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(Update 24.4.0) General Feedback Megathread


[DE]Danielle
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1 minute ago, ZuroTheEvil said:

What are you smoking? New system is so much better....

I feel the new system is better if you are primarily focusing on fire arms at the time, or if you adore the stances on the weapons and not just the way quick melee worked, or if your weapon didn't rely on block combos to really shine, or if you wanted to block in the first place [ Rage ] style builds. Or abilities they relied on blocking to really make such of such IE. Guard Derision or Electromagnetic shielding. Both of what require me to control when I block to effectively make use of such and help my allies out. Something I liked doing to help lower level players out. 

The new auto block system also has an issue where it seeks priority to the block at a lot of times, such as the Redeemers shot. Meaning I am able to be shot far more before I actually get such shot out. Forcing me to instead just use my gun, to what defeats the purpose of the whole theme of the weapon.

Over all I believe the new system has a lot of /ifs/ that need to come together for the thing to work well, and sadly if your a melee player and barely wanting to use your gun it is biased against you.

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2 hours ago, Nathren said:

Removal of Quick Attack: I was sort of on the fence about this, but I now miss the ability to refrain from using my combos by just using the standard quick attack animations. The ability to push out a quick jab or two with quick attack increased the viability of putting melee strikes into my gun & blade style, but not all stances are quick, many lock-you into bog-down animations that require careful planning to get off in a high level environment, thus the prevalence of quick-attack with larger weapons as well as Sword and Shield. Final Harbringer for example doesn't actually lock you down into an animation, instead it propels you forward at the speed of light, breaking the flow of combat and thrusting you to the opposite side of the room. This tends to break cohesion with the combat we're interfacing with, Don't get me wrong, I love that a lot, but there was/is a time and a place for the standard combos from Final Harbinger, but now they're the only option for melee, so I find myself either removing the stance entirely and losing a normal mod slot to the drain cap, or just sticking to gun only, no blade or spear, or shield. My proposed solution to this would be offering another toggle in the menu that disables stance attacks or even a keybind that activates and de-activates the stance (Sounds familiar to a certain game with a devil-trigger).

 

Completely agree with this, and I'm on the opposite side of the combo fence. I never used them; I have never intentionally blocked or channelled anything. My play style is heavily reliant on my guns and abilities. I absolutely do not want to be either planted to the ground or sent careening into the void like some kind of deranged fidget spinner because I needed to dispatch a couple of guys who were swarming me, or top up my health with a few sweet hits of healing return.

Having some experience with UX testing, I'm loathe to suggest the ever popular "just add a toggle", but it really would be my preferred option to be able to entirely disable combos and have the ability to simply have my melee weapons default to their old combo-less quick attack.

Edited by Badgerlad
Wrote "stance-less" where I meant "combo-less"
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Quote

What are you smoking? New system is so much better....

Its less smooth and quick melee now forces the stances as said in the posts before. The biggest issue imo is the forcing of the stances.

Edited by fox_news
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1 minute ago, JLMomo said:

I feel the new system is better if you are primarily focusing on fire arms at the time, or if you adore the stances on the weapons and not just the way quick melee worked, or if your weapon didn't rely on block combos to really shine, or if you wanted to block in the first place [ Rage ] style builds. Or abilities they relied on blocking to really make such of such IE. Guard Derision or Electromagnetic shielding. Both of what require me to control when I block to effectively make use of such and help my allies out. Something I liked doing to help lower level players out. 

The new auto block system also has an issue where it seeks priority to the block at a lot of times, such as the Redeemers shot. Meaning I am able to be shot far more before I actually get such shot out. Forcing me to instead just use my gun, to what defeats the purpose of the whole theme of the weapon.

Over all I believe the new system has a lot of /ifs/ that need to come together for the thing to work well, and sadly if your a melee player and barely wanting to use your gun it is biased against you.

Fair enough.

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Just now, JLMomo said:

I feel the new system is better if you are primarily focusing on fire arms at the time, or if you adore the stances on the weapons and not just the way quick melee worked, or if your weapon didn't rely on block combos to really shine, or if you wanted to block in the first place [ Rage ] style builds. Or abilities they relied on blocking to really make such of such IE. Guard Derision or Electromagnetic shielding. Both of what require me to control when I block to effectively make use of such and help my allies out. Something I liked doing to help lower level players out. 

The new auto block system also has an issue where it seeks priority to the block at a lot of times, such as the Redeemers shot. Meaning I am able to be shot far more before I actually get such shot out. Forcing me to instead just use my gun, to what defeats the purpose of the whole theme of the weapon.

