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[DE]Danielle

(Update 24.4.0) OPERATION: Buried Debts Feedback Megathread

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This event felt scrambled together at the last minute. I liked the rewards. I liked pretty much everything on the reward table. Amalgam mods, especially the one with sprint speed was very nice. Opticor Vandal, great weapon. But sealing the fractures wasn't very engaging. After the third of fourth time it was already becoming draining, to the point where I breathed a sigh of relief when it was over. I did it over the week and finished it yesterday. The enemies in Orb Vallis just aren't that fun to fight, in my opinion. They toss you around, they get stuck and shoot at you from miles away, they ignore certain warframe abilities for no apparent reason... 

I'm so done with Orb Vallis at this point. I don't want to play it anymore. I'm not even gonna bother with the new boss. Hopefully Railjack will bring some new life to the game.

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This is in reference to the orb fight. Honestly, this was a really long fight, it took me a bit to figure out the mechanics, but all in all it was very enjoyable. It took me about 40 minutes, and noticed several bugs along the way, Ill post them here and in the pc bug section. The coolant raknoids sometimes rag doll when killed throwing stretched bodies everywhere. Theres a UI bug after defeating the orb, the heat meter basically carried over from when the fight finished, and stayed on my screen upon entering fortuna. There also wasnt alot of time after the orb starts to glow and when it detonates for me to grab the loot. Atleast the profit taker gives 30 seconds, there wasnt any timer for this fight. I grabbed the loot, tryed to archwing away and died, luckily still had some revives. The orb also in the first part of the fight was able to shoot me through walls which was pretty frustrating. All in all these are my initial thoughts

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About new boss fight , in middle of the canister stage frame rate drops quite a bit. Then host migration and somehow entire squad gets disbanded. Don't think am gonna try a boss fight unless the intentional abort is restricted by some hefty fine. 

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Just killed the Exploiter for the first time, solo. Took way longer than it should have, because of a couple bugs. And not just the robot spidery kind.

Part way through the fight, she climbed up onto the nearby mountain, and some of the coolant Raknoids stated spawning directly under her, so I couldn't stop them from cooling her. And at the same point, most of the nearby vents that she created were spawning underground, so I couldn't interact with them.

Also, for some reason, even though I was solo, every time she made more fractures, a "get to the objective players waiting:0" message would blink at the top of the screen. And after the fight, even after returning to Fortuna, the heat bar stayed on my HUD.

I would also suggest marking the thermia canisters with objective markers, ones that are different from the coolant canisters. They get lost in the foliage really easily.

 

Otherwise a fun fight. Not too tough, but fun. I always like a boss fight that makes you do something different than the rest of the game, but isn't completely separate from the main mechanics.

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so, it was fun to figure out how to fight the orb (did it solo and no peeking around the forum for infos)... now to fight itself:

  • 1st stage inside the ruins poses problems, though the aim-mechanic to throw the canisters is a bit bad - would be nice to get a balistic curve like with the tonkor. there actually is one, if you hold down the 'throw' button.
  • 2nd stage outside has a few 'flaws', at least when trying it alone (which i suppose isn't really intended). anyway, the amount of coolant raktoids is isn't to high, BUT they often tend to spawn far to close to the orb and then nearly instantly 'puke' (sorry, it sure looks like that ^^) their coolant on her. reducing the number of raktoids spawned the less players are there, would be nice and also, increase the minimum distance where they can spawn (not sure about if she 'spawns' some right under her like in normal circumstances, but that should be happen anymore during the fight for it's a bit unfair). also, the pause of them spawning on certain times should be a bit longer for the player to handle the canister-loading.
  • the orb can somehow cool herself too without any help... not sure if those fracture creating is meant to cool her, or the flame attacks she does, which only make partial sense, but she should surely heat up far more and/or quicker be herself if we shoot all (or most) raktoids down before they... puke... on her - then, only one or two canister of thermia should finish the job to shut her down for a while. this would also help those who like to solo her.
  • often, i noticed that even when i hit her with a full canister, it didn't do any heating to her - regardless where i aimed at or when doing so at certain attack moments. might be a bit bugged or there is more it then i could uncover... so if it's that. a little clue for the first-timer would have been nice (and is still, since i also would like to know for sure)
  • a few more seconds for the player to loot her before she goes boom in the end would be nice too (think of those who are a bit farther away from her because of raktoid interception and/or canister duty)
  • please make this a bounty or heist mission - i really hate having to use the recruitment chat to get a team together. when trying this in a pug you only end up with people not doing it, being far too weak for it or simply leeching on the work of those who do the fight... not to mention the big problem with host migrations during the fight (suprise, suprise - who would have expected this, eh?). this really has nothing to do in the free roaming, or at least, not ONLY there.
  • and again: do something about those host-migrations - it doesn't matter if we need more time starting the mission/loading into the valis, as long as you really choosen the best suited player as the host and that is NOT only the one who has a low latency for the 3 seconds pings to do on the players but the ones who have a stable latency and also a not too high one (but better one in mid-range upto 350ms but stable there, than one whos latency oscilating between 30ms and 1500++ms). and then, do something about people who are the host and kicking the team on purpose just for a giggle - especially if you can't fix all those migration related problems. those people should get on timed blacklists to prevent them from being a host in any public match - and regardless on how the migration happened (yes even if they only had bad luck with a brownout or ISP screw up - live is hard and the black listing is only timed afterall and won't prevent them from either joying a pug or creating a team via lobby). the p2p nature of warframe makes it far to easy to annoy other players to no end and since warframe lacks in many ways any fallback methods for 'unforeseen' connection losses, there has to be some kind of discouragement for abusers ofthis weakness.
  • oh, it would have been nice if we actually had to put in the door code ourself instead of it beeing automated. at least once...

