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Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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The auto block function does not work at all.

It blocks when i dont want it too, such as in the middle of a stance combo, and when i do want it to block such as against knockdown abilities or the fishing line abilities (from scorpions and infested) it wont block.

Its very frustrating not being able to block on command, the result being stuck in an endless loop of being knocked down during stance combo's or stance combo's being cancelled by a block. It makes melee less fluid then it was before the introduction of phase 1.

What i do like is the seamless transition from gun to melee, and keeping the combo counter, i can close in on a group of enemies with my tombfinger kitgun, then as soon as i'm in melee range i can instantly switch to gram primes wide arc-swings.

On another note i think melee channelling needs a rework, ive hardly used it before phase 1, and im not using it after phase 1. I feel like the energy is better spent on warframe abilities, and the sacrifice of draining energy for more melee power doesnt feel very well balanced, channleing even more pointless if your using an exalted weapon.

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Posted (edited)

I hate to say it, but I give up. It seems DE does not care, I've tried to play enough and seen way more than enough feedback save for my own to know this is a bad update and it's not going in the right direction either finished or unfinished. For me I will have to cut my losses and uninstall because I don't see where there will even be a resolve even though it is possible for both sides of the fence (to auto block/switch weapon or not to auto block/switch weapon). I wish I were the only one who this affects and I can just leave and it doesn't matter, and I also wish I could say in confidence that I would eat my words, say thank you DE and apologize. However as far as I see it no response, hence no apologies.

 

Melee is dead, and Warframe will die with it.

 

Edited by SilviaS12
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I think this is a good first step towards a DmC-style combat style, which is the stated goal of the rework, but it still needs a few tweaks.

1. Blocking needs a dedicated button. There have already been many complaints about auto-block interrupting people's actions accidentally, so that's obvious. Also, just on a game feel level, it doesn't feel good to have to take your hand off the wheel in a fast-paced action game. Hopefully once the rework is finalised and channeling is replaced with whatever is coming next, the button mapping can be shifted around to make room for a block button again.

2. Persistent combo timer. Now that switching between guns and melee is actively encouraged, there should be a persistent timer showing how much longer we have to continue our current melee combo, and this timer should be visible even when using guns. This lets us know when we need to momentarily swap back to melee to continue our combo.

3. Rework button-mash combos for mobility. This one is to satisfy all the polearm quick melee enthusiasts. All stances, or at the very least one stance from every weapon class, should have their button-mash combo changed to one that doesn't interrupt player movement. This combo should also not have any multipliers, multi-hits or forced procs, just to offset the fact that this is the lowest commitment combo.

4. Predictable ragdolling on slam attacks. I think the directional slam attacks are pretty damn great. They look cool, feel cool, and most importantly, they could potentially help to balance short-ranged weapons by giving players a way to gap-close and engage on distant groups of enemies in a safe manner that CCs them to give you the opening advantage. However, the unpredictable nature of the ragdolling makes it difficult to follow up after initiating with a ground slam, be it with guns or melee. Ragdolls on slam attacks should be changed to be strictly vertical, or better yet maybe like a mini rhino stomp where they are comfortably suspended in the air for a specific duration. This will further fuel the DmC-style gameplay that the devs are aiming for and create a fun pattern of ground slam-cleanup-ground slam.

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  • Blocking: Like many others have suggested, manual blocking really needs to come back. Automatic blocking often interrupt the flow of combat, especially when I don't want to block. There are also mods, like Guardian Derision, that are affected by blocking which are annoying to use now. 
  • Aim Glide: This might just be me and my habit but being able to aim glide with a primary or secondary then suddenly being unable to aim glide after switching to melee doesn't feel consistent. Aim glide is often used to aim your primary and secondary but there are melee weapons, like the Glaive and Sigma & Octantis, that could benefit from this. 
  • Glaive: Currently, I can only throw the glaive in the air if I am using it with a secondary. If I am not using a secondary and is in melee mode, I can't throw the glaive in the air at all. I am not sure if it was like this before the rework because I have always used it with a secondary after dual wielding was added. 
  • Sigma & Octantis: The shield throw works but the slam attack doesn't. The only way to do a slam attack is to aim directly below like the old way which is a straight downward slam. 
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Ammo Mutation mods (including Carrier's Ammo Case) are significantly weaker in the new melee system.