Over all I believe the new system has a lot of /ifs/ that need to come together for the thing to work well, and sadly if your a melee player and barely wanting to use your gun it is biased against you.

thank you JLMomo, he obviously doesn't melee alot. at least some good players out there can openly admit that it isn't the best move for melee players.

 

Lots of unnoticed feedback here as well, I think its only fair they also get an audience.

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1 minute ago, SilviaS12 said:

thank you JLMomo, he obviously doesn't melee alot. at least some good players out there can openly admit that it isn't the best move for melee players.

 

Lots of unnoticed feedback here as well, I think its only fair they also get an audience.

I do, just mostly quick melee and slide. Maybe keep block combos and make only left click to go back to gun mode.

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Just now, ZuroTheEvil said:

I do, just mostly quick melee and slide. Maybe keep block combos and make only left click to go back to gun mode.

I actually like this idea. Make it so click once and maybe hold for a second causes it to shoot, quick tap causes it to swap so you can then hit right click. Far more streamline than before, but still keeps blocking and the control of such to the player.

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15 minutes ago, Badgerlad said:

but it really would be my preferred option to be able to entirely disable combos and have the ability to simply have my melee weapons default to their old stanceless quick attack.

Just a small correction because I see people saying this a lot. Stanceless is not the same as combo-less. Most stances have their own unique combo-less attack (what used to be quick melee), including stanceless. For instance you can't simply unequip your polearm stance to do that fluid polearm quick melee attack, stanceless polearm attacks are a series of poking thrusts. The old polearm quick melee attack that most of us are missing now is the combo-less attack of the Shimmering Blight and Bleeding Willow stances (they're one of the exceptions that share the same combo-less attack). 

Edited by Apav
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Just now, ZuroTheEvil said:

I do, just mostly quick melee and slide. Maybe keep block combos and make only left click to go back to gun mode.

then whether the system was new or old, it does not affect your playing style in the slightest. that is JLMomo's point, so the previous guy is not smoking anything, some of us like you may have been playing for so many years, and some of us well maybe quite a lot of us are hardcore melee users. So all in all try not to be or come off as sounding a bit selfish, this is very rough for us melee style players.

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Just now, fox_news said:

Another issue i just noticed is that you can't take our your melee weapon without swinging it first.

that is one of my major issues, its so lack luster and feels like an unfinished android cheaply designed game due to that and even worse with auto block, a game that plays the game for you.

Edited by SilviaS12
addendum
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And another. When you have one of your gear out (i.e. mining equipment) you can no longer quick melee. It forces you out of your gear mode

 

Edit: Just right click and it took me back

Edited by fox_news
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3 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

that is one of my major issues, its so lack luster and feels like an unfinished android cheaply designed game due to that.

I do agree this is annoying. Pressing E should just switch you to melee mode without an attack and same for switching to gun mode.

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19 minutes ago, Apav said:

Just a small correction because I see people saying this a lot. Stanceless is not the same as combo-less. Most stances have their own unique combo-less attack (what used to be quick melee), including stanceless. For instance you can't simply unequip your polearm stance to do that fluid polearm quick melee attack, stanceless polearm attacks are a series of poking thrusts. The old polearm quick melee attack that most of us are missing now is the combo-less attack of the Shimmering Blight and Bleeding Willow stances (they're one of the exceptions that share the same combo-less attack). 

Thanks, you're right I did in fact mean combo-less. Edited my post.

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I maintain my earlier position that in all aspects except for the addition of diagonal slam attacks and the visual/sound FX improvements; the new melee is a clumsy, half-self-performed downgrade over the earlier system. We can't melee exclusively, we can't get melee out without swinging it first, and despite today's earlier hotfix, blocking is now a clumsy toggle that stays continuously active unless you hit RMB again, as opposed to being held like it was before. All stance combos have been turned janky and awkward, we're forced into using our melee weapons in synch with our guns when I'd really prefer to aim and use them separately, and to add insult to injury the shooting of this "improved" system interrupts even exalted melee weapons. Nothing destroys the satisfying feeling of rampage Hysteria used to have more than the fact that if don't tap melee often enough, I resume randomly shooting my Aksomati. Restore the old separation of primary, secondary, and melee weapons; and if you really want the system to feel "more streamlined", than make toggling between weapon types with F key faster-acting than it was before (with tapping just cycling through all three) and give quick-melee attacks  better range, animations, and synchronization with shooting instead of removing melee mode altogether.

