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Hildryn Feedback Megathread

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Additional note: Shield pillage requires LoS. Meaning that, if the target is just partially obscured, it will NOT pillage them. I find the entire ability a massive let-down, considering the ability movie shows this MASSIVE, SPRAWLING AOE ability, which is absolutely not true to how it functions at base. It makes sense for Haven to have LOS, but not Shield pillage. 

At least Hildryn is dummy thicc, so at least that comforts me a bit.But the rest of her (the parts that actually matter in-game) need serious buffs.

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The change to Aegis Storm is nice, but not useful and as I'll explain shortly, will be forgotten about in a few hours after release. You need Shields to survive AND cast abilities. Aegis Storm is a channeled drain, now dashing costs shields too? Why don't you change her from "The TechnoChick" frame to "The self-harming" frame instead? That's literally what she does. Nevermind Garuda being that frame, Hildyrn tops her in that department. Let's say dashing requires 25 energy.  You're draining 25 per second to channel, 25 to dash, and 100 per shot with Balefire. Hildryn has 1575 shields at max rank, meaning if you fire Balefire once a second, you have 10.75 seconds to remain in the air. That's not including any damage your shields take from ranged or environment.

 

As it stands right now, what I do is activate Aegis Storm to crowd control everything, then enter Operator mode to kill everything (No idea if this is intended or not, but at this point it's her only mobility/killing option when Aegis Storm is active), enter Warframe mode, dash to next area, repeat. You giving Aegis Storm a "dash" that costs shields does literally nothing because we have Operators who can, at minimum, void dash 3 times, for basically free since the energy used is tied to the Operator and not the Warframe.

 

Aegis Storm needs free mobility. Period. As it stands right now, there's literally no reason to even cast this ability with all the elevation differences, yet alone dash in it. If dashing costs anything higher than 0 shields per dash, I'll just stick to Tenno dashing, or simply not activating it at all.

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Posted (edited)

After a LOT OF TESTING and I am adding some things and changing others:

Balefire:

Chargin shot deals more or less double the damage of the quick shoot attack but costs 3 times the shield. Also, it locks you in a slowed mode that is absolutely unnecessary. I would make it mathematically correct and make it deal 3 times the damage for 3 times the shield usage, and remove the animation locking so that we can actually fluently use it in the fight while bullet jumping around. Also, make the charge time comparable, again, in the time you shoot 3 of them, you should be able to charge one heavy.

Shield Pillage:

Ok so, this ability is very nice but: 

1) needs to be able to be used in her 4.( EDIT: i realise this is highly improbable, this would make her 4 too easy to sustain, still wishful thinking )

2) The status clearing must happen as soon as it is deployed and not after the absorption, otherwise, it's less ideal with builds with a lot of duration.

3) It needs to be fixed so that it does not interact with emp aura and corrosive projection, having your team make your life-saving tool work worse just by being there is really bad.

4) Needs to do something against infested, otherwise, it's pretty useless and Hildryn becomes non-viable against Infested.

5) Make is just straight based on range and not LoS

6) Something must be done to equalize armor to shields. We get too little shields from grinnier compared to corpus

Haven:

Some minor fixes

1) Her shield restore is based on duration instead of STR for some reason... which is super weird.( super minor thing, just pointing it out )

2) Needs something more to be useful, as at high levels shields get depleted by a single enemy round ( sortie level I mean ) so I would put a 30/40% DR( fixed does not scale with mods ) on the shield you buff your allies with.

3) Add like 30% DR( fixed, does not scale with mods) to YOUR shields while using this ability. This will make this ability worth to cast on solo, and make hildryn better at high level, as even with her 2 her shields gets obliterated instantly EVEN with adaptation. 

Aegis Storm:

1) She moves too slowly, it would be nice if we could press the run key and move faster than how she moves now. ( this has been addressed by DE with the dodge, but it's still not ok if it costs shields )

2) The CC is very nice but the damage dealt is stupid low, pretty much useless, at this point just remove it it's not worth to have it if it contributes to how the ability is expensive.

3)The energy consumption is very high, which would be fine if not for the fact that we can't cast her 2 while using it. I can see how being able to spam it could make it too powerful, but this is an easy fix by making her 2 while using her 4 give less shield or something, like half? No clue, still the total inability to regen your shields while using her 4 makes it very underwhelming as you will have to be careful and deactivate her 4 soon enough or you will remain without shields and kill yourself. 

4) The fact that you can't cast your 2 is made even worse by the fact that you can't use normal weapons. You can only use your balefire ( which is not auto-equipped for some reason, leaving you there hovering without weapons), which consumes shields which you can't regenerate via Shield Pillage. It's completely counterintuitive. So Please let us use our weapons while using her 4. (And also arch-guns pls, you gave us this AMAZING arch-gun, let us use it with STYLE)

5) Cap the energy consumption per enemy. Let me explain, The ability consumes more and more shield based on how many enemies you are " elevating ". This is fine and makes sense, if not for the fact that it can happen that you press it in a " oh sh*t" moment to get that CC and all of your shields get obliterated in half a second because you have 30 enemies around you. What would be nice was if the shield draining capped at like 10 enemies, so that it still costs much more but the ludicrous situation where you die because you actually used her CC and it draned all your shields because there are 30 enemies around you won't happen. 

