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As of mainline update 24.4.1 - Ivara can no longer bullet jump while being in prowl when playing solo/host mode only. DE can we please have the bug/feature come back?

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-03-08 at 9:05 PM, BlindStalker said:

Video here:

 

@[DE]Saske

 

On 2019-03-09 at 7:28 AM, (PS4)xtharbadx said:

..

 

On 2019-03-09 at 7:36 AM, AtrusStrix said:

.. 

It was never intentional. I remember the original release. It was only meant to work on walking. When it was first released I actually found it quite weird that she was allowed to do that since the devstream at the time had clearly mentioned she was not. 

I've always played her as she was meant to. Never really bullet jumping so it's kinda funny that the bug got fixed finally. 

Edited by Arniox

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3 hours ago, Arniox said:

 

 

It was never intentional. I remember the original release. It was only meant to work on walking. When it was first released I actually found it quite weird that she was allowed to do that since the devstream at the time had clearly mentioned she was not. 

I've always played her as she was meant to. Never really bullet jumping so it's kinda funny that the bug got fixed finally. 

The key is that it was only /really/ working properly when you weren't moving at all, and going mostly vertical, which makes sense for a lot of the rooms.

The issue arises from two things: A. various things you do can cause, at random, a bullet jump - getting off wires, jumping /after/ crouching has ended, jumping after rolling or walking off some ledges etc.
B: the description given by bear is that /parkour/ /should/ break it. That means just everything should break it, not just the one thing that /actually made sense and has been constantly re-added to Ivara over NUMEROUS breaks of it with hotfixes and such.
IF it had been a bug, they would've removed it years ago, told everybody they were removing it, and not brought it back each time they accidentally broke it.

It's a feature, and should remain a feature.

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16 hours ago, symonia said:

The key is that it was only /really/ working properly when you weren't moving at all, and going mostly vertical, which makes sense for a lot of the rooms.

The issue arises from two things: A. various things you do can cause, at random, a bullet jump - getting off wires, jumping /after/ crouching has ended, jumping after rolling or walking off some ledges etc.
B: the description given by bear is that /parkour/ /should/ break it. That means just everything should break it, not just the one thing that /actually made sense and has been constantly re-added to Ivara over NUMEROUS breaks of it with hotfixes and such.
IF it had been a bug, they would've removed it years ago, told everybody they were removing it, and not brought it back each time they accidentally broke it.

It's a feature, and should remain a feature.

It's possible they never really knew about it so whenever they 'fixed' or unfixed it, it was totally accidental. 

Also, I've never gotten myself into a situation where I 'accidentally' bullet jump... When have you ever? 

Lastly, if you do break prowl, just pop it back on again. It doesn't matter too much. Of play the missions correctly and undo your prowl when you need to. You just need to know when to activate it and when not to. 

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8 minutes ago, Arniox said:

It's possible they never really knew about it so whenever they 'fixed' or unfixed it, it was totally accidental. 

Also, I've never gotten myself into a situation where I 'accidentally' bullet jump... When have you ever? 

Lastly, if you do break prowl, just pop it back on again. It doesn't matter too much. Of play the missions correctly and undo your prowl when you need to. You just need to know when to activate it and when not to. 

They very likely knew, but maybe weren't able to fix it efficiently, since this would be a lower priority bug. It sounds like the original bug mostly existed in solo/host, so my suspicion is moving more things to client-side this update allowed it to be fixed finally.

I kind of disagree on "just" popping it back on again not mattering too much. Recasting Prowl manually is a much larger energy expenditure overall (especially if your build leans towards ability duration over efficiency, making it better to stay in Prowl rather than frequently recast).

16 hours ago, symonia said:

various things you do can cause, at random, a bullet jump - getting off wires, jumping /after/ crouching has ended, jumping after rolling or walking off some ledges etc.

I've never managed to accidentally bullet jump save for when I was stuck underneath something that was low enough that I could not stand up, but that's more my own error usually because I bullet jumped into a bad corner or under some sort of a lip. If it's a frequent occurrence, that sounds almost like a hardware input issue, especially if it seems to be "at random".