Previously, putting Ammo Mutation mods in one's loadout resolves just about any ammo economy issue. In the worst case scenario of completely running out of ammo, one could resort to using quick melee while continuing to pick up ammo with Ammo Mutation.

Now, because of the new system, quick melee is not an option to substitute one's combat ability while Ammo Mutation does its magic. The moment one melees, the player now has their melee weapon equipped and Ammo Mutation mods stop working because the currently equipped item does not use ammo.

Suggestion: allow Ammo Mutation mods to pick up and mutate ammo into the correct ammo for whichever weapon has the least ammo (current ammo to ammo maximum ratio).

This would help alleviate the indirect nerf the new system results in.

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Posted (edited)

I must say im not really happy with the new melee changes the slam effects are nice and the fast swap is cool in theory too BUT, i miss the option of permanantly equiping a melee wappon and being able to use my fire button as melee button without shooting or aiming overall the fact that theres only quick swap now makes melee for me almost unusable and im also confused how im suposed do do the block combos now since i cant press my 2 mouse button or it will aim my gun. i would love it if you would add and option back to be able to manual swap to meele like before and staying there without shooting the gun.

Just haveing the option to choose between Permanent melee mode like before or the new fast flow its all i really want.

Edited by DarkSoulCatGirl

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Imagine that the current system has been in place for a year... now DE wants to put in a new system where you have to press F to swap between Primary and Secondary OR hold F to change to Melee.

When you are on your Primary or Secondary, the weapon stats like ammo/etc will be visible. When you have Melee selected, you can see your Combo Counter.

Would this be an improvement?

-----

I can kinda see what DE may be going with this... but we'll need more keybinds. This sort of thing would work with a controller device. PC... not so much [go look at how Monster Hunter World does PC keybinds for bowguns. Let's just say it's not "simple"]. Just letting us do things like keybinding 'SHIFT+E' or 'ALT+SHIFT+E' then splitting up functions between multiple keybinds.Or change all the combos to 'tap E', 'hold E' and 'press E'. And find some way to show the combo counter / weapon status.

Probably not too newbie-friendly? UI too cluttered?

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, SilviaS12 said:

I hate to say it, but I give up. It seems DE does not care, I've tried to play enough and seen way more than enough feedback save for my own to know this is a bad update and it's not going in the right direction either finished or unfinished. For me I will have to cut my losses and uninstall because I don't see where there will even be a resolve even though it is possible for both sides of the fence (to auto block/switch weapon or not to auto block/switch weapon). I wish I were the only one who this affects and I can just leave and it doesn't matter, and I also wish I could say in confidence that I would eat my words, say thank you DE and apologize. However as far as I see it no response, hence no apologies.

 

Melee is dead, and Warframe will die with it.

 

You're not alone, there are hundreds of displaced Tenno that are wondering WTF DE is doing and why they seemingly hired a team to sabotage their own game lmao. You're right that you can't internalize your frustration, you can only let it go. I'm willing to stick it out and see what they do with our feedback, when the next melee phase is released. If they ignore the veteran feedback and keep gunning for MUH DMC PLAYSTYLE, then cya later suckers.

Edited by Ofeban
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Can we have the melee system like the archwing where the controls schemes are differentiated for "Classic" and "Simplified". I'm really trying to like the new set-up, but frankly, i just do not like it at all. If feels clunkier and more hindering than the old one.

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There are some weapon groups that got shafted really badly by the whole "always stance combat" scenario. Sparring weapons are near unuseable with their breakdance moves now, at a ludicrously low range. 

There really should be a way to keep the old quick melee via some button combinations. 