Passive:

The passive is nice, BUT it needs to make it so your health can't get lower while shields are up. Procs like slash and toxin at sortie levels remove around 300 or so health in 2/3 seconds, way faster than you can possibly notice and use the 2 ( see point 2 of shield pillage ) to clear the status, so it would be nice if these procs that pretty much makes all those nice shields useless would deal damage to shields instead of health ( until shields are depleted)

Final opinions:

Hildryn is an AMAZING frame. Her design and concept is fantastic. Her abilities look very cool and work nicely, but it feels like she was thought and tested only on starchart for level 40 content. Shields are inherently weak at sortie level where they are gone in an instant. Even using adaptation can't maintain them for too long, and as they are the actual fuel for our abilities that is even worse. The changes I pointed up will not make her actually more powerful in the sense that she is going to be super tanky ecc, those changes are meant to make her actually viable at high level( sortie level, not insane 160) without having to worry that " it's just more ideal to ignore the 1 and 3 and 4 and just spam her 2 hoping not to be killed by slash or toxin and simply kill enemies with a weapon" ignoring her whole concept of using shields as energy and just treating her as a lesser shield Inaros. 

Edited by Jeancly
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Posted (edited)

I only got Hildryn today, but here are a few things that leap out at me:

General:

I love the concept, finally a true shield based frame, and she's incredibly fun to play. But, having said that, she's deeply flawed as she is right now.

One change I'd like to see is an addition to her passives that prevents damage penetrating shields. She's supposed to stack shields, slash and toxin procs simply going straight through are going to kill her while her 4000+ shields sit there looking confused.

And that's if your shields haven't all been drained away by your own abilities. I get it, she's experimental, making someone's energy and shield pools one and the same. But if you're going to do that, you need to put some serious thought into making sure her sustainability is there. Right now it's fine for regular star chart stuff, but end game content is not somewhere Hildryn fares well right now.

Balefire:

Very nice ability, very fun, but needs some touching up. First up, don't change the physics or feel of it, I love me some ragdolls. But they need changes from both balance and QoL perspectives. As far as balance goes, why would I ever charge the shot? I'm not going to drain a large amount extra shield to deal a small amount extra damage. The charge shot needs to have a higher damage multiplier than cost multiplier, the cost you're paying for that charged shot is the time it takes, there's absolutely no need for an exorbitant shield cost, especially since this is going to be used on top of Aegis Storm and possibly Haven too.

QoL-wise, it requires an unbelievably dainty touch on the mouse to make a completely uncharged shot, so much as clicking the mouse button a bit too hard makes the game classify it as a charge shot, and slows me to walking pace. It needs to be made a bit more forgiving for run and gun play. Secondly, let us aim down while using Aegis Storm, it's frankly odd that you don't let us do this.

And here's the biggest QoL issue, this one is criminal, and it's the camera. Most guns, when held, give you a clear view past your frame at your crosshair and the enemy/object you're aiming at. The Balefire Charger is held in a different pose though, Hildryn holds it out to one side... blocking most of your view of your crosshair. This gets worse when you're flying, at which point your weapon almost perfectly blocks your whole target. If not for the fact that it's basically a grenade launcher you shoot beneath your opponent's feet, I'd never hit anything. Seriously DE, we need to see, this is something you need to fix yesterday.

Shield Pillage:

This one needs some serious work. It's a nice idea with poor execution. If you're against Corpus? Great! Grineer? Not so great, armour's numbers are lower than shields, you're frankly not getting good value from draining armour, there really needs to be a multiplier present here. And God help you if you're against Infested...

The unevenness of this ability spoils it badly, it's useless against a third of the enemies you fight, and mediocre against another third. Change it such that it's equally viable against anything, maybe just simplify it do deal damage and heal shields accordingly.

Also, we need to be able to use this during Aegis Storm.

Haven:

I scarcely even considered using Haven, simply because Hildryn is already incredibly starved for shields, your abilities drain away your shields so fast as is, I really don't have the luxury to be worrying about allied shields...

Perhaps give Hildryn herself damage reduction to her shields while this is active, based on her current armour (or maybe just a nice flat value).

I'd frankly also be happy to see the offensive part of this ability gone, along with the high cost. Perhaps something for an augment?

Aegis Storm:

Great fun, too expensive. The energy cost per enemy is far too high, meaning the capstone of Hildryn's arsenal is at its least useful when you're in the most difficult fights. If you could use Shield Pillage at the same time, perhaps the cost would be justified, but instead we're stuck with sky high shield costs with an occasional drip feed of energy orbs as compensation.

One of my thoughts is that any enemy killed by Balefire while affected by Aegis Storm automatically drops an energy orb. Another is simply to cap the energy cost relative to its base cost. Another is to simply reduce its costs by a significant margin.

Conclusion:

Hildryn is a great idea, and a very worthwhile experiment in frame design. But there's a reason shields aren't viable for tanking, and it's because they have no damage reduction. Simply giving a large pool is nice and all, but then we have the likes of Inaros getting over 8000 health and getting good damage reduction from armour on top of that and not having to spend that health on abilities. Meanwhile we're taking full damage from everything shot at us and taking damage from our own abilities, I thought self-harm was supposed to be Garuda's thing.

Edited by DarkFenix2k5
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Normally I wouldn't post or browse the forums, but I need to get this off my chest because (1) Hildryn is a great idea that flops in usage and (2) I paid 325 plat for a buff chic.

