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[DE]Danielle

Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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1. Please bring back the manual blocking. It feels better if I know that I blocked the attack and not that the game blocked it for me. If I play, I wanna play myself. Not let autopilot do it.

2. I get that the idea is to make combat more fluid etc. But channeling is just terrible now. Its really unwieldy to switch it in and out, especially if I use build that only needs to hit like 1 or 2 channeled attacks. Now it's really inconvenient.

Overall I would suggest approaching the problem from different angle. Combat can be made more fluid, if you give us more control of our warframes, not the other way around, like you did:

- Make melee attacks less rigid. If I want to move while attacking, do not make me stand in one place because of some attack in combo.

- Leave the original channeling and blocking mechanisms. They are both more convenient and feel better to use, when we actually have to do something to achieve something.

- Make quick melee less interrupting. How about something a la Left4Dead, where you can use quick melee button and it doesn't reset things like reload, but instead halts it where it was, and lets you continue it after the attack.

And the cherry on top for me, personally. I think you should really leave the melee in/out switch (when holding F button)... I think one of the important things it gives is just the cool factor. And cool factor is really important in a game about badass space ninjas with magic. The "let's get down to business" feeling when I holster my guns to lay my hand on the hilt on a sword... ready to obliterate my enemy with extreme prejudice... That's where Warframe shines! Or at least it did... Of course leaving this and the above options would make some of the mechanics more convenient too - Vaykor Sydon, Hysterical Assault, Rakta Dark Dagger. And I think leaving it the old way actually leaves more options for future development of new unusual melee weapons. If some kind of new mechanics were to be involved, I think controls would be easier the old way.

Aaaand the second cherry 🙂 - I think you should leave the option to hide elemental effects. The new ones are pretty, okay, but why remove functionality that works perfectly fine and some of the people are using it? I don't get the idea. The thing is, I like my weapons clean. And it's not clean, when I can't even see the blade of my Skiajiati, because it's all covered in elemental effects from corrosive damage. It's sparking lightning bolts and dripping acid in the same time, and it just looks bad... Maybe add an appearance option for weapons, to make us able to decide which elemental effects we would like to see on them? I really liked the lightning effects on my melee weapon, but I almost never use pure electricity damage. Same with heat.

If someone actually reads that, I thank you kindly.

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All claw stances are still broken - moving forward while performing any of the combos breaks the combos, getting rid of momentum and making combos look very weird. (If you just do the combos they work fine but if you're holding W as you're doing them they all look broken). Seems to be the case with all the claw stances as far as I've checked, might be the case for some other weapon types as well. 

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Posted (edited)

Its kinda sad that nowadays, to channel you need to hold the wheel button of the mouse then press E 😞 can i fix this in pc? Cause from what i recall, alt fire is the wheel button in the mouse and attack is E so u need to be a deadlock grandmaster italian to channel melee cos of the hands 😞 too bad im canadian.

Edited by Castlefrost
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Castlefrost said:

Its kinda sad that nowadays, to channel you need to hold the wheel button of the mouse then press E 😞 can i fix this in pc? Cause from what i recall, alt fire is the wheel button in the mouse and attack is E so u need to be a deadlock grandmaster italian to channel melee cos of the hands 😞 too bad im canadian.

Rebind the melee channel key to mouse's side buttons and toggle melee attacks with fire button to on

Well at least that's the bandaid for now

Edited by RadiAcid

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6 minutes ago, dragonseth07 said:

Why, though? Why does having weapons switched, with no animations, for you upset you guys so much? It makes things smoother and faster.

whilst the issue doesn't affect players like you before or after, there are quite a few factors why players like myself are impacted negatively, for one it takes away the realistic gameplay making it feel like an android game, before using melee with no switching animations was already there for players like you, quick melee. however using melee as main I prefer to have it equipped most of the time, auto block just simply doesn't work how I need or want it to, removing manual blocking was just taking away from one of the gameplay styles totally not adding to it, and with that being done, no more slide and glide with melee, always switches to guns, i don't always want to use guns.

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So, as Steve asked, I gave the new melee system some time to settle in before I leave feedback.

I fully expected to be forced to re-learn the way I fight when I went into the update but, suprisingly, it wasn't even requiered. The new system makes it so that you can do what you want to do, instantly! It's so intuitive that it feels like there are no bandwidth limitations from input (keyboard and mouse). It just feels like I'm doing it by thinking! I've spent a lot of time in the game and the fighting is second nature to me at this point, and this change just made it even more embedded into my reflexes.

There's just one thing I want to bring attention to because it hasn't been mentioned. Eversince melee 2.0, there were two kinds of melee aerial attacks: the ground slam and the directional attack (I guess you could call it). After being used, they both have a short pause in which you can't attack again for about a second. For the ground slam, it makes sense for it to be there, but I'm not sure about the directional. There is no reason why the controls would lock up for an entire second when you use a directional aerial attack. It cost me my life in missions many times because that's the only part of the melee fighting in this game that doesn't make sense to me. This gap in combat is even more noticable now that you've made everything streamlined.