 

Also, why in the name of hell are you so obsessed with ragdolls lately? The directional ground slam is one of the best things to happen to this game's melee system, only it sends the enemies flying away from you. What the #*!%. A gap closer that sends your targets farther away. WHY. It makes absolutely no sense. 

 

If yoy fix that, then this is gonna be one of the best changes to the game's combat system in recent years. Otherwise, it'll be another "almost but not quite" scenario.

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If you're trying to scan things but need to defend yourself, the new melee system un-equips your scanner (or any gear), making you have to re-equip it every time.  This is incredibly annoying.

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Melee phase 1 feedback:
It's great!
New slam is intuitive to use and looks good
Auto blocking knockdowns even during weapon swings is great.
I'm looking forward to the combo control rework, so styles that currently have long leaps in their default combo are less uncontrollable and you just play every weapon without having to consult a reference.

Annoying corner cases:
If you don't have a secondary weapon equipped and you are carrying the mobile defence datamass, you are basically locked out of using aim glide to extend jumps. Since if you press right mouse, you will switch to your primary weapon to glide and drop the datamass.

Minor tweaks I'd suggest:
Allow manual blocking when melee is equipped by using right mouse button. Most importantly so you don't drop items when gliding without a secondary weapon. You can still switch back to shooting with left mouse or reload.
The reload key should always switch back to your gun, even it it doesn't need to reload.

There seems to be no way to go immediately to blocking. Please allow for cancelling of your melee attack / combo into a block with right click. With the change above to allow for gliding with melee, this should be doable.
I thought the above changes might allow for cancelling of guns recovery time (by shooting, pressing melee, pressing block then pressing shoot) but it looks like already the switch to melee is delayed until the gun recoil is done.
Possibly disallow cancelling of the wind down of a weapon swing into block if there is some sort of balance problem with cancelling long weapon swings recovery.

Remove weapon speed from some animations. Namely Finishers and Slam attacks. I think a slower or faster weapon shouldn't adjust these animations. Since slow finishers look really weird, and locking players into the slam recovery feels bad when using it to traverse an area. Just pick a 'good' speed for each weapon for each of these and use that irregardless of weapon speed.

Slam attacks should not send enemies so high in the air. It takes a while to find them in a chaotic situation. Especially since your camera is looking down because you did a slam attack, so if enemies are sent flying they go off camera and you lose track of them. Possibly melee mods or arcanes could be used if players want to send enemies into orbit.

New related features:
If no melee weapon is equipped, allow a default weak unarmed punching weapon used to open boxes, silently breaking grineer security doors and using finishers on people.

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Please add an option to Quick Melee in the keybindings: quick attack with melee then automatically swaps back to other weapon. Quick Melee Swap is fine, but I think you need to add another option that allows Quick Melee Attack that automatically swaps back after attacking. Tigris Prime reloading has become less convenient without Quick Melee Attack.

- Chatframe

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Let us aim glide with our melee, without pulling our weapon out. Right now Valkyr is broken as she loses god mode if you aim.

 

Let the fire button switch us back to our guns. This would however interfere with those who use melee on LMB.

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16 hours ago, Asphe said:

Imagine that the current system has been in place for a year... now DE wants to put in a new system where you have to press F to swap between Primary and Secondary OR hold F to change to Melee.

When you are on your Primary or Secondary, the weapon stats like ammo/etc will be visible. When you have Melee selected, you can see your Combo Counter.

Would this be an improvement?

Yes, it would be an improvement. When my gun's out all the time, the syndicate meter (eg. sancti tigris, and this is the reason why I stuck with it even though the tigris prime exists) will always fill up, explode and reset normally; the gun will reload itself when empty even after I swing my sword (as mentioned 2 posts above); ammo mutation mods work (10 posts above); I'd be able to charge up and fire my Redeemer without my character deciding that they want to completely ignore my input commands and decide to block an incoming shot instead; and I'd no longer be stunlocked by my own Lesion (stance melee pretty much universally sucks, again because it decides to ignore the movement commands which I am giving to the character and start doing some kind of dance to either root my character in place, slow them down or send them flying off in some random direction).