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Posted (edited)

PLEASE undo this change.  Frog-hopping was a fun way to work around Ivara's limited mobility, and felt rather iconic.  It certainly didn't make her overpowered.

Edited by DJ_Zephyr
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On 2019-03-09 at 8:27 PM, Arniox said:

Really? 

#*!% me that is way longer than expected... It feels like yesterday wtf... 

Ye, huntress turned 3 just this past December. She's pretty mature now. I'm wondering if her kit might be showing a bit of age. But I'm not pulling out the word "rework" because she still has plenty to function with (and that's a different discussion anyways), it's just having to adapt a lot now with so many changes to still make her reasonably viable on newer content. 

I really do hope however, that DE keeps to their own schedule and releases Ivara Prime on Dec. 2019.

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Posted (edited)

Oh wow. I'm more ticked off that the change wasn't in the patch notes (Why are the controversial nerfs always left out "accidentally"?)  than from the actual change. Maybe Ivara players need to use dashwire arrow to get to their destination instead now? I don't mind this change much. Ivara was dominating the stealth niche too much. Loki and Ash live again!

I still use Ivara for vault missions on Lua, but thats about it. Too slow otherwise... and that was before the bullet jump nerf. Although i get it, i don't think you were ever intended to be allowed to jump like that while "prowling". If you guys want a nice way to speed up ivara, the new rifle amalgam mod, dispatch overdrive, rush, armored agility all play pretty well with each other to make you walk faster than most frames run.

Edited by Skaleek

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On 2019-03-08 at 10:37 PM, [DE]Bear said:

This is an intentional change, it was missing from the patch notes, however.

The patch notes have been updated to reflect the change, but the initial intent is that Parkour should break invisibility granted by Prowl.

Please reconsider. Being unable to perform standing bullet jumps w/o losing Prowl really cripples the frame. 

Also, patch notes are incorrect, since they state that

Quote

3/8/19 Edit: Missing Notes

  • Fixed a long-standing issue with Ivara being able to remain cloaked while performing a Bullet Jump when using Prowl, while Solo or Host. Parkour is intended to break Prowl's cloak.

Whereas in reality, it had NOTHING to do with host/solo, it required you to be standing completely still before a bullet jump which was difficult as a Client. 

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Add another +1 here for reverting back to the sneak hopping of Teh Bunneh of Doom here... Seriously, it wasn't game breaking to leave it in if it were indeed a bug, and speaking as a player that only got into Ivara long after she gained that ability/feature, not having it now makes so many of the fun things Ivara could do far less fun. Sure, it's possible to complete spy missions without using stealh (after all, they can be done with pretty much any other frame), and yeah, you can do 'em without bullet jumping for the most part, but being able to leap over a grineer heavy gunner and slit 'em with a Covert Lethality almost immediately on landing behind them and moving off to the next target with any form of flow just can't reliably be done without a stealthed BJ.

It's a bit of a kick in the teeth to anyone who started Ivara in the last year or two, and are used to that ability, to have it taken away without any real justification. I could appreciate it if in some way it broke the game, but it is/was a nice bit of QOL that's turning me (and I can see a lot of other players) off using Ivara. I main her, sure, I do use other frames as and when I feel like it, but removing one of her fun aspects means that she'll soon be retired to that special hell reserved for frames that I only trot out for a single purpose (like, for me, Rhino only gets a loadout slot for running the Index).

To DE - please, PLEASE revert it back. Or at least prove to us how it's a game breaker that needed to be removed. At least if we have a proper reason for it. I mean, it's not like bullet jumping was actually intended in the first place, but you made it a permanent fixture. At least let us use it the way Ivara should be able to (from a stationary position - accidentally dropping Prowl by sliding or BJing while moving is a more than fair tradeoff)

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Say what you want, I think DE just got tired of it breaking and needing fixed every now and then so they finally decided to just outright remove it. Whether that's the case or not this is not okay, let the frog lady jump. Also it'd be nice if the new and ugly white "base" on her skirt tendril things was removed, the things are supposed to be ghostly and ethereal instead of ragged strips of brightly colored cloth right?