Thank you, DE team! You made something awesome! 😄

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il y a 50 minutes, StormRyder007 a dit :

A last suggestion of my own is that now that we're able to aim our ground slams I believe spin attacks should also follow the camera. Currently if you spin attack while slide you will attack in the direction you're sliding, but I personally believe it would be better if the spin attack was aimed in the direction of the camera, and seeing as how ground slams now also do that, it makes sense. If others disagree with the idea maybe its just a me thing but I'd much prefer this. 

Isn't it already doing it ?

 

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Posted (edited)

I like the new visuals and fluidity between melee and ranged now, and am loving the directional melee slam. What I am not enjoying, the same as most other people apparently, is the fact that the former block button which is still essential for melee combo's takes you back to aiming with your gun. It's very disorienting and unneeded while doing melee, and also makes it much harder to use the new guided slam attacks when attempting to slow down in the air. I personally prefer the manual blocking but that's just a preference. The biggest thing that I would ask and even beg that you change is returning the option to turn OFF toggle channeling. The visual and audio effects for channeling are drowned out in the thick of things, and I can't keep track whether I left it on or not. Due to this, I either use up all my energy without realizing because I thought I turned it off, or die because I wasn't activating life strike when I thought channeling was on. Another problem that combines two of the above, is that once you swap to gun via aiming while either gliding in melee or doing a combo, your melee channel turns off and you have to switch it back on, giving more to keep track of. Returning the option for MANUAL channeling also does not effect the new system whatsoever as far as I can tell, please change this back.

One last thing unrelated to the new changes, but I've not been able to use void blast since the update, and my E key works fine otherwise like for melee. I asked around but haven't found anyone else with this issue though.

I just discovered that guardian shell under Vazarin is the culprit to the void blast problem. I turned that off and could void blast just fine. My guess is something in the new update is also interfering with guardian shell.

Thanks for your time DE.

Edited by Albrook
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I'm-a list a few things in the following format:

  1. Action.
  2. Expected result.
  3. Actual result.

They're not necessarily 100% melee-specific, but pretty sure they're caused by changes to weapon-switching brought by the update.

  1. Hold primary, do melee attack, pick up objective (datamass, energy cell, etc.), fire weapon.
  2. Secondary weapon is fired due to the presence of the carried objective item.
  3. Objective is dropped as the primary weapon fires.
  1. Pick up objective while wielding secondary weapon, drop (or use) the objective.
  2. Secondary weapon remains wielded as the objective is removed.
  3. Switches to primary weapon.
  1. Equip scanner (or other compatible gear item), enter archwing mode.
  2. Archwing mode is entered with the equipped gear item.
  3. Archwing mode is entered with the primary weapon.
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     The things I like about the new melee system:

a.) Some combos feel absolutely fantastic, like the tempo royale regular E combo, as well as the atlantis vulcan E combo.

b.) I like that combo attacks are now incorporated in regular combat, but there are some issues with it that I will specify later in this post.

c.) Some stances and certainly some weapons got the much needed love that they deserve. 

d.) Combination of the auto parry in regular gameplay.

e.) Directional slams.

     Some issues that I have and suggestions with rationale:

1.) Slide attacks and combos that launch foes halfway across the field. This really kills the immersion I have when I want to follow up with another melee attack or gunshot to the chest.

I suggest a less exaggerated "fly away" effect for even more combo fun and gun play mayhem.

2.) Some combos forcibly slash/ attack forward several meters away from the foe you want to slay. (Case in point is the decisive judgement stance aim combo in the nikana weapon)

I suggest a much, much shorter lunge attack. Doing this will help finish the enemy we want to kill and an increased likelihood of hitting the guy we want with the lunge attack.

3.) Some charge attacks are so slow compared to other weapon types. 2 handed vs. 1 handed etc.

I suggest a second look at weapon charge attack times. This may increase the usage of charge attacks in general, and may breathe new life into the Sancti Magistar.

4.) Channeling needs more visual/auditory cues. I have no idea when channeling is on/ off at times because my weapon is difficult to notice in the heat of battle.

I suggest some kind of pronounced sparks effect located at the back of your frame to easily notice if channeling is on or off. Any kind of visual cue that is easy to notice would be great here.

 

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Posted (edited)

"RMB is always aim" feels kinda odd... Disregarding how awkward it is to be (unintentionally) switching back to your gun mid combo string... Also not being able to block mid-air while aim gliding is kinda bad... 

 

TL:DR, please bring back manual blocking... (we want to choose when to block) 

Edited by T04STR
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Electromagnetic Shielding.
Vaykor Sydon.