About the only good thing with these melee changes is directional slam attacks, and even then I'm not massively enthused by it sending enemies drifting lazily up into the air. Every single other part of the changes has been a flat out nerf with no redeeming qualities.

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Posted (edited)
 

So after a few days of trying the new melee system, I had some thoughts.
1. I really really like the old system better
2. it's goes to take a lot of work to make the new melee system as nice as the old system for old and current players.
             You probably want the details so here we go. 99% of my problems is how the controls work and how they overlap with each other. Anyone who has upgraded from the old system and uses a melee focused frame, will more or less notice the issues around trying to use life strike to keep ones self alive.This is because of course that by default the channeling key is the same as the main fire key, which draws out your last selected gun/guns. This problem is further compounded by the fact that channeling is now a toggle, which means even if you rebind it, you will have to remember to click on and click off in the mild of a fight, which I have noticed is very hard and more often or not gets me killed.
        Now we can also talk about how blocking is handled as it does effect a few things. So in a nut shell the auto block function, removes the ability to use block for anything else including stance combos. I also noticed I couldn't glade without doing this weird ads thing with my guns, because not block key.
     In a nutshell this update feels more like a move by DE to draw people away from melee and more toward guns, which I can understand that to a point, but its to much.
Solution:
The easiest way to fix this would be to have a check box in the games options for old melee and new melee, so people could pick which one suits them.
The hard fix would be giving us an option for toggle channel or hold channel, allow use to pick which combos we want to use with our stance, and finding some way to glade without ads. Oh and more then likely go through all the mods in the game and make sure they are up to date with the new system.  

Other thoughts:
Having played this game for three years, it saddens me that this is the thing that would keep me from playing. I no longer feel right streaming it, or recommending it to others, as this feels to much like a step backwards.

                     Best of Wishes,
                             DB

Edited by DarkBazerker

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the great work on this melee update.  Overall, I'm loving it.  Here's my feedback:

  • LOVE — Being able to do melee combos or shoot on a dime, naturally, without switching "modes".
     
  • LOVE — The aimed slam attack feels so good.  I find myself doing slam attacks much more often now that I can aim them a bit, rather than needing enemies to be right under me already.
     
  • A bit frustrated by — Auto-Block. Often I'll be mid-melee (or at least mashing the melee button?) and instead of attacking, I'll block an attack and then sit there blocking for a bit while unable to do anything else.

    I notice this happening the most often with Grineer Heavy Gunner's fist slam attack.  If that attack hit me, it would knock me down, so blocking at least protects me a bit from damage, but basically makes me unable to act for about as long as getting knocked down would.  It doesn't feel like much of a gain. (also, I believe if I was doing a melee attack with "momentum" like the Broken Bull combo I would not be knocked down, so in that case blocking is definitely not what I want)

    I think it also feels worse because if a heavy gunner knocks me down, ouch, they did a bad thing, maybe I should do something to avoid that in the future.  But when my Warframe auto-blocks, it feels like I'm fighting against my own body.  I don't want to block, I want to attack.  If I decide that I don't want to attack because I'd rather not risk getting knocked down, please trust me to make that choice myself.

    The real issue here is my own auto-blocking incapacitating me.  If it was just an instantaneous parry and I could immediately keep attacking, that would probably feel much better.  Honestly, part of me is just like, "do we need blocking"?  But I'm guessing it's important to some players.  I wouldn't miss it if it were gone, though.
     
  • Hoping for — The ability to throw Glaives like in dual wield mode.  I'm guessing that's not at the top of anyone's priority list, but now that we can mix melee and shooting with any weapons, the lone benefit of dual-wield mode seems to be it's more responsive, better-feeling glaive throw.  Adding this to the normal melee so it could be used with dual pistols and primaries might lead to some fun possibilities and more glaive use.  Not a priority, but something I'm hoping to see down the road!
Edited by (PS4)Unstar

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I've uninstalled a while ago, and I'm not coming back.
These new changes are NOT for melee players, they're to make gun players better on all fronts whilst shafting melee players.

