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Hildryn Feedback Megathread

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Posted (edited)

Poor arch melee. Nobody wants to use it.

Edited by zhellon

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Why is her exalted weapon actual hot garbage? 

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When it comes to defense, there are 2 different ranges:

- outward range, which doesnt get the job done if the enemy is too far away (Nyx Chaos, Loki Disarm)
- or inward range, which defends a defenite job (Frost Bubble, Limbo stasis or Banish)

Hildryn has a short-ranged ourward in her 4, no inward range. That is fine. Its just, what is her application? Her Tempo is a lot slower than other more dynamic frames. So a medium to slow pacing is usually attributed to a defensive frame or a support frame. She doesnt have enough impact on any outward range that would make her viable on hold-your-ground-style missions like Interceptions (she can affect one Point but beyond that it is unrelyable) and she isnt made out for Engage-content because the other frames just out-pace her.

Cool concept, I got no idea what to do with her. What IS your intent, DE? Is design and aesthetics your only selling point? You did that with Nezha, and it took quite some effort to make THAT frame see play... Are we in that same area of design yet again? If that is your wish, I dont mind. But if you wanted to give us a tool for a specific task, we were so far unable to figure out what you wanted to tell us. Her 1 is strong, her 2 and 3 have some potential, her 4 is useful. None of these abilities OR the combination of abilties is raising Spock's eyebrow. It is just.... decently useful and I guess you can play it.

So yeah: DE, we as a community tried the frame for a bit and now we rarely if ever see somebody use it in a mission, like, not to level it to 30. Just like Wukong. Except you gotta respect Wukong, because he has some spots in the game where he really excels. Hildryn? The unique selling point is the Archwing gun, and one run at the Exploiter Orb tells you all you need to know about Archwing gun playability: OMG i get stuff faster with Amazon than I get a gun from Warframe. And changing back to your regular primary weapon is like calling the customer complaints hotline of the Tschernobyl power plant. Results may differ. And it may take you some time before something actually happens.

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Suggestion:

Use the new different energy colours to separate between "friendlies" and "enemies" when using Hildryn's 3rd (Haven), so that links to "friendlies" are energy colour #1 and links to enemies are energy colour #2 (or vice versa). Or something equivalent (like flipping the start & end colour 180o depending on enemy/friend status).

If one sets energy colours that are "different enough", this would allow her third to also function as a close-range friend/enemy tracker (a bit like Trin's Link, but with "friends included"), which would be quite nice (and a tiny bit special 🙂). And if you do not want to "force" this on all players, an option could be to include this as an "additional" augment effect, whenever a Haven augment comes out.

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On 2019-03-07 at 9:21 PM, Auris40 said:

Please reconsider placing her main blueprint into the "shadow" rank. I already skipped baruuk because of the unbearable grind (or adjust the toroid drop rates at least). Id hate to have to skip yet another frame.

LOL! Yes, the Toroid grind is unbearable, and hardly drops. There should be other ways of obtaining it.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 1 heure, (PS4)Strider_Foreva a dit :

LOL! Yes, the Toroid grind is unbearable, and hardly drops. There should be other ways of obtaining it.

I don't know what you mean. I collected them on the days when the probability of falling out was lower. If you don't want to farm, what do you do in warframe?

Now I understand where the claims about the lack of content come from.

Edited by zhellon

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (PS4)Strider_Foreva said:

LOL! Yes, the Toroid grind is unbearable, and hardly drops. There should be other ways of obtaining it.

You are aware that you only need a handful of the 3 regular toroids for ranking up and you can get pretty much all standings you need from the current event bossfight, right? Login hoping for a resource boost, do that fight a few times, easy level 5...

This is a LOT less obnoxious than the Quills. If you dont find Eidolons particularly interesting and you dont want to do them over and over and over and over again, you just dont have much of a way to level up the quills standings...

Even outside the bossfight, the Toroids arent too bad. Use the recruiting channel to find a group with one player that has a drop CHANCE booster active, have your own login reward or rare chest or sortie booster active, just grind it out in a bit. Really not awefully complicated to do, compared to other endurace tests in the game. I would argue getting shadow rank really is a lot easier to do than fortuna ranks.

Edited by random__noob

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Posted (edited)

I love the design of Hildryn and what it's trying to accomplish.

But I think that it is also is a design paradox (using the protection you have to replenish that protection) that had to be patched with a passive ability because there is no solution to a paradox but another one.

