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AnoDarkrai

Patch 24.4.0 - Mesa's Peacemaker not working anymore as intended

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Hello.

There are lots of valid points from almost every one who has posted in this thread. Except Bear of course. Arcanes and especially the hardest ones to get / more expensive ones are part of the endgame of warframe. This bug that you don't want to fix and turned into another thing you put under the rug (hence the it's no bug it was intended meme) is not cool and I really like the community pointing out that we don't want it. Considering new game releases and the recent moderator / warframe partner scandal I don't think warframe is going through the right path at the moment. This is not a minor issue, so address it properly please.

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Honestly, removing arcane interactions with exalted weapons equals a *@##$-slap exalted weapon frames to the face, like what the #*!%, DE!?

First, you fixed to make them work with the exalted weapons, but now you're removing it with no clear-cut documentation in the patch note whatsoever, like what the #*!%!? Exalted weapon users, and even nuking frames, are already screwed in Arbitrations thanks to no-ability-nor-weapon-but-nuke-everything-AOE-Staticor drones, and now you're screwing them further!?

Might as well add self-damage to Staticors then, DE!? Because that's just how you do balance, and then become like Anthem where no fun is allowed, ever!

Oh, and add self-damage to Spores, Peacemakers, Discharges, Exalted Blade, Mallet, etc., make Energy Vampire drains everyone's energy, make Vauban's abilities cost all energy while have a fixed range of 1 centimeter, etc., because this is DE's #*!%ing balance!

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3 minutes ago, Tillo_ said:

Hello.

There are lots of valid points from almost every one who has posted in this thread. Except Bear of course. Arcanes and especially the hardest ones to get / more expensive ones are part of the endgame of warframe. This bug that you don't want to fix and turned into another thing you put under the rug (hence the it's no bug it was intended meme) is not cool and I really like the community pointing out that we don't want it. Considering new game releases and the recent moderator / warframe partner scandal I don't think warframe is going through the right path at the moment. This is not a minor issue, so address it properly please.

Despite the problems with melee 3.0 and Nightwave, the new community event, and other content being added, I feel these things are on the right track, trying to make general improvements to the game, but it's two steps forward, two steps back, all the time, the moderating issue, the constant nerfs, really just frustrates me so much.

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25 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

Despite the problems with melee 3.0 and Nightwave, the new community event, and other content being added, I feel these things are on the right track, trying to make general improvements to the game, but it's two steps forward, two steps back, all the time, the moderating issue, the constant nerfs, really just frustrates me so much.

We all know for a fact each warframe has their Strengths and Weaknesses, one more than another. Mesa isn't the best for everything nor was she ever. Instead of making a warframe straigth up linear/less diverse to build up to (nerf in that manner) DE should buff the weaker Warframes instead who are literally bad at almost everything (I'm looking at you Vauban 💀)

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22 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Peacemaker is already a strong ability and the use of Arcane Velocity simply turned that up to 11. While this change was not intended, after some internal back and forth we have made the decision to keep this change. We feel that the two combined makes the already top tier Peacemaker over the top. It still works with Peacemaker, Peacemaker simply cannot trigger it.

We will be editing the patch notes to reflect this.
 

13 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

What Kherae said seems to be true.  Was messing around with Excalibur's exalted blade and couldn't get it to proc arcane ultimatum, I can't get Ivara's Artemis bow to proc arcane rage anymore. You have to now turn off your exalted weapon, proc the arcane with normal weapons and then turn it back on, every single time you want the arcane to proc. Every exalted weapon user who uses arcanes to buff their weapon got affected by this change. 

That's a bit exaggerating, but since an already niche Arcanes hits the rock bottom... How about we just split all the existing Arcanes into different classes at this point and give a weapon-dedicated Arcane slot (one for all three weapon classes), eh?

Warframe/Powers-related Arcanes:

  • Aegis
  • Agility
  • Avenger
  • Barrier
  • Consequence
  • Deflection
  • Energize
  • Eruption
  • Grace
  • Guardian
  • Healing
  • Ice
  • Nullifier
  • Phantasm
  • Pulse
  • Resistance
  • Trickery
  • Ultimatum
  • Victory
  • Warmth

Weapons-related Arcanes:

  • Acceleration
  • Arachne
  • Awakening
  • Fury
  • Momentum
  • Precision
  • Rage
  • Strike
  • Tempo
  • Velocity

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9 hours ago, TotallyLagging said:

I'm sure this has been brought up before and I haven't read the previous pages, but:

  • Fixed Arcanes working inconsistently on Exalted Abilities (Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, etc) or Weapon Abilities (Titania’s Razorwing, etc).