If you were able to patch the years-old delay before sprinting truly began when using left shift, then you can certainly manage to reprogram a faster toggle; instead of gutting the entire melee system to hand us an awkward, uninteresting, forcibly-fused-with-our-gunplay mess. I practically expect DE to announce the removal of the combo counter and its bonuses at this point. Quit treating the player base like we're all Devil May Cry players, let alone actually the sort who enjoy that franchise. When I heard of improvements to melee with a third system, I expected stat improvements to useless weapons like Fang Prime, and the development of stances that were more brutal and controlled in their animations as opposed to the usual overt flourish; I did not seek to have patched in, or even remotely desire, the removal of everything that actually made melee enjoyable. 

To this end, I took to Captura, with only various melee weapons equipped, to visualize my utter lack of desire to keep the supposedly "IMPROVED" system in-game.

7IvY3sN.jpg1gv9pTA.jpg6mGt2PF.jpgwXuLFz7.jpg75kmAQl.jpg

This is the extent of my frustrations as can best be described by text and self-made image. But I quite genuinely want to know: WHO thought the new system was a good idea?

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Not a fan of these changes. The aimed slams are good, the new vfx are good, just... The swapping between weapons is horrid. I can't express how much I dislike it.

If I want to change what weapon I'm using, I have to take an entirely separate action rather than just 'swap weapons'. It's like we've gone back in time to 1.0 where Quick Melee was Only Melee. Also your toggle to use M1 for melee attacks is wonky and absolutely does not gel with the rest of the system you've designed.

I don't want to have to swing my sword at nothing to pull it out ahead of time. I don't want to have to Aim and lurch my damn screen forward to swap back to my gun. I don't like not being able to block when I say so, or not being able to glide with my melee out. I appreciate the INTENT, but I feel like this is a misstep. Why did we need to do this rather than just speeding up the animations for weaponswitching? Hell, switching between Primary and Secondary is still as slow as ever! Aren't these three weapon types meant to be EQUAL?

I'm absolutely sure I could have expressed my feelings here better, but at the end of the day, I don't like it. I enjoyed having Quick Melee. I enjoyed being able to Full Equip my melee weapon and THAT be what I was doing. Now just trying to get around with gliding puts me back in gun mode.

I don't like it.

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Overall the new melee has potential, but for me one huge drawback. The combination of auto-blocking, toggled channel and the fact the channeling key can't be on a mouse click have ruined Excalibur EB life strike. He gets through WAY too much energy to be playable. So, grrr from me because that was my favorite build to play.

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A case for Aim being Manual Block:

Currently (Melee 2.9997) there are 3 ways to switch back to Gun from Melee mode.

  1. Shoot, your weapon
  2. Aim, your weapon
  3. Press Switch Weapon

We don't really need this many ways to Switch back to Gun combat. This is a strong case for putting Block back on Right-Click. This allows manual blocking and Block-Gliding.

I will again advocate for a "Dramatic Draw" by holding down Switch Weapon for 1.5 to 1.75 seconds. I would also advocate for a "Dramatic Draw" weapon to function like Melee-Only equip. Left-Mouse Attack, Right-Mouse Block, Middle-Mouse Channel Toggle. And the way back out of "Dramatic Draw" is to press Switch Weapon.

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18 hours ago, vFlitz said:

Making void dash not affect enemies when it causes no movement is hugely detrimental to operator gameplay. Why should we be forced to jump all around if we want to make use of the utility/crowd control abilities that void dash can provide?

I don't see why it's necessary when you already put a cooldown on Magus Revert, which kills the combination that you didn't want to be used against Eidolons. If you're determined to go through with this, then I'll ask this instead: Why does a dash which doesn't make me move, doesn't affect enemies, pretty much doesn't do anything, still eats my energy?

The Void Dash change certainly needs to be looked at.

Either cut the energy cost, or have energy consumed based on the distance covered, or revert the change. This feels like a kneejerk change like them previously applying LoS mechanic to Trinity's EV and Mag's old Polarize in response to players powerleveling on old Viver.

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Please please please please PLEASE bring the option to quick melee back, I almost never used stances before and now it takes forever to melee attack anything, I know you wanted a better way to switch from firing to melee but this just makes melee impossible to use, period. Please at least bring the option to use quick melee back. Having a system that I enjoyed so much be changed like this without any way of fixing it is incredibly frustrating, I don't know why the old system was a problem in the first place and now I'm not even going to bother with melee weapons at all.  

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23 hours ago, SeidronDaer said:

You can uninstall the stance mod to disable the combos

 

Yes... and lose like 10+ capacity. As it is however this is my only option to use quick melee again, so I guess I'll take it

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15 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Just turn on the option to use fire/mouse 1 for Melee. It's right there in controls, a bit down from melee auto aim. Blocking is automated now, so there's no need for a button for it.

There is need for a button for it because auto blocking is terrible.

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