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On 2019-03-09 at 7:37 AM, [DE]Bear said:

This is an intentional change, it was missing from the patch notes, however.

The patch notes have been updated to reflect the change, but the initial intent is that Parkour should break invisibility granted by Prowl.

Sorry folks 😞

-Bear

But regular jumping doesn't break her stealth. Or combat rolling every half a second. Or ground slamming with Jay Kittag.

 

There are two very specific cases I use prowled bullet jumping:

1. Jumping up through spy laser grids, which now decloaks me and instafails the spy vault.

2. To jump around mushrooms trying to shoot a Sawgaw or hide for a good shot, which now also decloaks me and I lose perfect capture rating. 

2.5 I can't use operator dashing to get around in preservations because I have full unlock Zenurik on and void dashing kills all animals in proximity.

This "bug" has been a feature for two years. Why in the world would you flip the switch back now? Is there some sort of horrid game breaking thing someone done with it that we don't know? Do you want us to start using zipline arrows that much? (I use them, but they don't really go vertically do they). 

Please unbreak Ivara. This is nothing short of broken, not "intended functionality". Vast majority of cases of people wanting to prowl bullet jump is for the soloist crowd who go slow, like stealth and saving animals, which is a very niche group of players as is. We are not breaking game for anybody else. We just like to sneak.

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2 minutes ago, lexandritte said:

Is there some sort of horrid game breaking thing someone done with it that we don't know?

More like Loki fanbois got triggered. 😄  

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Before this "fix", this is how I would move with Ivara. Not just leap frogging, but actually pretty mobile .. as fast as most frames, except when walking of course ( but who walks anyways lol )

 

 

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19 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Ye, huntress turned 3 just this past December. She's pretty mature now. I'm wondering if her kit might be showing a bit of age. But I'm not pulling out the word "rework" because she still has plenty to function with (and that's a different discussion anyways), it's just having to adapt a lot now with so many changes to still make her reasonably viable on newer content. 

I really do hope however, that DE keeps to their own schedule and releases Ivara Prime on Dec. 2019.

Eh idk. She's extremely solo based. 

Although tbh if this game wants to cater to everyone, an almost completely solo frame is really good to have. 

If they rework her at all, they should keep the power of solo but allow her to also do just as well in public. 

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4 hours ago, Pythagoras3 said:

Say what you want, I think DE just got tired of it breaking and needing fixed every now and then so they finally decided to just outright remove it. Whether that's the case or not this is not okay, let the frog lady jump. Also it'd be nice if the new and ugly white "base" on her skirt tendril things was removed, the things are supposed to be ghostly and ethereal instead of ragged strips of brightly colored cloth right?

That's the only thing it could be.
Numerous times, they've broken it with a hotfix or update, and they've restored it, because it's a FEATURE.

You don't 'fix' FEATURES by removing them, that's a SOLID NERF

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On 2019-03-11 at 9:02 AM, Arniox said:

It's possible they never really knew about it so whenever they 'fixed' or unfixed it, it was totally accidental. 

Also, I've never gotten myself into a situation where I 'accidentally' bullet jump... When have you ever? 

Lastly, if you do break prowl, just pop it back on again. It doesn't matter too much. Of play the missions correctly and undo your prowl when you need to. You just need to know when to activate it and when not to. 

Ivara is a stealth frame, it's what she does. 
It's all she's meant to do.
She has augments that add to that a bit, but are only worth using in niche cases, on a niche frame.

Breaking her prowl makes so many vaults harder for her, when she's the dedicated frame for doing vaults. That makes absolutely no sense. 

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7 hours ago, symonia said:

Ivara is a stealth frame, it's what she does. 
It's all she's meant to do.
She has augments that add to that a bit, but are only worth using in niche cases, on a niche frame.