So which one is it? Was Arcanes working with Exalted Weapons a bug or not? Especially when you specifically referred to it as a 'fix' just a year ago.

Also, the butterflies from Razorwing can still proc Arcanes, but Dex Pixia can't. So where's the consistency with this 'bug'?

I'm trying my best to be constructive but I've got nothing. Seriously, make up your god damn mind. This honestly feels like they just cashed in on Mesa's PA so they're now comfortable with nerfing her and affecting all Exalted Weapons in the process. And I sure hope that ain't the case.

Seriously my thoughts exactly.

DE should make up their mind with Arcanes and Exalted weapons already instead flip-floping around like that :/

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This change is really terrible. I have nothing to add that wasn't already said.

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I .... personally felt like I must post here :<

As Mesa-main (64% on Mesa (40%-ish) + Mesa Prime (20%-ish)) ..... Loki 20%-ish (starter frame, and passive levelling for Companion / Equipments on Spy-mission) ..... and I think Titania is next my highest % ....

It felt all researching, spending, forma-ing, testing, and maximizing Mesa + Titania .... all centering around 2x Arcane Velocity (along with buying mods that "might" work and I enjoyed) .... the satisfaction just went poof ☹️

To DE, please consider getting Peacemaker (or I heard all exalted) to trigger Arcane back.

As far as saying Peacemaker's too OP with Arcane Velocity, I don't think it's so OP. Peacemaker already have it's own limitation (requires line-of-sight, stationary, can't attack specific target / inside bubbles, and won't target capture / some bosses) .....

Also, due to irl things, I only have few Frames, and usually going solo (4-5 years to reach MR12). Can't farm those that need party / relatively-specific frame / build, so I just charge plat, and bought from those who can farm them. And before people ask, Forma is among those I bought mostly with plat, than building (due to irl things).

Those charged plats aren't cheap, and it's all for satisfaction from maximizing a few select frames that I enjoy playing :<

Oh, and I believe Peacemaker also still doesn't trigger Growing Power anymore.

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On 2019-03-08 at 7:03 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Peacemaker is already a strong ability and the use of Arcane Velocity simply turned that up to 11. While this change was not intended, after some internal back and forth we have made the decision to keep this change. We feel that the two combined makes the already top tier Peacemaker over the top. It still works with Peacemaker, Peacemaker simply cannot trigger it.

 

Sure, why not nerf Mesa to the point of uselessness when you are already collected money from Prime vault sales

I came back to warframe after many months of break only to lose my wish to play again. Meh.

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On 2019-03-12 at 11:44 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Peacemaker is already a strong ability and the use of Arcane Velocity simply turned that up to 11. While this change was not intended, after some internal back and forth we have made the decision to keep this change. We feel that the two combined makes the already top tier Peacemaker over the top. It still works with Peacemaker, Peacemaker simply cannot trigger it.

We will be editing the patch notes to reflect this.
 

I have no words that accurately my disappointment in calling a detrimental bug a feature. Yes we've had bugs be called features before, prime example being a certain sword skin and the Zenistar, but these bugs have always added something not taken way. The skin bug added an absurdity that then added many laughs that still continue to happen quite sometime after the "feature" was introduced. This "feature" though? To mimic what has already been said, this isn't a nerf, Velocity can still affect Peacemaker, you just need to drop Peacemaker every 6 seconds to pop off a crit with something and then press 4 again to re-enter Peacemaker to resume what your Mesa was designed to do: shoot her guns stupidly fast. This "feature", quite simply put, is nothing more than an inconvenience.

And just because I do not, for one moment, believe this is an intentional "feature" and not just an unwillingness to try and fix it and break 37 other things:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/925435-shrine-of-the-eidolon-hotfix-22134/
2nd on the list of fixes:

  • Fixed Arcanes working inconsistently on Exalted Abilities (Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, etc) or Weapon Abilities (Titania’s Razorwing, etc).