To start, I think Hildryn is a great frame in concept, and is fun enough to play solely for the novelty. She is pretty effective - played in Mot, sorties, and Thermia Fractures with good damage and no major survivability issues. However, she really frustrates me at times because her kit is so clunky: she lacks some synergy within her kit as well as with other Tenno. Thus, I want to complain about these issues and make several possible suggestions that would make her slightly more powerful but a lot more fun to use. Note: I do not have arcane barrier nor aegis, which I know help Hildryn a lot. However, I think they shouldn't be necessary for a frame to be usable much in the same way rivens are not necessary for an end-game Dread or Rubico Prime.

 

Shield/energy mechanics

Shield gating from her passive is great, and her shield/energy pool with maxed redirection is plenty enough. However for the love of God, please buff the energy orb to shield conversion rate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like its a 1 to 1 conversion meaning each energy orb regens only 0.7% of her 3555 shield capacity with redirection. Compare that to the 7% a 25 energy orb replenishes for a frame with 355 energy. Sure, she can regen shield instantly at a rate of about 193 shield/s (about 5.4% shield/s) after consuming an orb, but I feel this is still inadequate especially since ability casts and damage will negate the regen. I understand a passively regenerating energy pool in itself is very powerful but I want to stress that a Hildryn player must either pretend energy orbs don't do anything for her or find a hidey-hole for the next 5 seconds to replenish energy. What's wrong with retreating? Other caster frames like Saryn get the full benefit of energy orbs while still in combat. I could be spamming spores, dropping miasmas every 10 seconds, and molt every now and then and still even out if I collect enough energy orbs or spam spoiler dash. I would like a change similar to the following: either buff the conversion rate to 1 energy orb = 100-250 shield (2.8%-7%) or make energy orb's instantaneous regen work like arcane aegis (ex. 25 shield + uninterrupted 50 shield/s for 5 sec).

Energy siphon, spoiler dash, Trinity's EV, etc. do not work on Hildryn. My biggest gripe is that stuff that normally benefits a whole team means dogS#&$ for Hildryn. I understand that giving Hildryn too many effective ways to replenish energy/shields would make her too powerful, but she only has her passive regen, her 2, some sentinel mods, and shield pizzas to replenish her energy and life line: not enough compared to "normal" frames. When it comes to energy, Hildryn cannot really benefit from her teammates actions. She isn't a beneficiary of team work since a lot of things in the meta (more on it when discussing her 2nd ability) either don't do anything or actively hinder Hildryn's survivability. My suggestion is to make energy skills also affect shields, albiet with lower effectiveness on pure energy pools. If it's a 1 to 4, or even 1 to 1 conversion, I think I would appreciate a constant 0.7 shield regen from energy siphon or 100 shield from EV. At least they do something. On the contrary, I think it was a good decision to make spoiler dash not work on Hildryn, since it is an very powerful skill in the first place.

 

Balefire

Honestly I really like it. shield cost is alright, damage is decent, aoe is decent. I have two variations: a power strength build for over 40k raw damage, and a weaker range one with a 7.9m blast radius. It's a good exalted, but I really hate the soft "stagger" charge shots give you and inability to jump while firing/charging. It makes sense that a 50%+ charge will stagger you a bit, but why does a 5% one do it to? Too many times, I hold the trigger a millisecond too long and oops, I'm slow now. I think Balefire should count 20% up or something as a charge shot and anything below as the uncharged shot. That way, I would not accidentally release a 5% charge shot when I mean to spam a bunch of uncharged ones while evading bullets.

 

Shield Pillage

It's great against shields but S#&$ on armor. For comparison, my 2 at 41% pillaging was able to sap around ~2000 shield from a duo of crewmen. When I used 2 against same-level lancers, I got only ~1300 shield (sorry about the fudged numbers, but my point being the pillage difference is very noticeable). The issue with this is that the toughest enemies of the game are also the ones that give the least benefit with shield pillage. To make matters worse, Saryn is a popular frame, corrosive projection is such a widely used ability, and corrosive an ubiquitous element that hinder Hildryn's ability to restore shields since she take a percentage of current shield/armor as gain. Another issue that arises due to this mechanic is her inability to pillage effectively from lower level enemies (20-30), especially the Grineer. I find myself having to conserve my shields and change my play-style simply because I cannot keep up with the ability costs on top of the chip damage Hildryn takes. She's supposed to tank by regenerating her shields, so why is her most effective means so badly hindered?

I think a good change would be to make the shield gain to a fixed amount plus a percentage of the armor/shields - say a fixed 200 per enemy meaning with redirection and 200% power strength, it takes 9 enemies in line of sight regardless of level, armor/shield values to fully replenish shields. On top of the fixed value, Hildryn would take 30% of enemy's current shields on top of the fixed value. Thus, Shield Pillage's practical effectiveness is increased since you can run Hildryn without worry as much about corrosive projection and the likes. I admit my suggestion does not fix the Corpus/Grineer discrepancy, but I do believe it's enough to make her playable with 3 CP and not too powerful otherwise.

 

Haven

Against light units, it's fantastic CC that constantly staggers them (and often outright kills them in low levels). I used to think Haven solo is a wast but less enemies shooting at you and drain your shield is worth the extra drain through haven imo, especially against Grineer units. Against the Corpus, I face some issues with my high range + high strength: I sometimes destroy most or all the shields before I can pillage. Not too big of an issue.