Casualties of this update, that I will sorely miss.

I still want to be able to block, guys.
Is that so wrong?

Rebuilt my Rhino to couple with electromagnetic shielding.
...I've poured so many forma into him due to updates.

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Switching between shooting from a melee attack or aiming should function by holding the corresponding button. As it stands, if you click too early you will just end up having to click again and hoping that was the right timing making the whole thing feel clunky.

On that same note what happened to some of the animation cancelling that was talked about? Some weapons even with a primed fury can take a bit too long before you can use guns. It would feel even more fluid if you could cancel that a bit earlier.

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Posted (edited)

If you have a melee as your only equipped, you can manually block.

Unfortunately, this is still a bit buggy in a squad when you are not host, as I've found in mid-parkour that it may not want to unblock after - sometimes causing you to be unable to let go of your aimglide, or suddenly just spamming block on its own after landing while on the ground.

My friends have stated they have the same issue when they are not host.
https://streamable.com/t8006

Edited by Same
Had to fix wording.

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Honestly DE... I don't like it so far.

Due to a really wacky issue with my mouse, I can't even play now.
(It has programmable buttons.. but they don't do Held functions. Quick melee worked, switching to melee allowed the held functions on mouse keys.)

I'm up the creek on this one.
5 years strong miiiight just be over unless I buy new peripheries.

Progress happens, so be it.

This absolutely did not suit me, or make the game more enjoyable to me whatsoever.

Ditching block for an autoparry mechanic?
No one EVER used the autoparry mod.
DE ignored that mod The Entire Time, and now that mechanic is a Centerpiece to your mechanics?
Wtf gave you the impression that was... nevermind.
*Deep breath*

I've been long awaiting melee 3, so that aerial attacks don't have a janky delay on landing, so combos didn't lob you around like a fool... balance even..

Never in my years of playing, did I ever consider, ever hear from others, or ever assume that auto-parry was the future of, "a new style of melee."

Swing n' a miss on this update.
Not a fan.

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Im still trying to like it, but it feels like it's been added for players who want everything done for them. I didnt need an automated parry/block. Much as Im trying to enjoy it, it's just getting in the way of my playstyle. It feels like its gone backwards. You guys have always given us freedom, with movement and playstyle, and this takes some of that away. Block shouldnt only exist if you only have melee on you, that makes no sense at all. You shouldnt suddenly lose the ability to block because youre carrying 2 more things lol. I keep hoping my feedback will change, but that hotfix didn't do it.

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3 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

Im still trying to like it, but it feels like it's been added for players who want everything done for them. I didnt need an automated parry/block. Much as Im trying to enjoy it, it's just getting in the way of my playstyle. It feels like its gone backwards. You guys have always given us freedom, with movement and playstyle, and this takes some of that away. Block shouldnt only exist if you only have melee on you, that makes no sense at all. You shouldnt suddenly lose the ability to block because youre carrying 2 more things lol. I keep hoping my feedback will change, but that hotfix didn't do it.

Look that one over a moment. You couldn't block without a melee, before.

I agree with the part about feeling like it's removed some sense of agency in the fray.

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20 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Look that one over a moment. You couldn't block without a melee, before.

I agree with the part about feeling like it's removed some sense of agency in the fray.

You could switch to you melee by holding, and run around, and block, and whatever, then switch back to your guns. Now if you have guns, you cant do that regardless. Its stupid. It feels completely dumbed down.

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Initial thoughts on Melee 2.99 are as followed: VFX is great, almost everything else is utter trash. No, this is not the lack of being able to use Exodia Contagion because that doesn't do anything anymore until it gets noticed and fixed. It is literally a bad change to the game. 

First: Instant switching. This literally prevents Holster styles from working, meaning essentially wasted plat for a no longer available effect, and this ruins my next point, combos. Also, this makes the game extremely clunky to play. I have received a lot of thoughts from friends saying that they didn't know if they would be able to use melee anymore because of these changes.

Second: Combos are mostly ruined beyond existence. Anything that required block for combos (such as August Mesto from Tempo Royale) now requires you to hold right click, then spam melee. If you press right click after the first melee strike (like beforehand and how combo flows naturally), you will literally just switch to your primary secondary.

Third: Removal of manual block for auto block. One of my issues with this is not being able to block in captura without getting extra unwanted effects. If you don't block, you shouldn't receive damage resistance. This also removes countering in melee from existing anymore, which used to be when you channeled while blocking and another enemy meleed you, causing a finisher.

Fourth, and final for me here, are ground slams. This is my only positive thing other than VFX that Melee 2.9 changed. Even this however, comes with it's own painful sacrifice. Slams pre-24.4.0 were absolute garbage. They did near nothing (with some weapons having special effects) and were bad for damage. The new ground slams have directional, but the angle of which this occurs ruins air strikes normally for things like Exodia Contagion, even if it wasn't bugged and didn't work.

