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Hildryn Feedback Megathread

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This needs more attention, the LoS is keeping her from... Flying even higher up.

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Yes, these need to be fixed if DE intends for Hildryn to be played. Currently she is very fun but the elevation difference bug today prevented me to do the sorties in solo. Not being able to pilage shields from enemies that are a centimeter below or above you makes her kind of unplayable if you are alone. 

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First, thank you for such a cool concept frame.  Suggestions:

1.  Balefire:  Please get her fist out of the LOS of the target reticle.  I can't see what I am aiming at.  This ability should completely change with Aegis Storm active.  The rate of fire should double (because there are two), the damage should be lowered (say because power is diverted to thrusters), and it should be FREE to fire in this mode.  Because parity.  Just like Baruuk Serene Storm or Valkyrs claws or Mesas Peacemakers don't cost anything to fire when their ult is active.  The alternative might be to make these only come up in Aegis Storm and make them free to fire, like Peacemakers and completely change Hildryn's first ability to something else.

2.  Shield Pillage: This should be castable with Aegis Storm on.  Just like Barruk can continue to cast Lull and Desolate Hands to recharge his restraint meter with Serene Storm on.  Parity is good.

3. Haven:  The energy drain floor is too high 6.25 shield PER ENEMY.  At higher levels with a lot of mobs and with max range, this gets just ridiculous especially for the low damage it does.  Maybe this would be worth it if the damage ticks increased with Aegis Storm active.  And this is on top of the static drain the ability already costs.  Make the static drain slightly higher and the floor on the per mob drain should be more like .25-.5.  

4. Aegis Storm: This is super buggy right now.  Things that are not on the same level as you (like down even a small hill or staircase) are completely unaffected at the moment and this needs to be fixed.  Please, make the balefire just come up automatically when this is activated and make it free to fire.  The shield drain on this is equally ridiculous as Haven (and you can apply my suggestions above to this ability also).  However, it would be more manageable if we could use the balefire to knock down mobs (with no charge to fire) to manage the shield pool and how many enemies we had stacked up.  Also, please make it so the mobs don't drop to the ground and start moving when an energy orb is pulled out of them.  Again, make shield pillage castable in this form.  If you are worried this makes her basically invicible (even though I can think of about 5 other frames that essentially are), then change Aegis Storm to only slow enemies down like Nova's MP instead of levitating them like Bastille.

So, just to give an idea as to why I am making these suggestions.  Right now most the YouTubers are trying to leverage Hildryn's shield gating mechanism to make a tank.  That's fine.  Not my playstyle.  I made Hildyn a into a Valkyrie with high efficiency and max range and basically fly around with her 1, 3, and 4 active all the time.  While it is currently manageable at lower levels, when I play high-level content like ESO or basically anything with Infested in it, this build becomes unviable.  While I think every frame has its weaknesses and some builds work better than others, I feel like most of them are flexible enough where I could say "this isn't preferable here but it works and I think it is fun."  With Hildryn's current configuration, the build I describe simply won't work in higher level content, particularly with infested.  E.G.: Derelict survival? ESO/Arbitration with infested mobs? Forget about it... I feel like the suggestion I made above would make her serviceable with Aegis Storm in these situations.

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150 Toxic Ancient kill my 800 hp and 1200 armor, and I used adaptation and Ancient Healer. I can rid myself of the proсs, but I can not rid myself of the toxin and it breaks the whole gameplay, because I have nowhere to take supershield. Even if I create supershields, they will quickly go to skills or taking damage. At the moment Hildryn it's a bad Nezha to protect themselves and allies. No credit as tank.

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Posted (edited)

I feel like 80% of the criticism is coming from people who are only looking at the numbers and haven't tried her. 

She's extremely powerful. She's great against any faction, infested included. Her 1 is actually strong against the grineer as well. Built for corrosive and blast, she easily reach 70% status and one slot bombards up to level 80.