Breaking her prowl makes so many vaults harder for her, when she's the dedicated frame for doing vaults. That makes absolutely no sense. 

I've had no trouble with Ivara and I always played her with the original intention. Cancelled prowl manually when I needed to jump or parkour and then reactivate when I'm not. I find it almost amusing that so many people MASSIVELY relied on a bug...

It's really easy to play without that bug you know? Just have to get used to the fixed bug.

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28 minutes ago, Arniox said:

I've had no trouble with Ivara and I always played her with the original intention. Cancelled prowl manually when I needed to jump or parkour and then reactivate when I'm not. I find it almost amusing that so many people MASSIVELY relied on a bug...

It's really easy to play without that bug you know? Just have to get used to the fixed bug.

It's not a case of "relied on." It's a case of it being a part of her playstyle, and for the last few years effectively a part of her kit. If DE decided that bullet jumping was not how the game was intended to play (which it wasn't, it was a bug itself) and removed it, you'd probably feel the same way we Ivara players do right now. And would respond the same way to anyone that said "just get used to the fixed bug."

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Khromm said:

It's not a case of "relied on." It's a case of it being a part of her playstyle, and for the last few years effectively a part of her kit. If DE decided that bullet jumping was not how the game was intended to play (which it wasn't, it was a bug itself) and removed it, you'd probably feel the same way we Ivara players do right now. And would respond the same way to anyone that said "just get used to the fixed bug."

But that's a different situation entirely. Bullet jumping is part of the core game play as it was originally intended for.

Whereas Ivara's situation was a bug and was never intended. It was not a part of play style and never was meant to be. People just got used to exploiting the bug and now complain when they fix it. 

 

You can't compare the two. A good example would be saying: oh the original bugs in the jv raid to speed it up are part of the playstyle, why did you remove them DE? 

Or the very best example is melee 1.0 with coptering. It was technically a bug and it was around for years and people got so used to it that it became the playstyle to use in game. But it was never intended and when it was fixed, people complained. When it switched over I was a bit sad but I never actually complained and quickly got used to the new melee system because it was refreshing and new. 

Edited by Arniox
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I always use the "bug" for parkour and it was nice.

However, the problem with ivara is a really slow movement even with the augment. There are 2 ways workaround with this thing.

1. decrease the movement cripple effect to prowl (original not augment)

2. increase the movement buff when use the augment

 

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2 hours ago, megamino said:

I always use the "bug" for parkour and it was nice.

However, the problem with ivara is a really slow movement even with the augment. There are 2 ways workaround with this thing.

1. decrease the movement cripple effect to prowl (original not augment)

2. increase the movement buff when use the augment

You left out option 3.  

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And before you say something like I don't know what I'm talking about...…..

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8 hours ago, Arniox said:

DE? 

Or the very best example is melee 1.0 with coptering. It was technically a bug and it was around for years and people got so used to it that it became the playstyle to use in game. But it was never intended and when it was fixed, people complained. When it switched over I was a bit sad but I never actually complained and quickly got used to the new melee system because it was refreshing and new. 

Coptering is a bad example because bullet jumping and Parkour 2.0 is the direct result of people finding the bug, exploitng the S#&$ out of it, having fun, enjoyable game and DE going "ok since you like to go fast we can make a better way to do it". 

 

Ivara's "bug" has been around for two years. It might as well has been a feature at this point, because removing it is not "fixing" Ivara, it's just nerfing her, since every Ivara player learned to play her with prowl bullet jumping as a mobility tool.

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I wholeheartedly disagree with the decision to make Ivara completely unable to bullet jump while using her Prowl ability. Every now and then, I need a vertical boost to get to my destination while invisible. While it's not impossible to find a work-around in most cases, it's immensely irritating. It wasn't overpowered or game breaking in any aspect, and it's not like we could even use the directional keys while bullet jumping without breaking stealth. It was simply a substantial quality of life feature that made a great addition to her kit. I hope DE will reconsider this change.

Let our frog jump again!

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