all in all, i liked the fight even though it sure took me some time - but i was expecting this when trying it solo.

i'm not  sure about her damage output since i used an nearly unkillable innaros for the fight, but many people complained about ther underbelly-turret and damage it does - but all the 'new' attacks from her surely felt a bit too weak (compared to what we get from profit taker). but like i said, that might only be because of choice of frame build.

i want to add some bugs i encountered here too - even though it's not the correct place:

  • the door to exit the cave... sometimes it doesn't work at all, sometime if all players bumping their noses to it, it will open. (saw that only as host so far)
  • getting out of the cave, there was no exploiter present. (saw that as client only - and there was a host migration right at the start, still all players were at the elevator)
  • host migration caused me having the AW-gun in my hand - always... but only as a visual since i could use all other weapons normally... with the AW-gun being showed. but ofc, the 'real' AW gun were unavailable to be the entire run. (only as client, and ofc, after host-mig)
  • when exitig the cave after 1st stage and being in operator mode the time the transition was done (for healing the team, not out of fun), the operator mode was broken for the rest of the mission (had this as host as well as client)
  • first part of the 2nd stage outside, the 'heat-o-meter' of exploiter did not moved at all, but it still worked heating her up and plugging her first modul out. after that, the 'heat-o-meter' worked again. (nearly every time as host as well as client - and the others in team had this too - only in solo mode i didn't had this).
  • sometimes some fractures were only half there... meaning one could see them boiling but no rubble was around it and they were not usuable for the canister. they disappeared normally after some time. (as host and as client as well... i think also in solo).

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32 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

often, i noticed that even when i hit her with a full canister, it didn't do any heating to her - regardless where i aimed at or when doing so at certain attack moments. might be a bit bugged or there is more it then i could uncover... so if it's that. a little clue for the first-timer would have been nice (and is still, since i also would like to know for sure)

Yeah, I wasn't really sure what's up with this either. I do notice that the gauge... uh... glows(?) a bit, but the gauge doesn't budge. Might be a visual bug. Maybe. Or maybe I'm doing this part wrong by targeting the wrong area.

In regards to the turret thing, I feel that the Exploiter Orb hits far too accurately. Only takes a few shots from that to take out my sentinel. ...Well, then again I don't think any of us are actually hoping our sentinel would survive stuff like this.

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Why is there no ability to just queue for the fight? It's basically impossible to solo (well, takes forever and a day, or two and the slightest mistake means you're toast) but not complex enough to warrant the pain of recruiting chat.

Couple of other things:

  • still ended up randomly (didn't notice what caused it) dropping canisters during the fight
  • picking up a canister forces you onto your alternate and does not switch you back to your main weapon if you had that equipped prior to picking something up. Manually swapping after each canister got a bit tedious 😉

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I sort of went and put this in it's own thread simply because it was so huge (and could gum up the flow going on here), but my feedback, positive and negative, is posted here.

Thank you for your hard work!