My question then is: can we expect Arcane Velocity to eventually not work at all for Peacemaker? Because I would call sidearms not being able to proc Velocity yet still be able to be affected by Velocity inconsistent." But Aesith" some will say "a single exalted secondary not proccing Velocity isn't inconsistent, it's just setting a precedent." To that I give you Titania's Razorwing with its Dex Pixia secondary weapons that proc and are affected by Velocity. Now, I personally do not know if the Dex Pixia are still affected by arcanes or if they too gained bugs from Buried Debts like all the other exalteds, however they did proc and use Velocity before 24.4.0

I'm not upset about the firerate loss to Peacemakers from not being able to naturally proc Velocity. What upsets me with this change is:

  1. DE is very blatantly rewriting a hotfix that was well received.
  2. DE is taking a step backwards from their recent trend of streamlining things and are purposefully adding in inconvenience where there doesn't need to be any.
  3. As others have said, Mesa's useful arcanes have dwindled down to the standard of pick two from Energize, Grace, or Guardian. And I'm not even sure Guardian is that useful.
  4. It does nothing aside from the inconvenience. I can just drop out of Peacemaker every 5 seconds, refresh Velocity, refresh my reticule size, get an EV from Trinity, and go back to clearing the entire room. Or I'll drop Velocity and toss on another firerate mod for probably a net increase to dps.

edit: To clarify, I am aware that arcanes are bugged on all exalteds right now, however Bear has only specifically mentioned Mesa as being unintentional but now intentional so there is reason to believe that the other exalteds will be fixed in time.

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5 minutes ago, Aesith said:

To that I give you Titania's Razorwing with its Dex Pixia secondary weapons that proc and are affected by Velocity. Now, I personally do not know if the Dex Pixia are still affected by arcanes or if they too gained bugs from Buried Debts like all the other exalteds, however they did proc and use Velocity before 24.4.0

No they also got nerfed with this, they work the same way as Mesa's 4, along with Excalibur, Wukong, Valkyr, etc, exalted weapons can benefit from arcanes, but not proc them.

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Just now, Sylonus said:

No they also got nerfed with this, they work the same way as Mesa's 4, along with Excalibur, Wukong, Valkyr, etc, exalted weapons can benefit from arcanes, but not proc them.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. All exalteds' interactions with arcanes are a buggy mess atm and Bear only specified Mesa as a permanent thing.

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11 minutes ago, Aesith said:

I have no words that accurately my disappointment in calling a detrimental bug a feature. Yes we've had bugs be called features before, prime example being a certain sword skin and the Zenistar, but these bugs have always added something not taken way. The skin bug added an absurdity that then added many laughs that still continue to happen quite sometime after the "feature" was introduced. This "feature" though? To mimic what has already been said, this isn't a nerf, Velocity can still affect Peacemaker, you just need to drop Peacemaker every 6 seconds to pop off a crit with something and then press 4 again to re-enter Peacemaker to resume what your Mesa was designed to do: shoot her guns stupidly fast. This "feature", quite simply put, is nothing more than an inconvenience.

And just because I do not, for one moment, believe this is an intentional "feature" and not just an unwillingness to try and fix it and break 37 other things:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/925435-shrine-of-the-eidolon-hotfix-22134/
2nd on the list of fixes:

  • Fixed Arcanes working inconsistently on Exalted Abilities (Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, etc) or Weapon Abilities (Titania’s Razorwing, etc).

My question then is: can we expect Arcane Velocity to eventually not work at all for Peacemaker? Because I would call sidearms not being able to proc Velocity yet still be able to be affected by Velocity inconsistent." But Aesith" some will say "a single exalted secondary not proccing Velocity isn't inconsistent, it's just setting a precedent." To that I give you Titania's Razorwing with its Dex Pixia secondary weapons that proc and are affected by Velocity. Now, I personally do not know if the Dex Pixia are still affected by arcanes or if they too gained bugs from Buried Debts like all the other exalteds, however they did proc and use Velocity before 24.4.0

I'm not upset about the firerate loss to Peacemakers from not being able to naturally proc Velocity. What upsets me with this change is:

  1. DE is very blatantly rewriting a hotfix that was well received.
  2. DE is taking a step backwards from their recent trend of streamlining things and are purposefully adding in inconvenience where there doesn't need to be any.
  3. As others have said, Mesa's useful arcanes have dwindled down to the standard of pick two from Energize, Grace, or Guardian. And I'm not even sure Guardian is that useful.
  4. It does nothing aside from the inconvenience. I can just drop out of Peacemaker every 5 seconds, refresh Velocity, refresh my reticule size, get an EV from Trinity, and go back to clearing the entire room. Or I'll drop Velocity and toss on another firerate mod for probably a net increase to dps.

 

ALL of my frames have the same setup now and it's really disappointing that we have had to go to this level when me and countless others have been pushed aside because we spent plat on arcanes with little to no feedback as to why ALL exalted abilities need to be this way because of Mesa being a little to strong. So I sit and wounder why isn't this being talked about more and why are we being punished for following the meta when adding different arcanes was breaking the meta of energize and guardian. 

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Justo ahora, Aesith dijo:

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. All exalteds' interactions with arcanes are a buggy mess atm and Bear only specified Mesa as a permanent thing.