Have you guys been charging your shots? 

Her 4 deals with infested easily, especially considering 90% of the units are melee and she has a proximal AoE CC that renders them helpless. 

I don't know what people are talking about. Her haven isn't even too bad either. Have you guys tried building 175% efficiency? 

Edited by Xaxma
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All I really would want is a change to her LOS on her 2 and 4, because it makes those abilities super inconsistent. 

Her 4 is useless at the moment because it just doesn't work like it should, I noticed this immediately while leveling her in hydron. Same with her 2. If your tank ability itself can be rendered useless by a crate, barrel or gate, I'd really just be better off using something with more consistency. 

Even her 3 has issues with line of sight. I have literally had a few inches of a height difference from an ally a few feet away from me and it broke my ability off. 

So basically it either needs to be adjusted, or removed entirely, because at the moment it just makes her super inconsistent at what she does. 

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Posted (edited)
il y a 37 minutes, Xaxma a dit :

I feel like 80% of the criticism is coming from people who are only looking at the numbers and haven't tried her. 

She's extremely powerful. She's great against any faction, infested included. Her 1 is actually strong against the grineer as well. Built for corrosive and blast, she easily reach 70% status and one slot bombards up to level 80.

No, she's not. If you want a good jack of all trades warframe, you take Nezha who is faaaaaar away better in CC, Tanking, support  etc. And if you miss your Balefire, well just take a staticor.  She does nothing better than another warframe .  Only the Shield mechanic is interesting. So tell us, how she's extremely powerful ?  What does she bring to the table via her skills ?

 

And how the hell is she good against infested ?

 

At least remove line of sight on her 2 and 3 and remove effect on ennemies on the 3 too, it's completely useless and pump all your shields.... Make the 2 to work on infested too.. And fix the 4, the CC is completely broken atm.  Maybe then we will have an average warframe.

Edited by Svidar
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Posted (edited)
il y a 42 minutes, Xaxma a dit :

Have you guys been charging your shots? 

A fully charged shot= 450 shields at base and 2 sec charge for +100% damage.

No we did try her. At least enough to know that quickspamming shots is more effcient, does more damage per sec and doesn't prevent you from bullet jumping. Reason why everyone is saying charging shots is worthless.

il y a 42 minutes, Xaxma a dit :

I don't know what people are talking about. Her haven isn't even too bad either

They didn't say it's bad. they said the damage componant is worthless and amps the drain for no reason

il y a 42 minutes, Xaxma a dit :

She's great against any faction, infested included

Her pillage aka her main source of shields if haven or aegis is active does nothing against infested. If you play her optimaly and have haven active to protect your allies ( or else just bring another frame because it's her main selling point as a buffer), you'd run out of shields real fast and be a sitting duck for their toxin auras.

 

Edited by SSI_Seraph
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4 minutes ago, SSI_Seraph said:

A fully charged shot= 450 shields at base and 2 sec charge for +100% damage.

No we did try her. At least enough to know that quickspamming shots is more effcient, does more damage per sec and doesn't prevent you from bullet jumping. Reason why everyone is saying charging shots is worthless.

They didn't say it's bad. they said the damage componant is worthless and amps the drain for no reason

Her pillage aka her main source of shields if haven or aegis is active does nothing against infested. If you play her optimaly and have haven active to protect your allies ( or else just bring another frame because it's her main selling point as a buffer), you'd run out of shields real fast and be a sitting duck for their toxin auras.

 

I have to admit if Chromas range was buffed on his 2 and 3 it would make hildryn obsolete. Gara can also spam 90% damage reduction. And Nezha is just a beast in general. Yeah now that I've seen the feedback the hype has worn down for me, it's a shame because she's amazing looking. 

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Hildra’s shield gating can use a few extra mechanics. The Elite Orb Valis enemies can tank status procs as they keep instantly charging their shields. While we do have the mod adaptation it helps to give this character more survivability behind with the shielding and low health. 