 

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DE please reduce required fissure seals or make it possible to do 1 seal for 1 diluted thermia. Doing 4 of them to get 7 is nice but It would be nice if I could do 1 get 1. Or better yet can we drop the whole thermia thing? Can we bring some user accessibility to the fight? It would be nice to have it bounty style to make Pub groups easier to get going. 

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Because you can't queue for the fight you get no ingame marker that shows you where to go next. This makes it impossible for someone who never did the fight before or watched any videos about it to realize if something doesnt work as intended. Me and a friend just wasted half an hour searching for the Exploiter after the inside cave fight - she never spawned outside for us afterwards.

The Boss mechanics are not that difficult - the whole ordeal just lacks a whole lot of communication. The ability to queue for it and the addition of a few markers would help a lot in improving that matter.

I feel like i need to stop using my new favourite Warframe Hildryn out of soldiarity until the ingame information provided for this event allows everyone to participate with a chance of success and get his or her own Hildryn.

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Lets go through the problems:

  • Condensed Thermia switch not highlighted, you can wander deck 12 for an age without seeing it, while still getting Zuud's dialogue talking about the thing. Given the type of thing it is maybe make it glow if you really don't want to put a way point on it (but please, put a waypoint on it)
  • The Thermia expulsion port is over the opposite side of the deck and again, isn't labeled, you just have to be lucky to notice where it is while all hell breaks loose elsewhere. 
  • The "timer" on the thermia expulsion port is again, just something you need to notice, assuming you're stood right their waiting for it.
  • The canisters can be destroyed by Chroma's aura without any indication of what's wrong, no FX, it just disappears when you get close.
  • I completed the deck 12 section and I'm still not clear what I was supposed to do. Shoot them in mid air? were they supposed to stick to the vents, then you shoot them? Did I have to do it more than once per vent? There was minimal feedback of success vs failure, assuming you could see anything with the screen shake, movement and FX.
  • Deck 12 doors periodically just failed to open, making me wonder what I was supposed to be doing.
  • Outside, there was minimal correspondence between the temp gauge and actions from the coolant raknoids, sometimes one would get through and throw coolant and the gauge did nothing, sometimes the gauge would drop right down with no visible reason.
  • The Coolant raknoids are very, very difficult to see at range, blue and black against blue and black.
  • The raknoids would get stuck on terrain, probably cooling the Exploiter but I couldn't see how as there was no connection between gobs of coolant and cooling.

All in all, that was interminable and not something I have any interest in trying again, I gave up after 38 mins of no visible achievement.

Suggestions:

  • Waypoint markers (Thermia switch, Thermia ejector), wait until we get close of you have to but please don't make us guess what you're thinking
  • Improve the throw mechanics, tell us more if we're supposed to throw and shoot mid-air say so "Shoot the canister midair, near the vent" Also, if that is what you're supposed to do then "hitting" the vent with the canister (which we are told to do) isn't actually needed. Give feedback if the canister isn't shot, or if we shoot if too far away.
  • Make the shootable vents more visible! Given all the shake and motion the usual "shimmer of interactivity" was barely visible and given the lighting, the underside of the Exploiter was pretty much black-on-black
  • The vents are arranged such that you need to be virtually underneath the Exploiter, right against the lift to see them, maybe have the Exploiter more in the middle and turn around more to give a vantage on them? Also, have more still moments given the lazy throw arc and the cold procs slowing the process even more.
  • Make the Coolant raknoid visible and make the "cooling" action obviously connected to the movement of the heat gauge. EG: Give the raknoids a distantly visible... say, purple (Not more blue or white!) light on them, when they are about to throw coolant switch it to cyan and pulse it, growing in intensity until the coolant is thrown (AKA telegraph the problematic action). When the coolant has a effect on the Exploiter have a directional contact flash fx on it so we can see where our mistake came from and have the cooling level delta highlight in the heat bar then fade out, tying the failure to the penalty.
  • Let us be able to do something to increase the rate of heating when there are no visible raknoids, waiting for blue on blue blobs is not fun.

I'd say that the cooling drop is too high but really I have no real idea how much was getting through, it didn't look like much but, as I said, without a solid connection of action to effect it just looked random.

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WELL DONE DE! WELL DONE!
That Exploiter Orb boss fight caught me off guard in more ways then one!

Not only was I not expecting to fight a Orb in a situation like that, let alone it even become a boss fight, you also surprised me by actually making a boss fight that felt well choreographed! The terrain in both stages felt great! There was the threat, the objectives mid fight, it wasn't too difficult to understand, nothing was overwhelming, the fight felt intimate and immersive, and it can be done SOLO! NICE!