Because that passive does not prevent your overshield and shield to be stripped down by a group of lvl 50+ enemies over time, but still react to it when your paradoxical cycle (excuse me) runs out because you can not suck shield faster that the amount of damage dealt to you to recharge your shield so you can have shield gate again.... because you are running out of shield...

So, her passive is the embodiement of the paradox of the frame gameplay cycle as it needs an abuse of sinergy between mods, arcanes and dragon key to function on a loop and thus becoming it's own paradox, because... it removes the need to use the skills.

-----

The paradox continues when you think about the limitations of her skills just for a second. Especially her Second skill - which is her most important one, it embodies the meaning of the frame - her vital blood and her deflecting skin. If her 2 was instant like mag, she will never die - think about Mag with twice as much shield and an invulnerabilty gate after which she could instant cast her 2 again. So we have an inner duration on the wave and a natural shield recharge time that unless modded to the extreme (here we go passive paradox) is useless.

-----

Some frames are clunky, not viable at super high level, have only one good skill or are just outdated; I play or don't play them. I enjoy tryng to make them work or I just don't. But they give me something: a gameplay, a niche where i can push an idea, even stupid but creative.

Hildryn is just having me scratching my head no matter what build I try; Kind of paradoxical when you think about it.

 

 

Edited by elmetnuter
removing wrong point
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Imagine playing any frame and every hit you took drained energy equal to the damage taken, that's basically my entire experience so far with hildryn. It's not so bad as long as you constantly spam pillage but you really feel it in her ult since it can't be cast during it, and especially since it's so slow. Barrier/aegis and adaptation are nearly mandatory for her cause of that aswell.

As for the rest of the kit, the firing cost and summoning cost seem accidentally reversed for balefire and the charging costing like 350% more shields for only 100% damage to fire is insane. Meanwhile haven is fine for what it does but it's sorta lame that it doesn't buff hildryn herself in any other way.

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joke megathread, devs didn't even take a single suggestion from here to improve her further when she still needs QoL

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Hildryn's passive seems to not be working. I tested this with self-damage via a rocket launcher. I had maximum overshields, and one shot of the rocket nuked me down to my health. The invulnerability kicks in as it should, but the "shield gating" aspect does not. Both the overshields and the regular shields do not provide the shield gating benefit as it supposedly should provide. This means, if i let my shields recharge to less-than-full, and rocket myself again, instead of dropping down to just my health, I am knocked down and need to be revived - hence, no shield gating.

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Why are some of her metal bits all over her body a part of her primary color and not her accents color? It seems a bit Inconsistent.

A few examples:
HildrynMetalBits.png
HildrynMetalBits2.png
HildrynMetalBits3.png
HildrynMetalBits4.png
 

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Il y a 10 heures, JordanDC2 a dit :

Hildryn's passive seems to not be working. I tested this with self-damage via a rocket launcher. I had maximum overshields, and one shot of the rocket nuked me down to my health. The invulnerability kicks in as it should, but the "shield gating" aspect does not. Both the overshields and the regular shields do not provide the shield gating benefit as it supposedly should provide. This means, if i let my shields recharge to less-than-full, and rocket myself again, instead of dropping down to just my health, I am knocked down and need to be revived - hence, no shield gating.

This is a bug. If you restored shield and immediately received lethal damage, then he will pass fully. You need to spend at least 1 unit of the shield, and then get lethal damage to invulnerability worked.

You can also assume that you are using toxin, then if normal damage completely kills supershield, the toxin kills you. In fact, I wish the developers had considered the option when normal shields would have a higher priority of receiving damage than supershield. And it looks like this mechanic doesn't work on allies even when they have their supershield.

 

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Finally have some time to give a last impression.

Hildryn is amazing.
Powerful, and tanky.

She's like a compact battleship, raining death and destruction where she goes.

This did however, make me a bit lazy in the end as well.
It's fun to blaze through hordes, with no worries.
But switching back to a fragile frame...
Ouch, I almost forgot what it was to be more cautious.

Does this mean she is overpowered?
No.

She's like Achilles.
Has the strength, and also has the heel.

A poison damage sortie mission, made that clear.
As all those shields meant nothing, to getting one-shot by immense poison damage.

She's very ineffective against infested, as these usually wield these elements.
But also, due to them not having any armor.
It makes her shield restoration, have almost no effect at all.
In a situation where she could use these overshields, more than anything.