That's the main problem here. The lies.

This is a bug, it was never intended that exalted weapons would not proc arcanes anymore. It was not in the patch notes. When Bear consulted with the DE team he came back with another lie about Mesa's 4 being too great, not knowing that this is happening to all exalted weapons. This is what pisses me off the most. Something happens out of the blue and instead of fixing it, DE lies about it.

That's what I meant about the path Warframe is going through and comparing it to the moderator / warframe partner scandal. Instead of looking at the hard evidence, investigate and make a decission or action no, they attacked the guy who made the complaint. So instead of fixing what was never intended to be, they take all of us for granted and fool us.

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8 minutes ago, Tillo_ said:

That's the main problem here. The lies.

This is a bug, it was never intended that exalted weapons would not proc arcanes anymore. It was not in the patch notes. When Bear consulted with the DE team he came back with another lie about Mesa's 4 being too great, not knowing that this is happening to all exalted weapons. This is what pisses me off the most. Something happens out of the blue and instead of fixing it, DE lies about it.

That's what I meant about the path Warframe is going through and comparing it to the moderator / warframe partner scandal. Instead of looking at the hard evidence, investigate and make a decission or action no, they attacked the guy who made the complaint. So instead of fixing what was never intended to be, they take all of us for granted and fool us.

Give this man a Beer.

 

:clem: Grakata? 

 

Yes Clem, the whole crate!

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This is neither the time nor place to discuss the mods and what DE has or hasn't done with them, doing so will only serve to lock this topic. All I'll say is that is a PR nightmare should've never gone as far as it did.

We just got a mainline update alongside melee 3.0 still being worked on and released in parts, alongside railjack slated for release this year, alongside whatever else DE has on their metaphorical (but still over-full) plate. I do not believe that all of the current non-interactions between arcanes and exalteds is intended, whether they will retcon them like Mesa is beyond my ability to say.

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I’m not a fan of unintentional nerfs. Not to mention a lot of players grinded or paid lots of plat for arcane velocity for that very reason. Now I myself don’t see the need to use arcane velocity. It had a niche use. It was a way for late game players to add more fire rate to her ult without having to use up a mod slot for it.

are you going to make arcanes that grant additional armor away from Rhinos using them with their augments to get tons of more iron skin? Are you going to take away crit chance enhancing arcanes from warframe abilities that can crit? Are you going to take away arcane barrier and aegis from hildryn, the one frame that can make use of them?

If this can happen to Mesa and Titania, then of course I’m worried it can happen to other frames. And I don’t want to see that happen. Don’t get rid of niche arcane uses. A lot of us have worked hard to get some of these arcanes and paired them well with warframes that make full use of them. Don’t start doing this. Please for the love of god don’t.

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On 2019-03-12 at 11:44 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Peacemaker is already a strong ability and the use of Arcane Velocity simply turned that up to 11. While this change was not intended, after some internal back and forth we have made the decision to keep this change. We feel that the two combined makes the already top tier Peacemaker over the top. It still works with Peacemaker, Peacemaker simply cannot trigger it.

We will be editing the patch notes to reflect this.
 

Why do I farm anything if everything good gets nerfed? You really think you needed to tone down something that takes 20 arcanes and about a dozen forma?

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Yeah, this is quite a mess. Arcanes were "Fixed" to work on exalted weapons a while back and people enjoyed this for months, if not years...

Now someone reports the bug that arcanes no longer work on Mesa, which prompts DE to go all "well, peacemaker were too strong", so we'll make the bug a "Feature", unaware that the "bug" actually affects all frames with exalted weapons.

And now since DE talked about things being "consistent" across the board, chances are we're gonna see the global nerf to all exalted weapon stay because hey, let's be consistent here...

Just revert things back like they were before. Let your fanbase use the arcanes they spent time and paid money for on the frames they like . It's not like it breaks the game or anything...

Besides, do you expect your users to report bugs and exploit to you if you keep doing bad decisions (like vivergate) and nerfing everything when someone was simply asking to fix a bug... Or outright banning great youtubers like Noobshowtek because they showed a leveling exploit in one video after years of loyal services and plat purchases, or banning everyone that entered a baro relay when they should not have a while back. Let us have faith that when we report a bug , exploit or issue, it will be "Fixed" in a matter that respects our user.

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Bad change to keep. I love it when I spend platinum on something because I know it works a certain way and that certain way gets changed unintendedly but a back & forth at DE keeps the change as a feature. 👍

Go the extra mile and reword Arcane Strike to where frames can't activate it with their abilities anymore and make it melee-strike only to really seal the grave.