The worst issue I have is against heavies like Heavy Gunners who are immune to the stagger. Even at level 30 they are the most dangerous units, hurting shields quite a lot (impact weapon, pls) while draining some 25 shield/s because Haven is connected to them. The fact that this ability is practically useless as damage avoidance against heavies makes me feel it is a bit lacking, especially since the team support part of it is also pretty meh with Tenno constantly jumping outside of Haven's range at higher difficulties. I'd suggest adding a chance for radiation proc (20%? 30%?) so that there is a possibility of CCing even heavy units.

Also, please nerf the static hum and target link sfx. They're too effective against my ears.

 

Aegis Storm

Powerful? Yes. For like 3 seconds. The mechanics that this ability use are nice, but it's waaaaaay too punishing to use in many situations. With a 5000+ shield pool, it still only takes me 10 seconds or so before I get into dangerously low shield levels, even less if I'm using Balefire or getting shot at from past my CC range. The energy orbs enemies drop don't really help either since... well yeah. As I said in my into, I do not have the arcanes so I don't enjoy the flight time Youtubers like Tactical Potato get in their Hildryn vids.

Since my main gripes deal with its energy efficiency (or the lack of) here are some suggestions:

  1. A popular one is to let Shield pillage be used while helicoptering. This will easily prolong Aegis Storm and make it turn from a S#&$ ultimate into a good one imo.

  2. Alternatively, reduce the effective drain/s. Eliminate Balefire's cost or at least discount it. Eliminate per enemy cost (seriously, the only time this hard CC is effective is also when it is the shortest lived).

 

Hildryn has potential as a great tank (especially with arcanes equiped) but she is seemingly medicore without them. In addition, she is quite clunky right now in multiple aspects which limit the fun factor. I'll likely store away Hildryn after I enjoy my honeymoon period because she does not offer any combat effectiveness that other frames can do better, sometimes much better.

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Really love the frame design and look, a lot of fun and some cool concepts. I love the combination with the Larkspur as well. I'll divvy up the feedback by ability as well although I think a lot of the previous posts have covered my thoughts, so my notes are just additive.

Balefire

  • The slow feels punishing after firing
  • The hitbox does seem have a few bugs, and there is a spark like effect which doesn't seem to do anything which maybe makes it feel more buggy than it is

Shield Pillage

  • I love this ability but having it work on LOS feels pretty bad. Even slight inclines in Fortuna and stairs in most levels seem to make it inconsistent to cast and that's sad.

Haven

  • I have used this a fair bit! The drain combined with the dual damage and support aspects of the ability make it a little punishing for the return it gives currently. I personally feel you could either remove the damage or the buffing part (preferably the damage) to reduce the drain. Alternatively you could up the damage and the buff to make it feel a bit more like the drain is worth it.

Aegis Storm

  • I love this ability, it feels cool!
  • The first bug I've encountered is some things seem to knock the enemies straight out of the CC and they just get back up and start firing at you. This happens quite a lot in groups.
  • The range shown doesn't seem to affect all enemies in it, not sure why. Perhaps terrain causing LOS issues?
  • Given we can only use Balefire in it then auto-equipping would be a really nice quality of life fix.

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Can we switch up the shield animation of Shield pillage(SP) and Haven

Since Haven has more up time compared to "SP", I think having the shoulder shield on Haven's activation look cool. And SP gets the Hip shields on activation.

So while in Aegis storrn and Haven active Hildryn would look like having 4 wings. 😄  

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Did 3h arbitration survival with her, solo vs infested and never had single issue i never died and extracted. So yeah... She needs some tweaking tho and her 1/4 is pretty much useless for me (her whole kit is bad/useless vs infested) , if i could use my guns in her 4 that would be cool af. Her look is 10/10 thats why i play her alot. There is also one very "special" build, which i dont use but is kinda broken. Overall great , original frame. With some tweaking could be much better/cooler frame with awesome gameplay. Atleast make her able to use her signature AW weapon while hovering that would be badass! 

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20 minutes ago, Benour said:

Did 3h arbitration survival with her, solo vs infested 

Huh, grats on surviving 3 hours of toxic ancients and mutalist ospreys. That's her big weakness. I did run into problems when forced to fight in tight crowded spaces with these enemy types, when doing kuva flood siphons.

24 minutes ago, Benour said:

Her look is 10/10 thats why i play her alot.

Same. This is my favourite looking warframe to date. I don't bother with any of her abilities, and she has this potential oneshot weakness, but I just like her aesthetic too much to not play her.

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Yeah solo the mob spawn is pretty low, so everytime i see toxin ospreys i just shoot them from far (priority targets). Rest of mobs you dont really care i just shoot them with catchmoon (got top tier riven) like twice to apply few status effect and mow them down with CO/maimer melee,  infested got no armor so they easy af to kill... And even toxin procs from lvl 280 couldnt insta kill me since i run vitality + primed vigor. So i have few seconds to react and use my 2 or even operator with 2x elevate... Problem with infested is hildryn whole kit is useless so you just run around and just shoot/melee (which im perfectly fine with) . Her kit has just no use, except dispelling some status. She needs defo some tweaking. But i still like her alot! Well i like every single frame haha. 

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Balefire needs to be a true AOE with real range. Must have much higher status. It raw damage could also get a buff at least the charged damage.