 

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I guess that if the developers care about us and our feedback, they will tell us something in the next live stream. There's so much negative feedback so sooner or later they will have to face this problem!

Otherwise I think we have to wait for the second phase of the melee update and hope for the best.

But still I don't get why not let us simply choose which melee configuration to use in game, because a simple in game option would do the trick and restore the happiness of the players who don't enjoy this new melee system.

I can understand that they want to force us to use this new melee system to make us beta test it and collect data and feedback, but I think now it's enough, there are pages of feedback and some players are sick of this messy melee combat.

 

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I made a topic about a little new blocking mechanic to survive relentless attacks or prevent punishment (Bombards rockets, shield lancers smacks, nullifiers proyectiles, etc) and i would love if you guys could take a look and give some feedback, this would benefit all of us since we could actually defend ourselves from enemy attacks that we have no humanely possible way to stop or prevent on these days, or attacks that are seriously annoying and as i said, we can't stop them, (Exactly... scorpions and ancients).

This would make the game a bit more focused on skill instead of "eat all the things enemies throw at you" so on that way we could have a chance to survive things that before we couldn't in a million years literally

 

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Man, I sure do love that zero response to the negative feedback in the devstream.

Love it. A bunch.

Mmmhm.

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the very fact they seem to gloss over concerns with the melee system rather than addressing it upfront during the dev stream, feels very disingenuous. It really feels like they're just being bullheaded in going ahead with this, rather than actually understanding player concerns and worries about the new melee system, and just how poorly it treats melee players who use melee first and guns second. It's almost insulting and honestly heartbreaking for those of us who used to play melee. It feels like they think they're being sly and mysterious and trying to surprise us with WOW factors like "oooooh look at this shiny thing" when it's mundane or even subpar so far, and just ISNT fun. We're not babies, and we're not animals, we're not the easily distracted. unless phase two is actually going to rock our socks off, which honestly with how phase one is going, i highly doubt it will, and they're just going to try and sweep all concerns under the rug... it would be nice to at least know they're actually looking at this and the concerns players have over the system and taking everything into account for a more fluid and proper reworking of the melee system, instead of trying to bullishly rush head long into something that could be a potential nightmare to fix

 

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6 minutes ago, MagnumKnight said:

the very fact they seem to gloss over concerns with the melee system rather than addressing it upfront during the dev stream, feels very disingenuous. It really feels like they're just being bullheaded in going ahead with this, rather than actually understanding player concerns and worries about the new melee system, and just how poorly it treats melee players who use melee first and guns second. It's almost insulting and honestly heartbreaking for those of us who used to play melee. It feels like they think they're being sly and mysterious and trying to surprise us with WOW factors like "oooooh look at this shiny thing" when it's mundane or even subpar so far, and just ISNT fun. We're not babies, and we're not animals, we're not the easily distracted. unless phase two is actually going to rock our socks off, which honestly with how phase one is going, i highly doubt it will, and they're just going to try and sweep all concerns under the rug... it would be nice to at least know they're actually looking at this and the concerns players have over the system and taking everything into account for a more fluid and proper reworking of the melee system, instead of trying to bullishly rush head long into something that could be a potential nightmare to fix

 

Another disturbing point to add, is the fact that we are all forced to change the way we play with melee, that we like it or not. Unfortunately, It's not like an option that we can choose, a feature to turn on or off. And this is disconcerting, because we are not all alike, every player wants the freedom to choose the way to play, that's why options and customization exist. But instead this update is more like "no I don't care of your preferences, now you will adapt to play like this and shut up".

I guess we have to wait and see what happens in the second phase, while having zero information.

I'm seriously worried.

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I have to agree with what people are saying.

Autoblock is inferior. I've given it a decent shot, and I can see where you were going with it, but it's just not as good.

 

My thoughts? X currently brings out guns to reload, so why not tie switching back to there and restore manual block?

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