It is also dangerous sometimes.
As her health is but a sliver on the HUD.
So, before you can say; 'Looks like I'm 'shield-bypass' procced, I need to cast this off'
You allready hit the floor in a bleedout state.
My arrogance against the stalker, getting a lucky slash proc off, taught me that much.
(As I was going: 'Allright boy, you can go ahead and make the first hit against me. Show me what you got.' :facepalm:)
That was a good lesson for sure.

 

Now I heard, that she was meant to test shield-gating.
So, what does Hildryn teach us on this plane?

Nothing actually.

Her health is too low, to be able to see any influence.
In fact, she turns automatically invincible for a few seconds (her passive) instead.
Which brings us no feedback, on shield-gating.

I do love the fact that her shield being used as energy, is approached.
Hildryn therefore becomes unique in certain situations (nightmare energy drain / sortie low energy).
(I don't think it would be smart to use her in a nightmare - no shields - mode though.)

 

Despite some weaknesses.
Loving her overall design, and power she possesses.
A very welcome addition to the family. :heart:

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 6 heures, AegisAmaranth a dit :

As all those shields meant nothing, to getting one-shot by immense poison damage.

I'm not worried about poison damage at all. 150% resistance xD 190% in air

But it seems to me that its passive could work better, as I don't feel the need for large shields, as it reduces my protection.

Threw it at Reddit, Kina and here. Maybe somewhere, let him hear.

Révélation

6gkzl6hecws21.jpg

 

Edited by zhellon
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"My initial thoughts" 

Hildryn

 P.O.E. remastered update threw a huge wrench in hildryn 4th ability. So, while trying to fix her 4th elvation issue and stop it from picking up certian emenies. Hildryn can not longer pick up any enemies in index and syndicate enemies that spawn in missions.  Her 4th still has enemy elevation issue. Guess I, or we can chalk this up to fix nothing break everything update. What bout hildryn 1st, 2nd, and 3rd abilities?  I personally find that I had to mod her for her 1st & 2nd or her 3rd and 4th. When I tried to make her 1st and 4th worth playing with at the same time her 1st dmg fell off quick. Her 2nd is a broken version of energy vampire that didnt work well enough to use  before or after ussing her 4th.  I feel hildryn is insanely difficult if not improbable to mod without modding her for a cliche niche build around only ussing one or two of her abilities. Where does that leave me?  My thoughts on hildryn right now are she has potential, however I see her not getting play time untill her 4th elevation is fix properly and her 2nd works as well as trinity's energy vampire.  

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-13 at 2:38 AM, Yousho said:

Why is her exalted weapon actual hot garbage? 

did you actually try to use it?
fully modded, with 2 forma this thing hits like a truck, insta kill everything below level 70 is not weak.

Yes, crit chance is low, but not all weapons are flashy crit weapons.
I agree the explosion range is on the low side, but other then that, it's decent enough

Edited by bigBiermonster
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6 hours ago, bigBiermonster said:

did you actually try to use it?
fully modded, with 2 forma this thing hits like a truck, insta kill everything below level 70 is not weak.

Yes, crit chance is low, but not all weapons are flashy crit weapons.
I agree the explosion range is on the low side, but other then that, it's decent enough

 

I did. Crit chance AND status are low. All it has is base damage. Yeah, it can do what almost every other weapon can do. 

I mean, c'mon, throw a couple of forma on my grandma and she'll one-shot most things below level 70 too, and she's been dead for, like, 40 years. 

Against higher level enemies, especially as armour scales up, which is, atleast from where I'm sitting, the only thing that actually matters, it just doesn't have the performance. 

It's an exalted weapon, and it's the only thing she can use in her 4, so she's *heavily* dependant on it. I shouldn't ever feel like I'd be better off just using a regular gun. It being totally outclassed by a well modded spitball is also a huge issue for her 4. 

Imo exalted weapons should be absolutely the best in their class. But there's many other single shot weapons that are outright better, and most of them still aren't considered good.

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4 hours ago, Yousho said:

It's an exalted weapon, and it's the only thing she can use in her 4, so she's *heavily* dependant on it. I shouldn't ever feel like I'd be better off just using a regular gun. It being totally outclassed by a well modded spitball is also a huge issue for her 4. 