The above are for the "real" game. Starchart enemies are quickly getting old even for starters and too much frames suffer the inability of meeting true challange.

Her 3rd should get automatic refreshing radiation proc.

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Im not reading 13 pages, but anyone already mentioned that with the influx of umbral polarities the rise of umbrals and IMO the usage of Corrosive Projection rises?

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Posted (edited)

Shield Pillage is a bit wonky. It displays a huge aoe but that doesnt really indicate it's exact range. I've tried it in the Vallis and enemies that were far enough from me dont even get affected even though the energy wave passed through them while it expanded and retracted. Not to mention that LOS kills this ability. Rebecca alluded that shield pillage is similar to Mag's polarize so why is this LOS based when polarize is not? It also doesnt appear to work on enemies who run INTO the aoe after you cast it (at least from my experience).

I dont mind having to stop Aegis storm to 'refuel' my shields but i cant exactly refuel if the ability doesnt work sometimes. Also, Aegis storm describes giving Hildryn the power of 'atmospheric flight' but she falls into pits while 'flying'? 

EDIT: This is just a very minor detail i noticed. Her feet still look like she's stepping on solid ground when hovering. Shouldnt they be pointed down somewhat?

Edited by Johnprofit

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On 2019-03-09 at 11:05 AM, CerebrateJoe said:

**The largest problem is related to #4  I can't descend.  I figured out its related to crouch-toggle vs crouch-hold.  Hold-to-crouch descends just fine, but I don't use that.  I use a keyboard for movement and I use the crouch-toggle so I can't descend.

This topic has existed for almost a week now, and there have been several patches but none have addressed this.  DE, can we at least get an acknowledgement that you're aware of this and it will be fixed?

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Posted (edited)

I've been playing around with Hildryn for a couple of days, and I'll be really honest, at first I thought that this shield gating wouldn't work, but to my biggest surprise, it does!
Although she does indeed need a few tweaks, she feels really fresh and engaging, so good job on that.

Let's start with the passive:

Really good as is. Gives her that much needed safety window in case she runs out of shields. I would personally give it a little cooldown, because of a certain specific build that can make her totally invincible, although at the cost of not being able to cast any ability. Anything between 5 and 10 seconds sounds fair.

Now let's move on to her abilities:

Balefire

Teased as powerful and efficient, it sadly isn't.
The drain is way too much for the result we get. Yes, it deals damage, but it still doesn't make up for it. I would rather use any of my equiped weapons instead.
I'd suggest to reduce its drain, and speed up the charge rate.

Shield Pillage

Hildryn's bread and butter. We got it, she works around this ability. A well designed ability... that still needs some QoL tweaks.
It's good in open worlds, but in closed spaces, not so much. The ability is sometimes clunky if the enemies are at a different height level than you, and most often than not, the enemies in front of you already got killed by your teammates, which is why I think the LoS should go away. To balance this change, the other abilities' drain could be increased, and SP's range reduced.
Also, the casting animation, while being able to be cast mid-air, still takes too much time, leaving you vulnerable to enemies' incoming fire. I would suggest to either reduce its casting speed, make it a one handed cast ability or shortly stagger the affected enemies.

Haven

Overall, an amazing ability, that gives that well-rounded support touch to Hildryn's kit.
With the sugested change to her Shield Pillage, I'd recommend to slightly increase the drain.

Aegis Storm

The black sheep of the group. Feels really underwhelming and overall, not what is expected of an utilmate ability.
I'd start by adding a significant speed boost, since as of now it feels really slow, totally not how you'd imagine a jetpack, and the max ceiling should be adjusted in open worlds.
Let us use Shield Pillage during this ability. Needless to say that without being able to use Shield Pillage, our shields just vanish in a few seconds.
Tweak Balefire so it deals double the damage, and not be just a visual dual wielding. Leave the charge rate and drain as is, and drastically increase its explosion area.
Finally, same as Shield Pillage's bug, enemies at a different height level aren't affected by it.

Possible idea: let us use our weapons while using this ability?


Visual Feedback

Hildryn's Primary and Secondary color channels give a "washed out" effect to our colors, which isn't really aesthetically pleasing. The textures are pretty low quality (same problem as Mesa Prime when first released), this can easily be seen when using black colors. Also, some of her parts can't be colored at all.
 

Spoiler

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The Surator Syandana's Primary color channel darkens the color used, same problem for some parts of the Secondary color channel, turning bright white into grey.
 

Spoiler

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Edited by Hypodermique

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Posted (edited)
il y a 36 minutes, Hypodermique a dit :

Really good as is. Gives her that much needed safety window in case she runs out of shields. I would personally give it a little cooldown, because of a certain specific build that can make her totally invincible, although at the cost of not being able to cast any ability. Anything between 5 and 10 seconds sounds fair.

No such nerfs. Its 5K shield and so nothing against 60 lvl. I offered 1 second of invulnerability. But without the normal mechanics of the shield this warframe to be the bottom.

Edited by zhellon

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Posted (edited)

I really hope DE doesn't see the vids abusing the shield gate and goes "I guess she's good and people are happy with her".  😞
That build is dumb, RNG reliant, prevents her from using any ability and is clunky as all hell in a real scenario. It also doesn't solve any of her core issues.

The same thing happened with zephyr post prime when youtubers poplarized that stupid simulacrum interaction and swept her under the rug thanks to the temporary "popularity" it  has generated.