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Posted (edited)

Could we get a HUD icon for when allies are under Haven?  Plus a number on the icon shown next to the player for how many enemies are linked?  It'd be helpful to get an idea of the drain I'm under and if it's an okay time to drop the ability and regen shields.

From what I've seen in the comments, I'm not in the majority in that I like that her blueprint is locked behind a high faction rank requirement.  For most frames, shields are worse than health or armor.  There's almost nothing in game that tells a new player that, and the fact shields regenerate makes them look appealing.  Valkyr was a great learning moment for me, getting me to look into why this frame with very little shields still has high survivability.  Having a frame that wants to use shields unlock early on one of the earliest planets would just reinforce using shields.  Putting it behind the faction wall gives a chance that players will use Valkyr, Nidus, or Inaros first; and hopefully realize Hildryn's an outlier.

Edited by ScoutInTheNight
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Again LoS is a issue, a major one.

There are bugs where you get stuck unable to act in her 4.

Her 2 i wish could be used while her 4 was active.

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I would actually like to see her 2 and 3 functionality merged. Haven should protect friendly targets and drain enemy targets.

Her 2 should be a damaging AOE, dealing damage based on shield/armor values of the enemies to themselves.

Meanwhile I'd like to see the radius of 4 get a slight increase.

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My feedback on Hildryn:

I feel the Shield Gate mechanic should be applied system wide: enemies, objectives, specters, companions, Sentinels, etcetera

I also feel Hildryn could use a better reliance on her Shields for scaling her abilities, similar to how Valkyr's Paralysis converts current Shield value to damage.

To save me from retyping:

With the change to her Abilities doing damage on current Shield value while draining same Shield or (Capacitor) value it would have diminishing damage over-time as the balance trade-off for Shield management.

Passive would make more sense with above change as Shield Matrix Capacitor 

I would leave Shield Pillage as not being able to be cast while Aegis Storm is active. Only because Aegis Storm does lock enemies down in place and thus hinders the speed of progression (gameplay) which can be troll-worthy. 

I have resorted to only using Aegis Storm to baby-guard Index goal and kill with Operator as Hildryn floats there holding trespassers in suspended animation.

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The collection does not stay you also need an archgun deployer to use the gun, but it includes the gravmag, please remove the archgun deployer's Tier 5 Solaris United requirement, and make it buyable. Honestly it should have been included in the collection.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)VigilanteKiller said:

The collection does not stay you also need an archgun deployer to use the gun, but it includes the gravmag, please remove the archgun deployer's Tier 5 Solaris United requirement, and make it buyable. Honestly it should have been included in the collection.

The gravmag is dojo research.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 23 heures, Xaxma a dit :

I feel like 80% of the criticism is coming from people who are only looking at the numbers and haven't tried her.

Sources ?

Mega thread is full of people who criticize her and it's full of relevant constructive feedback. Maybe you don't agree with any of them but you're only entitled to your own opinion.

Edited by 000l000
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Posted (edited)

I have some gripes with Hildryn that I hope can be taken into account

Aegis Storm

  1. Rise and Descent speed is too slow.
  2. Ascension height is limited when jumping.
    Hildryn wont Ascend if you activate her 4 after jumping.
  3. Hildryn doesn't automatically switch to her 1 when using 4.

I'd also like the devs to keep in mind that having an "Exalted weapon or ability" that does nothing special outside of being an ordinary weapon is part of the reason why people call wukong terrible. We have to stop making these mistakes.

Edit: Hildryns flight controls should also be tied to your Achwing settings, not your crouch and jump buttons.

Edited by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru
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On 2019-03-09 at 6:05 PM, CerebrateJoe said:

**The largest problem is related to #4  I can't descend.  I figured out its related to crouch-toggle vs crouch-hold.  Hold-to-crouch descends just fine, but I don't use that.  I use a keyboard for movement and I use the crouch-toggle so I can't descend.

