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[DE]Danielle

Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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So far, no hope for quick melee... as they went back to highlight Wukong's preview of the new combo system example. Need more details, obviously... and need to play with new combos. I don't hold out hope for a fluid, non-rooting, continuous combo that lets you move entirely under your own control, without combo interference.

Ground slams staggering, instead of ragdolling enemies a mile away: Great.

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
Workshop post clarified the heavy slam attack requiring Alt-fire during melee to use combo counter.
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so the smaller the weapon the worse it is at blocking. In addition to the already huge disadvantage of lesser range they have. Where's the balance in that? People are already using large range weapons almost exclusively at this point.

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3 hours ago, supernils said:

so the smaller the weapon the worse it is at blocking. In addition to the already huge disadvantage of lesser range they have. Where's the balance in that? People are already using large range weapons almost exclusively at this point.

People are already using big large melee weapons to kill everything with maiming strike, i haven't see anyone using a screwdriver to kill something in this game...

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And they did say that range is getting significant improvements for most weapons that aren't whips and polearms, and the way Reach gives extra range will be more for weapons that aren't whips and polearms. So if anything they seem to be addressing how cancerous meme strike has been and why it happened in the first place.

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"RETURN OF MANUAL BLOCKING AND MELEE STATE 
Thanks to your feedback from Phase 1, manual blocking and a full Melee-only attack state have returned!"

This words filling by pleasure my heart.😀

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have not tried this yet, so I'm trying to remain optimistic but I do have a sincere concern about the loss of combo counter damage multiplier and possible range nerfs to large melee.

unless damage is getting an overall 3X buff (the current reasonable max for combo buff, you can get much higher with naramon, but that's a whole different thing, which is likely to need touching)... then enemy armor scaling is going to more or less make melee no longer a viable option to use in long arbitrations.  this is because arbitrations require melee nuking to really do anything after the 60 min mark for a pug, which will discourage pug play and only premades will have the option of going this long or longer due to enemy armor scaling.  

effectively it will kill this portion of the game from a pug standpoint which is currently one that I find more enjoyable as the vet with 5.7k+ hours.

once you get to about the 45 min mark enemy armor starts getting dumb to deal with and saryn is only so tanky and arb drones effectively mess up her spores to strip armor.  essentially this also kills frame choice, because with proper melee investment, all frames are viable for arbs right now... if they aren't after this, you'll know why.

this, on it's face, looks a lot like "sorry, get out" and forces everyone into using magus lockdown as the only viable alternative at that level, which is still very poor at armored units like grineer.

I felt the recent arbitration changes were all very good, but this just seems to revert it back to the old state where people are going to return to only playing certain ones again and if we learned anything from eidolons its that you don't want  to engineer a game mode with one clearly superior meta to force players into since it robs them of choice and the ability to play whatever frame they like... this may be on track to do the same thing (like how arbs before were just excav).  And to be honest... the recent arbitrations changes... that's the first time as a vet that I've felt "rewarded" for playing at my best and min/maxing my gear in a very very long time... like, since poe came out and raids were killed.

the whole point of the combo counter is that as enemies get tougher (ie, you are no longer one shotting them), you start dealing more damage comparatively (because they remain on the screen longer and thus your combo counter fills up quicker).  right now this system works for the player.  the future system, while I haven't tried it, seems to work against the player in these modes.  

the only viable solution I can see here is that armor scaling needs to be fixed hasta pronto to compensate for this, otherwise we're going to basically be forced out of these missions because while all the fancy new animations are nice and engaging, they are also time consuming which means less speed murder, and more exposure to enemy attacks that do significantly larger amounts of damage at higher levels.

the other major concern is that range to long weapons get a significant nerf.  right now this is the only thing that makes melee worth using, and further, it's the only thing that keeps saryn in check in that people can outdamage saryn with melee regardless of what frame they have if they invest in melee properly.  slight nerfs to long range and massive buffs to short would be ideal, but killing long range means saryn becomes mandatory for all arbs with any armor, and she's too squishy to go the distance, which will also call for even more saryn nerfs and eventually long arbs becoming a thing of the past.  since these are on a 1 hour cooldown, that effectively means If vets go to 45, we spend 15 minutes out of every hour twiddling our thumbs, which kind of sucks.

If my prediction is correct, arbitration will start seeing much less engagement and a lot of your endgame folk retention will start to suffer drastically (as this is the only place we really have to go to atm because there is no other content for us other than endurance runs in arbs) unless this armor scaling gets addressed nearly immediately.  Overall this seems to be, on it's face, a moderate buff to new players and a massive nerf to older players if it works the way I think it will.  I agree that closing the gap some is good, but this is at the cost of the only game mode we have to play which is limited to a 1 hour rotation (meaning if you do 20 min of it and leave, you now have 40 minutes before you can play again for anything meaningful) and that #feelsbadman.  

I understand kuva liches are meant to be a form of entertainment for long term players, but from the looks of it, there is a static pool of mr available, and once we get the weapons we want (and rest assured, we will tear through this at least 10x faster than the average player) and collect the mr, this becomes fundamentally dead content to us and doesn't have replay value because we will have already earned the available rewards that aren't tradeable for plat as there is no listed evergreen rewards mentioned to date associated with them (though I will say I am excited to get a 30+ level kohm with innate elemental on it... that's gonna be broke AF since kohm is already busted).

I understand the desired goal is better engagement, but if you want that, we NEED enemy scaling addressed like... with that patch to prevent massive salt storms, otherwise forecast looks very grim.