Edited by SSI_Seraph
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il y a 13 minutes, SSI_Seraph a dit :

I really hope DE doesn't see the vids abusing the shield gate and goes "I guess she's good and people are happy with her".  😞
That build is dumb, RNG reliant, prevents her from using any ability and is clunky as all hell in a real scenario. It also doesn't solve any of her core issues.

They did such a clumsy mechanic. Most likely they have nerf. As a result, another frame on the trash. But people do not care, they want more damage on the frame, which is still not be used.

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Posted (edited)

There will be a TL;DR section at the end of each point cuz I know some people won't read the text wall of a madman. Even if it is well thought out.

 

My first impressions of this frame weren't good. I maxed the levels and started to enjoy it, but still found it lacking. Here's my take away from passives and abilities to overall use.

 

PASSIVES:

 

Shield Wall: far as I can tell, this is fine. No issues for now.

TL;DR: its fine.

 

 

Shield Dash: I love the feel of it, but does it actually DO anything? The animation brings up shoulder shields, but I can't tell if it actually DOES anything. I was hoping it'd null the damage or mitigate some of it while doing so but all I can tell is that it's just a different animation for the roll.

TL;DR: does it help in any way?

 

 

Shield Energize: This is fine for the most part, the only issue I have is the amount of shields received for every energy orb. Based off of the abilities drain, we can assume that every 100 shield energy should equal 15 energy. This is based off of Ivara's Artemis Bow which cost 15 energy per arrow compared to Hildryn's Balefire Charger which costs 100 energy per shot. If every energy orb replenishes 25 energy for normal frames, I think that every energy orb should grant 170 (I'm rounding from 166.666.....7)

TL;DR: energy to shield usage and orb granting needs to be re-scaled

 

 

Upgrade: More or less fine, just wish energy granting buffs affected her.

TL;DR: wish she was affected by energy buffs

 

 

ABILITIES:

 

Balefire: like many, I think this needs a buff in it's 5% crit/1.5x multiplier/10% status and 500 base stats. I think it needs to come closer to something like Ivara's Artemis Bow which deals 1680 across 7 arrows (not modded) which has 25% crit, 2.0x multiplier, and 20% status base. Granted this is comparing a 1st ability to a Ultimate, but even Khora's Whipclaw, which scales off of the melee counter mind you, deals 300 with a 25% crit/2.0x multiplier/20% status base. Even Ash's Shuriken deals the same damage as Balefire does initially and is more useful.

 

And the slowed movement while firing/changing a projectile is absurd. Hell, just charging the projectile locks you to the ground unable to jump or anything to get a better vantage point. If we're gonna be slowed and made to feel like we're firing a heavy weapon, make it have the impact of a heavy weapon.

TL;DR: increase base damage, crit chance, multiplier, and status chances. And no movement restrictions while firing/charging.

 

 

Shield Pillage: this is a nice idea, but sorry to say, poorly executed. As others have stated, it should have a base given amount that adds with the shields and armor stolen. And just to make sure it scales, it should be a number, we'll use 100 as an example right now, for every enemy in the area, regardless of shields or armor as we want her useful against infested enemies as well. Additionally, scale that number by power strength and have a fixed percentage of MAX shields and armor while stripping away 25% of the enemies current armor, like a corrosive proc.

And please fix enemies not being affected by it and not giving you shields back. Just learned it was due to line of sight, and all I have to say to DE is this: Why? She's too dependent on this ability for it to be line of sight, get rid of it, please.

Also, allow for its casting while in her 4. I can't think of a solid reason for it not to be so. I can understand the argument of "We don't want someone doing it all mission" if there weren't already frames that did this.

TL;DR: needs to be reworked to allow for enemies with no shields/armor.

 

 

Haven: and here we come back to the Energy/Shield scaling issue I addressed in Shield Energize. Compared to Oberon's Renewal which is a 25 energy activation and a 2 energy per second drain plus 3 energy per target per second drain. We'll assume a full squad, plus pets so that'll be 23 energy per second compared to 250 initial cost and a 35 shields per second for the team and pets, plus 25 energy each for what we'll call 6 enemies in a 15 meter range (which is rather conservative number if you ask me) totaling out to 150 shields per second making this skill cost a whopping 185 shields per second. That's just not a sustainable buff like most others while also having to defend yourself, and it only damages enemies a small amount. Maybe add a debuff to enemies to make it useful against them.

TL;DR: rework shields cost and energy orb to shield gain and it'll pretty much solve itself. And add a debuff to enemies of some sort

 

 

Aegis Storm: love the idea, but its too slow and leaves you vulnerable. Add the dodge/roll to it without a energy cost unless the dodge/roll actually does something useful such as nulls or mitigates damage from those sides hit. Include the sprint function for it, this will solve the “too slow” problem in my opinion. Add a damage reduction value that is fixed because we are very much a big ol' slow flying target.

Increase the energy orb drop chance because I see nothing being dropped most of the time and add a targets affected have a higher chance to drop them on death function because most of the time the targets die too quickly from other sources of damage. Add synergy with Haven for the orb drop chance if needed, but the orbs just don't drop very often from affected targets.

TL;DR: additional movement capabilities such as sprint and roll, damage mitigation, increase orb drop chance and events, maybe add synergy with Haven to increase orb drop chance.