Overall, I'm having a lot of fun with her and I am very pleased with my purchase.

THIS!

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Feedback regarding Hildryn's overall kit.

Passive is pretty good by warframe standards, shield gating is a nice way to know its time to fall back and having slash/toxin procs not ignore overshields is pretty neat. Base stats are also really high on the shields, which makes sense for a frame super-reliant on them. Low health, but pretty high armor which is pretty fine since more armor is good but will rarely hit levels where you need it outside of the "godmode decaying key Hildryn" setup.

Ability wise, she seems much better as a support/utility frame than actually using her Balefire/Aegis Storm to deal damage.

BALEFIRE: Literally the worst exalted weapon in the game bar none, not even Wukong's Iron Staff is as bad as this. There are so many glaring issues with this ability that I actually actively avoid using her balefire, even if its to just mess around. 

-Remove the walking animation locks. The main gripe about this ability is the dumb ""animation locks"" it has. Each time you fire, there is a short window where you're stuck in an awful walking stance especially when you're charging. You're basically a sitting duck as slow as a prowling Ivara, except Prowl makes you undetectable while Balefire forces you to stay still just to shoot. There is no incentive on using this weapon compared to a Staticor/Sonicor/Catchmoon/Arca Plasmor/Opticor when literally those weapons don't hinder mobility at all even when they need charging to deal more damage. Also, for those who say "Aim gliding/bullet jumping will cancel the walking animation" it doesn't. There is a hard animation lock for 2 seconds each time you fire Balefire, meaning you're stuck in an animation lock whenever you land after shooting via bullet jumps/aim glides. Peacemaker gets a pass to its animation locks considering how powerful of a room clearer it is, but Balefire shouldn't have animation locks especially when its AoE and dps potential is so slow compared to Peacemaker.

-Buff the base stats. Having a raw damage exalted secondary is out of the question now, especially when we have the Staticor/Catchmoon/Sonicor which all deal potentially the same amount of damage but they all have higher Status/Critical Chances for scalability without actually draining your survivability aka your shields. The AoE is also so tiny that you would barely notice it. Charge time of 2s is also subjectively slow, when its more efficient to just spam the ability even with Anemic Agility equipped. Atlas can get away with raw damage Landslide since his ability benefits from combo multipliers to get absurdly high numbers, but guns do not have that benefit. A reasonable suggestion I can give is to buff the base Status Chance and the AoE on charged shots, which will give more incentive to charging than just spamming the ability.

 

SHIELD PILLAGE: Really good utility for shield/armor removal and also good form of sustainability for Hildryn. Only downside is that this ability becomes pretty useless if you run against Infested or want to run 4 Corrosive Projections. Subjective opinion, but I would suggest allowing Shield Pillage to restore a very tiny flat amount of shields based on each enemy hit as a backup for when enemies have no shields/armor.

 

HAVEN: Good supportive tool, nice for giving allies shield gating and bonus shields. However, it is pretty bad for an offensive tool unless you are running low level exterminates (basically, an Ember with line of sight). 

 

AEGIS STORM: Really mixed opinions about this ability. It has good crowd control, and it is pretty fun to fly around. However:-

- No actual incentive for flying higher. You can fly higher, yes but that means you lose your AoE crowd control for more damage? More damage? The game has already reached levels where ""more damage"" means tickles to enemies. We are gimping crowd control potential just to deal slightly bigger tickles. Aegis Storm is already slow as a mobility tool, with parkours being better for traversal, but losing crowd control just for more damage is not the way to go unless said ability has a way to deal with armor/shield scaling (Like Danse Macabre/Miasma+Spore Combos). Instead of asking the AoE radius to not be changed while flying higher, it would be better to make Hildryn get more utility out of limited enemies when flying higher, such as enemies getting more orb spawns the higher Hildryn flies. This would help Hildryn be more supportive to allies who need the energy and allows her to sustain herself better for Aegis' crowd control.