 

I also dislike the fact  she can only use her exalted weapon while flying, but this is besides the point. 

 

Quote

 Imo exalted weapons should be absolutely the best in their class. But there's many other single shot weapons that are outright better, and most of them still aren't considered good.


No one said exalted weapons should be the best in their class, and stat wise, it's mostly not the case for other exalted weapons as well.

Not every exalted weapon can be a beast, Hildryn is already OP as hell (versus 2 of 3 factions), balancing out DPS in exchange for tankiness is common practice in game design, think about her with mesa's 4, or valkittly's 4, hell, even Excal's 4 - completely broken.

let's hope they will hear us and release an augment to her 4 that wiill allow her to AT LEAST use her arch gun or something when flying, but even as i'm writing it I understand how broken it can be.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Yousho said:

Imo exalted weapons should be absolutely the best in their class. But there's many other single shot weapons that are outright better, and most of them still aren't considered good.

It is an ability ONE. Not a four. Dont compare it to Excaliburs ultimate. Sure she can only use that in her 4, but design wise her 4 was not intended to be a permanent state, or they wouldnt have had you drain your shield all the time.

Sure, nobody really KNOWS what to do with her 4, but that is pretty much the complete feedback of this topic.

But I wouldnt call her 1 weak. Compare it to other 1's in the game, and you will see it is actually not bad. And she is a frame that removes armor with other methods, so low status is forgivable.

Maybe there is still hope for Hyldrin when her Augments come out. Like having her 1 REPLENISH your shield when you hit something. That would change a few things. Or have her 2 or 3 give you a forward shield with a 5 seconds invul period, so that she can at least take a hit. Who knows.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Yousho said:

Against higher level enemies, especially as armour scales up, which is, atleast from where I'm sitting, the only thing that actually matters, it just doesn't have the performance. 

 

Yes, that is why you have Pillage. This lets you counter armor. The problem does not lie in her exalted weapon, but in the limitations of Aegis Storm which removes the use of Pillage, which in turn cripples her Balefire against armor. 

Balefire alone completely shreds Corpus and Infested enemies. When you have this much base damage status chance and crit chance aren't that important. Not to say I wouldn't appreciate more of each, as Hildryn has quickly become my favorite frame, but I don't really think she needs it. I even have some damage examples of uncharged shots to showcase why. (Individual gif links if they don't load below, [1][2][3]).

165 Corpus Techs

165 Infested Ancients

 

And then with the help of Pillage (after 3 casts in gif) you can take on even high level Corrupted. 2 quick casts of Pillage gets the job done in 5-7 shots of Balefire, which is still great TTK even it it doesn't stack up to the likes of Artemis Bow or Regulators. The Pillage casts are not shown because overshield sends targets into the stratosphere. In normal map geometry this isn't a problem as they will usually get stuck on something, but it hinders showcasing the power in the simulacrum when anything that survives the first hit is on a mission to Mars.

165 Corrupted Bombards/Gunners

 

TL:DR - Her exalted weapon is fine and needs little in the way of buffs. Aegis Storm is the problem because it nerfs her weapon indirectly by removing its ability to handle armored targets. If Aegis Storm allowed the use of Pillage (probably OP), or had innate armor strip on its damaging ticks (less OP), it would make Balefire not seem like such a bad exalted weapon. But, in the current state Aegis Storm actively makes Hildryn worse in exchange for middling CC potential. 

Edited by WeaselBoy

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8 hours ago, random__noob said:

It is an ability ONE. Not a four. Dont compare it to Excaliburs ultimate. Sure she can only use that in her 4, but design wise her 4 was not intended to be a permanent state, or they wouldnt have had you drain your shield all the 

Nidus and Garuda.

These are two frames that have proven that not only can first abilities be really good, but they can also be the best ability in their kit. Being a “1st ability” is no longer an excuse for the ability to suck.

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il y a 7 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

Nidus and Garuda.

These are two frames that have proven that not only can first abilities be really good, but they can also be the best ability in their kit. Being a “1st ability” is no longer an excuse for the ability to suck.

you're right. The first ability is what we should use most often. On this moment staticor more comforting, than the first a skill.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nidus and Garuda.

These are two frames that have proven that not only can first abilities be really good, but they can also be the best ability in their kit. Being a “1st ability” is no longer an excuse for the ability to suck.

damn right, and Khora too...omg pure devastation even without some top stat sticks rivens...

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