 

 

I really do enjoy the frame, but it is just lacking so much to make it a "sortie" frame which is my benchmark for all frames.

Edited by Sev1107

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Posted (edited)

This is an update from my initial impressions post that's somewhere around page 2 on this thread. I have played with Hildryn significantly more hours, stuffed in 2 more forma (not counting the ones that went into Balefire launchers).

This is the build I am currently running around with. 

Duration: 23%

Efficiency: 105%

Range: 175%

Strength: 236%

https://imgur.com/bj2UfO6

General impressions: Hildryn is a fantastic looking warframe that is decently fun to play however her abilities while mostly fun all have some serious shortcomings and could use some adjustments. She is in the medium-high power range against corpus and grineer with decent kill speed, but does not come close to specialized damage frames such as Mesa, Chroma, etc. She is decently tanky against these two factions so long as she is careful about using Shield Pillage. Against infested she is near useless and completely defenseless.

Passive: Hildryn should NOT be able to take any direct damage to her HP as long as she has shields. OR their first damage tick of bleed/toxin should be delayed to give the player time to cleanse.

Edit: some games with DOT's have a counterplay mechanic where the cumulative damage from the DOT is delayed until the last hit where it all applies at once. This would be very nice on Hildryn as it gives the player the time to notice the DOT and cleanse it but does not completely remove the threat of the DOT.

The shield gate is one of the stronger passives in warframe, assuming the player has unlocked the operator and is paying attention. The invincibility period is a massive get out of jail free card given that the player can just sit in operator mode until all of hildryn's shields regenerate. 

High level toxin/slash procs will destroy Hildryl with little chance for the player to cleanse the debuffs. Thankfully debuffs of the requisite strength are rare but incredibly annoying when they do appear as there is almost no counterplay available aside from spamming 2 and praying.

 

Dash: the dash is cool. That's about it. it would be nice if it had some special function. Example: dashing into an enemy should knock them to the ground which fits Hildryn's strong woman character.

 

Balefire Launchers: The arbitrary slow on charge is annoying and should not exist, base AOE radius OR projectile speed could use a small buff

Properly modded these wrist rockets will do plenty good damage against unarmored and shielded. The base AOE radius is too small and could use a 50% buff. The slow projectile speed makes it hard to land direct hits on targets further than 25-30m out forcing the player to rely on the AOE. Thankfully the nature of Hildryn's 2 and 4 push her towards building range anyways.

The arbitrary slow on charge is annoying and should not exist. The damage boost and massive increase to shield cost while channeling is seldom worth turning yourself into a sitting duck. I find the launchers to be far better when built for fire rate then spammed as fast as possible.

 

Shield Pillage: Too much of what makes Hildryn sortie 3 viable is loaded into this ability. The ability should restore a base amount of shields for each enemy hit + whatever is stripped from shields/armor so she is not completely impotent against infested or enemies she has fully stripped shields/armor from, or enemies that are too low level to have any significant amount of shield/armor.  Remove the LOS and elevation dependency. This ability will not hit anything slightly above Hildryn, or even slightly behind a wall despite remaining visible even if they are within the ability radius. The ability should be a one handed action as well. it needs to be cast very frequently at sortie levels, almost once per enemy group, often more and its current root + interrupt is very disruptive to gameplay flow. She is so, so dependent on this ability to stay alive that these inconsistencies cannot remain as is.

Hildryn's bread and butter. The extent of her dependence on this ability is frightening. Between the shield restore, the massive debuffs, the cleanse, far too much of her survivability is loaded into shield pillage. Quick to cast and relatively cheap (compared to her maximum shield pool). Because it is % based and spam castable, the armor and shield stripping capabilities are significant and this ability and this ability only is what pushes Hildryn out of "S#&$ tier warframe" into viability against sortie 3 tier enemies. Utterly useless against infested and leaves Hildryn incredibly vulnerable against that faction to the point she is unplayable as is.

Against sortie level enemies, I always spam cast this ability 3-5 times before shooting. It is annoying to do and slows down Hildryn's TTK enough that she is no competition for top tier frames like mesa or saryn, or even a solid melee build but completely necessary to keep Hildryn's damage output viable.

 

Haven: Allies should gain shields faster. Overshields gained by allies should decay slowly over time instead of instantly being lost when the link is lost. Drain per enemy is a punishment for using the ability and should be removed or replaced. 

Useless. Dependence on line of sight is an absurd requirement. Even if allies are standing still the shield regeneration is very slow and any overshields gained are lost the instant the link is broken. 

The drain/enemy is purely a punishment to the player for using the ability, being 5x the drain of linking to allies. HOWEVER, when used against light/medium units under lv 30, the ability becomes World on Fire with steroids (please buff Ember).

I recommend one of the following:

1. Remove the LoS dependency
    Double to triple the ally shield regeneration
    Confer the "no damage can bypass shields" buff to allies
    Completely remove the damage aspect of this ability
    Reduce the enemy drain to ~2x that of the ally drain
    Shift the shield/armor stripping aspect of shield pillage to Haven ticking at around once a second.

2. Remove LoS dependency
    Double to triple the ally shield regeneration
    Fire soft-tracking balefire rockets at enemies at 20% power of Hildryn's MODIFIED balefire launchers but ~3 shots/second. Make her into a missle tossing weight lifter.