-Forcing fake synergies, and Balefire getting no boosts in Aegis. The forced synergy here is really obvious when using Aegis. You're not allowed to use any weapon except Balefire. This would be decently fine if Balefire actually gets boosted in Aegis. Also, Hildryn getting 2 Balefires in Aegis is merely cosmetic. It doesn't make her shoot 2 Balefires at once, nor does Balefire gain anything special to its damage. There is no damage buff, not even a fire rate buff, the 2nd Balefire is just there as a cosmetic feature. Only reason people use Balefires in Aegis is cause they are forced to, not because it is a good damaging ability. If other weapons are allowed to be used in Aegis, Balefire won't even be touched cause of how many weapons can easily outdo its damage. 

The main aspect of this ability that is problematic is the forced and fake synergies. Simple suggestions would be making Balefire have a 2-burst firing mode while in Aegis, or even double damage/AoE while in Aegis. A more extreme suggestion would be to allow the use of guns, except melee in Aegis Storm (since meleeing while airborne doesn't really make much sense outside of gunblades).

Conclusion: Too many ability limitations. Hildryn could be made into a fun, and powerful offensive utility frame but she is exceptionally held back by so many "ability locks".  So far, Hildryn has the most obvious ability limitations among our warframes up to date. You can't parkour with Balefire, you can't use Pillage without shields/armor existing,  and you can't use any weapon in Aegis except the awfully mediocre Balefire, which also fakes its "doubled potential". 

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Hildryn is "great" BUT needs MORE! Balefire need fire rate, auto and semi options! i imagine Hildryn lauching missiles or with figther escort (4 of itzal) shootin lasers or granades with the sound of TONKOR, more faster, just like a CHOPA! right now is like a bad small dron.! NEEEED MOOORE POWAAAAA! Like a Boeing AH-64 Apache :)

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Posted (edited)

There are times when you dodge while using Aegis where you can no longer do anything.  Quite simply, all controls become unresponsive except for movement.  The only way to get out of this bug is to enter the 'menu' screen which is the "options" button on PS4.

 

Also, as far as feedback goes for the frame herself, Pillage needs better consistency.  Though it does have the benefit of negating armor (which could be massive but it's hard to tell it's effects ingame of course), the return on shields is fairly inconsistent.  The biggest issue I find is the Line of Sight.  It creates major inconsistencies.  This includes Aegis as well tbh.  Just the simple fact of another Tenno running between you and the enemy drops LoS--and though it should from a 'reality' standpoint, it does creates some nuisances with this Frame.

The easy solution would be to scrap the LoS requirement but I do feel this would negate some of the reason to have Duration on Pillage.  And I could honestly see it breaking her with Aegis.  But unless LoS gets improved dramatically, I'm not sure what else would be possible.  I feel somehow, enemy and ally units should not count toward breaking LoS.

Lastly, look at making Pillage give a base amount of Shield back per enemy hit and this is effected by Strength mod.  So say at max level, every enemy hit gives 30 Shields back.  Thus even if you're playing against Flesh enemies only (ie Infested), she can at least see some return on investment that could benefit her still.

 

Edit:  i should add that there are many times when i have LoS of an enemy and they are not effrcted by Aegis.  Its quite often honestly.  If i were to guess, 10 to 20 percent of the time an enemy just runs freely in my AoE for a few seconds till it decides to proc on them.  I even stood right next to a Nox and he didnt get effected for the first 4 or 5 seconds.  And even aftwards, it would inconsistently cc him as he seems to break from it briefly for no reason. 

Edited by (PS4)ImTooHungover

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Looks like the elevation inconsistencies (as reported) have been fixed! Great! Now if only her 3 can proc status; that would be great and she would be in a nice spot.