Of course it can be improved upon, but I'm not even going to try and nitpick. You deserve praise for changing things up!

GOOD JOB! GOOD JOB INDEED! (spoken in smokefinger's voice)

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Thank you for the Exploiter bossfight. This is imo the best boss we've seen in the game by far.

It's certainly not without its flaws, and the orb mother did bring her own bunch of bugs along, but others have already pointed those out and I'm sure will be fixed in time, so instead here's a few of the positive points of the fight that I'd really like to see much more of in future bosses:

  • It's much less dependent on actual weapon loadout than Eidolons and Profit-taker.
  • It has its own unique puzzle-like mechanics, which pushes the fight to be more than just "Grab the biggest gun you have and point it at the big thing until its dead".
  • With multiple tasks needing to be taken care of simultaneously, it requires actual teamwork. This makes it so everyone is constantly playing an active role in the fight.
  • Multiple stages, each with their own mechanics and objectives.
  • Despite being clearly designed with squadplay in mind, it's still solo-able, which is a big positive in my book because I do enjoy that added challenge from time to time.
  • It allows some room for error, which is especially nice in the earlier runs. Makes it more welcoming for newer players as well.
  • It's a blend of lore and gameplay, not an either/or. That's always nice to see.
  • The little cinematics were a really nice touch, and a pleasant surprise.

But that said, there were also a couple of things that didn't really grab me as much:

  • the Orb mother doesn't really have a "boss arena" after the first stage. I was actually somewhat surprised to find her just outside the cave entrance, standing essentially right in the middle of nowhere. It would've been really nice if the 2nd stage of the fight was actually taking place at the Deck 12 exterior instead. Moving from this to this feels a tad... anti-climactic. 
    Maybe the Exploiter could even create the whole Stage 2 arena out of ice, with multiple ice pillars, walls and clusters around the area that stay up for the entire duration of the fight and proc cold on players if they get too close. That would simultaneously provide some good eyecandy, while adding an element of environmental hazard to the fight and also acting as somewhat of a bottleneck for the coolant raknoids, to make the whole overheat phase a bit more manageable.
     
  • The Exploiter's attacks seem to have much less variety compared to Profit-taker or Eidolons. Outside of the handful of attacks that only happen when its reaching high heat level, if the player stays at a safe distance (or in the air) in the "low heat" parts of the the 2nd stage, there's not much the Exploiter can do to pose any threat whatsoever. In case of the higher-tier Eidolons, they can easily throw the respawn screen at the player's face at any time if they're not being careful, which adds a bit of exciting tension to the whole fight. Some people might consider the plethora of Eidolon instakill attacks to be rather excessive, and I can't really argue with that, but at some points in the Exploiter fight I even found myself just bulletjumping right under the spider to get to the other side instead of circling around... because of how much of a non-threat her low heat attacks were being.

All in all though, you guys outdid yourself as always. Kudos.

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Im the only one annoyed by the fact there is no seperate matchmaking for he new Orb? I mean if i just go free roam on Orb valis there is a 50% chance it wil be an Orb or thermia fracture group, and its kinda annoying when you try to specifically farm event points/hylrin

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4 minutes ago, Sylei said:

Im the only one annoyed by the fact there is no seperate matchmaking for he new Orb? I mean if i just go free roam on Orb valis there is a 50% chance it wil be an Orb or thermia fracture group, and its kinda annoying when you try to specifically farm event points/hylrin

you are not. It would be a nice QOL.

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I loved the exploiter orb boss fight, really well done DE! Nice mechanics, really fun boss fight where dps and OP builds don't matter as much but it's still engaging. 

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1 hour ago, fr4gb4ll said:
  • the orb can somehow cool herself too without any help... not sure if those fracture creating is meant to cool her, or the flame attacks she does, which only make partial sense, but she should surely heat up far more and/or quicker be herself if we shoot all (or most) raktoids down before they... puke... on her - then, only one or two canister of thermia should finish the job to shut her down for a while. this would also help those who like to solo her.

This part, it's actually a bit of what'd be called a "DPS Check", although more of a "Mechanics Check"

Her heat gauge resets when she summons more fractures, so you need to get her heat gauge high enough between two fracture attacks. Her heat doesn't go down to zero, though, I think it gets down to 25% or 30%?