This update, while trying to add "Flow" to combat, has done the complete opposite, and a revert might be a good option. The Melee 2.0 system we had was very good, and was one of the more enjoyable parts of combat, and made new players enjoy the game because of it's flow. Thanks for taking the time to read this far, hopefully at the end of everything a perfect balance can be found.

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Posted (edited)

REPORTING HUGE PROBLEM ABOUT MELEE 3.0 PHASE 1:

Hi, I'm an Excalibur main. I play nearly all mission with Excalibur.

In this update, melee 3.0 phase 1, I can see there is huge combat flow improvement and potential. Like instant melee/gun change(Good for doing arbitration as an Excalibur, for no need to turn off EB), directional slam attack.

Those fx are cool, but they are QoF changes. Not as important as those action mechanics.

The huge problem tho...in an Excalibur main perspective.

Is the Glide/Block mechanic.

We always used to use our right mouse button to glide and block, but now, DE make right mouse button constantly as an range weapon aim button.

This is a direct nerf to us, Excalibur players, as we can no longer glide AND BLOCK with our Exalted blade.

It will be much better if we can still do blocking manually.

Problem No.1: Need manual blocking keybind back.

Secondly, channeling. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHY, DE is taking away the "Hold to channel" option, now I can only toggle channeling instead of hold to channel, and that is extremely annoying.

Problem No.2: Need Hold to channel keybind back.

DE know art. DE know how to build a game. DE don't know how to play a game.

 

Some suggestions that I believe will help Warframe to have a much better melee system.

1. I'm looking forward to future melee phases update. One of them is spamming melee attack IN THE AIR.

Like, imagine if Excal can spam sword waves in the air instead of only 1 swing, that will be so beautiful.

So, No.1, we need separate keybinds for "Slam attack" and "Air attack". And air attack should be able to be performed even facing downward.

2. Melee finisher keybind. We all know that that is annoying when we don't want to perform a melee finisher. It will be cool if melee finisher is optional and have a keybind.

3. Excalibur 3rd's augment. No one in the team can see the enemy is affected by the 300% finisher damage. There is no any mark to show that.

Need mark above enemies that affect by Excalibur 3rd's augment.

4. Bring back no cool down slide acceleration.

This can provide player the way to perform in air/a2g/g2a complex and speedy input and movement for melee action combo. Like, I use it as a small dash. If someone played GunZ will for sure understand what I'm talking about.

Bug report:

1. When insert data mass in MD mission while Exalted blade is on, after inserting, the frame hold gun and exalted blade at the same time.

2. After activate Exalted blade and press "switch weapons", it has an deactivate exalted blade animate, which I assume that it shouldn't be there.

 

Directional slam is awesome! And I do have an Devil May Cry dream in Warframe, DE, will it happen??

We have directional slam now, and we need 2 more things...or it will be disappointing if phase 1 is being called 2."9"already. For me, not even close to 2.5.

1. separate slam and air attack, and spamable air attack. Like, we can spam air attack while facing down.(Maybe just becuz we're just above the enemy in the air)

2. Melee attack that can drive enemy in the air with Controllable Physics. Such as mechanic in GunZ and DMC.

So that we can Drive enemy in the air>spam air attack>fire>spam air attack>fire>facing upward slash dash with holding glide key>fire>slam!

Edited by DkPoXeR
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Posted (edited)

I think it needs to be taken back to the drawing board... but it won't. 🤣

Edited by Redfeather75
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So I'm going to suppose that redoing the combos is next? Because most of them feel so incredibly clunky to use: Awkward Pauses, lack of mobility and bad transitions for going from one combo to another.  Just too many janky animations. 

Right now theres really no pace and fluidity when using melee combos.

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I've had a few problems with Exalted Blade since the update

Exalted Blade no longer triggers Growing Power before the update, Exalted Blade with the Chromatic Blade augment would proc growing power with with every hit, but as of now it doesn't proc growing power AT ALL, im not sure if this is intended but im hoping its just a bug

Arcane's are proc'ing at an unusually low rate with Exalted Blade equipped, for instance my exalted blade at 15% crit chance will crit numerous amounts of times during any given mission while Arcane Strike would proc about half the time i would crit, so the attack speed buff would constantly be up, but after the update Arcane Strike will only proc once or twice during a mission making it nearly useless with Exalted Blade.

 currently using 'regular' non exalted weapons seems to trigger arcane's and Growing Power properly while Exalted Blade seems to be bugged, i hope you guys fix this soon.

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On 2019-03-07 at 9:03 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

CHANNELING
Channeling is now a toggle set to your alt-fire button when in melee mode.

So why? Can you explain why you took away the option to bind channeling to any key and the press /hold option? Why are you limiting us to this specific setup? 

This setup seems to be built to have melee channeling waste energy. 

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