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The Skana shown in the stream had a damage of 120, unmodded. Currently it's 35 on the live server. That's nearly a 3.5x boost to base damage. If those numbers hold for the rest of the arsenal, with a few maybe getting more love than others (I want the Pangolin Sword to be usable so badly), then I'm not too concerned about losing the combo counter damage bonus.

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I don't know if anyone mentioned this or if this is already planned for implementation, but could we get some addition to the UI that shows our keyboard inputs as we are using melee? I feel like this would make it easier to control and transition combos and encourage players to use melee weapons more. Could we also get an option to show the scheme of melee combos on screen? I find myself constantly having to refer to the combo list by pressing escape and navigating through the menu whenever I want to use melee; it would be so much more convenient to see all the possible moves and their commands as I play, so I don't have to remember combos for each melee weapon I want to equip.

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I just wanna say to all the guys who stayed active in this thread and kept it going since march, you da real mvps.

kevin durant mvp GIF by NBA

I tried to keep up with it but I lost hope after a while and moved on to other things, seriously from a melee addict, thanks for keeping at it and letting our voices be heard.

My cheesy appreciation is over, now for the slightly salty part.
Thank you for listening DE, and for the love of god take what that first reply to the workshop thread with a pinch of salt, after all trying to merge melee and firearm combat in a scuffed way is what caused this problem 

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Phase 2 will be the death of Warframe. As a whole, melee is the most used weapon type in the game, and it has limited fall-off. This nerf is not only going to force people to reforma dozens of their weapons, but it will also kill the endurance run player base. This in my opinion is not a wise change.

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Extinction of the endurance runners who rely on exploiting broken mechanics? Voi kyynel. Good riddance.

Edited by vaarnaaarne

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Cephalon Bacon said:

Phase 2 will be the death of Warframe. As a whole, melee is the most used weapon type in the game, and it has limited fall-off. This nerf is not only going to force people to reforma dozens of their weapons, but it will also kill the endurance run player base. This in my opinion is not a wise change.

I'd rather have a functional effective nerf than a boring bland and uninspired power creep

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GUYS!!!! THE RETURN OF MELEE EQUIP AND MANUAL BLOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  OUR LIVES ARE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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On 2019-10-19 at 10:01 AM, Akura-archangel said:

"RETURN OF MANUAL BLOCKING AND MELEE STATE 
Thanks to your feedback from Phase 1, manual blocking and a full Melee-only attack state have returned!"

This words filling by pleasure my heart.😀

THE SOUND of these words make me feel like life is not that bad!!!!!!!!!

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21 hours ago, YourFriendlyNoggin said:

I just wanna say to all the guys who stayed active in this thread and kept it going since march, you da real mvps.

kevin durant mvp GIF by NBA

I tried to keep up with it but I lost hope after a while and moved on to other things, seriously from a melee addict, thanks for keeping at it and letting our voices be heard.

My cheesy appreciation is over, now for the slightly salty part.
Thank you for listening DE, and for the love of god take what that first reply to the workshop thread with a pinch of salt, after all trying to merge melee and firearm combat in a scuffed way is what caused this problem 

Thank you too, just glad to have a REAL melee system back, I do hope they plan to address the specific issues to frames and their play styles by players over time. was a long wait... DE BEAR is the Warframe Melee hero!  Bear that in mind LOL

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20 hours ago, (XB1)Cephalon Bacon said:

Phase 2 will be the death of Warframe. As a whole, melee is the most used weapon type in the game, and it has limited fall-off. This nerf is not only going to force people to reforma dozens of their weapons, but it will also kill the endurance run player base. This in my opinion is not a wise change.

Have you read through the entire list of the update?

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Quote

RETURN OF MANUAL BLOCKING AND MELEE STATE



Incredible !
Finally, I can reinstall and play Warframe again ! 😮

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I'd hold off on celebrating until we actually have a working thing in front of us.

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If manual block and bullet time block is coming back then thank you for the birthday gift DE, can't wait to return

Edited by Galataya

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On 2019-10-20 at 2:10 PM, (XB1)Cephalon Bacon said:

Phase 2 will be the death of Warframe. As a whole, melee is the most used weapon type in the game, and it has limited fall-off. This nerf is not only going to force people to reforma dozens of their weapons, but it will also kill the endurance run player base. This in my opinion is not a wise change.

What nerf? The reach rebalance? The status chance nerf maybe, but that system forced you into pretty much one build to be the strongest and deserved a nerf? Or did you maybe mean the bloodrush rebalance, it doesn't look explicitly weaker, just different scaling?

It was my opinion and many people here in this thread that the current quick attack system was the worst melee has been since before melee 2.0.

Also DE has repeatedly said that the game is not balanced around endurance runs( I remember them talking about it when they first ran survival as an event so it's nothing new), anything over level 100 is outside of the balancing focus basically.

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6 hours ago, SilviaS12 said:

Thank you too, just glad to have a REAL melee system back, I do hope they plan to address the specific issues to frames and their play styles by players over time. was a long wait... DE BEAR is the Warframe Melee hero!  Bear that in mind LOL

Yeah me too dude, me too, counting down the days until the update brings it in! 

 

DE BEAR bearing the weight of our complaints 

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7 hours ago, YourFriendlyNoggin said:

Yeah me too dude, me too, counting down the days until the update brings it in! 

 

DE BEAR bearing the weight of our complaints 

4

When is the date for new update?

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