Also i'm under the impression that the total amount of coolant/thermia she gets from raknoids/you defines how high her heat gauge gets when she uses some of her moves, you'll notice she's about to pop when she uses the firestorm, by that point her gauge goes bonkers almost 50%.

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-when using khora during the exploiter orb fight sometimes I'm unable to summon venari, the skill get locked, apparently if we go too fast when changing loading zones(entering deck 12 or leaving)  and venari stay behind far away we can no longer use it for the rest of the fight
-sometimes during the second phase i get the message "get to objective 0:player waiting in extraction"
-after killing the orb and extract to fortuna, and reenter orb valis to keep farming, the temperature gauge ui is displayed from the beginning but is always at 0, it fix itself after the first finishing animation of the 2nd phase
respect to the fight itself is a very fun fight, i really love it

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The new exploiter Orb mother is pretty cool and unique from the other orb or other bosses. A few things I must say I like about the boss is that you don't have to have a certain setup. Just a team that can survive and has decent enough weapons. The new mechanics are cool but not frustrating or hard to master but still offers a nice amount of player immersive gameplay. As for the cold procs I don't mind them because they can be avoidable and aren't as annoying as a full knockdown so that's a plus. All in all I'd say this boss is pretty cool except for one thing... Rewards.

I'm gonna be honest, the gems and fish parts are pretty generous and alleviate some of the grind which is always nice but for players (like me) who already have enough gems and fish it just becomes meh. My main problem is that you guys just made Hildryn the main reward. What if I decided to buy her with my hard earned plat? Does that mean all I get is Toroids and MAYBE an ephemera? I'm just saying that there should be another reward and not just Hildryn parts is all. Once I get a bunch of Toroids I won't have a reason to do it again unless I want those ephemera bps. 

Other than that there are a lot of bugs and stuff I could point out, but I'm sure the other player feedback covers most of that. It's just the rewards that bother me. It feels like kind of a let down. But at least the boss was still well done I guess.

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2 hours ago, Fazel412 said:

I feel that the Exploiter Orb hits far too accurately.

i actually think the damn spider uses homing projectiles... it sure looks like that when i face her while side-gliding. at least for some degrees they seem to follow ones path...

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16 minutes ago, WarriorSoundwave said:

I'm gonna be honest, the gems and fish parts are pretty generous and alleviate some of the grind which is always nice but for players (like me) who already have enough gems and fish it just becomes meh. My main problem is that you guys just made Hildryn the main reward. What if I decided to buy her with my hard earned plat? Does that mean all I get is Toroids and MAYBE an ephemera? I'm just saying that there should be another reward and not just Hildryn parts is all. Once I get a bunch of Toroids I won't have a reason to do it again unless I want those ephemera bps. 

+1 to that. sure, it's like the normal way we get parts for other frame too, but it's a bit sad that once we have all 3 parts (took me ten runs btw until i got the system at last) and have more than enough gems and torids too, the mission ofers no more incentive but the fun of it... add to this the need of the diluted coolant that is needed, and you get even less peole willing to do it out for fun either (meaning, you get far too less diluted coolant per time that you need to spend on the first stage), if you intended that to be like ambulas or kela de thaym, then it's ok - but if you intended this to be something we do more often, the rewards should be something else (too) - more like the eidolons are.

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8 hours ago, Devz1 said:

I'm so done with Orb Vallis at this point. I don't want to play it anymore. I'm not even gonna bother with the new boss. Hopefully Railjack will bring some new life to the game.

I actually think that even Frame Fighter if they supported it more will bring new life to this game as it starts everything at 0 really but DE seems to have a "grind formula" and they are sticking with it. All content seems to be new but they all follow a formula and so they all feel the same.

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I'm just curious as to what will be happening with the mining and fishing in Orb Vallis? The new Orb's rewards make mining and fishing in Vallis obsolete. For an end game player the rewards are severely lacking which on top of the buggy fight makes me think it was rushed. I understand that the players that haven't quite hit the late game may like the rewards but that will only last until they have made everything you can make. There is no reason to do this fight once you have the Ephemera. Don't get me wrong I love the concept behind this Orb fight but I just don't see this having much longevity.

Another thing is if you're too slow the overheating will automatically max. The second phase having an auto-complete fail safe also sets a dangerous precedent for future bosses. Could you imagine if eidolon shields dropped because the team didn't do enough amp damage? You could literally just sit there and wait for the fail safe to kick in. This kind of mechanic is not what we need when the game is already lacking difficult content.

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