by forcing melee aim glide if no secondary exists and item is carried.

As for the rest, some weapons might be a little awkward now, one example being the hirudo. I did use the quick melee to great extent and I now use ranged a bit more, but it doesn't stop me using the weapon. It's my choice to use it and if I didn't like it it'd be my choice to use different or change my stance, but I personally like capoeira. The stance revamp to come will change many things, but hopefully maintain the flavour. I would not want the hirudo for instance to no longer dance, because that's part of the fun and if I or others have issues with the forward motion breaking of the handstand animations, then simply pick a different weapon.

All in all, past all the negativity I've read and gotten tired of responding to: Great work so far, I'm looking even more forward to seeing the next phases after this first one has hit.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Ulvra

[MaxineRed]

To add my own two cents: I think the melee change is good. It has some bugs, that need to be ironed out, but all in all it's a good change

 

What I like about the change a lot: It actually makes me play more naturally with stances. As in, before the change I never used stances, just quick melee. I prefer the flow of a quick few strikes and then be ready to shoot in an instant, without having to press extra buttons.

 

That's what I actually got and I think is the reason why DE made the change. Now I can actually use great stances, like Tempo Royale and it makes sense to pick a proper stance. Before I just used quick melee 99.9% of the time and didn't even know what the stance does.

 

So big plus on that side. On the other. I do hear a lot of bugs related to melee 2.99997 and found some tangential ones myself. But with everything on PC, there will be bugs and DE tries to find the biggest, game breaking ones, on common setups. Don't forget that they are less than 200 people total, who make this very complex game, with unique mechanics everywhere.

I call myself lucky, as I haven't experienced too many of them. So my view might be biased, but I hope that stances get a little bit of polish in the next phase, so I can enjoy them even more.

 

All in all also great work on it so far and keep bug fixing!

[Mentat_Of_Dune]

After a lot of playing i gotta say, the experience now is way more immersive than it was before.

The fact that we can meele+ combining secondary/primary is awesome. I feel myself more able to not be only a meele player but a meele player  which can now rely on his fire power too when it comes to the right situation. This is way better for the overall experience, cause all the gameplay basically gained a lots of variants now compared to just meele.

I struggled at the beginning to channeling being  a toggle button, and even now i feel unsafe when im in need to channel to gain health back because of the new system, but the overall improvements way outweigh the new difficulties.

The only thing i would like to point out is, we really need to get rid of the 'spin to win' mechanic, now more than ever: seems a little weird\out of context the fact that now we can vary our gameplay and shooting/meeleing at the same time only to be constantly outclassed\deprived of enemies to kill by someone which uses macros and spins around the map the entire mission. Youre creating a brand new system where the ability to combine actions is a pleasure and is rewarded like it should be, let's please get rid for good of something that deprives a player which tries to be creative in favor of a 'press this all the time to win' system.

Thanks for your great work!!!

 

[(XBOX)X F14KAP X]

I Disagee with the last two post as they do understand the issue other's are having. If, I speak how they did I would say  let's please get rid of this new sys for good  and allow the true  player race to press forward. There are people whom payed a great amount  to this game to enjoy it. Now that they dont, what do you say to the face of these REAL people. I fear more an more the future, as people dont see the needs of people only companies and animals. You dont understand who your pleasing any more. DE has done a good job  design/ graphic wise and world build wise, but this MELEE set up is not working to the point meany cant play the game. I run high/ hard levels theres no time for not seeing where you going or gun gliding where you cant see. Spy missions are dont for cant do them now in melee or new sys mode. I would use melee to glide when you get to the spy area to hack. High missions got rage quite I try hard not to do that but I did as well. Time fezzes in survival. Bug are normal when you change data so now is it more important to clean up the bugs or make some kind of sys dual (play style) to help us out.

If I heard this it would be and issue and one that I cant have. I care not to side hard on it as you have people who like the new style so you cant and dont want to just re gut it. Now there is a host of people who plays one day spent REAL not pretend money and helped others grow in game, who now cant play due to this change. I can say the new sys sucks but wont and cant say just get rid of it. Now remember who are you appeasing when you talk DE or the people.  DE needs people to be happy and are not your boss its the other way around they need to know what we want and will PAY for in future. You all just stated cut your revenue by going a new way with no regard to real people issues. We need a solution DE soon as I cant play with this style installed. All i do is log in every other day to see when my Clan LOGO will be delivered that I promised the people.   DEEP MOON.

Edited March 24, 2019 by (XB1)X F14KAP X
full sentence error correction