 

Aegis Storm: Increase movement speed in this state by 2-3x. Remove the damage aspect of this ability. AOE hits everything within a radius of Hildryn; No elevation, no LOS dependency, no ring shrinking. Autoequip an EXALTED LARKSPUR regardless of whether or not the player has the larkspur equipped as their arch-weapon, Hildryn is completely immune to self damage while in Aegis Storm.

Near useless if used as intended in its current state. Turns Hildryn into a sitting duck. Cannot attack, cannot do damage, cannot restore shields, cannot strip armor/shields. Cannot hover off of the ground very high otherwise the loss of CC will destroy her if the enemies are even a little strong. Sometimes the thing cannot even hit enemies if they are on different elevations. Generation of energy orbs is next to useless due to the prevalence of Zenurik.

I have found the ability in its current form to be far more useful as a brief CC. Toggle on and off for a fast but unreliable AOE slam that hits most enemies within range (sometimes it misses a few for seemingly no good reason which can be fatal).

The "privilege" of toggling Haven while this ability is on is a bad joke given the completely useless/punishing nature of Haven without stacking another punishing shield drain ability on top of it.

The Larkspur was touted in Hildryn's initial reveal as being Hildryn's specialty. Then it became another general use arch gun. I recommend making the Larkspur Hildryn's again by making Hildryn the second frame to have 2 exalted weapons after Titania and giving her a specialized moddable EXALTED LARKSPUR.  Keep the current stats and the same ammo restriction as archguns but allow the player to use primary weapon mods instead of archwing mods.

P.S. The fact that the devs believe that allowing Hildryn to dash for an added shield drain is what is needed to fix this ability only displays their complete ignorance of what they have created and is an insult to any player who have used Hildryn for more than an hour. That S#&$ was not fun with the arbitrary cost on Exclaibur's exalted blade mini blind, it was not fun with Mesa's Waltz. Hampering mobility with additional cost on top of already expensive resource drain is never, ever going to be fun so STOP IT.

Edit: shield pillage should be a one handed action as well. it needs to be cast frequently at sortie levels, almost once per enemy group, often more and its current root + interrupt is very disruptive to gameplay flow.

Edited by ADirtyMonk
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10 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Huh, grats on surviving 3 hours of toxic ancients and mutalist ospreys. That's her big weakness. I did run into problems when forced to fight in tight crowded spaces with these enemy types, when doing kuva flood siphons.

Same. This is my favourite looking warframe to date. I don't bother with any of her abilities, and she has this potential oneshot weakness, but I just like her aesthetic too much to not play her.

I use rapid resilience on top of a ton of power strength and fast shield regen vs mass amounts of shields to hit overshields constantly, plus i use arcane aegis and barrier on top of that, with rapid resilience and adaptation I usually can clear it 80+ % of the time before it even damages me for any large amount of hp. Should give it a try.

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On 2019-03-12 at 9:04 AM, [DE]Helen said:

UPCOMING CHANGE

Hildryn will be able to dodge while in Aegis Storm by drawing power from her Shields.

I still don't see a point in Hildryn's 4 at all. Why exactly does a shield based/bodybuilder fly? Just doesn't seem to fit her theme. At least it's not what I think of when I think shield based bodybuilder. Also, Hildryn's 4th isn't very powerful at all. In fact, I don't even get the point in using it. 

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Quote
On 2019-03-12 at 11:04 AM, [DE]Helen said:

UPCOMING CHANGE

Hildryn will be able to dodge while in Aegis Storm by drawing power from her Shields.

 

 

I still fail to see any reason to use anything other than her three (Good CC, bad damage, Bad Range) and maybe her 2 (only within corpus missions). Her kit is so over the place and so mediocre that it leaves a lot to be desired. She's just so under-performing that it makes me scratch my head and wonder who did the numbers and thought some of this was "OK". I still have a decent enough time playing with her, but it's mainly because of how she looks and the gun-play the game already offers.

Why would you add an additional drain to her shields just to actually dodge and survive? She will have a massive energy drain from her below-average four already, plus a drain from enemies shooting her around corners or on stairs (because LOS screws you over if they are a touch above or below you, see posts about the Plains and Vallis), and then another drain just to use her mediocre, non-status/crit balefire weapons. Again, the only ability that is relatively decent (which is disputable and my opinion at best) is her 3, which can at-least give team-mates a shield and offer a stagger. Her 2 is situationally good, which is only for Corpus missions, which why would I take her, when I can take a frame like Mag and perform better?

People in this thread, much smarter than I could ever hope to be, have outlined practically what changes would need to occur to make Hildryn viable and fun to play against every faction, and at every part of the game. Why are we simply ignoring these posts?

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Thing that i noticed from hildryn : while in her aegis storm mode, i cant cast my 2.. is this intentional? cause from what i remember back on devstream 123, rebecca can cast hildryn's 2 when she showcasing hildryn's power in simulacrum.. i'm searching for answer and never saw anyone brought this up..

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Posted (edited)

Why I am getting feeling this frame, especially Shield Pillage is another nail to Mag's coffin? Shield Pillage basically does what Mag's Polarize do. I guess people forgot about Mag completely since everyone is saying "wonderful" but ignores what's truly visible.

Sorry, DE, but what I see on Shield Pillage is sheer laziness to think of unique 2nd ability for Hildryn, you're copying already existing ability to it's fullest, there's nothing unique about this ability besides it's visual effect, shameful.

Edited by CoreXCZ
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