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The only negative part I've experienced with her is her #1. The slow charge up, small hitbox, narrow splash and movement slowdown turns it into one wonky weapon. Not only that but her reticle ends up covered by Hildryn aswell. Simply a skill I stay clear of atm.

The rest works really well. It could be nice to see a slight buff to Pillage, so it inflicts a small amount of damage versus un-shielded/un-armored enemies. Would make her more PuG friendly incase you end up with a full CP group, or you end up with other armor stripping frames, or when you fight the infested. It wouldnt have to be much, 25 neutral damage or so just to be able to sustain her shields in all encounters without having to rely on specific companions.

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Posted (edited)

@4holes

Thank you so much for giving actual and all around feedback regarding Hildryn. So we don't need to do this anymore.

I can agree with everything you said and will also add my following opinion tidbits.

Hildryn is very fun to play from the box, unlike the last couple Frames that came out since i started playing, like Revenant, Garuda and Baruuk, which felt disconnected and having just some sort of design pilosophy but no actual game concept to them, Hildryn feels so good overall, that i see myself bringing her out really often albeit her (small) problems, especially in contrast to the before mentioned Frames!

In addition to 4holes feedback post, i feel as Hildryn does substantially fall off as soon as you go into higher level situations.

I did bring her to Sorties, but i felt like being quickly outnumbered and not properly protected by my abilities like Haven, which brings radiatan damage, but more often than not, even with actual proccs on enemies i get attacked or the wonky LOS will just show an enemy targeted by Haven but not actually affected. The radiation proccs seem to be part of her defensive mechanics, yet in higher levels it seems to be very ineffective.

A possibility might be to give her some sort of effect like with Radial Disarm from Lokis #4 when Augmented, so it works as an actual defensive tool.

Her #2 is cute, but to slow on the cast animation and the actual result for Hildryn. Conditions get removed on cast start, which is nice, but the cast animation lock is counter productive for this ability, as i think it's a sort of long term investment because the actual benefit comes after the effect returned, while inbetween Hildryn might get into trouble.

That her #2 is a full body cast animation is bad for the actual ROI which is to be expected with a delay. To circumvent this, making it a one handed cast (like Volt's #1 & #2) would preserve her mobility and allow for reaction until the benefit from the cast actually take effect.

Her damage output seems to be lacking and her abilities seem to have a very flat scaling overall. She needs a lot of stats to make all her abilities worthwhile, similar to Equinox, the result from needing a lot of very specific stats does not satisfy.

I can't just slap power strength on and range an be good. Hildryn needs also some supplements for her shields, maybe Vitality in high level missions (big maybe), Range, Duration, Efficiency and Power Strength to not loose her radiation procs and shield stealing scaling on her #2 and so on.

Making her abilities scale a tad bit better and allowing for her abilities either to scale good on Power Strenght or maybe something like scaling on the amount of shields she has as a stat (not a dynamic thing like actual shields currently available, which would make her abilties work against her).

On a last note, her #1 and #4 feel more like they should be one ability instead splitted like this, which would open up a slot on her #1 for something else.

So make her #1 part of her #4 like with Titania and her Dex weapons while in her Razorwing and give Hildryn a new ability on slot #1.

 

edit: Hidlryn current biggest weakness is that once her shields are depleted and after her gating wears off, shield regeneration is subject to interruption by enemy fire, which might bring trouble, because her only resource for her abilities will get limited heavily.

Giving her some sort of regen buff after a shield depletion and her invulnerabilty wears off or even WHILE she is invulnerable to allow for her to gain back some of her shields faster, might help with solo gameplay or in higher missions.

 

edit: Hildryn is currently the only Frame not being able to participate in Nightmare Missions, due to all her abilities needing shields as fuel, limiting her to her weaponry and locking her out from all her defensive tools in her abilitie kit.

Well, yes, she can go into those missions, but being more than a glorified Sortie Agent or Warframe Specter does not make it better.

Edited by TBB.
typos, edit, aditions
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