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So, basicaly, I just bought 2 maxed velocity with platinum one week ago to go with my Mesa P to get this ?

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30 minutes ago, Totterson said:

Bad change to keep. I love it when I spend platinum on something because I know it works a certain way and that certain way gets changed unintendedly but a back & forth at DE keeps the change as a feature. 👍

Go the extra mile and reword Arcane Strike to where frames can't activate it with their abilities anymore and make it melee-strike only to really seal the grave.

Yeah seriously how many times do we have to do this dance with new content breaking old content, and you not telling us DE? Update your existing content before releasing a bunch of crap, and that's what it is (look at all those magus's that look fun but there's no room to use). Then you can actually give Scott the ability to go back through and nerf things intentionally and update their descriptions while doing so. Just like the good old days where we actually knew when and if things got nerfed (y'know those crazy days where you actually bloody told us) *incoherent sobs from the other room from a synoid gammacor fan* (Also screw your recaptcha thingymajigger took me like 10 mins to get past with my S#&amp;&#036;e internet)

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Gotta be honest. Was on a break from warframe (titania main here), was playing devil may cry 5 non stop for the entire week when I logged in yesterday to see what was new in warframe.

Jumped in with titania for a mission, mostly to test out the new melee, and when I was using razorwing (my build relies heavily on arcane velocity since I got no attack speed mods on dex pixia, just crit, damage and ele mods) wasn't proccing arcane velocity anymore. Only my razorflies were.I noticed that, left the mission, stared at my monitor for a while and thought to myself:

 

"They'll fix it in no time I hope. just 1 more bug to the long list of titania bugs... but I ain't playin' till it's fixed. Titania just ain't fun without arcane velocity on her. And i'll have to completely overhaul my dex pixia build and deal LESS damage because of that."

 

So I logged out. Just to find out today that DE has decided to make this a permanent thing. So right now I'm on a long break from warframe again and I'll eventually return when wisp gets released and I'll probably main wisp instead. Not gonna bother with titania. Several hundred hours on her, down the drain due to that awful QoL nerf. Titania isn't the best already, with too many niches and too many bugs, and DE goes and spits on her grave. Hell no, I'm out.

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DE I have to say this is very disappointing to me. I have progressed as far as I have because of these other players who figure out how to do these amazing builds. A friend and I worked so hard to take down Lephantis. We kept running out of ammo and lives. We struggled so hard. Then we finally accepted help from others and watched them take out Lephantis like he was nothing. Our jaws dropped in amazement and we both said "I want to be able to do that" It gave us something to work towards. One day I was doing a T4 Defense, They were hard and frustrating. A friend brought a new friend with them who had a banshee. I wasn't sure how things would go but I figured I would watch and see. I was told Banshee would be doing all the damage we would just need to support them. We made it to round 15 and this defense felt more like a T2. It did get harder but the further we went. This gave me so much motivation to make banshee and to figure out how to build an amazing banshee that would be jaw-dropping. I remember when I first took Banshee with a team to Draco, They asked who would be the Main damage dealer. So many left when I said banshee, but some were curious and wanted to see what banshee could do. I had several people after a mission on Draco say they were going to build banshee right then. When players see others do these amazing things it gives them something to work towards, something to look forward to and something they are fine investing money into. But when you take these things out after many of them have farmed or spent real money on, It makes them not really want to put any more time, effort or money into the game. I have worked my but off to get to MR 25 I would be at MR 26 if the open worlds didn't make me feel so motion sick. I put money into the game as I wanted to play banshee but she was ugly to me. I bought the deluxe skin so playing her would be more enjoyable. I have clan members who have put a lot of work into their stuff and it makes me want to work towards being able to achieve what they have. I like helping others work towards being amazing. If a Low MR wanted help to work towards what I have achieved then awesome. Nothing really feels better in the game to go from looking at the other players like they are gods to feeling like you are the god yourself. To be good at Warframe its more than just skill. It is time, effort and some serious thought of how things work together. It is so much rewarding when helping each other. Otherwise, you hit mr 25 or mr 26 and have no reason or desire to keep playing or putting money into the game.

DE Seriously think about this and how it is valued by the players. those who have earned all the Arcanes and those still working towards them. 

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This is the only change that's been made since I began playing that's made me consider quitting.  Weapon Arcanes were already rarely used in favor of a tiny meta of Guardian, Energize, and sometimes Grace- and now you've bugged Arcane proccing and then when the community reported it, painted it as reverting a "FIX" you made a year ago.  If this was in the patch notes, I'd still be annoyed, but this?  This is a slap in the face.

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